Does fibre cure BT's constipation?

Like so many others, I've been wittering for ages about speed on btinternet, but we've never felt able to face the hassle of changing e-mail addresses etc. We're now informed that our contract doesn't expire until 07/2011 anyway and, despite BT's shortcomings, if we want to duck out before then it will cost (thanks, guys).

Although BT trumpets that ADSL gives up to 20mb/s, the service we actually receive varies between 1.3mb/s and 3.2mb/s. After many contacts and much faffing, BT always fall back on our distance from the exchange. TB's slowspot map confirms that the whole of our locality is poorly served.

But latest info is that long delayed FTTC will be available here, at a cost, from 31/03/2011, and BT website refers to Infinity speeds of ''up to 40mb/s".

In view of BT's previous BS in adverts, I'd be interested to read what performance you folks who have transferred to fibre actually receive in the way of speed etc.

Thanks!

This will again vary on a distance, but this time it will be the distance from your cabinet.

What does the bt checker estimate your infinity speed to be?

In reply to a post by spranglebolt:

We're now informed that our contract doesn't expire until 07/2011 anyway and, despite BT's shortcomings, if we want to duck out before then it will cost (thanks, guys).

You chose to sign up for that package. BT are always up front about the length of their contracts and it's not usually difficult to work out that there's a penalty clause.

Although BT trumpets that ADSL gives up to 20mb/s, the service we actually receive varies between 1.3mb/s and 3.2mb/s. After many contacts and much faffing, BT always fall back on our distance from the exchange. TB's slowspot map confirms that the whole of our locality is poorly served.

Yes, that's what 'up to' means in this context. That's been established ever since ADSL Max became available nearly a decade ago.

But latest info is that long delayed FTTC will be available here, at a cost, from 31/03/2011, and BT website refers to Infinity speeds of ''up to 40mb/s".

Yup. Same deal. By moving the equipment closer you should get faster connection speeds but the actual speed it depends where your nearest cabinet is.

However connection speed is only part of the problem. That only indicates how fast data flows between you and the cabinet/exchange. There can be more problems after the exchange especially with products based on BT's wholesale system (as BT Infinity is).

Upgrading to FTTC might mean you move from a Ford Escort to a Ferrari but if you're doing all your travelling in rush hour on crowded roads you won't hit your stop speed very often. In theory your ISP (BT in this case) can just order more capacity. In practice for a variety of reasons that costs a lot of money. The nature of the UK Internet market is such that most people want to pay as little as possible. That means ISPs have the choice of running at a loss or running a service that slows when everyone piles on. My concern is that BT are pricing Infinity very low for what it claims to be. Either it's going to turn out to be God awful or else there will be a big price hike once they've got people hooked.

I'm with an ISP that chooses to ensure it always has ample capacity. It also seems to ensure that they never make a profit. Just not enough people willing to pay enough for a decent service.

Maybe BT have the right idea. Get people to realise how useful a fast connection is then make them pay a proper price for it. Unfortunately I think Ofcom will have something to say about that

Edited by Andrue (Mon 14-Feb-11 13:19:34)

Daniel,
Thank you for your response. Sadly, entering BT speedcheck estimate through their Infiinity area doesn't yet give any speed indication. It just reverts to the Total figure of 2.5mb/s - rarely achieved..Indeed it says that Infinity is not currently due to be rolled out in the area. However elsewhere in BT's website the 31/03/2011 date is quoted.

Rather a plonky response I fear, Andrue.

When signing a contract one anticipates reasonably good faith on the part of a supplier. So if 'up to 20mb/s' is quoted and 90% of punters receive 18mb/s, or even 15mb/s, I would agree with you wholeheartedly. However I maintain that if you get less than 3mb/s (<15% of what is advertised), as do many, many customer - trawl the forum - then this is merely hiding behind words. It's a copout, bordering on misrepresentation.

But obviously we ain't going to agree.

I am, of course aware that there will still be cable from the cabinet and that there could still be a measure of contention in the immediate area.

there's a world of difference between a fixed speed 20M connection running at 3M and a variable rate connection that is capable of up to 20M (subject to the line length etc) doing the same.

We seem to have lost the ability to express this difference in words and hence people that are star struck by advertising inevitably feel let down.

The minimum committed rate from you to the exchange on Infinity is 20M or the line speed, whichever is lower. Below 15M isn't provided at the moment (may have changed) so yes you'll get a faster link to the exchange if you can get FTTC.

You can change your email address to one that never changes, at your own pace with no hassle. Then you can change ISPs without that worry.

See my ISP-independent web/email page. I need to update it as I believe these days you can host the "domain" email on google so only the domain to pay for, not mail hosting.

In reply to a post by spranglebolt:

I am, of course aware that there will still be cable from the cabinet and that there could still be a measure of contention in the immediate area.

Actually I'd expect the contention to be near the ISP in the link that connects them to BT's network but local contention is also a possibility.

As for connection speed:It's all been said before. The behaviour of xDSL over distance is well documented and well known. Your idea of a guarantee would just have killed of xDSL - or limited it to a select few within close proximity to the exchange. That's the way it used to be back when we had fixed speeds. ADSL max allowed far more people to be connected because it worked on a 'plug it in and see what you get' strategy. Unfortunately there's proved to be no straightforward way to describe that in adverts.

The moral is:Don't blindly believe adverts. At least by asking the question here you've had the sense to ask the questions that the adverts failed to answer

In reply to a post by spranglebolt:

Daniel,
Thank you for your response. Sadly, entering BT speedcheck estimate through their Infiinity area doesn't yet give any speed indication. It just reverts to the Total figure of 2.5mb/s - rarely achieved..Indeed it says that Infinity is not currently due to be rolled out in the area. However elsewhere in BT's website the 31/03/2011 date is quoted.

That may mean your cabinet is not going to be upgraded. Unfortunately just because your exchange gets upgraded doesn't mean that you will. If you live in a satellite village on the outskirts you may well be ignored. It comes down to how many connections a cabinet handles. A cabinet in the middle of a housing estate can generate the revenue to justify the investment. A cabinet in the middle of a village often can't.

From memory I'm about 350m from the cabinet and get around 38Mb downstream and 8Mb upstream. Hope that helps.

PS Assuming that an estimate of the speed expected on the line in question was offered before purchase, it really shouldn't be a problem. This ought to deal with any misunderstandings about "up to 20Mb" or indeed "up do 24Mb" as offered by some, as it gives a more personalised estimate for the line.

PPS Its always worth checking the internal wiring too, as interference etc can reduce line speed considerably.

I have one house in te wilds of Scotland with an up to 8Mb service and I get just under 8Mbps. A couple of friends have up to 20Mb service and they get around 18 or 19Mb - so it is possible and a lot of people get hiogh speeds but BT cannot change the laws of physics or economics.

As for FTTC at my other house outside London - I get 39Mbps and that is capped. The line will support 48Mb down and 17Mb up.

I had a sim provide of a new BT phone line and BT Infinity last week (8th Feb). My line length is exactly 547m to the fibre cab (BT engineer who installed line and Infinity informed me of the line length).

I have a profile of 38717 kbps down and 10000 kbps up. All tests and actual use have been close to those profiles - normally getting about 37+ mbit down and 8+ mbit up regardless of the time of day (speedtests to show this via BT Speedtester as I like to know how my new line is doing).

Speedtest results from 'My Broadband Speed' which I have found to pretty accurate:

This evening:
http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/results/77340571.png
http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/results/77299241.png
http://www.mybroadbandspeed.co.uk/results/77286311.png

Hope this helps. You might also want to ask in the BTCare Communbity Forums as there are plenty of threads (both good and bad) relating to BT Infinity there

In reply to a post by yarwell:

Below 15M isn't provided at the moment (may have changed)

No change there Phil.

My sincere thanks to all for your thoughts on this.
Unfortunately SamKnows information is that we are 3.118KM from our Windsor (01753 8) exchange , rather further than most of you.
TB's slowspot maps are interesting, showing blue spots over a very large area round here. Intriguingly that includes Windsor Castle, so maybe HM has problems too (or perhaps not).
Most prognostications suggest 31/03 for activation of FTTC although that seems to depend where within BT you get your info.
Certainly the BT website confirms that work on the exchange itself has been completed, and those little green cabinets have sprung up all over our immediate locality. Not absolutely sure which one is ours but let's hope ...

BT Wholesale availability checker.

It may or may not give a date, but it should give you a (low) speed estimate for FTTC.

In reply to a post by Andrue:

In reply to a post by spranglebolt:

I am, of course aware that there will still be cable from the cabinet and that there could still be a measure of contention in the immediate area.

Actually I'd expect the contention to be near the ISP in the link that connects them to BT's network but local contention is also a possibility.

As for connection speed:It's all been said before. The behaviour of xDSL over distance is well documented and well known. Your idea of a guarantee would just have killed of xDSL - or limited it to a select few within close proximity to the exchange. That's the way it used to be back when we had fixed speeds. ADSL max allowed far more people to be connected because it worked on a 'plug it in and see what you get' strategy. Unfortunately there's proved to be no straightforward way to describe that in adverts.

The moral is:Don't blindly believe adverts. At least by asking the question here you've had the sense to ask the questions that the adverts failed to answer

ignition has quoted BT still only budgeting for 2 figure kbit use per customer, if that is true it is shockingly low so performance during peak when growth is done might not be pretty. Looking at ho wlow infinity pricing is at retail level theen those figures make sense.

ignition has quoted BT still only budgeting for 2 figure kbit use per customer

there's a similar figure (same ?) in the OFCOM thing about Market 1 exchanges - average Wholesale just under 50 kbits/s demand and capacity is about double that on exchange backhaul to give 90% of time >2M speeds.

Talk Talk LLU is same. Not an issue if it matches the average use, shirley ?

They also asked LLU operators but didn't publish figures. I'll FOI them.

What you have not done is consider whether the wiring in your home might be knocking a meg off your speeds.

Example, I am 3.5km of cable from the exchange, but have faster test results on our map than those living 100-200m from the exchange.

This is why there are numerous guides to doing things like getting your ADSL modem stats http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php and sites that will estimate what you should be able to get http://www.farina1.com/adsl and if there is a big disjoint in the numbers then 20 minutes of fiddling can get the two sets of figures closer.

On the cabinets - they need mains power, linking to the old green cabinets, the active hardware installed, then it all commissionign. The dates are not set in stone, like any project outside things like weather can make a big difference to timelines

Roberto- many thanks for your post.
In a perverse sort of way I wish I hadn't followed it, because the site you mentioned gives yet another target date, i.e. September, but I guess that must be regarded as definitive. Curiouser and curiouser!

Thank you, Mr Saffron.

Perhaps I should have mentioned that the setup here has actually been checked over as OK, not only by a bloke far more knowledgeable than me, but by one of the visiting BT folk. This friendly guy's unofficial expertise only cost me two cups of coffee.

As I mentioned, I think it is significant that TB's map shows a heavy concentration of slowspots round the area, approx 2km radius, west of the Windsor exchange. One theory is that there's still a lot of old underground aluminium cable round about, which obviously wouldn't be good news even with fttc.

Engineers are frequently in evidence. There's a sort of contest locally - a bit like looking out for Eddie Stobart - when we contest to count the highest number of Openreach vans we can see (extra points for bum cleavage seen sticking out of a cabinet or a hole in the road).

I useually go through windsor on a regular basis have seen quite a few green cabs, one in old windsor where i saw all the ducting being put it etc for the new cab next to the old one.