Coming Back To BT ..... maybe

Just been cold called by BT for the umpteenth time about coming back to BT. And I just might (sick of Bulldog/Pipex/TalkTalk poor customer service). The lad from BT did a quick check on my postcode and was delighted to tell me that with the new BT home hub I would get 14Mb/s downstream. He says the checker shows between 9 and 10Mb/s, but with the new hub it will 'boost' it upto 14Mb/s. Does this sound feasible? I asked him if he could guarantee 14Mb/s - he said absolutely. I'm guessing he can't

When I was with BT before I got approx 6.5Mb/s.

I've used their speed checker on the BT site and it just tells me 'Up to 8Mb'

The 'deal' he's offered is an 18 month contract at £29.60 (£13 for three months), free hub, unlimited internet (I think) and free evening and weekend calls. I think he said line rental was included (need to double check).

I think this is reasonable as I'll be paying about the same as I currently pay Bulldog since they took off my £10 discount package 2 months ago. Do BT do any better deals than this on unlimited internet?

It won't go ahead until BT Broadband have spoken to me sometime in the next 13 days, so still time to back out.

The BT line checker is quite conservative, it says I can get 7 meg and in reality I get over 10 although if you post your router stats so we can see your line attenuation and make an estimate.

Also what you do need to check is that your exchange has 21CN (ADSL2+) equipment in it so you can possibly get over 8 meg/sec.

The BT Unlimited package has a FUP of 300 Gigabytes a month and they do traffic shape p2p connections (which I don't use so I don't really notice it)

The price is their current offer, although I wouldn't sign up with somebody just phoning me I would phone BT up and so you know who you are phoning.

Also is your line rental still with BT? If so then all you need is a MAC code from your current ISP to move. If not then you would need to get a new BT line then get broadband ordered when it goes live.

In reply to a post by mikeycrawford:

but with the new hub it will 'boost' it upto 14Mb/s. Does this sound feasible?

Not really! All the HH or any other ADSL2+ router will do is give you the speed your line will bear as opposed to the pessimistic estimates the checkers come up with.

However, your current router stats will tell us the true capability of your line.

Thanks for the replies,

My line moved across to bulldog/C&W years ago when they first had an LLU presence in Shrewsbury. I pay them the line rental, not BT. I'm guessing BT knows this from when I left them.

The guy from BT says that they now get any MAC codes, the customer no longer has to deal with the current provider (which is a relief as I have spent hours on the phone to India in the past getting the runaround)

Samknows reports my exchange as having

BT Wholesale ADSL
BT Wholesale ADSL Max
BT Wholesale WBC (21CN)
BT Wholesale SDSL
AOL LLU
Bulldog LLU
TalkTalk (CPW) LLU
Sky Broadband / Easynet LLU
Orange LLU (Formerly Wanadoo)

and goes on to say

BT 21st Century Network (21CN) rollout
You are connected to the Shrewsbury telephone exchange.

Wholesale Broadband Connect is available in your area
There is currently no 21CN migration date for your PSTN service

line stats of my router
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4032 kbps 576 kbps
Line Attenuation 39 db 11 db
Noise Margin 12 db 21 db

The downstream speed is a bit misleading. I asked bulldog to cap the speed to see if reliability increased. Now I can't get them to remove it.

Cheers

I'm a light user with no gaming etc so BT's ordinary package does me very well, speeds around 4.5mb average with best ever 5.9mb. Service has been very good, will post about BT after my first six months are up.

Main reason for this is to say you can save about 25% line rental if you pay a year up front.

In my opinion 39dB attenuation is extremely unlikely to give over 12Mbps whatever the router.

How much download do you need? There are loads of ISPs to choose from, including good LLU.

The guy from BT says that they now get any MAC codes, the customer no longer has to deal with the current provider

Do What !!!!!! absolute tosh tbh, in reality as your line is full LLU no MAC is required as they will basically as Openreach to install a newline for you on a sim provide i.e. line and bb at same time.

Thats what he told me. Also asked if I wanted to keep my current number, so presumably they have to speak to Bulldog to arrange that side of things. Will quiz the broadband team when they call me.

The ONLY BT broadband package that is Unlimited, is the Option 3 package that has been renamed 'Unlimited Broadband'. It is £28 per month PLUS line rental.
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProduc...
Check out how many more features you get with Post Office broadband for £26 and NO minimum line rental tie-in, no extra charges for not taking Direct Debit or paying at the local Post Office. You will also see on this site that the Post Office beat BT for customer satisfaction.
http://www2.postoffice.co.uk/broadband-phone/home-ph...
Like any ISP, there are those that will have something bad to say about the Post Office, but I have been with both, but I now have exactly the same broadband, far more free features for half the price, for what is after all re-badged BT

Edited by deleted (Thu 24-Feb-11 23:36:18)

Keeping your original number wont be an issue

In reply to a post by mikeycrawford:

line stats of my router
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4032 kbps 576 kbps
Line Attenuation 39 db 11 db
Noise Margin 12 db 21 db

Hmm...with that noise margin you might get 5mbit

"boosted to 14mbit" is complete nonsense.

39dB attenuation is not too bad, and subject to keeping the line noise down, should give 6MB speed, which is around what the OP was previously getting with BT, but it seems they have added total lies and desperation to their sales pitch.
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php

Edited by deleted (Fri 25-Feb-11 08:57:58)

The problem I will have with the resellers is that my line is with an LLU supplier (Bulldog). Whenever I go on an ISP site I get "We cannot confirm availability for this number", so before I can consider ISPs like the Post Office I need to have a BT line, Can the post office arrange this without me having a contract with BT to install (or reclaim) the line.

The sales call from BT sounded ideal in so much as they would take care of it all for me - bringing me 'back to BT' - which I'm now beginning to doubt having seen the replies so far. I suppose guaranteeing 14Mb should be a deal breaker in itself .... additional line rental most definitely would. It would then be closer to £40, when I was paying £20 for unlimited internet and line rental just 2 months ago before I got P'd off by them.

The £10 BT line rental IF you pay a years line rental up front, is just one of many recent BT money grabs. The cash would be better in your bank. Post Office line rental is ONLY £10. 21p per month with NO minimum contract, no up front payment and no penalty for which ever way you pay your bills. Off peak is still 6.00 pm - 6.00am unlike BT.

The Post Office will install and activate a new line for £112 (sometimes free), http://www2.postoffice.co.uk/broadband-phone/home-ph... which as far as I know, is once again cheaper than BT - Not bad for re-badged BT.
Edit:- Looks like there is a BT offer to waive the new line charge if you take the top priced phone & Broadband package. http://www.homephonechoices.co.uk/article.asp?id=bt-... So by the time you pay for Mobile and non-geographical calls not included in the package, you are looking at around £50 per month, over £20 per month more than the Post Office, where 0845, 0870, Off peak, weekend mobile & International calls are free.
As the old saying goes, there is no such thing as a free lunch, and it looks like it also applies to line connection and exaggerating speeds.

Edited by deleted (Fri 25-Feb-11 11:28:27)

Since you are on Bulldog, that is the Cable and wireless network, is it not possible to change from Bulldog/Talk Talk or who ever they are now onto a reseller for Cable and wireless like ADSL24, Vivacitie?

Are you still fully unbundled?

I would not go back to BT, you may get a high sync speed, but Bt will make sure you will not use it due to their traffic management.

I am on the old bulldog network with ADSL24, just under £20 a month and I get true unlimited and no traffic management. i know I don't get great speed, just about 4Megabits, but that is because of the length of my line. but at least I do get what I am suppose to get and not what Bt thinks i should get

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I would not go back to BT, you may get a high sync speed, but Bt will make sure you will not use it due to their traffic management.

Nonsense.

In reply to a post by orly:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I would not go back to BT, you may get a high sync speed, but Bt will make sure you will not use it due to their traffic management.

Nonsense.

So the fact that I could not access BBC Iplayer or You Tube most of the time because of traffic management is not Bt fault then?

Before you tell me that Bt don't traffic manage anything apart from P2P, then why is it that I can now use Iplayer and you tube on the ISp I am using now?

I know I got a slightly higher sync speed, something else that Bt stupid system could not give me, but I never got anywhere near the sync speed from speed tests i did with Bt.


Bt is just rubbish, over priced and naff service, simple as that, never been any different and they will never change
]

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by orly:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I would not go back to BT, you may get a high sync speed, but Bt will make sure you will not use it due to their traffic management.

Nonsense.

So the fact that I could not access BBC Iplayer or You Tube most of the time because of traffic management is not Bt fault then?

Before you tell me that Bt don't traffic manage anything apart from P2P, then why is it that I can now use Iplayer and you tube on the ISp I am using now?

I know I got a slightly higher sync speed, something else that Bt stupid system could not give me, but I never got anywhere near the sync speed from speed tests i did with Bt.


Bt is just rubbish, over priced and naff service, simple as that, never been any different and they will never change
]

If you couldn't access youtube or iplayer, which are just websites, then you're doing something wrong.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by orly:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I would not go back to BT, you may get a high sync speed, but Bt will make sure you will not use it due to their traffic management.

Nonsense.

So the fact that I could not access BBC Iplayer or You Tube most of the time because of traffic management is not Bt fault then?

Before you tell me that Bt don't traffic manage anything apart from P2P, then why is it that I can now use Iplayer and you tube on the ISp I am using now?

I know I got a slightly higher sync speed, something else that Bt stupid system could not give me, but I never got anywhere near the sync speed from speed tests i did with Bt.


Bt is just rubbish, over priced and naff service, simple as that, never been any different and they will never change
]

can only assume your connection stats were/are poor if you could not play Iplayer or youtube. Have no issues here with those two in particular. But don`t get me started on the Homehub !! Its just pure rank.

In reply to a post by orly:

If you couldn't access youtube or iplayer, which are just websites, then you're doing something wrong.

Wrong word again, I could access them, but could not use the services most of the time

In reply to a post by MrGrumpy:

can only assume your connection stats were/are poor if you could not play Iplayer or youtube. Have no issues here with those two in particular. But don`t get me started on the Homehub !! Its just pure rank.

It was not too bad until BT stuck me on their so called 21CN system, then everything went to pot.
Disconnections, which was eventually solved, but then I lost a megabit on my sync more or less and then BT started to knock my speed down by other ways as well.

Sometimes I was lucky to get 2megabits, IO once done a few speed tests that gave me under a megabit and that was using BT own speed test as well. the few people I know that got worse is on Talk Talk.

I just had enough and when I was pointed to Cable and wireless LLU I jumped, but it did take a while. It was on one of the forums here that some people kept telling me get away from Bt, but I was a bit worried about LLU.

Eventually I thought what the hell, It was a monthly contract anyway, so if it all goes belly up I can move elsewhere. The best thing I have done for years broadband wise.


The homehub was ok, the Bt internet talk thing was rubbish mind you.

Edited by zyborg47 (Fri 04-Mar-11 08:48:06)

the traffic management sytem is implemented to stop p2p and torrents only at peek periods slightl slows down web surfing as well however time critical usage is not affected such as gaming voip or streaming.

Bt broadband option 3 for a long time. Yes when they first brought the management tools in there were some teething issues whilst it decided what exactly was "legit" and what wasnt but i can watch youtube i player skyplayer all during peek periods absolutley no problem and my connection is only a 3 meg connection.

With BT here, have a profile of 5.5Mb dslmax. It sits between 4.3Mb and 5.3Mb. Never have a problem with, YouTube, BBC iplayer, Itv player or 4 Od. They will restrict P2P from 18.00 -00.00 Mon �Fri and 09.00 Sat until Sun 00.00.

By new Hub I assume the Hub 3, does propose better wireless. Your speed however will be determined by the distance from the exchange, the 14Mb you have been quoted on copper line attenuation as eluded too by the other posts is nonsense.

Something in your setup then.

Seems to be fine for everyone else on this thread.

Edited by orly (Sat 05-Mar-11 05:14:46)

In reply to a post by geordiekris:

the traffic management sytem is implemented to stop p2p and torrents only at peek periods slightl slows down web surfing as well however time critical usage is not affected such as gaming voip or streaming.

Bt broadband option 3 for a long time. Yes when they first brought the management tools in there were some teething issues whilst it decided what exactly was "legit" and what wasnt but i can watch youtube i player skyplayer all during peek periods absolutley no problem and my connection is only a 3 meg connection.

It was not just P2P that was affected and not just between those times either. I had a lot of problems with different sites taking ages to show, some not showing at all and when I tried to access video it was pot luck if it played or not.

Trying to access Iplayer on the wii in the evening was almost impossible. sync speed was okish, but the actual speed was never anywhere near it.


the other thing that annoyed me is when I would not commit to another contract they kept bugging me, almost every other week I got a phone call from who ever it is acting on their behalf trying to get me to recontract, offered me a fiver off option 3, which I refused then they offered me BT Vision. They don't like being told no.


I moved to the ISp I am with now, my sync speed went up, reliability went up and I get a better actual speed as well, more in line with the sync speed I get. I pay less than what Bt wanted me to pay, even if they took the fiver off. I got no restrictions what so ever, no traffic management and no profiling system. I can turn the Wii on and watch BBc Iplayer when ever I want to, not when my ISp thinks I should

I won't go back to BT, if anything happened to the ISP I am with or I need to save money I would rather go to Sky.

In reply to a post by orly:

Something in your setup then.

Seems to be fine for everyone else on this thread.

If that is so then how is it working fine now with a different ISP? I changed nothing apart from the router and if I went back to my old speedtouch router I could get a even faster speed as the speedtouch knocks the SNR down more than this netgear.

I may get in touch with ADSL24 and see if they can knock the SNR down a little bit.


My router is connected to a ADSLnation filter faceplate and the only cable between the router/modem and the filter is what came with the router, no extensions.

maybe your old router was duff?

In reply to a post by orly:

maybe your old router was duff?

Tried my old speedtouch, done the same thing, well it was a bit better, but not by much. Nothing wrong or was nothing wrong with the speedtouch as I have been using it on the service I got now, only the last month or so that it have had problems which is why I got a new router.