Considering BT - a few questions

My exchange is due to be FTTC-enabled towards the end of this year and I am looking at options. I have been with my present ISP for over 5 years and whilst they offer FTTC, a £28 per month package would only give me 30GB download during peak times of 9am to midnight (120GB total). First year FTTC costs would also be £130+ higher. Traffic shaping is not an issue on my ADSL2+ service and my ISP has UK support. I am not into online gaming, I do not tweak SNRs and I am not into torrents. Two questions:

a. Am I wrong to consider a move to BT Infinity?

b. Given that current offers expire at the end of this month, should I transfer to BT ADSL2+ now or sit back and wait for my cabinet to be enabled?

My current ADSL2+ connection rate is 17.5Mbps. As it has taken the 'system' 5 months to get my speed up from 10 to 17.5Mbps, then I would not wish to do anything to put this at risk.

Grateful for any thoughts.

I think it depends on who your present ISP is!

I, personally, would not move to BT under any circumstances - BT Infinity is not the only FTTC product on offer although I believe they are all, at present, based on the same BT Wholesale product the BT Retail sell as "BT Infinity".

Since your CAB is not yet enabled the date can move and a 17.5Mbps connection is well above average.

What you "should" have done is change to BE a long time ago (if available in your area) as they don't have a "system" regulating the speed.

I would sit tight and wait. I am doing that (21Mb/s down) to see what is on offer when my CAB gets enabled (installed but not enabled). and waiting for the big players to start selling FTTC products - it will eventually happen!

The FTTC product he describes for his current ISP is IDNet Home Plus Fibre.

I'm on Home Starter Fibre and very pleased.

It depends on what you expect your usage to be.

Most people I imagine under-estimate this. When you get the faster speeds there is a tendency to use it more. If you have other people or kids using it the usage can increase further.

As for a) Nothing wrong. Been using it for over a year myself and it's fine for everything.
b) Hard to say. If you're on IDNet then they'll not be able to match BT's pricing any time soon by the looks of it. I'd hold fire until FTTC is enabled and then survey the options then.

Coming from O2 "unlimited" LLU with no throttling or traffic management, I narrowed my choice down to Infinity or IDNet Home Fibre Starter, which is their entry-level.

It has sufficient allowance for me not to have to worry, the price , (especially as I paid for 12 months up front so got a month free), is similar to BT. It's a 12-month term, static IP included which being honest only benefits me by guaranteeing tbb BQM, and the CS I have experienced so far is first class.

If I had needed to go to the next IDNet package up, I would probably have chosen BT on cost grounds. I would have been worried about the CS if needed, and unhappy about the 18-month term.

Don't think the price is anywhere near BT if we're being honest.

Do they supply a router? If not, how much was it?
£48 for activation too.

I am being absolutely honest!

I gave my reasons for my choice, that's all, and also pointed out that at a higher expected usage I would probably have chosen differently.

My router is fine. Cost £23.99. My small extra first year cost was the price I was prepared to pay for the difference I perceive between the two companies, having had a terrible experience with BT Broadband in the past - mainly down to the underhand , (that's the only possible word for it), way upgrades to the awful Yahoo systems and suchlike were introduced. Perhaps that doesn't happen any more, but I do see occasional references to Yahoo. And a friend had to get out from Yahoo mail a couple of years ago as it just totally jammed up on him.

We are these days seeing a few Infinity slowdowns in the evenings. Not on IDNet that I know of, though I had a problem a couple of days ago. The Olympics should be fun. I think it was the Commonwealth games that screwed BT and even Zen, whilst my Newnet connection was quite happy.

Second year cost is very close.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I am being absolutely honest!

I gave my reasons for my choice, that's all, and also pointed out that at a higher expected usage I would probably have chosen differently.

My router is fine. Cost £23.99. My small extra first year cost was the price I was prepared to pay for the difference I perceive between the two companies, having had a terrible experience with BT Broadband in the past - mainly down to the underhand , (that's the only possible word for it), way upgrades to the awful Yahoo systems and suchlike were introduced. Perhaps that doesn't happen any more, but I do see occasional references to Yahoo. And a friend had to get out from Yahoo mail a couple of years ago as it just totally jammed up on him.

We are these days seeing a few Infinity slowdowns in the evenings. Not on IDNet that I know of, though I had a problem a couple of days ago. The Olympics should be fun. I think it was the Commonwealth games that screwed BT and even Zen, whilst my Newnet connection was quite happy.

Second year cost is very close.

I didn't mean to light any fires when I posted this question. By moving to BT I could save £130 in year 1 but I agree that in year 2 the cost difference is marginal. What isn't marginal in both years is the difference between 30GB usage and unlimited. Currently, I am on a 40GB ADSL2+ package and it would be great if IDNet offered something similar on FTTC. Unfortunately, their home packages jump from 30GB to 50GB (Peak) at an increased annual cost of £79. Consequently, the pendulum swings firmly back in BT's favour

As the majority of users of forums such as this are people asking questions or are people with problems, then I assume that the majority of BT customers are satisfied with their package, price and service.

I have been on BT Infinity for 3 months now. Very happy with the service so far. No disconnections so far. Don�t use Torrents or other P2P so no issues with throttling.

We have multiple devices connected, PC. Laptop, BT Vision, Iphone etc, all running at the same time with no interruptions and everyone happy.
If I was in your position, it would all depended on what the estimated speeds of FTTC are likely to be and if you could really do without extra bandwidth until a new contract with current company expires!

Does IDNet automatically roll you into a new contract when your current one expires?

In reply to a post by lexden16:

I didn't mean to light any fires when I posted this question.

I don't think you did. Just a slightly unfortunate choice of words by orly that at the time made me prickle, as though I had been arguing against BT rather than impartially.

The rest of your reasoning closely follows mine. It's only at the starter level IDNet is really worth considering for thee and me I think.

As the majority of users of forums such as this are people asking questions or are people with problems, then I assume that the majority of BT customers are satisfied with their package, price and service.

Two things about that. First, it isn't a valid statement because the vast majority haven't a clue about their broadband, in the same way as they haven't a clue about how a car works.

But second, what is really noticeable is the number who have switched to BT for FTTC for the reasons you will, and been pleasantly surprised. The complaints are almost non-existent. In fact off-hand I can't recall a serious one.

I think a lot of it could be down to high current capacity per customer - they and/or Openreach are on record as being disappointed at the number of sign-ups, and technically speaking the hugely better DLM on FTTC. Though the new one on WBC looks to be far better than the old one as well.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 12-Aug-11 13:02:01)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

the vast majority haven't a clue about their broadband, in the same way as they haven't a clue about how a car works.

Maybe, but the latter do at least know when their car doesn't work!

In reply to a post by nelix01:

I have been on BT Infinity for 3 months now. Very happy with the service so far. No disconnections so far. Don�t use Torrents or other P2P so no issues with throttling.

We have multiple devices connected, PC. Laptop, BT Vision, Iphone etc, all running at the same time with no interruptions and everyone happy.
If I was in your position, it would all depended on what the estimated speeds of FTTC are likely to be and if you could really do without extra bandwidth until a new contract with current company expires!

Does IDNet automatically roll you into a new contract when your current one expires?

Thank you: I have two Macs, a PS3, an IPad, a Blackberry, two VOIP phones and a Kindle connected from time to time. I can usually stay comfortably within the 40GB peak limit. Having a 9am peak start on IDNet helps provided I can remember to start the download when I come down to make the OH her morning cup of tea. Looking to the future with Apple looking to update its products online, I can well see my usage going up. Downloading Lion OSX last month used up 5GB.

IDNet is a rolling 1 month contract on ADSL, and 12 months contract on change to FTTC which then reverts back to a month. FTTC should be enabled in Dec and the checker is showing estimated FTTC speeds of 36.9 Down and 8.2 Up.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by lexden16:

I didn't mean to light any fires when I posted this question.

I don't think you did. Just a slightly unfortunate choice of words by orly that at the time made me prickle, as though I had been arguing against BT rather than impartially.

The rest of your reasoning closely follows mine. It's only at the starter level IDNet is really worth considering for thee and me I think.

As the majority of users of forums such as this are people asking questions or are people with problems, then I assume that the majority of BT customers are satisfied with their package, price and service.

Two things about that. First, it isn't a valid statement because the vast majority haven't a clue about their broadband, in the same way as they haven't a clue about how a car works.

But second, what is really noticeable is the number who have switched to BT for FTTC for the reasons you will, and been pleasantly surprised. The complaints are almost non-existent. In fact off-hand I can't recall a serious one.

I think a lot of it could be down to high current capacity per customer - they and/or Openreach are on record as being disappointed at the number of sign-ups, and technically speaking the hugely better DLM on FTTC. Though the new one on WBC looks to be far better than the old one as well.

The various exchanges and inputs on this topic have been helpful in that given the uncertainty about actual FTTC enablement dates, I will sit on my hands until closer to the time. The only reason that I raised this now is because current BT deals come to an end on the 31st of this month, No doubt, like buses, there will be another one along soon.

I also note that one or two of the other independent ISPs are revising their FTTC packages - presumably in light of customer feedback. I will raise this with IDNet and see what their response is.

Just to add my support for BT.

Switched from O2 LLU 3.5/1 to Infinity Option 2 34/8. Speed is almost always full, HD streaming is perfect, connection is rock solid apart from
* in first few weeks it was clear HH2 was useless. They replaces for HH3
* Wed/Thu this week I had outages - first since taking infinity. A collegue had similar so looked like an ISP glitch. VDSL certainly was fine. A complaint is in progress
* On ADSL we were using 120-160 GB/month. With faster speeds and more streaming including HD we're using 180-350 GB/month
* P2P is restricted, especially peak but I don't use much so it doesn't bother me.

But overall delighted - pretty much "just works". I'd been reluctant before

For me there was little point in getting a service with lower limits as one of my reasons for the switch was to allow seamless, multiple concurrent HD video streams

With a rolling 1 month contact and decent speeds now, I would sit tight until FTTC is enabled in the area then see what is on offer.

At the moment, it's hard to beat BT on price and unlimitied usage limits (option2) but who's to say what will be on offer in a few months.

I can only comment on my own experience of being 'upgraded' to BT ADSL2+ - truly awful!
Before upgrade I had a pretty well rock solid

After, I got

for a month or so. Now I get

most days, tho' resetting the HomeHub will give me

until the line goes over again.
A really frustrating experience all round.

I just don't see the price being similar up front.

If you pay for the whole year at once, pay for the activation and buy their recommended router it comes to £399 and you get a total of 60GB of download in the whole month split up between strange peak and off peak periods.

For BT it'll be £307 over the same period, for an "unlimited" connection. In other words IDnet is about 30% more. Not an insignificant amount.

Iplayer HD really gets a hammering here too.

What are you line statistics like?

Thanks for your reply.
BT support asked me to remove the faceplate on the phone socket (this afternoon), since when the connection has broken at least once but is reasonably quick. The HomeHub status page gives this:

ADSL line status

Connection information

Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 1:17:41
Downstream 1,947 Kbps
Upstream 687 Kbps

ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.3
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 3.5 dB / 6.2 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 63.0 dB / 39.7 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 0.0 dBm / 12.8 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 11
Loss of Signal (Local) 1
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 0 / 4294967262
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 669 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 0
Error Seconds (Local) 3

I should point out that I'm 4 1/2 miles from the exchange and 2 1/2 miles from the roadside cabinet so I don't expect to be streaming HD video! I didn't expect ADSL2+ to do anything at all so I was pleasantly surprised when my speed doubled - it's the complete unreliability of it which is getting to me.

Left Be for BT Infinity only issue was the Homehub and wireless issues, been nearly a year and hand on heart its been great. Apparently there is some speed upgades coming as well! Our connection is well used, my usage has increased alot if I'm honest but all seems very fast and more importantly gaming is good, no issues with my WoW addiction and Xbox live runs great.

In reply to a post by andygegg:

I didn't expect ADSL2+ to do anything at all so I was pleasantly surprised when my speed doubled

That's cuz you are running under ADSL2 (w/out the +) = G.992.3.

AFAIK, BT are planning on trialling 80/20 FTTC sometime in the autumn, then rolling out in the new year to all existing FTTC customers.

In reply to a post by MrGrumpy:

Left Be for BT Infinity only issue was the Homehub and wireless issues, been nearly a year and hand on heart its been great. Apparently there is some speed upgades coming as well! Our connection is well used, my usage has increased alot if I'm honest but all seems very fast and more importantly gaming is good, no issues with my WoW addiction and Xbox live runs great.

Thank you - this again is very helpful; particularly your comment about increased usage with FTTC which is my major concern about staying with IDNet. I see from various forums that BT installs its own FTTC modem. I assume that there is no contractual obligation to use the HH3? I have a Fritz!Box that is also my DECT base station and I would not wish to cast this box to one side as it is a very solid piece of kit. It is also VDSL2 capable.

In reply to a post by greenglide:

Since your CAB is not yet enabled the date can move and a 17.5Mbps connection is well above average.

What you "should" have done is change to BE a long time ago (if available in your area) as they don't have a "system" regulating the speed.

I would sit tight and wait. I am doing that (21Mb/s down) to see what is on offer when my CAB gets enabled (installed but not enabled). and waiting for the big players to start selling FTTC products - it will eventually happen!

I was with BT, then Nildram, Aquiss and now IDNet (5 years plus). Sadly, BE is not available in my area. I should add that it took 5 months for my ADSL2+ connection to get from 8.5 to 17.5 ( 3 months for the first SNR drop from 15 to 12). I would not be leaving IDNet out of any sense of dissatisfaction - only because their FTTC package prices/sizes do not suit. On current usage, I could be downloading 50GB this month (mainly because of major upgrades to Apple products). I will manage this but I do not want to be up in the early hours monitoring downloads to save peak bandwidth.

In reply to a post by lexden16:

Thank you - this again is very helpful; particularly your comment about increased usage with FTTC which is my major concern about staying with IDNet. I see from various forums that BT installs its own FTTC modem. I assume that there is no contractual obligation to use the HH3? I have a Fritz!Box that is also my DECT base station and I would not wish to cast this box to one side as it is a very solid piece of kit. It is also VDSL2 capable.

The Modem is provided by Openreach, this is regardless of who you choose as your FTTC provider. BT retail provide the HH3 but you are not obliged to use it. I swapped back to my Apple Airport Extreme as soon as the engineers left. (there is no-one else around here on the 5GHz band )

A few people on here have used other VDSL combined modem/router units with some success.

You are supposed to use the OR modem apparently. People using VDSL2 routers have had mixed experiences.

A relevant thread.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You are supposed to use the OR modem apparently. People using VDSL2 routers have had mixed experiences.

A relevant thread.

Reading other forums, the problem with the Fritz!Box was setting the VLAN to 101 for FTTC. This problem has been addressed in the latest RC firmware update so there is no longer a need to edit the configuration file with a 3rd party editor. The Fritz! is expensive but it can now been bought online from France with free delivery for about £180.

My list of pros and cons re BT Infinity versus ISP-provided FTTC gets longer by the day thanks to some very helpful responses on this and other TBB threads. As I have said earlier, what I have concluded is that it is best to do nothing until FTTC availability is confirmed on my line.