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Standard User mbailey
(regular) Tue 18-Oct-11 11:32:33
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Infinity and traffic shapping


[link to this post]
 
I am currently with a very slow (1M) ADSL connection with plusnet, but finally my local cabinet is upgraded with FTTC. The BT wholesale checker shows 34.5M estimated speed!

So the question is what FTTC provider to move to.

I have been looking at plus net offering and they are very clear what traffic shapping they offer:
http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/do...

The question is does something similar exist for Infinity or are BT not as open as Plus net in terms of how the traffic shapping works?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 18-Oct-11 12:01:44
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: mbailey] [link to this post]
 
BT does not publish anything like the detail Plusnet publishes.

Though to date very few reports of management being apparent on the Infinity network, probably because it was built to take lots of customers, and has not filled up yet

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 18-Oct-11 12:08:42
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: mbailey] [link to this post]
 
The shaping is very light on infinity.

The only thing I've seen it used on (occasionally mind) is torrents. Often these run close to full speed too though.

---
> Comparison chart of FTTC ISPs
> Got FTTC? Complete the survey

BT Infinity 8th July 2010
(NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
23.5mbit down / 8mbit up


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 18-Oct-11 12:24:20
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: mbailey] [link to this post]
 
If you look in Orly's sig at the bottom of his reply, there is a link to his FTTC supplier comparison spreadsheet. Excellent! Though it doesn't cover traffic management.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User mbailey
(regular) Tue 18-Oct-11 13:22:46
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the replies.

Good to know the service is not traffic shapped yet, but of course how it looks in 18 months time with more people on board no one knows.

I had already seen the excellent spreadsheet on the various options. Very helpful.

At the moment my thinking is to go with BT Option1 and see how the bandwidth goes. If I see myself needing more then I can just upgrade to Option2. (I checked with BT and they said this was possible, even when inside the 18 month contract window.)
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 18-Oct-11 13:33:24
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: mbailey] [link to this post]
 
There are reports of P2P throttling, but possibly still faster than ADSLx, and probably depending on location.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User TheMarf
(learned) Tue 18-Oct-11 14:44:58
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
P2P is definitely throttled for me during peak times on my infinity connection.

I'm lucky to see 100kb/s with torrents/soulseek of an evening. Off peak it runs full speed.
Standard User Zadeks
(committed) Tue 18-Oct-11 14:49:07
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: mbailey] [link to this post]
 
All P2P is shaped during peak. (BitTorrent, Hamachi, Spotify, etc)
Standard User MHC
(legend) Tue 18-Oct-11 16:04:22
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: mbailey] [link to this post]
 
BT will definitely allow you to upgrade at any time (normally without penalty) - but you start a new contract term when you do ...





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 18-Oct-11 19:33:24
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: TheMarf] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TheMarf:
P2P is definitely throttled for me during peak times on my infinity connection.

I'm lucky to see 100kb/s with torrents/soulseek of an evening. Off peak it runs full speed.
Do you really mean 100kb/s = 100k bits, or 100kB/s = 100k Bytes = 800kb/s? It sounds like nitpicking to ask, as both are low, but possibly important to the OP.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User TheMarf
(learned) Wed 19-Oct-11 09:01:29
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
100 Kilobytes per second smile

I prefer to use kilobytes and megabytes for tx speeds as they represent real world values that you'd see in the OS.

Edited by TheMarf (Wed 19-Oct-11 11:35:52)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 19-Oct-11 12:00:06
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: TheMarf] [link to this post]
 
If you used kBps and MBps everyone would know what you meant smile. Small "b" is definitely "bits" not Bytes.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User MHC
(legend) Wed 19-Oct-11 12:22:17
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: TheMarf] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TheMarf:
100 Kilobytes per second smile

I prefer to use kilobytes and megabytes for tx speeds as they represent real world values that you'd see in the OS.


Rubbish ... data speeds in the real world have always been in bits unless you use a parallel interface which DSL services are not. Just becasue your OS tells you it has downloaded a file of a specific size (in Bytes) in a certain period does change it.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User TheMarf
(learned) Wed 19-Oct-11 12:40:53
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
In reply to a post by TheMarf:
100 Kilobytes per second smile

I prefer to use kilobytes and megabytes for tx speeds as they represent real world values that you'd see in the OS.


Rubbish ... data speeds in the real world have always been in bits unless you use a parallel interface which DSL services are not. Just becasue your OS tells you it has downloaded a file of a specific size (in Bytes) in a certain period does change it.


I guess it depends what you mean by real world smile

If I go to a website which has a file I'd like to download, it'll report the size to me in kilobytes or megabytes, not kilobits and megabits.

Ergo knowing how fast my connection is in megabytes per second or kilobytes per second tells me how long that file will take to download, without having to factor in conversion factors from bits to bytes.

My Infinity maxes at 1.8-1.9 megabytes per second. So I know that I can download 1gb in approximately 9 minutes, assuming a maxed connection wink

So, "Rubbish"? No, just a matter of interpretative pedantry. wink

Edited by TheMarf (Wed 19-Oct-11 12:54:59)

Standard User MHC
(legend) Wed 19-Oct-11 13:21:30
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: TheMarf] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TheMarf:
In reply to a post by MHC:
In reply to a post by TheMarf:
100 Kilobytes per second smile

I prefer to use kilobytes and megabytes for tx speeds as they represent real world values that you'd see in the OS.


Rubbish ... data speeds in the real world have always been in bits unless you use a parallel interface which DSL services are not. Just becasue your OS tells you it has downloaded a file of a specific size (in Bytes) in a certain period does change it.




I guess it depends what you mean by real world smile

If I go to a website which has a file I'd like to download, it'll report the size to me in kilobytes or megabytes, not kilobits and megabits.

Ergo knowing how fast my connection is in megabytes per second or kilobytes per second tells me how long that file will take to download, without having to factor in conversion factors from bits to bytes.

My Infinity maxes at 1.8-1.9 megabytes per second. So I know that I can download 1gb in approximately 9 minutes, assuming a maxed connection wink

So, "Rubbish"? No, just a matter of interpretative pedantry. wink



How big is a byte? As it is can vary in size , it can never be an accurate measure.


And is using the correct format of b for bit, B for Byte, m for milli and M for Mega pedantry ? No, it is ensuring that others know what you are talking about.





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User TheMarf
(learned) Wed 19-Oct-11 13:41:39
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
A kilobyte is a variable amount of data is it? What about a megabyte or a gigabyte? If so could you please tell my hard drive that its variable? I could use some more space smile

Either way, I've clarified what I meant by my mistaken useage of kb/s and why I prefer to use Kilobytes/megabytes per second to describe throughput.

So please MHC, accept my most sincere and heartfelt apologies for making the grave error of confusing bits and bytes, and giving you the sh-ts and shytes.

Regardless, I'm sure you'll continue with your short sharp snarky comments which is entirely your prerogative. Feel free to continue, I've made my point in reference to the question asked by Robertos and I hope that he now understands what I intended to say.

Adieu wink

Edited by TheMarf (Wed 19-Oct-11 13:54:00)

Standard User johnmiller
(newbie) Wed 19-Oct-11 13:49:50
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping *DELETED*


[re: mbailey] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by johnmiller
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 19-Oct-11 15:04:58
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: TheMarf] [link to this post]
 
Not all Bytes are 8 bit in size, now it is become the accepted norm, but anyone used to comms will know 9 bit Bytes (i.e. a stop bit included for every 8 bit character)

Generally I stick to Bytes if describing the size of a file, but if discussing the rate of something I talk in bits

On the harddrive example, are you sure the manufacturer is using kilo = 1000 or kilo = 1024 ?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User TheMarf
(learned) Wed 19-Oct-11 15:21:37
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Not all Bytes are 8 bit in size, now it is become the accepted norm, but anyone used to comms will know 9 bit Bytes (i.e. a stop bit included for every 8 bit character)


True enough, but when talking about file sizes in a consumer operating system its pretty safe, normal and accepted to assume 8bits is a byte.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Generally I stick to Bytes if describing the size of a file, but if discussing the rate of something I talk in bits


To me it seems like mixing apples and oranges, but I guess its just down to personal preference.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
On the harddrive example, are you sure the manufacturer is using kilo = 1000 or kilo = 1024 ?


I was being facetious tongue
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 19-Oct-11 16:18:24
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: TheMarf] [link to this post]
 
Oh dear ... frown.

All that's needed is the capital "B". The rest is flim-flam and there are irrelevant entrenched views about it. If the units used are clear, it mattereth not.

The point is that without them being clear, someone asking a speed question, (the OP in this case), can be greatly misled.

Note that the download speed quoted in "real world" downloads using byte values use "B".

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 19-Oct-11 17:17:42
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: Zadeks] [link to this post]
 
You're talking [censored]. You can keep trying to push this but you don't even use the service.

---
> Comparison chart of FTTC ISPs
> Got FTTC? Complete the survey

BT Infinity 8th July 2010
(NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
23.5mbit down / 8mbit up
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Wed 19-Oct-11 17:37:34
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I find it's simplest to write bits or bytes in the first place, as any attempt at economy of characters is always lost when we end up with yet another thread trying to explain the difference or correct an error !

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 18:07:41
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Off topic.


[re: TheMarf] [link to this post]
 
I was being facetious

Anyone know what makes 'facetious' and 1 other word in the dictionary unique ?

Standard User Jaggies
(committed) Wed 19-Oct-11 18:35:46
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Re: Off topic.


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
It has all the vowels in alphabetical order? More than one other word with the same thing, though...

I can find abstemious, abstentious, adventitious, aerious, annelidous, arsenious, arterious, and caesious on a quick Google.

~~~~~
Brian
From September 2001 on BTopenworld Home 500/Home 1000/Home 2000. Then ADSLMax on <n>ildram. Moved to ADSL2+ from ADSL24. I'm now with plusnet. I'm not saying who I work for. Any opinions expressed here are my own.
Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 19-Oct-11 18:40:39
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Re: Off topic.


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Just to be somewhat facetious...

How is it unique if one other word has the same characteristics?

---
> Comparison chart of FTTC ISPs
> Got FTTC? Complete the survey

BT Infinity 8th July 2010
(NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
23.5mbit down / 8mbit up
Standard User zebedeeeeee
(committed) Wed 19-Oct-11 20:12:55
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: TheMarf] [link to this post]
 
It is idiots like you that confuse everyone else by not staying with conventions. Anyone with comms knowledge,, which you obviously lack, knows that serial data rates are in bits (with prefix if required) and that bits uses a small b. File sizes are in Bytes with a big B.

A bytes can be any size and I have worked with 7,8,9,16,18,24,32 or 36 bits in a Byte.

Just look at the confusion in adverts where who, like you, do not understand the subject and ignore convention, write speeds of 40MB per second or 40mbps or data allowance of 40Gb.

Conventions are there for a reason.

Real World using speeds of megabytes - you are talking out of your rectum. Have a close look at how Microsoft indicate the connection speeds - in every version of Windows I can see from here (98, XP, Vista and 7) it tells me the connection is either 100Mbps or 1000Mbps - that is bits.

Get it right.


I'm a Virgin user.

I try to use one a month - if I can find one!
Standard User geordiekris
(experienced) Wed 19-Oct-11 20:37:26
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: TheMarf] [link to this post]
 
Thats better than the 10 you see on adsl max

i can say whatever i want as i no longer work for the [censored]!
Standard User Squirrel
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 21:11:09
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: Zadeks] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zadeks:
All P2P is shaped during peak. (BitTorrent, Hamachi, Spotify, etc)

Good - keeps all the bandwidth bandits off of my "network" and on someone else's

Standard User XRaySpeX
(knowledge is power) Thu 20-Oct-11 00:17:00
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Re: Infinity and traffic shapping


[re: zebedeeeeee] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by zebedeeeeee:
A bytes can be any size and I have worked with 7,8,9,16,18,24,32 or 36 bits in a Byte.
I doubt they were all called Byte; the larger ones would've probably been called Word.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 17 Meg Untweaked 19 Meg Tweaked WBC
Standard User TheMarf
(learned) Thu 20-Oct-11 09:30:25
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f-ck me


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
F-ck me I have created Nerdmageddon!

In reply to a post by zebedeeeeee:
Real World using speeds of megabytes - you are talking out of your rectum. Have a close look at how Microsoft indicate the connection speeds - in every version of Windows I can see from here (98, XP, Vista and 7) it tells me the connection is either 100Mbps or 1000Mbps - that is bits.

Get it right.


Sure, network connection speeds are given in megabits, but transfer speeds as reported by browsers? Nope!

http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt105/MrMarf/spee...

That is what I mean by real world, as I've been alluding to, its all about interpretation.

There really is no need to resort to calling me an idiot zebedeeeeee.

Wait, silly me, what am I saying?! Forums these days are all about point scoring and slagging people off. :/

Meanwhile I'll happily continue to ignore convention and use megabytes per second to describe my infinity transfer speeds, as it is an easy way to estimate out how long a file will take to download.

Marf
BT Infinity - 1.8 megabytes per second transfer speed smile

Edited by TheMarf (Thu 20-Oct-11 09:51:27)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 20-Oct-11 09:35:45
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Re: f-ck me *DELETED*


[re: TheMarf] [link to this post]
 
Will close the thread before mud slinging starts. I think most posted in a good humoured way.

Also swearing is not allowed on the forum and gets a post removed, not just edited.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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