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I am currently on Sky with TV, broadband and phone and generally the package works out at just over £50. I'm looking at coming over to BT with everything. This could save us £11 a month and get us the wonderful fibre in the process! estimated infinity speeds of 32 down 10 up
Occasionaly I do a bit of torrenting with my speed at 16 meg (i get about 1.6 m/s on the dl) and was wondering if people would be kind enough to comment on there migration over to BT infinity and p2p dl speeds.
is there any throttling / shaping? or is this only if you exceed any FUP ? Thanks In Advance
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Torrents are supposed to be severly throttled by BT, though there are those who say it is by-passable.
BTInfinity
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P2P traffic is often throttled during peak times (approx 4pm till midnight) - last time I checked it was <1MBit/s (can be as low as 50kbit/s) during peak time, limited to 2MBit/s for a couple of hours either side of that and unlimited outside of those times. But I've not really done anything thats identified as P2P traffic in awhile so not sure exactly how it is atm.
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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just get yourself a VPN i thought, and no issues.
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Its pot luck, sometimes you can download at full speed other times its as slow as 10KB/s
The other night I was up to 2am and the speeds were still restricted, I don't use P2P much anyway but got my self a VPN for £2 a month and that solves the problem and its still cheaper than PlusNet with the pro add-on.
Edited by Matt182 (Mon 16-Jan-12 17:30:04)
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http://i.imgur.com/hIHPD.jpg
For the benefit of Zen users getting their pockets picked by their ISP: BT Infinity, Bit Torrent, 6.50PM on a week night. 2.8MB/sec (about as fast as my line can go)
/thread.
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The checker said I should get 30meg down and 8 up, I actually get 38meg down and 8 meg up. With Sky I had 3.5 meg down and 660 up! I cant comment on the torrents, I'll have to ask the kids 
Gary
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Just to add another side to that.
8.35pm very slow downloads
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww116/Matt_RB_197...
Connected with my VPN 3min later and downloading at almost full speed.
http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww116/Matt_RB_197...
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Please don't think that because that ubuntu torrent isn't being slowed down P2P isn't being throttled. Throttleing is selective, I get full speed on ubuntu torrents at peak time but downloads from a private tracker crawl.
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I think you're being paranoid.
Either BT throttle the protocol/port or they don't.
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Actually it is feasible for DPI based throttling to target some sites, and give exceptions for a whitelist even though all using the same protocol.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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P2P is throttled at peak times. See Matt182's post.
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I'm supportive of BT and have even worked for them in the past. That level of management seems a bit unlikely.
More likely is the other guys private tracker is garbage. Also, if it's private, you'd suspect it's less likely to be known as a public tracker. Unless BT has a serious office full of top professionals who know all the trackers and seek them out. Ask yourself how feasible that is? The lazy approach, favoured by ISPs is to let a protocol/port work or simply switch it to naughty.
To test...I went to a well know piracy website and picked a torrent with the highest seeds for Ubuntu from it and loaded it up. Obviously I won't be picking something "illegal" to download as that would be silly. Distinct lack of surprise on my face when it too runs at full pelt. Perhaps openbittorrent.com is alright along with ubuntu's own tracker. Note that the openbittorrent tracker is being used for the distribution of plenty of illegal stuff too.
As usual...the screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/TvZ2E.jpg
Edited by orly (Tue 17-Jan-12 19:19:05)
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@Matt182
Could you give us a link to this VPN that you got, that runs d/l's at full speed?
been looking at VPN's and its a bit of a minefield.
thanks
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Incorrect as usual.
As per BTs traffic management pages, P2P may be slowed down if the network is suffering. "may" != "is"
http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/10495... should help you.
I've shown down the thread that it is not currently being slowed either today or yesterday. Refer to the screenshots taken within BTs defined "peak hours". If a BT user is experiencing poor P2P speeds they either haven't configured their software correctly or are connecting to poor seeds or trackers.
Edited by orly (Tue 17-Jan-12 19:33:59)
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More likely is the other guys private tracker is garbage. Also, if it's private, you'd suspect it's less likely to be known as a public tracker.
Im sorry but you come across so biased its unbelievable, even when you are shown that it is restricted you still say its not just because you got lucky and downloaded at full speed. Look around the internet and you will see many people posting up the same finding as my self, its not restricted all the time but it definitely is restricted.
Just FYI I went to the ubuntu website and download the torrent direct from them.
As you can see when not using my VPN the speeds are restricted, if it was a case of utorrent not being correctly setup or a [censored] tracker then my speeds would not have increased when I connected to my VPN a few moments later.
By all means correct people when they are wrong but you are coming over as a total fan boy and blinded by what other people are reporting.
To the OP, who you believe is upto you. But if you sign up and find you cant download any more than 100KB/s at peek times then you know why.
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No bias. Screenshots show it isn't being throttled here.
As you can see from the BT website they don't throttle geographic areas. Either it's throttling or it isn't.
As before...something at your end is the problem. I'd have happily shown you how to set up utorrent to make it work but you seem to want your connection to be poor. Meh, your loss.
Edited by orly (Tue 17-Jan-12 22:44:26)
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Where on the BT site exactly is the bit about not throttling geographic areas?
If this was true for traffic from consumers through the BT network it would imply that all traffic goes through a very large single node.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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The 21CN network is such that there are different nodes, and one node may be seeing traffic levels triggering management and another is not. Have you considered this in the it is alright for me, so must be your connection.
For an ISP with a single old IPstream 34Meg BT Central this was still the case, as these had two sides, 2 x 17 Meg, and you could have congestion on one and not the other.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Is traffic management used to manage congestion in particular locations? No
If so, how? n/a
source: http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/10495...
This again implies it either kicks in or it doesn't and it isn't picky. It's particularly sad when even some BT users get suckered in by the false information and use it as an excuse when they clearly haven't got their setup right.
Edited by orly (Tue 17-Jan-12 23:18:47)
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Assuming the BT Retail backhaul goes through the twenty standard WBC nodes, (which something Andrew said a fair while back makes me unsure of), then it is possible a particular node can become congested and require traffic management. Ala Entanet.
The nodes are not fully geographic, as was evident on the map that ADSL24 once published. Each MSAN is linked to a fixed node on WBC, (on WBMC routing kicks in), and in many exchanges some MSANs go to one node, and others to a different one. As I remember it a few connect to more than two nodes.
There were some amazing links! I have dim memory for example of Bramhall, near Manchester, going to Wolverhampton whilst all around it go to Manchester.
Given that, it is possible you are both right. It isn't "geographic", but some users will possibly be affected and not others. As an illustration, here is the live loading on Entanet MSILs at the WBC nodes.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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I'm not really sure ADSL24/Entanet information has any bearing on BT.
Any easy way of determing which node you are on?
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The UK is a particular location, so surely their state so does this mean no peak time traffic management at all?
The WBC node architecture, which makes a lot of sense as it avoids a single failure point, the rules for management will probably be the same on all of them, just that how it impacts a user relates to what others are doing on the network.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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The UK is a particular location, so surely their state so does this mean no peak time traffic management at all? I don't know what you are saying there Andrew? The WBC node architecture, which makes a lot of sense as it avoids a single failure point, the rules for management will probably be the same on all of them, just that how it impacts a user relates to what others are doing on the network. I believe you are wrong there Andrew. There is no load balancing between nodes, though there are apparently fail-over switches to alter the routing in the event of a fault at a node. In normal running the load on each node is independent of the others, as can be easily seen on the Entanet loadings.
However, I referred to something you posted a while back, which I can't find, implying that just as BT used Central Pluses, whereas nearly all other ISPs used Centrals, the now have some other connection into the BTW network that doesn't link through MSILs at the nodes.
Can you remember what it was?
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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I'm not really sure ADSL24/Entanet information has any bearing on BT. It has a high relevance to any ISP using WBC, unless as I said, and have just asked Andrew about, BT do not use the normal WBC node MSIL handovers.
An ISP has to rent capacity at, and their own backhaul from, each node. They don't rent a national capacity to be used wherever the demand is at any given moment.
National capacity was the original idea, but just before Entanet went live on WBC BTW changed it to individual node capacity. I suppose there is a chance it has been changed back, but I haven't seen any mention of this.
The MSILs are the logical replacement for BT Centrals but are at the twenty fixed locations (for all ISPs) that you can see on the Entanet page. Just as a Central can get overloaded, so can an MSIL, though MSILs don't generally completely clog up like Centrals did. The ISP can however restrict somehow the flow through them, as at I think above 105% of rented capacity the charges shoot up. Any easy way of determing which node you are on? No way at all that I know of. It was feasible for most people when the ADSL24 map was around, as most exchanges were single-node linked, but I guess BT asked him to remove it.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Paranoid.. not at all. I tested and saw the behaviour with my own eyes, although it was several months ago when I witnessed the behaviour, not long after the FUP was removed IIRC so things could of changed since. I will test again at the next opportunity.
What I did was load a ubuntu torrent at peak time, to my supprise it ran at full speed. So I loaded up a torrent from a private tracker, with thousands of seeds, and it crawled at about 10 KB/s, so I enabled the option to cuircumvent the shapping and got full speed, 4.4 MB/s. Clearly the ubuntu torrent wasn't being throttled but others were. This was the first time I had seen this, previously if P2P was shapped even ubuntu files were slow.
I reproduced this on several nights at the time and can say with 100% certainty it was not merely paranoia. Everything is setup properly, if it wasn't or there were insufficient seeds, full speed wouldn't of returned off-peak.
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I'd be interested in seeing screenshots of your utorrent settings/preferences
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Maybe misunderstood me, or my post confused.
Was not hinting that if a node failed it would move traffic to elsewhere, rather that if a node fails it is better to lose just 7% of userbase, than 100% if they passed everything through one supernode.
Central Pluses are a 20CN histortical thing, by now I expect BT Retail to have dropped them and pushing all traffic over 21CN, apart from perhaps a small number of exchanges. Reason being 20% or more cheaper traffic wise. Current architecture I've not followed so closely as so many providers solutions to keep an eye on now.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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So you reckon they will be using the 20 WBC nodes and MSILs just like Enta and perhaps other big ISPs? As opposed to smaller ones using WBMC, which just wouldn't make sense for large customer bases, as you say.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Something like that, but as BT Retail tends to try and avoid running its own network, I think they will be renting the final link from the nodes to the internet at large from BT Wholesale too.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Interressting ...
Including the routers then you think? In which case what's the point of having the handover? Why not be pure white label?
Or do you mean back to their routers/email etc., then outward from there. Which is quite normal I think.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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By BT retail controlling QoS via its traffic management, and BT Vision injects etc they can avoid buying too much internet access.
Pure white label would reduce the ability of BT Retail to differentiate itself
As BT Wholesales biggest customer little need for generic white label, they can get a product defined suitable for their needs. Others of the same size have the same equivalence to negotiate this sort of thing, plus product options BT Retail access are available via BT Wholesale.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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So they do have their own routers in the link, plus some servers it seems. That's all I was worried about, with you saying "renting the final link from the nodes to the internet at large from BT Wholesale". 
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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Wont say routers, but happy to say hardware
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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OK.
Hmmmm  .
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.
"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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