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Standard User qasdfdsaq
(member) Wed 09-May-12 01:04:04
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Re: Switched to Infinity 2 this morning


[re: adebov] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by adebov:
In reply to a post by qasdfdsaq:
No, I said already the server has changed.

Manchester (Xilo) no longer points to 91.199.78.82, it now points to 31.193.12.35. I stated this clearly in my previous post:

I know; that's why I deliberately repeated the traceroute to the IP address you gave (rather than the resolved name for their Manchester speedtest server, or 31.193.12.35).
I was trying to replicate the times you saw (albeit with slightly different routing) and did, indeed, do that (showing around 3ms difference between a server you've already stated is definitely in London and 91.199.78.82 (where ever that IP is, it's likely not to have moved far, as the timings are pretty much the same).

There wouldn't have been a lot of point me doing a traceroute to a server now based in Manchester, to prove (either way) the timings from London to somewhere near London (the point being to see how far away, in terms of typical commercial traffic, that server is likely to be from - I guess - the north-east end of Docklands), and at 3ms (give or take) it's fairly close to London - most likely either Maidenhead or Milton Keynes (if, indeed, it's still a Xilo server at 91.199.78.82).

Given the timings you've mentioned from London to Manchester (6-8ms), 91.199.78.82 is unlikely to be more than 100km from Docklands (Maidenhead and MK are both within that distance).

OK - I misunderstood what you were getting at. Sorry. It appears we're in general agreement - 91.199.78.82 is not in Manchester, and as it resolves to speedtest.xilo.net it's almost certainly another Xilo server. Traceroutes show traffic going via mhd.uk.as44574.net so one can reasonably assume mhd stands for Maidenhead so it's probably the Maidenhead server.

It all goes back to a comment I posted a while back (something along the lines of "how come my ping to Manchester is 10ms, yet pings to MK - around 30 miles away - are 26ms, unless BT is doing some weird-ass routing, or the Manchester server isn't in Manchester").
EDIT: Or how come pings to Manchester are the same as to Coventry (with Coventry less than 30 miles up the road and Manchester something like 130 miles away - does data really go 100 miles in zero ms).
EDIT2: Another oddity - Paris 10ms, Manchester 10ms, London 26ms (surely the Paris data goes through London on its way out of the country).

This is why we need to use traceroutes (and several of them) to accurately determine latency and paths, rather than just relying on the Speedtest.net flash app. Web based tests can be highly inaccurate, and some Speedtest.net servers show consistently higher or lower pings than actual.

Right now, Manchester seems to be one of them - these speedtests show my ping to be 9ms 8ms and 9ms again while the real ping is 12ms:

C:\Users\Administrator>ping 31.193.12.35

Pinging 31.193.12.35 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 31.193.12.35: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=58
Reply from 31.193.12.35: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=58
Reply from 31.193.12.35: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=58
Reply from 31.193.12.35: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=58

Ping statistics for 31.193.12.35:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 12ms, Maximum = 12ms, Average = 12ms

C:\Users\Administrator>hrping -s 25 -n 100 -q 31.193.12.35
This is hrPING v3.13 by cFos Software GmbH -- http://www.cfos.de

Source address is 0.0.0.0; using ICMP echo-request
Pinging 31.193.12.35
with 32 bytes data (60 bytes IP):


Statistics for 31.193.12.35:
Packets: sent=100, rcvd=100, error=0, lost=0 (0.0% loss) in 2.487892 sec
RTTs of replies in ms: min/avg/max/dev: 11.021 / 12.630 / 19.763 / 0.993
Bandwidth in kb/sec: sent=2.411, rcvd=2.411


Similarly on my home connection Speedtest says 37ms while command line ping shows a little over 40:

C:\Users\Administrator>hrping -s 10 -n 100 -w 1000 -q 31.193.12.35
This is hrPING v3.13 by cFos Software GmbH -- http://www.cfos.de

Source address is 10.1.1.1; using ICMP echo-request
Pinging 31.193.12.35
with 32 bytes data (60 bytes IP):


Statistics for 31.193.12.35:
Packets: sent=100, rcvd=100, error=0, lost=0 (0.0% loss) in 1.030660 sec

RTTs of replies in ms: min/avg/max/dev: 39.680 / 40.352 / 41.466 / 0.413

Bandwidth in kb/sec: sent=5.821, rcvd=5.821


London (Namesco) is a server that does the opposite - with web results always showing much higher pings than actual - 66ms 68ms and 67ms while the real pings is actually 34ms:
Statistics for gonzales.namesco.net:
Packets: sent=100, rcvd=98, error=0, lost=2 (2.0% loss) in 49.534376 sec

RTTs of replies in ms: min/avg/max/dev: 33.888 / 34.345 / 43.325 / 1.020


So my real ping to the London server is 34ms but Speedtest.net says 68ms
and my real ping to the Manchester server is 40ms but Speedtest.net says 37ms.

Basically, Speedtest.net web results for pings are inaccurate, and can be much higher or lower than the real result.

Course, there is things like weird routing as well. The Preston server for example is hosted on Virgin Media's network, so anyone on VM near Preston will get a low ping - but someone on BT in Preston will get a higher one as their traffic goes via London and back again.

Also, shorter/longer distance does not necessaries mean shorter/longer pings. On VM for example, it takes longer to get from London to Birmingham than it takes to get from London to Manchester. The Birmingham link takes 8ms RTT, but Manchester is only 6ms. So people in Coventry (on VM) get a higher ping to London (1ms to Birmingham + 8ms to London) than someone in Manchester (6ms).

A worse example, Virgin Media also have a "direct" fibre link from Manchester to Amsterdam - 500km as the crow flies - with a round trip time (ping) of about 26ms.
But on BT, Manchester to London then London to Amsterdam takes 15ms total, and that's 625km. 25% longer distance, but still 40% lower latency. That's an extreme case though, VM's Manc => Ams link is exceptionally slow as far as modern networks go


And once recently a bad route caused traffic to France to go via New Jersey and Amsterdam. It happens all the time - and traceroutes will help you figure out how and why.

So anyway
1) Speedtest.net results can be completely whack
2) Longer distance does not necessarily equate to higher ping (but there are physical limits)
3) The shortest or most obvious route is often not the one your data actually uses.

Edited by qasdfdsaq (Wed 09-May-12 01:31:20)

Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 09-May-12 02:00:31
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Re: Switched to Infinity 2 this morning


[re: adebov] [link to this post]
 
The locations are a bit odd, sometimes There is one server in the UK, actually hosted in Germany and there was another at OVH, but that has vanished.

Matt

uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
Standard User adebov
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 09-May-12 16:45:33
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Re: Switched to Infinity 2 this morning


[re: qasdfdsaq] [link to this post]
 
smile
Yeah, so general rules of thumb: -
1. Take no notice of where Speedtest.net says the server is located.
2. Ignore the pings (there are lot of hops on the way between here and any of the speedtest servers, so 10ms seems unlikely for any of them - to get through, say, 16 hops and a round-trip, even direct route, of 300 miles seems quite an achievement at 10ms).
3. Assume your ISP will be routing your data from Oxfordshire to Manchester, via the Outer Hebrides.

And to confirm the effect routing has;
Pinging 31.193.12.35 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 31.193.12.35: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=49
Reply from 31.193.12.35: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=49
Reply from 31.193.12.35: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=49
Reply from 31.193.12.35: bytes=32 time=20ms TTL=49

Ping statistics for 31.193.12.35:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 20ms, Maximum = 20ms, Average = 20ms

Yours is 12ms.


Pinging gonzales.namesco.net [85.233.160.167] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 85.233.160.167: bytes=32 time=14ms TTL=51
Reply from 85.233.160.167: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=51
Reply from 85.233.160.167: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=51
Reply from 85.233.160.167: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=51

Ping statistics for 85.233.160.167:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 12ms, Maximum = 15ms, Average = 13ms

Yours is 34ms (my ping according to Speedtest.net is 10ms - it seems Speedtest.net only ever gives two ping results for me - 10ms and 26ms - they can't all be that!).

Ade

vDSL2 FTTC Infinity with BT
DL Sync 80Mbps
UL Sync 20Mbps


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 09-May-12 17:22:18
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Re: Switched to Infinity 2 this morning


[re: adebov] [link to this post]
 
I get 5, 15 (correct), or 25. Usually the 25 arises on the auto-server choice based on ping tongue!

I say the 15 is correct because on IDNet it was a rock solid 13ms on tests and tbb BQM, and tbb BQM showed 15ms on Plusnet when I tried it a couple of times. (It's a dynamic IP so I had to set up, run for a while, then delete).

5ms is impossible for here.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Standard User J_Walsh
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 11-May-12 20:22:21
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Re: Switched to Infinity 2 this morning


[re: richarddawson] [link to this post]
 
Good results smile
Was changed to the 80mb on wednesday after the estimate of 60 mb glad with the results laugh

false

BT Infinity

Edited by J_Walsh (Fri 11-May-12 20:24:09)

Standard User TH3ORY
(newbie) Wed 16-May-12 01:24:09
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Re: Switched to Infinity 2 this morning


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
lol the ping sucks on infinity broadband mine is 15ms.. why im saying this, i was on sky copper broadband my ping was 5ms it was perfect for online gaming smile infinty isnt all that...

Edited by TH3ORY (Wed 16-May-12 01:25:31)

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