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Standard User WestBrom
(newbie) Sat 28-Jul-12 10:45:29
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ADSL2+ upgrade


[link to this post]
 
Hi

A few days ago BT upgraded our local network exchange, (which if it wasn't for a few trees I could see from my window), to ADSL2+. It warned that, for the next ten days there might be some slowdown or cutting out, so I was fully expecting some erratic broadband for a bit.

Essentially, my broadband has virtually keeled over.

ADSL line status
Connection information
Line state Connected
Connection time 0 days, 17:25:53
Downstream 283 Kbps
Upstream 440 Kbps

ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.5
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 31.6 dB / 32.3 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 16.5 dB / 6.7 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 0.0 dBm / 12.1 dBm

I've looked on various BT forums and, whilst there are many posts dealing with exchange upgrades, nothing seems as bad as this. Do you think it will get any better after 10 days or has something probably gone wrong? It's rather frustrating you see as I do a lot of work from home.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sat 28-Jul-12 11:05:33
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: WestBrom] [link to this post]
 
Can you run the speedtest at www.speedtester.bt.com and get the IP Profile for your connection?


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 28-Jul-12 12:36:57
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Can you run the speedtest at www.speedtester.bt.com and get the IP Profile for your connection?
?
Downstream 283 Kbps
The answer is 135.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 28-Jul-12 12:41:45
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: WestBrom] [link to this post]
 
Hi, welcome to the forums. Something went wrong at some stage early on, as you have a crazily high noise margin. Have you tried disconnecting and reconnecting?

Just do it once! Doing it several times close together could make things worse in a different way. Please take and post the stats again immediately after reconnecting.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sat 28-Jul-12 12:43:47
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Ok, lets assume that actually is one of the answers. I would imagine that DLM has reduced the profile due to something or other, and it will recover automatically in the fullness of time.


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Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 28-Jul-12 13:28:53
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: WestBrom] [link to this post]
 
Also plug into test socket behind faceplate and take stats.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User WestBrom
(newbie) Sat 28-Jul-12 14:43:38
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply

I tried disconnecting and reconnecting, but it made no difference to the noise margin. I think I'll be patient and just wait the 10 days out before messing any further. Hopefully it'll recover on its own.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 28-Jul-12 15:13:12
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: WestBrom] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by WestBrom:
Thanks for the reply

I tried disconnecting and reconnecting, but it made no difference to the noise margin. I think I'll be patient and just wait the 10 days out before messing any further. Hopefully it'll recover on its own.
No chance frown.

What do you mean by disconnecting? Did you, for example, turn the router off?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Standard User flippery
(regular) Sat 28-Jul-12 17:26:06
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Interesting, as I have a similar problem with a recently ADSL2 Upgraded Exchange, which my ISP is saying is noise on line. I have questioned that it may be Upgrade.
Before Upgrading to ADSL2+
Speed 287 Down 448 Up
Noise 33 14
Att 37 16

After Upgrade

Speed 287 888
Noise 18 14
Attn 37 16

Changed ISP in July CN21 Upgrade month.
Previous 5500 Down 448 Up

Must see if anyone else local has had same problem.
What was your speed prior to upgrade.
As you appear not to have upgrade to ADSL2 yet what are you g.DMT figures.
Standard User Stanman_24
(knowledge is power) Sat 28-Jul-12 20:22:27
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: WestBrom] [link to this post]
 
looks like your isp has set it on as diagnostic profile

SOTV KRO BCFC smile
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sat 28-Jul-12 20:38:21
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: Stanman_24] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Stanman_24:
looks like your isp has set it on as diagnostic profile
Can you explain what that means?


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 28-Jul-12 21:41:21
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Comprehensive Diagnostic Profile reagent rotor used with the VetScan Chemistry Analyzer utilizes dry and
liquid reagents to provide in vitro quantitative determinations of alanine aminotransferase (ALT), albumin (ALB), alkaline
phosphatase (ALP), amylase (AMY) total calcium (CA++), creatinine (CRE), globulin* (GLOB), glucose (GLU), phosphorus
(PHOS), potassium (K+), sodium (NA+), total bilirubin (TBIL), total protein (TP), and urea nitrogen (BUN) in heparinized
whole blood, heparinized plasma, or serum.
Alternatively:-
The ADDL Diagnostic Forum introduces a new feature entitled "Diagnostic Profiles" in this issue. The intent will be to suggest a panel of diagnostics which will be appropriate and helpful in defining the cause of non-specific disease syndromes. Practitioners are often presented with patients having clinical signs which fall into a general category of disease that may represent one of a number of specific conditions and may result from various etiologies. Approaching a differential diagnosis simultaneously with multiple testing modalities should expedite determination of a definitive diagnosis.


My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Standard User MHC
(legend) Sat 28-Jul-12 22:35:42
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Comprehensive Diagnostic Profile reagent rotor used with the VetScan Chemistry Analyzer utilizes dry and
liquid reagents to provide in vitro quantitative determinations of alanine aminotransferase (ALT), albumin (ALB), alkaline
phosphatase (ALP), amylase (AMY) total calcium (CA++), creatinine (CRE), globulin* (GLOB), glucose (GLU), phosphorus
(PHOS), potassium (K+), sodium (NA+), total bilirubin (TBIL), total protein (TP), and urea nitrogen (BUN) in heparinized
whole blood, heparinized plasma, or serum.
Alternatively:-
The ADDL Diagnostic Forum introduces a new feature entitled "Diagnostic Profiles" in this issue. The intent will be to suggest a panel of diagnostics which will be appropriate and helpful in defining the cause of non-specific disease syndromes. Practitioners are often presented with patients having clinical signs which fall into a general category of disease that may represent one of a number of specific conditions and may result from various etiologies. Approaching a differential diagnosis simultaneously with multiple testing modalities should expedite determination of a definitive diagnosis.



Have you been on the brown lemonade again? Or was it too much Sanatogen?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 28-Jul-12 22:43:59
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
I just googled "diagnostic profile", in case there was a BT Wholesale DLM setting I wasn't aware of. From the myriad results, those two early ones seemed as good as any smile.

I didn't see a BTW one, still reeling in shock - look at the final sentence of the second one! I like the alliteration though.

White lemonade tonight. Unfortunately not of the fizzy variety.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 28-Jul-12 22:44:45)

Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sun 29-Jul-12 09:02:59
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Noise margin (Down/Up) 31.6 dB / 32.3 dB

Looks like a hard capped profile to me, I notice that the OP didn't get back to us on the stats from the test socket, or what the previous sync rate was.

I wonder if it was just set up wrong to start with, nice short line, G.DMT will cope with something unfiltered, and the OP was never aware of an issue. The 21cn stuff is far more fussy, hence the uber-low sync.

Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sun 29-Jul-12 09:15:47
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Yes that's what I thought too, hence my request for the IP Profile from the OP.


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Standard User flippery
(regular) Sun 29-Jul-12 10:44:02
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I understand that an MSAN can have noise spikes induced within the signal. Also that they are less tolerant of noise. Previous post seems to concur.
That the MSAN has been introduced, not necessarily for extra speed capability, but more to do with the Multi Signal Capability.
Given this, is it not possible that false positives can be obtained and speed Cap introduced.
Does it mean that a MSAN can magnify a problem that exists and tolerated by DSLAM.
My technical knowledge is limited and this may not be the place to air the questiion.
However, I find that the first point of blame by ISP is noise.
Standard User WestBrom
(newbie) Sun 29-Jul-12 11:00:21
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Unfortunately, whenever I try the test I always get:

The system is currently busy. Please try again shortly, however if this problem persists, raise the issue with your service provider
Standard User WestBrom
(newbie) Sun 29-Jul-12 11:10:48
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I tried a quiet line test but there was no noise whatsoever.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sun 29-Jul-12 11:25:19
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: WestBrom] [link to this post]
 
Are those all the stats available from the HH3 or are there more?
Maybe including "rate attainable"?


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Standard User WestBrom
(newbie) Sun 29-Jul-12 13:35:26
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
By HH3 I presume you mean Home Hub 3? This is a Home Hub 2 - I can't seem to find the max attainable line rate on it.
Standard User WestBrom
(newbie) Sun 29-Jul-12 13:47:04
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Though I found a calculator online which, based on my downstream attenuation, says it ought to be about 21526 kbps
Standard User WestBrom
(newbie) Sun 29-Jul-12 14:00:14
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
To answer this, (or rather - fail to), from what I can gather, I don't have a test socket as all of our sockets are LJU rather than NTE5. I'm afraid I don't know what the previous sync rate was. In terms of simple speed, I was getting 5000-6000 kbps if I recall.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sun 29-Jul-12 14:14:35
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: WestBrom] [link to this post]
 
Yes, you should get a fast connection if only your noise margin wasn't so high.


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Standard User WestBrom
(newbie) Sun 29-Jul-12 16:34:35
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Right, I contacted BT who looked into it and said that it's a fault in their network. They hope to fix it within the next 48 hours - I'll report back then.
Standard User Stanman_24
(knowledge is power) Sun 29-Jul-12 16:38:57
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
isp called opal on their business connections automatically drop the sync speeds down to like a 1/4 of a meg when users are experiencing connectivity problems
I know because we a reseller for them and whenever any of our customers experience problems the first thing they do is drop the connection sync right down similar to what this person is experiencing

with the normal internal wiring problem they sync speed and throughput are two different things however with this sync u can see it is sitting at around 256KB

look at his noise margins but his power output is very confusing

SOTV KRO BCFC smile

Edited by Stanman_24 (Sun 29-Jul-12 16:41:07)

Standard User MHC
(legend) Sun 29-Jul-12 17:50:22
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: Stanman_24] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Stanman_24:
... but his power output is very confusing


Why?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Stanman_24
(knowledge is power) Sun 29-Jul-12 19:28:35
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
it is zero

SOTV KRO BCFC smile
Standard User MHC
(legend) Sun 29-Jul-12 19:39:56
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: Stanman_24] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Stanman_24:
it is zero


And?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Stanman_24
(knowledge is power) Sun 29-Jul-12 21:05:07
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
cos most adsl connections have a voltage to ensure the DTE receives a signal

he is still a good few km's from the exchange

SOTV KRO BCFC smile
Standard User MHC
(legend) Sun 29-Jul-12 21:11:47
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: Stanman_24] [link to this post]
 
Yes, and he has a signal there ...

0dBm is a legitimate power level, and is NOT zero power. It is also the reading that a lot of routers give in their stats when very little traffic is being passed as there is no signal in a large part of the band.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 29-Jul-12 21:12:31
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: Stanman_24] [link to this post]
 
Have you ever seen a Home Hub reporting a non-zero downstream power level?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre FTTC 80/20 trial.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 29-Jul-12 22:36:40
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
But is it the router or is it the connection that's doing it?

All my routers report 0 dB Down Power on my WBC connection. They had positive power when it was LLU.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 30-Jul-12 09:29:37
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Re: ADSL2+ upgrade


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
And for everyones random theories, the truth looks more likely to be a systems failure when setting the initial profile for a line.

To the posters, a resync at the test socket, or with as much of your own wiring should be enough for a good ISP to figure out its something wrong. Also ISP's have access to historical data for a line.

As for Opal, they can do what they want, as they have control of the DSLAM. Also an MSAN is JUST a DSLAM but with potential to provide voice as well as ADSL.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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