Netgear router query -replacing HH3

Im thinking about purchasing the Netgear WNDR4500 http://goo.gl/KQmxA

Can any of you guy with knowledge confirm if this router will choose a good clear channel, I cant see this listed in the spec.

Is there a site detailing how to set this up with my BT infinity?

Out of interest why is the BT HH3 just good in most cases -are other router build with better components?

Thanks

Lee

Was looking gin the app store the Netgear Genie receives very poor reviews - has anyone here use the Genie?

Edited by deleted (Mon 24-Dec-12 18:26:12)

I think the signal strength in general is much better on the netgear (you get what you pay for) but yeah the homehub 3 is not that bad really the auto switching channel is kinda of useless though imo.

Particularly seeing as the power and even occupied channels of every other WAP within reach of the computer's wifi antenna vary wildly by the second.

(Anyone on Windows who hasn't used InSSIDer get it, and watch the graph of signal strength. My "occupied channels" comment refers to the fact that a lot of WAPs on "N" use two channels when doing things, but drop down to one when relatively idle. Which is a spread of 4, jumping up to 8).

would I continue to obtain around 74 down and 16 up as I currently do with the HH3?

If anyone can explain why Netgear and others are generally better routers?

lee

The router should not have any affect on the speed you see from the modem - but there are instances where it happens and no one can say why!

Thanks for the reply.

Im really interested to know if anyone can answer why routers vary like the HH3 to net gear - is software or hardware or both?

Lee

Both, just like computers. Oh, they are computers!

but the HH3 is around £90 the netgear another 30ish I guess £30 can buy superior parts

lee

Why are you looking to upgrade?

Bear in mind that WiFi is restricted by output as well as other things. Buying a new router doesn't mean you'll get better range.

I've been through many routers and found all of the range to be pretty similar. The homehub is actually one of the best I've used.

Range on a netgear WNDR3700 I found was worse than a homehub and sky Hub.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Tue 25-Dec-12 20:49:46)

Thanks -i feel confused as to what to do - the HH3 is generally fine but I was something with a slightly better wifi and having read many comments in here the HH3 doesn't appear to bode well with many that seem to have knowledge of these things = the wndr4500 works on 2.4 and 5 am I kidding myself in thinking it would be a better unit than the Netgear 4500 I live in a 3 bedroom house and the back bedroom struggles a little for the wifi signal. I dont really want to spent £150 unless i really need to

lee

Or profit in the supply chain ...

BT buys in large volumes direct from the manufacturer ... so just one mark up when buying from BT or two if using DABS or similar..

Netgear, also large volumes. Netgear China either makes/subcontracts manufacture; sold to Netgear UK or US, sold to major distributor, then sold to second line distributor and then sold to you. So possibly two or three extra links in the chain.

Well 5ghz travels less than 2.4 which the HH uses. That'll offer no benefit right regards to range.

Most wifi devices have similar range.

If the issue is just that you want a slight better coverage you'd be better buying something else...
Can you get a cable to the room you're struggling to get range?

A cable from the HH to that room?

Then for around £20 setup a wireless repeater here. So you'd get full wifi signal

Edited by ukhardy07 (Tue 25-Dec-12 22:54:24)

No it would not be feasible to cable.

I just wondered if I have understood correctly i that the netgear and other routers seem to broadcast a better/stronger wifi signal than the HH3?

Lee

In reply to a post by Leenig:

I just wondered if I have understood correctly i that the netgear and other routers seem to broadcast a better/stronger wifi signal than the HH3?

The NETGEAR 4500 on 5ghz will be less range than the HH3 currently goes.
5Ghz penetrates walls, floors, people and pretty much anything quite badly.

The 2.4ghz might be marginally better however I would not expect miracles. It could actually be worse.

Output of wifi devices on 2.4ghz is restricted under law. The HH3 will be already broadcasting at this limit. The 4500 will also broadcast at this limit.

Now some routers have more antennas / better antenna positioning that can mean the range goes further. This is the only thing that really makes a difference...

The 4500 supports on 2.4ghz 150Mbps and 300Mbps on WiFi.
With the 300Mbps setting it would travel probably less than your current HH3

With 150 Mbps it might be marginally better.

The real answer is to install a second AP nearer to where you're having signal troubles.

I used the Netgear 3700 which is reported to have just as good / if not better wifi than the 4500. I found this went less of a distance than a Sky Hub and HomeHub 3.
This is in a 6 bedroom 3 floor house.

Believe me when I say I've tried most routers that claim 'amazing range.'

Here's something crucial.
You can upgrade the router but you are still connecting with the same devices.
These devices need to send a signal back to the router for things to work.
A better router means the signal gets from the router to the PC better.
It doesn't improve the return signal from the PC to the router.
So a better router might not solve the issues at all.
If you still can't get a signal back it's not going to work regardless of how well it can receive data.

As I say a new router isn't a great suggestion in my opinion. You'd be better looking at other options which I can certainly help you with.

OR you could buy an expensive router, because it might work, buy it from somewhere with a good returns policy in-case it doesn't.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 26-Dec-12 09:36:53)

Is your homehub in 300Mbps or 150Mbps mode at the minute out of interest?

Here's my solution. This is assuming homeplugs work well in your home. If you have poor wiring they probably wont.

Buy a set of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-PA411KIT-AV500-Power...
& this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/D-link-300-Mbps-4-Port-10-...

Set the Homehub to use channel 1 WiFi
Plug one homeplug into a spare Ethernet port of the Homehub 3.
Plug the other homeplug into the room where wifi is poor.

On the d link router,
Name the WiFi the same as the Homehub
Use channel 6, not 1 on the D-link
turn off DHCP on the d link
and finally connect it to the homeplug in the room where wifi is poor.

At this stage.

When devices get better signal to the d link router they will use that wifi
When devices get better signal to the homehub they will use that wifi.

Devices will hop seamlessly between the two access points.

Bobs your uncle.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 26-Dec-12 09:48:23)

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

The 2.4ghz might be marginally better however I would not expect miracles. It could actually be worse.

Visible physical antennas may be better than hidden internal ones. (e.g. Draytek 2820 has 3 very visible antenna)

Also putting the router on a table towards the centre of the building can make a dramatic difference.

150 mode

Lee

Thanks I really appreciate the time you have taken to reply. Whats happen I say a house it two flats we have purchased which we are converting back to one house at the moment the electrics run on 2 circuits. This will be the case for a while being the money has to be spent on other materials right now.

It looking likely I will stay with the HH3 then I cant afford the risk to spent £130 if the chances are slim of improvement in WiFi signal.

Whats your view on the WiFi range Ext : http://netgear.co.uk/home/products/wireless-range-ex...

Thank so much

Lee

If you are doing a conversion then surely you must be getting to the fabric of the house before a complete re-decoration. If that is true, it is the ideal time to run Cat5e or Cat6 cables throughout the house bringing them all back to a central point.

Do you have BT infinity ?

No the conversion a few months off (Money) but will certainly run a cat cable.

Lee

yes to do we have BT Infinity

Lee

When you do run the cable - I can give you a supplier who offers good prices (and no commission to me).

Work out what you need and where. Then increase locations by 50%. At each location put in a double run and where you think you need two, run in four. My lounge has 12 outlets, master bedroom has six, downstairs cloakroom and en-suite/dressing room, two each!

A range extender works but isn't great.
The extender has to take everything that you do and then repeat it again wirelessly.
It results in the wireless overall throughput (real term speed) being halved.

So if you sat next to the homehub & connected to it you would get double the max speed of sitting next to the repeater & connecting to it. AND THIS IS AT BEST!

It could be that the repeater ends up even slower...

On BT infinity it makes a big difference because the repeater ends up being the restrictive factor as the BT infinity connections far faster than the repeater can go.

Would it work to extend the range? YES
Would I recommend doing it this way? Certainly not.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 26-Dec-12 19:29:50)

Again thanks for all your knowledge and input. I think from your replies and couple of others Im going to stick with the HH3. The iPad and iPhone receive a signal but can be lost in the back room -the Apple Tv seem to work without an issue.

I just read very negative stuff about the HH3 having googled due to WiFi issue myself. It would appear that spending money on a new router isn't go to help me. For those of you in the know who wish to alter various setting I guess other routers offer more scope.

Lee

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Everyone as be so articulate in their replies and not knocked me for what may appear to some of you a dumb question.

I have put in another post going to stick with the HH3 being other routers made say they offer better range but not always the case, but great if you wish to alter the settings etc.

Lee

One good reason is that BT lock HH3 right down. I want to set my own DNS resolvers. Also HH3 does not resolve boxes on the internal network, hence I get to hard code IP addresses.

Also HH3 is very unstable and needs a reboot at least once a fortnight.

Perhaps you have a faulty homehub.
My HomeHub 3 uptime is 182 days on the fibre service and it's running fine still. Never unplug it unless there's a powercut / something is happening with the phone line which might affect the profile.

It's a connection provided via work but for some reason they install the home service not the business one.

I have no complaints.

Yes the HH is locked down but for the average Joe DNS settings isn't a major issue and you can always configure these on each individual client (I believe but could be wrong).

I definitely do not reboot every 2 weeks. I don't reboot once every 3 months even.
The WiFi range on it is really decent too.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sat 29-Dec-12 21:21:34)

Set the region to "Mexico" and this will increase the output power of the router, naughty I know.

Just tried this on my sky hub but it's only got europe. Not that I need more range.

In cities such as New York they have much more problems with WiFi than say London. The reason being that output is a lot higher in the USA on routers. In cities and apartments this means they're getting far more wireless routers interfering with their own.

So lower output isn't always a bad thing around the world. I find it surprising that the UK of all countries have this lower output restriction. I never thought the USA, Mexico etc would have been higher but in some cases I believe it's almost twice the output compared to the UK?

I am convinced though that this new Sky Hub replacement has some crazy output. It broadcasts like an AM radio station. I'm shocked. My first one was pretty poor but this replacements crazy.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sun 30-Dec-12 13:29:15)

I live in a 3 story house, on the top floor in Europe mode (uk) I get 1 to 2 bars on my laptop, when I set it to Mexico I get full signal @ 150mbs, the difference is massive.

Wow, I'm not at home right now but can this setting be changed on a homehub 3 (is that what you're using)?

In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:

I live in a 3 story house, on the top floor in Europe mode (uk) I get 1 to 2 bars on my laptop, when I set it to Mexico I get full signal @ 150mbs, the difference is massive.

Also you can be really annoying anyone with Apple OS X hardware, and probably Windows 8 - which both listen to the beacon country code and limit the channels in use.

My neighbour had some faulty hardware that was transmitting country code TW for Taiwan and I couldn't connect from my Mac to my 5 GHz test base station. Thankfully their router failed and they replaced it with one transmitting GB otherwise I'd have been knocking on neighbours doors :-/

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Wow, I'm not at home right now but can this setting be changed on a homehub 3 (is that what you're using)?

I'm using WNDR37AV (3700)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:

I live in a 3 story house, on the top floor in Europe mode (uk) I get 1 to 2 bars on my laptop, when I set it to Mexico I get full signal @ 150mbs, the difference is massive.

Also you can be really annoying anyone with Apple OS X hardware, and probably Windows 8 - which both listen to the beacon country code and limit the channels in use.

My neighbour had some faulty hardware that was transmitting country code TW for Taiwan and I couldn't connect from my Mac to my 5 GHz test base station. Thankfully their router failed and they replaced it with one transmitting GB otherwise I'd have been knocking on neighbours doors :-/

I couldn't care less about apple users

In reply to a post by lockyatlrg:

I couldn't care less about apple users

Linux users too - its only Windows that seems to ignore the standard.