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Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Mon 25-Mar-13 14:04:48
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Switching to BT - My Experiences


[link to this post]
 
Hello all,

Today is the date I was given by BT on which my current Tesco Broadband will be switched over to BT's 'Unlimited Broadband'. I have predicted speeds of 16-19.5Mbps according to BT

Tesco sent the MAC Code almost immediately after it was requested, and it has been entered into the BT system, this morning the Home Hub 3 was delivered, and I am now just waiting for the service itself to become active.

I assume I will know when this is, because the current broadband will drop out as it can't connect to Tesco, and this will be a signal to connect the HH?

(I will keep this thread updated as things progress)

Edited by matthewcl375 (Mon 25-Mar-13 14:11:53)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Mar-13 14:32:42
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
I believe are cases, both on BTw connections, where both ISP's logins work concurrently for a short period.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 25-Mar-13 14:34:05
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
It will be interesting to hear if you have a period of downtime because there may have to be some work done at the exchange - we never really established what exchange kit you are/were connected to.

Hope it goes well smile


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Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Mon 25-Mar-13 17:00:03
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
UPDATE

Well, about an hour ago the lights on the old TG582N started flashing, so I swapped it out and installed the new Home Hub, broadband light went blue almost straight away and here are my stats looking on the advanced settings:

ADSL Line Status

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 00:23:03
Downstream: 15.7 Mbps
Upstream: 888.9 Kbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 9.4 dB / 11.9 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.0 dBm / 10.6 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 32

As can be seen my output power has increased, but I am pretty sure I should be seeing a higher sync than 15.7Mbps crazy

Speedtest.net shows 13.5Mbps throughput at the mo, I'm not sure how long it takes for the IP Profile to be calculated....

Edited by matthewcl375 (Mon 25-Mar-13 17:10:23)

Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 25-Mar-13 17:16:01
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Be patient, let it settle...the IP Profile is calculated from the downstream sync speed...hopefully you will sync at 24Mbps before too long smile
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 25-Mar-13 17:16:45
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
IP Profile calculation is instant on the WBC platform
So is 88.2% of the 15.7 Mbps i.e. 13.8 Mbps so no problem there if speedtest.net is showing 13.5 Mbps.

it is possible the connection which is now in its first few hours of running is running on a banded profile, so might get faster. You need to be patient and allow time for things to happen now.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Mon 25-Mar-13 17:21:02
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Just now downloaded a program at 1.6 Megabytes Per Second, so certainly faster than before smile

Is it normal for the Hub to re-sync at higher speeds than the first speed during the first 24 hr/10 day period?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 25-Mar-13 17:24:14
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
It is possible

As there were question marks over the lines performance previously, it is time to monitor and keep notes, but NOT ask about every little change until things have settled down now.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Mon 25-Mar-13 18:13:38
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Sure, I will keep an eye on the ADSL line stats. Still waiting on the BTW Speed Tester to update, as it's currently showing "an error occurred while trying to retrieve additional details regarding your service."
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Mon 25-Mar-13 20:01:54
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Is anyone aware of a tool like router stats that works with the Home Hub 3?
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 25-Mar-13 22:22:29
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Glad to see you have now transferred and are getting ADSL2+ speeds, but not yet quite up to speed. Give it time and it should get at or near 24 Meg.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 25-Mar-13 23:02:17
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I think we were fairly sure there is a non-ISP-related problem with something, and I at least wondered if it was the line card he was connected to.

The thing is we can't be sure he isn't still on the same card.

I have strong doubts that things will improve.

I note that his attenuations are now in proportion.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 25-Mar-13 23:02:42)

Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Mon 25-Mar-13 23:39:22
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Well what can we do except wait for the training period to complete and check the stats then?
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 26-Mar-13 00:24:30
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I note that his attenuations are now in proportion.
I note that Down has not risen by 3 dB. as is usual, while Up has decreased by 3 dB. Is that of significance? Could just be short line or Tesco router, tho' he got similar from a BT Home Hub on Tesco connection.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 26-Mar-13 01:02:30
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Too tired to check back. I thought Tesco stats were showing 6dB/6dB attenuation?

Sleep time for me.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 26-Mar-13 01:11:25
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I thought Tesco stats were showing 6dB/6dB attenuation?

Yes, using Tesco router (or with BT Hub 5.0dB up, 7.0dB down).
Therefore Delta Attenuation ~= -3 dB up, 0 dB down.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Tue 26-Mar-13 12:52:51
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
One 'anomaly' I have noticed is that as MrSaffron correctly pointed out my IP Profile should be 88.2% of my sync speed, however according to the BTW Speed Tester my IPP is 14.18Mbps crazy
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 26-Mar-13 12:58:48
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
And the sync speed at the precise time you found out that IP Profile setting?

Still the speedtest.net result is reasonable for that IP Profile. Speedtests also incur other overheads that are part of your PC/AV software/firewall/router/network/internet variables.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Tue 26-Mar-13 13:22:45
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The sync speed hasn't changed since it was activated yesterday, just interesting as 14.18 isn't 88.2% of 15.7 so wondering where BTW got that figure from
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 26-Mar-13 13:23:31
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
One 'anomaly' I have noticed is that as MrSaffron correctly pointed out my IP Profile should be 88.2% of my sync speed, however according to the BTW Speed Tester my IPP is 14.18Mbps crazy


13.85Mbps x 1024 = 14182Kbps - could be something to do with that smile
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 26-Mar-13 13:29:22
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Very likely

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 26-Mar-13 15:18:34
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
13.85Mbps x 1024 = 14182Kbps - could be something to do with that smile
Good spot!

But, equally alternatively, the router does not exhibit many significant figures in its results.

So, Sync = 15.7 Mbps x 1024 = 16077 Kbps True.

IPP = 14.18 Mbps = 88.2 % of True Sync.

I'd back this calc as I've never found the BT IPP "out-of-sync" with my routers' reported Sync Speeds, leading to the conclusion that the BT Home Hub is using the unconventional M = 1024 * K.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Tue 26-Mar-13 15:22:50
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Ok, I have just had a chat with BT India regarding my sync speed not coming close to what I was predicted by their systems, wasn't expecting to get much help from them actually but the guy did a line check, found the speeds I am getting then said he was matching them with the 'system details'.

He came back saying there is a fault on the line, he suspects it is a network fault and has escalated it to the 'Network Fault Specialist Team', who are due to call me back later today.

Maybe finally we can get somewhere with this underperformance problem, however when I track the fault with BT there is a little diagram showing the 'BT Retail Servers' highlighted, but I can't see how the problem would be with BT Retail crazy
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 26-Mar-13 15:37:56
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
"Maybe finally we can get somewhere with this underperformance problem, however when I track the fault with BT there is a little diagram showing the 'BT Retail Servers' highlighted, but I can't see how the problem would be with BT Retail"

No idea what you are talking about here. The sensible thing would have been to wait for the training period to complete and it is unusual for BT to take a fault report in the first 10 days. So half expecting this to turn out into a nothing will happen scenario.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 26-Mar-13 15:40:07
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
The problem is the OP doesn't give us the full picture most of the time and tends to selectively answer questions. Also IP Profile and throughput seem to concern him more than downstream sync speed, attenuation and SNRM values.

Probably the call to BT support will only confuse matters even further...
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Tue 26-Mar-13 15:57:58
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
@MrSaffron Basically BT found a broadband line fault in their tests, so what difference would it make waiting till the end of the 10 days if there is still a line fault?

I am concerned with anything basically which affects throughput, whether it be attenuation, sync speed or Noise Margin values.

@4M2 what haven't I given the full picture about? I'm keeping this thread updated as things change and happen

I'm not sure I understand the "M = 1024 * K" that @XRaySpeX mentions above, is he saying there is a difference between my reported sync and the true sync?

Edited by matthewcl375 (Tue 26-Mar-13 16:00:34)

Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 26-Mar-13 16:02:03
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Please give us the full results of the BT speed tester...
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 26-Mar-13 16:17:57
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
4M2 was postulating that there is a difference between your reported IPP and the true IPP, while I was saying it was more likely there is a difference between your reported sync and the true sync; both by the same factor of 1.024.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Tue 26-Mar-13 16:35:59
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
BTW Speed Test has a slightly different layout for my new connection:

Downstream:

Download speedachieved during the test was - 13.5 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 14.18 Mbps

Upstream:

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.68Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 26-Mar-13 16:53:02
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Sorry I'm on partial LLU these days, but does the BT speed tester still give a value for the downstream "DSL Connection Rate"?
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 26-Mar-13 16:56:52
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
No, it doesn't any more!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Tue 26-Mar-13 16:57:16
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Strangely enough since switching it hasn't crazy Wish it did could then work out the 'true sync' easier
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 26-Mar-13 16:59:19
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Please post you router stats verbatim to go with that.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 26-Mar-13 17:02:37
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Yes, on 20CN the BT speedtester did show the "DSL Connection Rate".

Perhaps that proves that you have been physically moved from 20CN ket to 21CN kit.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 26-Mar-13 17:08:51
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
No, it doesn't any more!


That a shame not having a DSL connection rate - guess we will just have to work with the numbers reported by the BT router.

After a couple of weeks if there is no significant improvement it would be interesting to use a DMT compatible router and check for any tone gaps plus, of course, verification of the reported stats including error rates.
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Tue 26-Mar-13 17:09:52
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Which should have eliminated any issues at the exchange end, including anything to do with the line card....

Stats below:

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 1 days, 00:34:51
Downstream: 15.7 Mbps
Upstream: 888.9 Kbps


ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 9.4 dB / 12.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.0 dBm / 10.6 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 24 / 169
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 32
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 11
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 4 / 0
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 26-Mar-13 17:15:32
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
True sync, urm - log into the router and viola it will be there

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 26-Mar-13 17:18:45
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Forlorn hope but does router show sync speeds anywhere else, preferably in diff units?

That Down Sync does not gel with the IPP, which I trust from experience.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 26-Mar-13 17:19:34)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 26-Mar-13 17:22:34
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Then why is IPP of 14.18 / Sync of 15.7 = 90.3% and not 88.2%?

You said earlier that IPP follows Sync instantly.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Tue 26-Mar-13 18:20:06
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
DSL just re-synced, now at 16.13Mbps laugh A slight improvement, I'm now at least within the 16-19Mbps predicted by BT

Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Tue 26-Mar-13 18:36:34
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
There's something weird going on here, @XRaySpeX I think you're right on the mark with the Home Hub not reporting the true sync, just checked the logs after this latest re-sync to see this:

18:17:40, 26 Mar. (92942.120000) DSL is up
18:17:37, 26 Mar. (92939.790000) DSL noise margin: 14.50 dB upstream, 9.00 dB downstream
18:17:36, 26 Mar. (92938.680000) DSL line rate: 888 Kbps upstream, 16521 Kbps downstream

16521Kbps, way off the 16.13Mbps shown by the Line Stats crazy
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 26-Mar-13 18:48:30
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Probably because of a 1024 issue.

I don't have access to the full source code and logic of the router or the BT speed test systems to give you the answer you really want.

Are you questioning whether the IP profile follows the sync speed immediately on WBC? Or just querying the value?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 26-Mar-13 19:05:38
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
16521Kbps, way off the 16.13Mbps shown by the Line Stats crazy


16.134Mbps x 1024 = 16521Kbps smile
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 26-Mar-13 19:09:43
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED*


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by Chrysalis
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 26-Mar-13 19:22:56
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Had you been following this you would have seen we had already identified a 1024 issue. Hence I am just questioning the sync value reported by the router, as from experience I trust the IPP value reported by BTw. That is why we are talking here about "True Sync".

There is no need for access to any source code; the logic can be reversed engineered empirically.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 26-Mar-13 19:28:59
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
18:17:36, 26 Mar. (92938.680000) DSL line rate: 888 Kbps upstream, 16521 Kbps downstream
Well, there you have it! The elusive "True Sync" we have been postulating grin.

In future, please always report logged sync along with router stats and IPP.

What is IPP now? 14.57 Meg?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Tue 26-Mar-13 19:32:25
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Soooo close, it's:

Download speedachieved during the test was - 14.71 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 14.58 Mbps
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 26-Mar-13 19:41:36
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Throughput is more than IP Profile - glad I went to partial LLU rather than 21CN WBC smile
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 26-Mar-13 19:45:32
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
Download speed achieved during the test was - 14.71 Mbps
Don't trust this figure! It's higher than IPP (this time but not last), which is impossible.

You can trust IPP, but BTw Speedtester is notorious for sometimes getting throughput wrong.

Always use other speedtests, preferably TBB, for a reliable throughput reading.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Tue 26-Mar-13 19:58:39
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Yep, I know all about that from my experience of 20CN, did exactly the same thing tongue

It's kind of weird how a router can sync up at one speed, and then the next day sync at a completely different speed absent any changes in SNR Margin or Attenuation, the only thing that has changed is a 0.1dbM increase in downstream output power
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 26-Mar-13 20:07:15
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Not weird at all, the noise environment is a fluctuating beast.

If you were to plot all the DMT bins you would probably be able to spot the variations, but that is going into detail I that would blow your mind

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 26-Mar-13 20:17:14
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
I believe there are further complex factors involved other than attenuation, SNRM and power. But after a resync and the stat numbers look about right you should be fine.

Be patient and just allow the connection to settle.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 26-Mar-13 20:18:42
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
the only thing that has changed is a 0.1dbM increase in downstream output power
You've been told repeatedly: stop concentrating on minuscule changes and even attributing significant effects to them. Just ignore them; they are effectively equal.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Tue 26-Mar-13 20:54:32
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
I will. That's all I can do now tongue

FYI I have found out my sync time SNR Margin is definitely 9db, for some weird reason
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 26-Mar-13 21:13:48
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
I will. That's all I can do now tongue

FYI I have found out my sync time SNR Margin is definitely 9db, for some weird reason


That's normal: 3, 6, 9, 12dB's at sync time, then there will be some variation throughout the period of connection. As you previously found with C&W an after-dark margin may be less than a day time one during the same connection period due to noise.

Personally I like to sync when it's dark and then I get a larger margin which is great for stability but the downside is I loose a little sync speed.

As you can see http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8250/8592685799_490d8b... my line gets a little noisy at night smile

Edited by 4M2 (Tue 26-Mar-13 21:39:29)

Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Tue 26-Mar-13 22:01:39
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Yeah I just thought 6db was the BT default which it would try first during the 10 days...

And lol that's quite some noise there
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 26-Mar-13 22:06:53
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
A 9dB SNRM should be fine on your short line...sorry I don't know what the BT default margin is.

Ah, but my attenuation is 6x more than yours LOL!
Standard User ryant704
(regular) Tue 26-Mar-13 22:15:10
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
I believe 6 is the default(target) SNR.

Edited by ryant704 (Tue 26-Mar-13 22:15:21)

Standard User chris6273
(committed) Tue 26-Mar-13 22:56:02
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
Yeah I just thought 6db was the BT default which it would try first during the 10 days...

And lol that's quite some noise there


It depends. The DLM will be trying your line on each Target SNR starting from 6/9dB and getting lower until it hits one which results in an unreliable connection/high error count; It's the way it works.

When I was transferred over to 21CN equipment I started off with a 7.4dB SNR Margin and after 3 days the DLM tried my line on a 3dB SNR Profile which I'm still on.

The DLM is programmed to try out each profile for a certain amount of time before it tries the next step; it's all a matter of waiting.

One thing I am interested in however is the Interleaving which is currently applied to your line. That indicates a high error count at some point has occurred or the connection has been unstable. As far as I know the DLM starts off connections on Fast Path and enables interleaving if there is a high error count or if the connection drops out too many times. Bearing in mind your Attenuation readings I would expect a fresh DLM profile to try you out on Fast-Path first...

-------------------------------------------------------------------
My Broadband Speed Test

Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed: 22494 kbps 1211 kbps
Line Attenuation: 16.0 db 9.7 db
Noise Margin: 2.6 db 6.7 db

Telewest (2004-2006): 256Kbps -> 512Kbps
BT (2006 - Present): 8128/448Kbps on 20CN Alcatel DSLAM -> 22494/1211Kbps on 21CN Huawei MSAN

Edited by chris6273 (Tue 26-Mar-13 22:59:52)

Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Tue 26-Mar-13 23:05:29
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: chris6273] [link to this post]
 
Not sure regarding the interleaving, I'm pretty sure my line could support fast path, I mean DSLs been up for nearly 5 hours, with only 2 FEC Events Down and 44 Up, so I see no need for interleaving but somewhere the DLM does crazy
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 26-Mar-13 23:25:46
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: ryant704] [link to this post]
 
On WBC 3dB is the default Target NM with Fast Path on stable lines.

EDIT: That's what it aims at but will approach it gradually as not all lines are stable and it is learning your line.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 26-Mar-13 23:28:47)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 27-Mar-13 00:09:02
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Ummm.

The default, i.e. the value at which it is set on initial connection, is still 6dB. What has changed is that as well as being able to increase it on unstable lines it can now also lower it on stable ones. Seemingly after a much shorter period than its recovery period from disturbance of 10-14 days.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Wed 27-Mar-13 01:30:36
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
So, a bit of a mystery as to why it is at 7db on mine, maybe the DLM trying out various settings?
Standard User ryant704
(regular) Wed 27-Mar-13 08:29:46
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
If your target SNR is 7 it would have to be manually set, the DLM will only change it to 3 or 9 in extremely rare cases (from what I've seen).

Is your SNR 7 or do you mean target of 7SNR?

Edited by ryant704 (Wed 27-Mar-13 08:30:34)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 27-Mar-13 08:42:46
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
It goes up and down continually over 24 hours. It only gets set at the time you connect, and BT systems use 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15dB. 18dB used to be available as a manual setting on ADSL Max but I don't know if that is still the case on all products.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 27-Mar-13 10:59:41
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: ryant704] [link to this post]
 
Due to the variations in SNRM during a period of connection we always request the OP to supply his reported SNRM at the moment of a re-sync (sync time) smile
Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Wed 27-Mar-13 12:20:23
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Well, at about 4 this morning, unless there was some weird power outage, it looks like the DLM decided to do a re-sync, here are my new stats as of the time of posting this:

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 08:20:17
Downstream: 16.08 Mbps
Upstream: 888.9 Kbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 8.9 dB / 13.3 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.0 dBm / 12.1 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 68 / 121
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 32
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 11
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

And here are the stats from the logs:

03:57:28, 27 Mar. ( 100.560000) DSL is up
03:57:26, 27 Mar. ( 98.240000) DSL noise margin: 13.20 dB upstream, 9.00 dB downstream
03:57:24, 27 Mar. ( 97.160000) DSL line rate: 888 Kbps upstream, 16461 Kbps downstream

Weird that not much has changed

Edited by matthewcl375 (Wed 27-Mar-13 12:28:04)

Standard User matthewcl375
(member) Wed 27-Mar-13 12:41:10
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Looking closer at the log it seems the whole hub was rebooted by an engineer remotely logging in, at 4am crazy

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Limit of uservisible log >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
03:56:14, 27 Mar. ( 26.520000) Booting firmware 4.7.5.1.83.8.94.1.11 (Type A)
03:55:31, 27 Mar. (127613.420000) DSL is down after 577 minutes uptime
03:55:30, 27 Mar. (127612.080000) PPPoA is down after 577 minutes uptime
03:55:23, 27 Mar. (127605.260000) Server URL: https://pbthdm.bt.motive.com; Connecting as user: ACS username
03:55:21, 27 Mar. (127603.510000) Initializing transaction for event code 6 CONNECTION REQUEST
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 27-Mar-13 12:41:10
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Rien n'a changé then.

The 7dB NM you chucked in was just an intermediate night-time non-sync time value.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 27-Mar-13 12:46:39
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
The HomeHub 3 is remotely managed in terms of logging in and checking firmware versions etc.

With 6 million customers it will NOT be someone logging in individually to your home hub.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Wed 27-Mar-13 12:51:30
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
That makes sense, they didn't update my firmware though it's still the same version as before

Download speedachieved during the test was - 14.5 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 14.52 Mbps
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 27-Mar-13 13:33:30
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Seems to be ticking over nicely - give it time and I'm sure you will have adequate speeds smile
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Wed 27-Mar-13 14:36:08
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
It is, but I have a question about these kind of messages which have been appearing in the event log today, here are some from the last few minutes:

14:34:14, 27 Mar. (38306.730000) Admin login successful by 192.168.1.74 on HTTP
14:26:57, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 1 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
14:26:57, 27 Mar. OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:52253->173.194.34.174:443 on ppp0)
14:23:57, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 10 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
14:23:56, 27 Mar. OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:52224->217.41.223.75:443 on ppp0)
14:23:48, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 5 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
14:23:47, 27 Mar. OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:52204->31.13.72.17:443 on ppp0)
14:22:59, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 2 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
14:22:58, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 13 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
14:22:57, 27 Mar. OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:52225->173.194.78.94:80 on ppp0)
14:22:49, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 1 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
14:22:49, 27 Mar. IN: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 217.41.223.73:80->86.160.220.137:52187 on ppp0)
14:18:41, 27 Mar. IN: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 217.41.223.72:80->86.160.220.137:52123 on ppp0)
14:18:37, 27 Mar. OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:52114->173.194.34.174:443 on ppp0)
14:17:32, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 13 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)
14:17:31, 27 Mar. OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:52093->2.18.115.205:443 on ppp0)
14:16:50, 27 Mar. IN: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 87.248.214.50:443->86.160.220.137:52097 on ppp0)
14:16:46, 27 Mar. IN: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 87.248.214.50:443->86.160.220.137:52081 on ppp0)
14:14:54, 27 Mar. OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:52016->173.194.34.160:443 on ppp0)
14:14:12, 27 Mar. BLOCKED 7 more packets (because of Packet invalid in connection)

Very occassionally this blocking of certain packets leads web pages to stop loading, but when refreshed they will load fine.

Does anyone know what these messages mean, and if they should be there?
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Wed 27-Mar-13 15:33:17
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Just had another re-sync:


ADSL Line Status

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 00:03:03
Downstream: 15.99 Mbps
Upstream: 1.13 Mbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 9.0 dB / 6.1 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.1 dBm / 11.5 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 4 / 0

and from the log:

15:28:31, 27 Mar. (41563.880000) DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 9.10 dB downstream
15:28:29, 27 Mar. (41562.320000) DSL line rate: 1156 Kbps upstream, 16372 Kbps downstream

So my downstream sync has decreased (again), and the upstream sync has increased crazy

How come the down sync keeps going down, even though it is within daylight hours ?

Edited by matthewcl375 (Wed 27-Mar-13 15:33:45)

Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 27-Mar-13 16:07:54
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Looks like your upstream sync is starting to settle down nicely, downstream SNRM at sync time increased a touch and hence a very small reduction in sync speed but nothing to worry about - possibly due to a little bit of noise on the line affecting the ADSL2+ frequencies at sync time.
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Wed 27-Mar-13 16:21:17
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
I think I'm now at my maximum achievable upstream speeds laugh

Would I be right in saying, my Target SNR Margin is still 9db but a small amount of noise added that extra .10db? (as DLM can only set 3,6,9,12 or 15db values)

Edited by matthewcl375 (Wed 27-Mar-13 16:22:05)

Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 27-Mar-13 16:30:09
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Others can answer about 21CN WBC and how it works - but to me it looks as if you are doing fine smile

My experience of ADSL2+ is confined to LLU which tends to be a different "kettle of fish"...
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Wed 27-Mar-13 16:36:39
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
lol I'd be on LLU given the choice too tongue

It looks like the increase in my upload speeds has resulted in a lower ping too smile my ping to google used to be around 30ms, it's now gone down to 20ms (over ethernet) laugh
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 27-Mar-13 16:38:01
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
Would I be right in saying, my Target SNR Margin is still 9db
Yes
but a small amount of noise added that extra .10db? (as DLM can only set 3,6,9,12 or 15db values)
The opposite. It is a noise margin (SNRM). So for it to go up 0.1dB the noise has gone down by 0.1dB.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Wed 27-Mar-13 16:47:44
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Ok, so it was something else which caused the lower sync then...
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 27-Mar-13 16:48:20
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
How's Dad taking all this?

Is he finding his Net experience much better?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Wed 27-Mar-13 16:55:20
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Ironically he hasn't used it much as he's been at work, but he managed to watch some iplayer on TV without any buffering over wifi tongue I think he's just glad to be getting better value for money

P.S. Now seeing a few more upstream CRC, HEC and Error Seconds, assuming it's because upstream sync has never experienced it's full potential before

I'm also hoping that what happened to my upstream sync will also happen to my downstream sync in time smile

Edited by matthewcl375 (Wed 27-Mar-13 16:59:36)

Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 27-Mar-13 17:05:19
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
lol I'd be on LLU given the choice too tongue

It looks like the increase in my upload speeds has resulted in a lower ping too smile my ping to google used to be around 30ms, it's now gone down to 20ms (over ethernet) laugh


I don't think LLU is any better or worst than 21CN in the long term - certainly I would never take full LLU though!

20ms is pretty good on an interleaved line smile
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 27-Mar-13 17:06:28
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Despite what the router reports, I believe you are now on Fast Path. Hence the faster pings. WBC usually give no more than 888K Up on Interleaved but well over 1 Meg Up on Fast Path.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Wed 27-Mar-13 17:07:53
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED*


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by matthewcl375
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 27-Mar-13 17:10:02
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED* *DELETED*


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by 4M2
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Wed 27-Mar-13 17:11:00
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Yes, I've heard that 1.2Mbps is the upper limit

You may be right my ping to BT's Gateway server is only 17-18ms
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 27-Mar-13 17:11:08
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED*


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
I misread OP was pinging over wireless

Edited by XRaySpeX (Wed 27-Mar-13 17:15:12)

Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 27-Mar-13 17:20:43
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED*


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
I misread OP was pinging over wireless


I'm starting to get lost and misreading things yet again in this thread.

Think I might be getting information overload wink
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Wed 27-Mar-13 17:30:09
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED*


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Haha, the long and the short of it is, I am still on interleaved, judging by other people's pings, if I was on fast path I would be seeing pings of 10-14ms
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Thu 28-Mar-13 18:13:59
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED*


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
How do these stats look, for a day's connection?


ADSL Line Status

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 1 days, 02:45:09
Downstream: 15.99 Mbps
Upstream: 1.13 Mbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 9.0 dB / 6.2 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.1 dBm / 11.5 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 25 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 106
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 121
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 4 / 70
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 28-Mar-13 18:24:18
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED*


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Looks fine - not many FEC Events though considering the router is showing Interleaved. However I don't know anything about the BT router so I guess anything is possible smile
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Thu 28-Mar-13 18:30:07
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED*


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Only thing I've noticed so far, I am seeing a lot of these kind of message in the logs:

OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:55229->107.21.98.40:80 on ppp0)

Sometimes, and I mean sometimes, this causes a web page to stop loading half way through and need a refresh... looking at the BT forums seems this is a known issue with the newest firmware
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 28-Mar-13 18:34:44
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED*


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
Only thing I've noticed so far, I am seeing a lot of these kind of message in the logs:

OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:55229->107.21.98.40:80 on ppp0)

Sometimes, and I mean sometimes, this causes a web page to stop loading half way through and need a refresh... looking at the BT forums seems this is a known issue with the newest firmware


Buy dad a Billion "n" router for his birthday cool
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Thu 28-Mar-13 18:45:52
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED*


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Hey, if I had 100% control over the broadband, trust me I would be buying some proper professional equipment from Cisco or the likes tongue
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Mar-13 18:59:27
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Well, there's not much to say. Not much has changed, as you'd expect from no re-syncs in that period. All you can say is that it has managed to stay up for 26 hours. No great shakes!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 28-Mar-13 19:21:14
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED*


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
OUT: BLOCK [9] Packet invalid in connection (TCP 192.168.1.74:55229->107.21.98.40:80 on ppp0)
Amazon doesn't want your custom.

BTW: You are publishing your browsing history.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Thu 28-Mar-13 21:50:06
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED*


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
I would be buying some proper professional equipment from Cisco

NO ! They are too fussy by half to be used on a 'normal' residential set up.

Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Thu 28-Mar-13 23:30:06
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED*


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
But then I wouldn't have a normal set up would I tongue I would dig up the street and put a cabinet in so I could get FTTC laugh
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Fri 29-Mar-13 14:28:47
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences *DELETED*


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Ok, about 1hr 45mins ago another re-sync happened, and it seems we are now on fast path laugh

Obviously all that uptime yesterday was required for the DLM to test whether or not the line could support it, here are stats so far:

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 01:45:42
Downstream: 16.06 Mbps
Upstream: 1.156 Mbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 9.0 dB / 6.5 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 19.9 dBm / 11.7 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 8 / 73


A ping from my server (connected over ethernet) to google.com comes back at 12ms laugh

However, speed tests are now only showing up to 10.5Mbps frown Any idea why this is and any way it can be improved?

Edited by matthewcl375 (Fri 29-Mar-13 14:47:44)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 29-Mar-13 14:49:23
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
A ping from my server (connected over ethernet) to google.com
What server are you running? Could it be hogging your bandwidth?

Do a speedtest at TBB and post the Direct Graph Button.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Fri 29-Mar-13 15:06:14
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/13645...

My server just does basic file sharing and IIS, it's off now and speeds seem to have improved on speediest.net as well, maybe just a temporary thing, it has been known to do it before
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 29-Mar-13 15:18:05
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
As matter of interest, why are you running IIS?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Fri 29-Mar-13 15:28:11
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
It's just for any PHP hosting/testing I need to do, not really being used for much at the moment though, but I might start using it a bit more with this wider bandwidth tongue
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Fri 29-Mar-13 16:14:50
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Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Just thought, lower throughput on speedtest.net could be because it's good friday and a lot of people are at home using the internet
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Fri 29-Mar-13 16:21:21
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Could be http://www.speedtest.net/result/2608774164.png
Could be your choice of server.


__________________________________________________________________________The back pedalling starts here__________________
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Fri 29-Mar-13 23:46:41
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Has it been known for the switch to fast path to cause bandwidth decreases?
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Fri 29-Mar-13 23:52:47
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
It could cause packet errors and retransmits which would reduce throughput.


__________________________________________________________________________The back pedalling starts here__________________
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Fri 29-Mar-13 23:56:42
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Any idea how to get put back to interleaved again? I don't really need fastpath tbh... if it's just gonna cause packet loss

Edited by matthewcl375 (Fri 29-Mar-13 23:58:11)

Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sat 30-Mar-13 00:43:02
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
As far as I know, it's completely automatic so you can't influence it.


__________________________________________________________________________The back pedalling starts here__________________
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 30-Mar-13 00:59:08
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Can go either way. See my experience 1.5 years ago, 3 posts from: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/freeserve/t/4045564... . I think I've been on Fast Path @ 3 dB NM ever since.

However the Interleaving depth (depth =1 for Fast Path) is set auto by DLM and if the line is not stable enough to take Fast Path it is unlikely that it will bear a 3 dB NM with the benefit of fast sync speeds.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 30-Mar-13 09:22:53
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Original poster needs to stop worrying and just use connection

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 30-Mar-13 14:32:49
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Exactly, just as I was thinking, a watched router never boils grin

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Sat 30-Mar-13 22:13:07
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Fair, stats after 1 day 10 hours on fastpath:

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 1 days, 09:30:19
Downstream: 16.06 Mbps
Upstream: 1.156 Mbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 8.8 dB / 6.4 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 19.9 dBm / 11.7 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 22 / 58
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 13 / 71
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 30 / 121
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 30-Mar-13 22:19:24
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Hopefully after the next re-sync (don't reboot yourself) the downstream sync time SNRM will drop to 6dB (or even 3dB) and then you will be smiling smile
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Sat 30-Mar-13 23:55:06
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Does this follow the same as before: after 10 days the DLM will lower your Target Noise Margin providing the line is stable?
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 31-Mar-13 00:02:02
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Others will hopefully answer that - I'm on partial LLU, which as I said before, is a very different "kettle of fish". But I'm sure any advice will be to just remain patient smile
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Sun 31-Mar-13 15:25:07
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Hub's done another re-sync and I think the Target Noise Margin is now 6db, giving a rough 1mb increase in sync speed

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 02:49:07
Downstream: 17.09 Mbps
Upstream: 1.125 Mbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 7.2 dB / 6.8 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.0 dBm / 11.3 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 53 / 121

Edited by matthewcl375 (Sun 31-Mar-13 15:45:54)

Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 31-Mar-13 16:47:39
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Looking good smile

Edit: its really interesting to see that on your very short line the ADSL2+ attenuations are the same as when you were on G.992.1 annex A...

Edited by 4M2 (Sun 31-Mar-13 16:51:48)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 31-Mar-13 17:44:12
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
(Not the Up attn.).

Or the 21CN kit has less resistance

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 31-Mar-13 18:11:54
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
You are now syncing at 17.5 Meg at the default 6dB NM.

However, I'm afraid that I find that this short line is still seriously under-performing. It should be syncing well over 20 Meg, if not at the max. of 24 Meg, and it should have got there by now.

My much longer 26 db attn. line syncs about the same on a 6dB NM.

EDIT: Wait and see if and what a 3dB NM can do to it.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 31-Mar-13 18:24:24)

Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 31-Mar-13 18:15:42
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Yes I should have said the ADSL2+ downstream attenuations that we have seen in the OP's recent router stats.

I think yourself and RobertoS discussed earlier in this thread that the attenuations are now in proportion smile
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Sun 31-Mar-13 20:51:25
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Yes you're right, I don't see what I can do though, if I'm syncing within the speeds BT estimated then I doubt they're going to see it as a problem...

Once I'm out of the training period tho may try another router
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 31-Mar-13 21:59:24
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Having similar under-performance symptoms on both ADSL Max & WBC would seem to point to something specific on your particular line & wiring. Have you tried running on WBC from the test socket?

If it's any consolation it took Orange 3 months to get my line running as it should but that is down to Orange's incompetence and the switch from LLU to WBC.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Sun 31-Mar-13 22:17:58
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I haven't tried the test socket again it's something I will get round to probably once the 10 day training has ended
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Tue 02-Apr-13 13:30:17
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Jussst had a re-sync here's what's showing on the event log:


12:57:14, 02 Apr. (547313.600000) DSL is up
12:57:11, 02 Apr. (547310.950000) DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 4.90 dB downstream
12:57:10, 02 Apr. (547309.870000) DSL line rate: 1223 Kbps upstream, 19000 Kbps downstream


And stats:


ADSL Line Status

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 00:32:31
Downstream: 18.56 Mbps
Upstream: 1.195 Mbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 4.8 dB / 5.9 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.1 dBm / 12.3 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 1 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 2 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 74 / 127


Does this mean I'm now on a 3db Target NM?

Edited by matthewcl375 (Tue 02-Apr-13 13:32:21)

Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 02-Apr-13 13:43:51
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
No your sync time downstream SNRM was 4.9dB (~5dB) and the router stats show 4.8dB (also ~5dB)

But things are looking good - you'll probably still get a some more downstream speed out of the line in due course smile
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 02-Apr-13 14:12:51
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
I have a suspicion the BTw DLM can set Down Target NM = 4.5 dB, but have never caught it close enough to find out.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Fri 05-Apr-13 01:22:11
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Now the 10 day period has finished, what happens next? I assume the DLM won't be trying any more ways of improving sync speed now
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 05-Apr-13 02:04:19
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
The 10 day period is just for working out acceptable min speed of line.

DLM runs forever managing your line - the clue is in its title.

You have a good speed. May not be the best but you can live with it. If it improves it is a bonus; if not so what.

Whats throughput like?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Fri 05-Apr-13 02:42:49
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Throughput is around 16.10 to 16.6Mbps, according to speed tests, with an IPP of 16.8 so yeah pretty big improvement to the 6.7Mbps I had before
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 05-Apr-13 08:26:10
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
The 10 day period is just for working out acceptable min speed of line.

DLM runs forever managing your line - the clue is in its title.

You have a good speed. May not be the best but you can live with it. If it improves it is a bonus; if not so what.

Whats throughput like?
A thought.

I'm not aware of the question ever having been asked about the "intelligence" of the BRAS Profile setting (re MSR/FTR) at the end of the 10 days.

This line was seriously under speed, even allowing for it's generally poor performance. This was due to the high target noise margins at the start.

I wonder whether it will have set the MSR a the lowest speed at 6dB, or at the initial 15dB. If the latter, he needs a re-run of the ten days. As far as I can see, the only way to find out is to as support what his MSR and FTR are set at.

@Matthew - the level of the FTR matters if your line deteriorates in the future. If the sync speed stays above the FTR BT Wholesale will say it is still above the minimum expected for it, and won't accept a fault report.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 05-Apr-13 09:26:42
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
To be honest most ISP support seem to ignore MSR/FTR and simply go by what the online checker says the line can support

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 05-Apr-13 12:31:23
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I wonder whether it will have set the MSR a the lowest speed at 6dB, or at the initial 15dB.
I'm not clear where you got these NMs from. This connection has never synced with a 15dB NM; it started at 9dB and has reduced to 4.5dB seemingly. Are you saying BTw would have carried over the 20CN history? Surely not!

I'm not convinced the recorded min acceptable sync matters much. I bet mine is low due to Orange messing about with my profile in its early days on WBC, but I'm not worried. Whenever I've complained to my ISP that my line is under-performing from its theoretical (Kitz) speed they have eventually done something about it.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 05-Apr-13 13:33:59
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
yes and back in the day when my adsl was syncing below my MSR, the engineer shrugged it off and even said he had no idea what my MSR is and didnt care.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - Estimate 65.9/20 - Attainable peak 110/36 - Current Sync 46/20, Current Attainable 74/29
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Fri 05-Apr-13 15:45:47
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
As @XRaySpeX says, it's never synced at a 15db NM highest has been 9, as that was what it was at when it was first plugged in
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 05-Apr-13 15:59:01
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Point of Net grammar: the '@' is used to direct something at a poster other than the one actually being replied to; not to refer to them by name.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 05-Apr-13 16:06:56
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
Just a slip of the memory, sorry.

The same principle applies, and despite what has since been said about the FTR we do occasionally see posters saying their ISP/BT Wholesale won't do anything because they are still above the FTR.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Fri 05-Apr-13 18:21:36
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
So, are you saying that the 10 day training should start with my best speed, whereas this time around it didn't since I was initially connected at a 9db NM. So I should restart the 10 days now I am connected at 4.5db?
Standard User 4M2
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 05-Apr-13 18:51:58
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
My understanding is that the so called 10 day training simply establishes the slowest acceptable sync speed that your line is capable of, if after that the speed reduces to below that acceptable minimum speed you have a possible fault which should initiate an investigation by the ISP. After the 10 day period your speed can rise and fall, as long as it is faster than the minimum speed, which can be due to changes in noise margins - a change in noise margin alone, that does not cause a reduction of speed to below the minimum, will not start a new "training" period unless the DSL connection has been reset by the ISP.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 05-Apr-13 19:00:38
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
No, i think he is saying what he has always said: Read this!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User johnjburness
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 05-Apr-13 20:04:45
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
Jussst had a re-sync here's what's showing on the event log:


12:57:14, 02 Apr. (547313.600000) DSL is up
12:57:11, 02 Apr. (547310.950000) DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 4.90 dB downstream
12:57:10, 02 Apr. (547309.870000) DSL line rate: 1223 Kbps upstream, 19000 Kbps downstream


And stats:


ADSL Line Status

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 00:32:31
Downstream: 18.56 Mbps
Upstream: 1.195 Mbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 4.8 dB / 5.9 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.1 dBm / 12.3 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 1 / 0
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 2 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 74 / 127


Does this mean I'm now on a 3db Target NM?


For comparison purposes I don't know whether this helps, but since we both appear to be on lines that are close to the Exchange, these are my current figures (I was transferred to BT just 2 days ago):-


ADSL Line Status
Connection Information
Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 09:38:07
Downstream: 21.31 Mbps
Upstream: 1.148 Mbps

ADSL Settings
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 2.8 dB / 6.5 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 8.5 dB / 5.0 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.0 dBm / 11.5 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 6 / 6
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 33 / 2
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 10 / 12


Regards,
John
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 05-Apr-13 21:51:13
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
No, i think he is saying what he has always said: Read this!
Thanks, I wasn't around smile.

There is a bit of doubt as to whether the figure of 80% in that link should be 70%. (70% is what I originally had there but later it seemed it had been changed to 80%, now there is doubt about that).

I think the FTR is largely irrelevant in this case given the original 9dB margin. If I had been correct in my recollection of it starting at 15dB I feel it would have been important.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 05-Apr-13 22:51:11
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
If I had been correct in my recollection of it starting at 15dB I feel it would have been important.
You were remembering, perhaps, OP's original Tesco connection on 20CN IPStream.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 05-Apr-13 22:57:54
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Very possibly smile. Either that or another current/very recent thread.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Sat 06-Apr-13 17:46:16
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
@johnjburness your stats are slightly better than mine in terms of sync, hmm I seem to have isolated most causes of reduced sync so all I can put it down to must be something to do with the exchange or the local loop

To everyone else, is it normal for HTTP file servers to 'throttle' your down speed? What I mean by this is, I often download via Bit Torrent, and I see speeds of up to 1.9MBps. However on HTTP, I normally start off at full speed or close to it, but over time the speed goes down.

For example, I am downloading from Apple right now. I started off at 1.7MBps but now only at 750KBps :/
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 06-Apr-13 22:01:00
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by matthewcl375:
@johnjburness ....
It would be preferable to click the Reply button against the post you are replying to in future smile. For a starter the system then labels it as such, and there's no need for the" @someone" in the post.

You may not be aware there is an option in your forum settings to get an email sent when someone replies to you. So I could easily have got an email about this if I had that set - which would have been annoying, and if he relied on receiving an email to tell him he had a reply he wouldn't have got it.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Sat 06-Apr-13 22:04:00
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I know, but I was replying to more than one person so didn't know who to reply to tongue
Standard User matthewcl375
(committed) Mon 08-Apr-13 02:32:31
Print Post

Re: Switching to BT - My Experiences


[re: matthewcl375] [link to this post]
 
This thread's getting pretty long, and I don't have much more to add, my line seems to be doing quite well:


ADSL Line Status

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 5 days, 13:35:21
Downstream: 18.56 Mbps
Upstream: 1.195 Mbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Fast
Noise margin (Down/Up): 4.6 dB / 5.7 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 6.2 dB / 3.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 20.1 dBm / 12.3 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 0
CRC Events (Down/Up): 53 / 149
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 126 / 192
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 123 / 236

Going to close this thread, unless anyone sees anything else that I could do or any problem with the stats smile

Edited by matthewcl375 (Mon 08-Apr-13 02:33:14)

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