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Standard User colic
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 23-Sep-13 17:09:51
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Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[link to this post]
 
A BT engineer came out to look at an issue with my broadband speed about 6 weeks ago and all had been fine since. However today during the day the house phone has rung twice and I have not answered it and let it go to voice mail as the number was "international" when this happened on both occasions my broadband has stopped working. Each time the light on the home hub goes to yellow and restarts.

I have not even touched the wiring since the BT engineer came out to the house.... I don't have my sky box connected to the phone line either just the phone and the homehub to the master socket with a microfilter.

Anyone know why this would happen?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 23-Sep-13 17:27:50
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: colic] [link to this post]
 
If this still happens when using the test socket (i.e. none of your other phone sockets work) then the suggestion is a High Resistance fault, which can be hard to find.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Mon 23-Sep-13 19:26:10
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: colic] [link to this post]
 
Just to add to what MrSaffron said you could also try different micro filters or plug the router directly into the test socket with a phone plug to rj11 modem lead. Call in using a mobile and check if the DSL drops (you will hear a dial tone on a mobile even without a phone connected to the micro filter/test socket.)

I had the same problem when on ADSL MAX and demonstrated the problem to a Openreach SFI engineer using software called RouterStatsLite when he came to my home. The router was in the test socket, I made a call to the home number with a mobile and after approx 5 ring tones the DSL would drop due to the SNRM falling to zero on the RouterSatsLite graph. This was caused by a burst of noise and innumerable errors on the line.

The SFI traced the problem to the exchange but unfortunately he was unable to repair the fault on that day. My ISP (Plusnet) and Openreach didn't seem able to fix the fault so after a few weeks I migrated to another ISP and moved to Partial LLU and the incoming phone call issue went away smile

Good luck.


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Standard User flippery
(committed) Mon 23-Sep-13 19:53:43
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: colic] [link to this post]
 
If you have DECT phone try changing the phone cable. Also double filter phone
only ie internet to first filter, then second filter into phone socket of first filter and connect phone to phone socket of second filter.
Sometimes works, also cheap to check.
Standard User colic
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 24-Sep-13 11:24:41
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: flippery] [link to this post]
 
Will give it a go, I might just disconnect the phone as thinking about it the only people who ring on the house home are sodding PPI company's are people telling me I have a virus on my pc....
Standard User lexden16
(member) Tue 24-Sep-13 13:03:13
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: colic] [link to this post]
 
I have a Fritz!Box 7390 modem router which has a DECT base station built in. One of the minor bugs with this particular box is that about once a week I get a phantom telephone call in the early hours which occasionally results in an internet disconnect. I have also had the situation that you describe: i.e., the internet disconnects with an incoming outside call. Many people have raised this with AVM the F!B manufacturer. Their response is as follows:

Ghost calls and DSL disconnects parallel to incoming telephone calls occur
due to electrical impulses. The latter mostly is caused by a wrong cabling
with an analog landline.

Verify that only the DSL splitter is attached to the main telephone socket
and that no other terminal devices (e.g. telephone, fax machines etc.) and
no other telephone sockets (e.g. via extension leads) are connected to the
main socket. Connect any terminal devices to the extensions of the
FRITZ!Box.

Please find our information on the "ghost calls" by clicking on the
following link:

http://service.avm.de/support/en/SKB/FRITZ-Box-7390-...


All that said, I have used double-filtering with some success when I was on an ADSL line. It is important to remember to connect the modem to the first filter and the telephone line to the second.

And finally, I thought that I read something a couple of years ago about BTOR rolling out integrated high resistance fault testing. Did anything come of this as I recall that the success rate was in excess of 90%?
Standard User Stevenage_Neil
(member) Tue 24-Sep-13 13:14:44
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: lexden16] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lexden16:
..about once a week I get a phantom telephone call in the early hours ......


If you have a Sky box carefully check your wiring...........
Standard User The_Voyager
(committed) Wed 25-Sep-13 10:47:24
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: Stevenage_Neil] [link to this post]
 
It's a Fritz bug, the best way to deal with that:

On the Fritz page goto System|Night Service|Do not disturb and put in the hours

then Telephony|Telephone Book and mark anyone that you don't mind calling you through the night (Family etc|) as Important.

I had to change the start time recently because it started the phantom calling between 23:00 and 00:00 but it seems to have reverted to between 03h and 04h again

Bob WRBRIX
BT Infinity 2 - Fritz! 7390 ~ Sync 79.99/20 Mbits Actual 76.27/19.69 Mbits @ 320m
DialUp to CIX, BT Home Highway+CIX, ADSL1 Nildram, ADSL2 SKY & Be*Unlimited
Standard User niceboy
(newbie) Wed 25-Sep-13 12:38:36
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: The_Voyager] [link to this post]
 
For the fritz!box 7390 problem, why not block all calls incoming that have the number withheld or divert the calls to an answer-phone (there are five on a fritzbox). These calls are almost always caused by automatic testing from the exchange which involves line reversals and disconnections which the fritzbox sees as an incoming call.
Standard User The_Voyager
(committed) Wed 25-Sep-13 12:54:53
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: niceboy] [link to this post]
 
Problem with that approach, is that it blocks International calls, and if you have friends abroad or you yourself call home from abroad, it will block those.

Also there are a lot of businesses and agencies that have an automatic do not display number use, and those would also be blocked, not good if you are waiting for a call back from the council regarding a repair etc.

Bob WRBRIX
BT Infinity 2 - Fritz! 7390 ~ Sync 79.99/20 Mbits Actual 76.27/19.69 Mbits @ 320m
DialUp to CIX, BT Home Highway+CIX, ADSL1 Nildram, ADSL2 SKY & Be*Unlimited

Edited by The_Voyager (Wed 25-Sep-13 12:58:44)

Standard User lexden16
(member) Wed 25-Sep-13 13:29:40
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: The_Voyager] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by The_Voyager:
It's a Fritz bug, the best way to deal with that:

On the Fritz page goto System|Night Service|Do not disturb and put in the hours

then Telephony|Telephone Book and mark anyone that you don't mind calling you through the night (Family etc|) as Important.

I had to change the start time recently because it started the phantom calling between 23:00 and 00:00 but it seems to have reverted to between 03h and 04h again


Done all of that. AVM not interested as the 7390 satisfies BT's technical requirements. Currently, I am getting an unknown call about every 4 days - in the early hours. It now seems to be associated with a brief loss of the internet which doesn't result in a re-synch just a change of ISP gateway.
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Wed 25-Sep-13 13:52:22
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: colic] [link to this post]
 
I agree with Mr.S, about it being the onset of an HR fault, or less possibly the DSL equipment in the exchange. Unplugging the phones won't cure this. If it still keeps happening, get back on to BTBB.

Standard User The_Voyager
(committed) Wed 25-Sep-13 14:07:24
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: lexden16] [link to this post]
 
If you've done all that, then the calls should only be showing up in the log and not ringing the phone, that's what happens on my system, unless you have a phone that is connected directly to the phone line, in other words all extensions must go via the Fritz box for it to work correctly.

Bob WRBRIX
BT Infinity 2 - Fritz! 7390 ~ Sync 79.99/20 Mbits Actual 76.27/19.69 Mbits @ 320m
DialUp to CIX, BT Home Highway+CIX, ADSL1 Nildram, ADSL2 SKY & Be*Unlimited
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Wed 25-Sep-13 14:31:00
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: lexden16] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by lexden16:
I thought that I read something a couple of years ago about BTOR rolling out integrated high resistance fault testing. Did anything come of this as I recall that the success rate was in excess of 90%?
Do you mean CIDT ?openreach CIDT According to the info found by following the link, it should have been rolled out to all exchanges by now, So will be available to all CP's It probably down to costs as to which if any cp's use CIDT or not , that's assuming that they are aware of it being an option open thats available to them ,
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Wed 25-Sep-13 17:05:10
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
A CIDT test is now the standard 'repair' test for LLU providers, and is easily used for BTw based providers too. It would appear to be done by default on Plusnet lines for instance. To be honest, I don't think it's that good at spotting the minor HR's.

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Wed 25-Sep-13 17:39:19
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
A CIDT test is now the standard 'repair' test for LLU providers, and is easily used for BTw based providers too. It would appear to be done by default on Plusnet lines for instance. To be honest, I don't think it's that good at spotting the minor HR's.


Is that the same test that can be ordered by BT Retail to detect intermittent crackling on voice over a 24 hour period? If so I agree it isnít much use!
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Wed 25-Sep-13 19:49:58
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Not sure TBH. Never heard of the test you describe.

Standard User John_ON
(knowledge is power) Thu 26-Sep-13 09:27:42
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: The_Voyager] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by The_Voyager:
....
Also there are a lot of businesses and agencies that have an automatic do not display number use, and those would also be blocked, not good if you are waiting for a call back from the council regarding a repair etc.


My pet hate! Councils, doctors, any public organisation, should be forced by law to display a number that doesn't change. They can easily prevent incoming calls on that number if they're afraid of getting nuisance calls.

John.

RouterStatsHub Beta Line monitoring tool for the Home Hub 3

Website: vwlowen.co.uk
ISP:BT (4.5Mbps)
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 26-Sep-13 10:55:02
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: John_ON] [link to this post]
 
Maybe they need incoming calls on that number, from selected callers.

You can use 141 on your line, but still want family and friends to be able to ring you.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 51.8/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 26-Sep-13 19:25:18
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Maybe they need incoming calls on that number, from selected callers.
You can use 141 on your line, but still want family and friends to be able to ring you.

Councils and public bodies should do what we have at work, each desk has a direct inbound number, but all the outgoing caller ID is our switchboard number.

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Sold 42/6 - Getting 46/8 - Sync 50 / 9 Mbps @ 470m approx
14 years of broadband (ntl: cable to BT FTTC) - Router: Asus RT-N66U - Modem: Huawei HG612 speedtest
Standard User John_ON
(knowledge is power) Thu 26-Sep-13 20:34:35
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
BT have the audacity to offer the Privacy At Home package which comes with Caller-ID and are one of the worst offenders by shifting their own cold-call number to "International" where it's immune from both the TPS and the ICO.

John.

RouterStatsHub Beta Line monitoring tool for the Home Hub 3

Website: vwlowen.co.uk
ISP:BT (4.5Mbps)
Standard User John_ON
(knowledge is power) Thu 26-Sep-13 20:38:41
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
Councils and public bodies should do what we have at work, each desk has a direct inbound number, but all the outgoing caller ID is our switchboard number.


Sounds like the perfect solution. People will quickly recognize the familiar numbers and can safely ignore/block Withheld, International and Unavailable.

John.

RouterStatsHub Beta Line monitoring tool for the Home Hub 3

Website: vwlowen.co.uk
ISP:BT (4.5Mbps)
Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Fri 27-Sep-13 09:23:26
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Maybe they need incoming calls on that number, from selected callers.
You can use 141 on your line, but still want family and friends to be able to ring you.

Councils and public bodies should do what we have at work, each desk has a direct inbound number, but all the outgoing caller ID is our switchboard number.


The problem with that is that then the customer/resident rings the number back, gets the switchboard and switchboard have absolutely no way of knowing who rang them (especially with thousands of staff in councils). Switchboard get overloaded and customer gets frustrated.
Standard User The_Voyager
(committed) Fri 27-Sep-13 10:07:42
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: John_ON] [link to this post]
 
Most blocks block them all, rather than separating into Withheld, International and Unavailable, so that you can block the ones you don't want, I have many friends abroad so cannot block because they would not be able to get through.

On the fritz Box it's either block a known number or without number, not really helpful.

Does anyone know the reason why International numbers cannot be displayed ??

Bob WRBRIX
BT Infinity 2 - Fritz! 7390 ~ Sync 79.99/20 Mbits Actual 76.27/19.69 Mbits @ 320m
DialUp to CIX, BT Home Highway+CIX, ADSL1 Nildram, ADSL2 SKY & Be*Unlimited
Standard User John_ON
(knowledge is power) Fri 27-Sep-13 10:35:46
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: The_Voyager] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by The_Voyager:
Does anyone know the reason why International numbers cannot be displayed ??


From the little I know of Caller-ID, the info is sent as a burst of 1200 Baud modem data between the first and second rings. I assume the UK data format is different from other countries' and there are possibly so many different formats, it wouldn't be practical for the exchange to try to decode them all.

John

RouterStatsHub Beta Line monitoring tool for the Home Hub 3

Website: vwlowen.co.uk
ISP:BT (Infinity 1 - 37.6/8.4Mbps)
Standard User David_W
(experienced) Fri 27-Sep-13 10:46:44
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: John_ON] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by John_ON:
In reply to a post by The_Voyager:
Does anyone know the reason why International numbers cannot be displayed ??

From the little I know of Caller-ID, the info is sent as a burst of 1200 Baud modem data between the first and second rings. I assume the UK data format is different from other countries' and there are possibly so many different formats, it wouldn't be practical for the exchange to try to decode them all.
That's not the issue. Phone calls are not passed around the network on analogue trunks. The network is digital, with signalling typically using a protocol such as SS7.

In-band tones are only used for analogue end-users. ISDN end-users have caller ID presented to them digitally in the D channel, which carries all ISDN signalling, not the B channel used for the call itself.


The reason international caller ID is not presented to the recipient is because the data received from overseas is not necessarily accurate and, in particular, the instruction to withhold caller ID from the recipient is not necessarily passed correctly, creating privacy and data protection issues. Extensive testing was carried out in the UK to ensure withholding worked correctly before caller ID presentation became available to subscribers.

Junk callers go to great lengths to present spoof caller ID. I believe there are companies selling connections to the phone network with the ability to present spoof caller ID via SS7 as a feature. When the phone network detects obviously wrong caller ID, 'unavailable' is presented to the end-user, though unavailable can arise in other ways (notably calls presented by older equipment that doesn't include any caller ID in the signalling).


I'm going from probably faulty memory of information I've gleaned as a relative outsider in these matters. There are likely to be others reading who have more direct experience of these things.

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 27-Sep-13 18:03:01
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ian72:
The problem with that is that then the customer/resident rings the number back, gets the switchboard and switchboard have absolutely no way of knowing who rang them (especially with thousands of staff in councils). Switchboard get overloaded and customer gets frustrated.

This is the problem with the people who always dial 1471 and call back the number "just in case". People who do that should have an answer phone or voicemail and then the caller leaves a message with contact name and number to call back on.

Calling an individual in a team of 20 (say at a council) is useless, when any of the 20 can help.

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Sold 42/6 - Getting 46/8 - Sync 50 / 9 Mbps @ 470m approx
14 years of broadband (ntl: cable to BT FTTC) - Router: Asus RT-N66U - Modem: Huawei HG612 speedtest

Edited by jchamier (Fri 27-Sep-13 18:03:21)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 27-Sep-13 18:05:26
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
BT Retail apparently charging £1.75pm for 1571 starting in January 2014.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 51.8/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 27-Sep-13 18:06:39
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I think Argos still have cheap answerphones, and you can get DECT systems with built in digital answering. (Me, I get everyone to call the mobile, unlimited minutes and free answerphone!).

James BT Infinity 2 19/09/2012 - Sold 42/6 - Getting 46/8 - Sync 50 / 9 Mbps @ 470m approx
14 years of broadband (ntl: cable to BT FTTC) - Router: Asus RT-N66U - Modem: Huawei HG612 speedtest
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 27-Sep-13 19:53:52
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
People calling mobiles from landlines still pay a silly price. I'm surprised they go along with that.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 51.8/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 27-Sep-13 19:58:02
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
People who do that should have an answer phone or voicemail and then the caller leaves a message with contact name and number to call back on
Except in my experience the caller hardly every does. Only had one sensible voicemail message left since I can't remember when.

BT Infinity 1 (unlimited)
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 27-Sep-13 20:44:56
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: gomezz] [link to this post]
 
Change your friends? tongue

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 51.8/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 27-Sep-13 21:30:47
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
As my friends don't withhold their caller id I fail to see your point?

BT Infinity 1 (unlimited)
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 27-Sep-13 21:38:15
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: gomezz] [link to this post]
 
My point was to do with your post that I replied to, which didn't mention caller ID. Specifically, it said "Only had one sensible voicemail message left since I can't remember when". smile

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 51.8/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User The_Voyager
(committed) Sat 28-Sep-13 08:00:49
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Re: Internet Cutting off when phone rings (OT)


[re: John_ON] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for you answer, maybe the ITU should set a standard for this, so that callerID shows the full number including country code, then you could block 234 smile

Bob WRBRIX
BT Infinity 2 - Fritz! 7390 ~ Sync 79.99/20 Mbits Actual 76.27/19.69 Mbits @ 320m
DialUp to CIX, BT Home Highway+CIX, ADSL1 Nildram, ADSL2 SKY & Be*Unlimited
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