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Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 29-Sep-13 14:20:58
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Re: BT Broadband & Phone - Price Increase


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
And here's a link to the subsequent High Court decision based on the EEC ruling:
The High Court in London on Friday ruled that Karen Murphy's appeal over using the decoder to bypass controls over match screening must be allowed.
That article was written by someone who doesn't understand the fundamentals of European Union law.

Domestic courts in the Member States are requested and, in some circumstances, compelled to refer doubtful questions of European Union law to the Court of Justice of the European Union (formerly the European Court of Justice) via the so-called reference procedure (Article 267 Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union). The CJEU is the the final arbiter on points of EU law (established in a long line of case law leading back to the seminal Van Gend case - Van Gend en Loos v Nederlandse Administratie der Belastingen (case 26/62) [1963] ECR 1).


In other words, the landlady didn't take her case to the CJEU, the UK did, and the involvement of the CJEU was an integrated part of one legal process rather than an extra step. When the case came to the High Court, the High Court framed the novel question of EU law and referred that to the CJEU using the Article 267 TFEU procedure, then was compelled to decide the case by implementing the CJEU's definitive ruling. There was only one forum within which the EU law matters could be fully explored, which was the CJEU.

Had the CJEU ruled previously on the same set of facts, the High Court would have been free to follow the previous CJEU ruling rather than re-refer the matter, even though the CJEU doesn't operate a formal system of binding precedent.

On very rare occasions, a domestic court finds a way to squirm round the edges of a potentially relevant CJEU ruling, usually by ruling there is a material (but maybe illusory) difference in the facts which invalidates the applicability of the CJEU ruling. It is rare for a domestic court to hold they are not bound by a seemingly relevant CJEU ruling, and extremely rare when the CJEU ruling came from referral of the case being decided. In other words, the High Court finding in this case was essentially a rubber stamping of the CJEU's decision.

This case does illustrate that those who say the EU always acts to restrict freedoms - indeed the EU is built on four key freedoms (freedom of movement of goods, services, capital and workers).


The primacy of the CJEU is to ensure legal certainty. If Member States were free to follow their own interpretation of EU law, then EU law would not be applied uniformly across the EU and nobody would know where they stood.


The author of the BBC piece probably got mixed up with the European Court of Human Rights. Making an individual petition to the ECtHR is an optional extra step once all domestic appeals have been exhausted. The ECtHR and the European Convention on Human Rights are instruments of the Council of Europe, not the EU, and several non-EU countries, notably including Russia, have ratified the ECHR and participate in the ECtHR processes. The UK was very involved in drafting the ECHR and one of the first to ratify it, in 1951.

The only direct links between the EU and ECHR are that it is mandatory for EU members to ratify the ECHR and participate in the ECtHR processes, also the EU itself has ratified the ECHR.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 29-Sep-13 14:22:17
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Re: BT Broadband & Phone - Price Increase


[re: professor973] [link to this post]
 
I will repeat we are not involved with any resizing of images hosted by external sites

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Sun 29-Sep-13 14:33:33
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Re: BT Broadband & Phone - Price Increase


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
And if these price increases will affect those who have been been on the same calling plan for several years ,as well as new customers,

Then they will certainly be loosing a lot of customers...


That includes me: I had a loyalty/retention evening and weekend 12 months contract with a line rental charge of £12.65 per month ("calling plan at a special rate" which included free caller ID etc.) At the end of the contract the monthly charge would have been increased to £18.75 on a monthly rolling contract and they would not negotiate a lower price monthly charge, so I left!


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Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sun 29-Sep-13 14:35:48
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Re: BT Broadband & Phone - Price Increase


[re: hypertony] [link to this post]
 
Free caller display
Seems to suggest that existing BT privacy customers can continue to get caller display free for 12mths But they will have to register for it, which will mean a new 12mth term for line rental ,So to avoid any price hikes for the next 12mths ditch the 1571 voice mail (unless that is free for 12mths too)
get line rental saver (stay on existing call plan) before jan 14 and register or pre register for free caller display ,as long as you are a BT pricacy customer there shouldn't be any problems, except maybe for the voice mail, they may say that its part of bt privacy and you have to have it should it not be included with the free caller display offer

Edited by tommy45 (Sun 29-Sep-13 14:48:40)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 29-Sep-13 14:39:13
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Re: BT Broadband & Phone - Price Increase *DELETED*


[re: professor973] [link to this post]
 
Post removed due to the amount of popups and offer issues, and question mark over whether site and its software app have permission to link to what may be free streams but supplied without without rights holders permission

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sun 29-Sep-13 15:09:24
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Re: BT Broadband & Phone - Price Increase *DELETED*


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
According to the links I supplied, the court has ruled that there is no copyright in the matches themselves.


__________________________________________________________________________a bit harsh and a tad childish__________________
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 29-Sep-13 16:32:04
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Re: BT Broadband & Phone - Price Increase


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
I will repeat we are not involved with any resizing of images hosted by external sites
Somebody does seem to be missing the obvious points that the links he posted include .../scaled/800x600/... , clearly instructing the image hosting site to resize his images to 800x600.

Standard User rich_jtg
(regular) Sun 29-Sep-13 16:48:24
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Re: BT Broadband & Phone - Price Increase


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Although if you've paid 12 months up front (Live Rental Saver), presumably you can't then sign up for another 12 months half-way though.
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Sun 29-Sep-13 17:34:49
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Re: BT Broadband & Phone - Price Increase


[re: rich_jtg] [link to this post]
 
I suppose that you could, but you would loose any remaining unused credit ,as they wouldn't let you buy another 12 mths in advance, But from the info on the bt web site, to me it reads that if you are already a existing BT privacy customer, you can still get the caller display for 12mths free after the 4th Jan 14, So if your current line rental saver doesn't end until after this date then it should not matter,But it's best to check with someone in BT via e-mail or post, as then you have it in writing , and don't have to deal with the script monkeys that are all but useless

I know one thing , I'm not prepared to pay more for caller display or 1571, as they already charge the highest price for line rental even with LRS Wouldn't call it cheap Nor do i see why i should have to subsidise BT sport should i remain with BT

And Caller display IMO should be a free service offered by all telecoms suppliers as it's part of the service anyway, i can't see that it in any way costs BT more should CLI be enabled or not So why do they charge other SP's for it as presumably they do?

Edited by tommy45 (Sun 29-Sep-13 17:39:17)

Standard User rich_jtg
(regular) Sun 29-Sep-13 17:54:08
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Re: BT Broadband & Phone - Price Increase


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for that Tommy. I'm waiting to see what is said by BT - if they get around to letting us all know officially.

Totally agree regarding the price of line rental and caller display, and will be looking elsewhere once the 12 months is up.
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