User comments on ISPs
  >> BT Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User Oscar2013
(newbie) Fri 15-Nov-13 12:20:44
Print Post

Query about BT Broadband service & contract


[link to this post]
 
Hello everyone,

I have used Broadband for a decade now and only just joined a broadband forum, a little lacking on my behalf perhaps. I am now gaining an interest in what happens beyond my router apart from keeping an eye on my upload and download speeds. So coming across your forum I thought I better see what some more experienced people with Broadband knew. After BT I’ve had good service, initially from Phonecoop and currently Sky. I have not used BT for several years. When I had the opportunity to leave – I did.

So it may seem a little strange that my first question is for someone else smile You will see why he cannot post anything himself.

A friend of mine moved house about ten months ago, unfortunately none of what is described below came to light until this week otherwise I would have insisted on action much sooner.

He wanted a phone line so contacted BT and a line was provided. This is his first BT account as previously he was sharing a house and the phone line there was billed to another resident. It came up in conversation that he had actually been paying for broadband service even though he does not use, or need broadband, no computer, PVR or similar, in fact has only recently got a smart phone. I asked what have you done with the router then? He answered what’s that and then once I explained what a router was he said he had never had one.

Apart from the obvious things like he is a wally for paying too much for a voice only service and that fact he must never check the bills. It left me wondering, would he be eligible to claim back the broadband part of the bill for the last 10 months? Is this a case of mis-selling as he did not need a broadband service, (not yet anyway) and if BT have not provided the equipment there is presumably a breach of contract as there is no means of using the service being paid for?

From the BT side they would be able to see no router activation and therefore no data usage. Would this not be a little strange for a broadband account?

Any thoughts on this matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Fri 15-Nov-13 12:55:28
Print Post

Re: Query about BT Broadband service & contract


[re: Oscar2013] [link to this post]
 
Why didn't he check his blls?


______________________________________________________________________________________Go_girl!__________________
Standard User Oscar2013
(newbie) Fri 15-Nov-13 13:04:23
Print Post

Re: Query about BT Broadband service & contract


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Do you remember the TV series Sorry! This guy is Timothy Lumsden smile

My guess he either didn't, some people trust BT to get it right.

Or he just didn't know what he was looking at blush


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 15-Nov-13 13:20:32
Print Post

Re: Query about BT Broadband service & contract


[re: Oscar2013] [link to this post]
 
If they had signed up for BT then a router have been sent out and probably letter or two talking about broadband, so unless they also ignored a 'we tried to deliver' notice from a courier then seems odd.

First thing to do is go back through the various bills and determine what they are actually paying for, rather than what they think they may be paying for.

As for miss selling all depends on what was said/done during the sales process, and in this case if the descriptions are correct probably not a lot that can be done.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Fri 15-Nov-13 14:18:21
Print Post

Re: Query about BT Broadband service & contract


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Have to say if the person is as clueless as the posts suggest he probably has got the router somewhere or binned it not knowing what it was.

Also, no solid evidence as to what exactly the person has been paying for. I would want to know exactly what the line items and prices are on the bill.
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 15-Nov-13 14:29:14
Print Post

Re: Query about BT Broadband service & contract


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I agree, Andrew. If the OP's friend accepted BT's offer of service by mistake, but had every opportunity to acquaint himself with what he was buying, he likely has no right to a remedy under contract law.

Moreover, the delay in acting is relevant to the duty to mitigate loss, also it could be argued the delay in acting amounts to accepting the situation.


The best thing the OP's friend can do is get hold of a router, set up the connection and enjoy it with his smartphone. If he doesn't want home broadband, he should cancel at the expiry of the minimum contract period (likely to be 12 or 18 months).


Misselling is a topic that has been quite prominent in recent years, but the major misselling scandals have been over regulated financial products (PPI, card protection insurance etc.) where there are specific remedies possible via the regulatory system. There are regulations to do with unfair trading, but they are unlikely to offer any remedy to an individual on the given facts.

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 15-Nov-13 14:36:30
Print Post

Re: Query about BT Broadband service & contract


[re: Oscar2013] [link to this post]
 
How does he know that he has / is paying for BB, if it just 'came up in conversation'?

Knowing his name, address, a/c no & phone no., you can register him on MyBT and check it.

Maybe when he ordered phone, they also offered 'broad band' and he agreed thinking it was a faster phone line grin.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 15-Nov-13 14:40:31
Print Post

Re: Query about BT Broadband service & contract


[re: Oscar2013] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oscar2013:
Or he just didn't know what he was looking at blush

Perhaps he thought BT gives out a free door-stop with every line rental contract.

Oliver.
Standard User Oscar2013
(newbie) Sun 17-Nov-13 09:32:45
Print Post

Re: Query about BT Broadband service & contract


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the replies,

He noticed he was paying for broadband on his last bill. I happened to be there the next day and it got mentioned. I never though about asking to see what he was propping the back door open with smile

I did ask about the router and double check that nothing had been delivered that we was not sure what it was or an attempt had been made to deliverer and a card had been left asking for re-delivery.

It seems to me that BT and 'Timothy' are equally at fault. He must have signed for the contract, but BT have failed to provide the service. In any company I have worked for if a package has come back, (i.e. the router) it is then queried. If BT have had the router back from a failed delivery, they know that the customer is not using it, therefore how can they charge for the service? Perhaps as one of those elusive 'gestures of goodwill' BT may waive half of the Broadband part of the bill up to now and then take it off at the end of the contract year.

Unless like you say uses the 'smarter than he is phone' on the router when it finally arrives.
Standard User StephenTodd
(experienced) Sun 17-Nov-13 09:47:04
Print Post

Re: Query about BT Broadband service & contract


[re: Oscar2013] [link to this post]
 
they know that the customer is not using it, therefore how can they charge for the service?

Many customers use the service without using the BT provided router.

--
Moved (with trepidation turned relief) to BT Infinity 2 for upload speed. Happy BE user for several years.
Standard User David_W
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 17-Nov-13 12:17:41
Print Post

Re: Query about BT Broadband service & contract


[re: Oscar2013] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oscar2013:
It seems to me that BT and 'Timothy' are equally at fault. He must have signed for the contract, but BT have failed to provide the service.
The service is on the line for him to use, and has been from the beginning of the contract.

He can use any ADSL hardware he likes - BT Retail use genetic user names and passwords.


As I said in my earlier reply, mistake does not entitle a party to contractual remedies. The law recognises that some people are incapable of entering into a binding contract as they lack the mental capacity to do so, but the Mental Capacity Act 2005 standard for incapacity is high and a contract is only voidable if the counterparty should have known the person lacked capacity (or the person's affairs were under the Court of Protection).

I don't think we're talking here about an MCA 2005 situation - just someone who was maybe a little naive and who failed to check their contractual paperwork and bills carefully. Unless I've misunderstood the scenario and the MCA 2005 potentially applies, the person had ample opportunity to realise a long time ago that they were paying for broadband and could have contacted BT Retail about the matter. They did not do so, and BT Retail continued to incur wholesale costs in providing the broadband service.

The law on distance selling provides the remedy for misunderstanding or mistake when entering into a contract for service at a distance, though the right to cancel under these regulations can be curtailed when the provider has taken steps to arrange provision (in which case they should draw your attention to the limited right to cancel).


The OP's friend could seek a gesture of goodwill, but I would expect BT Retail to resist this. Unless the MCA 2005 applies, BT Retail have every right to enforce the contract, they have incurred costs in providing the service and they have no obligation to protect consumers from their own voluntary acts.

If the OP's friend has been stupid and naive, he should, in my view, take this as a relatively cheap and low consequence lesson that contractual commitments are binding and rights to cancel disappear unless you take timely action. Making a mistake in connection with something like a financial product could be immensely costly - if you discover something wrong with a motor insurance policy when something has gone wrong, it could cost you a £200 fine, 6 points, significantly more expensive insurance in the future, the loss of the premium and personal liability for any losses that would have been covered by the policy if all the details were correct.

Standard User Oscar2013
(newbie) Fri 22-Nov-13 00:38:11
Print Post

Re: Query about BT Broadband service & contract


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
Hello again,

I think I have to agree with all your points. 'Timothy' has been slow on the uptake shall we say smile. As stated, in the big scheme of things, just the Broadband part of the bill is small compared to insurance errors or poor financial advice that could literally wipe out a lifetimes saving. I for one would not pay for a service and wonder about it nine or ten months later! My only question with regards BT side of this matter is their lack of provision of the service. Yes I agree people can and do use alternative equipment than that supplied by their respective ISP. For instance I have never used ISP supplied equipment until my current ISP. Yet the contract is for provision of services and equipment to allow use of that service, well at least the broadband side, long gone are the days when a 706 was provided at the end of the phone line wink

BT have supplied a service and if it is like the 'Broadband' being advertised currently, it comes with BT Sport app and online player, Unlimited wi-fi, BT SmartTalk, BT Family Protection, BT Home Hub 4, 2GB BT Cloud. BT did not supply a home hub which I assume they said they would in the contract at the beginning. BT will therefore have failed to let the customer use the broadband service. If the H.H. did go out for delivery and come back, they have an unfulfilled order on the system. It is their job to fulfil that order, not just sit back and hope the customer does their job for them. I would think it poor where BT to say the broadband was available to use but you decided not to use it.

‘Timothy’ should have done something about much sooner AND BT should have provided the equipment, hence my suggestions BT refund half the Broadband element from the bill.

Anyway, the last thing I heard from him (apart fom he has definitely not had a H.H. or an attempted delivery of one either) is he is thinking of doing away with the phone line completely. I’ll see him next week, ( happy happy joy joy blush ).

Thanks,
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 22-Nov-13 01:00:18
Print Post

Re: Query about BT Broadband service & contract


[re: Oscar2013] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oscar2013:
My only question with regards BT side of this matter is their lack of provision of the service.
There is no reason to believe that BT has failed to provide the billed BB service. They would have connected his phone line to their DSLAM in the exchange and as far as they are concerned it was ready for him to use or not as he desired.

As for the 'absent' router, if he is lax / 'slow on the uptake' with his deliveries or 'could not deliver - pop in to local Delivery Office to collect' cards as he is with checking his phone bill, than the router could be anywhere other than back at BT.

No, he has not a leg to stand on unless BT in their generosity, seeing he has consumed not a single Byte since installation, allow him a gratuity payment. Other than that he should be thankful that he has learnt a fairly cheap lesson to be more careful in future.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to