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Standard User bd10
(newbie) Thu 13-Feb-14 21:37:16
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Speed below predicted


[link to this post]
 
Hi,

Had BT Infinity 2 installed recently with a predicted downstream range of 79-80 Mb on the address checker with 19-20 Mb upstream. I thought this may not be perfectly accurate so I was expecting around 70 Mb.
After 4 days the checker now has the predictions for my phone line as shown below:

High Low High Low
FTTC Range A (Clean) 80 77 20 19.9 -- Available
FTTC Range B (Impacted) 80 67.3 20 17.9 -- Available

My current speedtest speeds are around 52 Mb down and 13 up. Home Hub 5 stats currently show:
6. Data rate: 13496 / 56831
7. Maximum data rate: 15886 / 57015
8. Noise margin: 5.6 / 6.5
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 12.5
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 12.7

I know that the modem shouldn't be restarted at all in the first 10 days if possible but the engineer didn't make this clear to my brother who then restarted it once due to wifi issues on the first day. I wasn't in during the install so I am unsure of the initial speed and I am guessing this low speed is a case of DLM kicking in. Could there be anything else wrong with the install or anything I can do to or should I just leave the Home Hub alone for a few days and see if speeds improve. Also, because the modem was reset so early in the 10 day period how long can I expect to wait for the speeds to return to normal, if at all.

Another thing I noticed is that even after this restart the line still seemed to have no interleaving until today (uptime resets to 0 every night so I am assuming it is testing a new profile). I don't know much about this so I am just wondering if that also had anything to do with restarting it so early.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Thu 13-Feb-14 22:53:10
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
It may have been poorly installed, take a read through this thread, and try some of the steps the OP has, as in checking that removal of the NTE faceplate kills dial tone on ALL other points in the house.

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 14-Feb-14 01:36:09
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
The 10 days if it applies to anything only applies to ADSLx. Unfortunately BT Wholesale themselves don't even seem to realise that. The system that depends on 10 days to set a particular pair of figures for the line isn't used on FTTC frown.

If the DLM has kicked in, it is because of considerable errors on the line. Your brother restarting the modem on the first day, as long as he didn't do it lots of times, will not have caused any problems. You do mean the modem I assume, not the Home Hub?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.


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Standard User bd10
(newbie) Fri 14-Feb-14 08:49:33
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Just found out a few things yesterday:
-Install was done by Kelly's
-Home Hub was restarted a total of 3 times over the first 2 days, would this be enough to cause such a big speed drop?

Thanks for the help, are there any other steps I should take or just look through the linked thread and try everything first?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 14-Feb-14 09:59:16
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
If the line was showing other errors then it may have...alas the DLM is not a beast of certainties.

Do the checks as suggested to ensure you have no other wiring connected.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User bd10
(newbie) Fri 14-Feb-14 12:00:40
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In response to Roberto, by modem I mean the home hub 5, I was under the impression that because it now contains the modem a restart of the hub would include a restart of the modem?

Sorry, I am not very educated on the phone line/socket part of this so the instructions in that thread are not very clear to me. From what I can gather I am meant to:

-Power off hub
-Unscrew bottom part of faceplate
-Plug phone into any other sockets in the house and see if there is a dialling tone

Would this be correct?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 14-Feb-14 13:18:58
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
Correct

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/faceplate/ shows how the faceplate comes apart

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User bd10
(newbie) Fri 14-Feb-14 13:59:53
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Just carried out the steps and no dialling tones anywhere. I do however have a socket in my room which I decided I no longer needed and so the wire was cut somewhere in the middle. Could this have anything to do with it?

EDIT: Some extra info on wiring just incase:
Have 2 sockets by front door (one normal size, one smaller) and one in my room upstairs which were originally used for BT ADSL before I moved to Virgin. Moved router to first floor during this time so had new faceplate put on the first floor as well.

Edited by bd10 (Fri 14-Feb-14 15:35:25)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 14-Feb-14 17:00:17
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
If the Home Hub is connected directly to the VDSL socket then yes, you are using its built-in modem. Rebooting it will cause a disconnection and reconnection. I wouldn't expect three to cause any upset.

If there is a white box between the Home Hub and the VDSL socket, connected to the Home Hub WAN port then that white box is the modem and the built-in one is bypassed. Rebooting the Home Hub would cause your internet connection to be disconnected and reconnected, but would not cause the "VDSL2 broadband" connection to the cabinet to be disconnected. So in that case the DLM wouldn't know.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 14-Feb-14 17:59:01
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
If that wiring is still active when the faceplate has been removed, then those wires may be acting as a bridge tap and picking up interference.

Needs lots of photos to make that wiring clear, the sockets can all be correct but a split pair that would work but be more prone to pick up noise may be the issue.

Believe the full testing at install should pick that up.

Perfect world is the master socket and VDSL modem as close to the entry point on the property and minimal telephone wiring in the rest of the property.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User bd10
(newbie) Fri 14-Feb-14 18:03:39
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
What sort of photos are you looking for? I can try and get some up this evening.

If this is the problem will I be able to do anything myself or should I request an engineer?
Standard User bd10
(newbie) Mon 17-Feb-14 23:22:51
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
Any help?

Sorry I haven't got any pictures up I am still unsure which ones exactly are needed to make it clear and I haven't yet figured out where the extension socket goes when it leaves the house.

Speeds still haven't improved and are far out of both Range A and B. Would it be worth reporting this to BT?

Edited by bd10 (Mon 17-Feb-14 23:23:15)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 17-Feb-14 23:45:10
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
Chicken and egg situation.

Some pictures showing what you think is the master and how it is wired will be a start

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Tue 18-Feb-14 00:48:24
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Mine is estimated 79.9 down and 20.0 up and getting sync rate of 79987/19999 as BT Openreach engineer removed all wiring in the back of master socket and threw it away. Replaced brand new master socket with grey cable behind the terminal end and he cut half of it, put two wiring in the back of the socket A & B and then plugged in MK2 as there is no wiring behind faceplate.

plusnetFTTC72 Meg

Edited by adslmax (Tue 18-Feb-14 00:51:48)

Standard User bd10
(newbie) Tue 18-Feb-14 11:40:45
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
http://imgur.com/a/0S9AK

Some interior pictures, let me know if any more are needed or perhaps some exterior shots.
Standard User lexden16
(member) Tue 18-Feb-14 12:41:07
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bd10:
http://imgur.com/a/0S9AK

Some interior pictures, let me know if any more are needed or perhaps some exterior shots.


Great pictures but where is the modem connection in relation to all these wires and connection boxes? Seriously, not trying to be rude, but it looks a bit like a 'dogs breakfast' of wires and faceplates. Not the sort of thing that BB likes. I am not sure that it it is something that BT will fix without a charge.

Edited by lexden16 (Tue 18-Feb-14 12:45:06)

Standard User bd10
(newbie) Tue 18-Feb-14 12:48:16
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: lexden16] [link to this post]
 
By modem connection do you mean home hub?

Also, I know it really is a mess but I had to get my mother to be at home during the install and she isn't very technical at all. I was hoping the engineer who installed it would have known or suggested what you said but apparently not. Would they really say that this was my fault? If they insist then I probably wouldn't have a problem paying for it if it means I actually get the speeds that I should.

Edited by bd10 (Tue 18-Feb-14 12:49:31)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 18-Feb-14 12:49:20
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: lexden16] [link to this post]
 
Modem is probably safe assumption on the end of the RJ11 lead into the top of the MK2 faceplate

Picture 2 - what is the white cable running under the Openreach socket.
Picture 3 - is that the same single cable as from the Openreach socket? Looks like maybe two cables.
Picture 4 - looks like two cables heading into a junction box
Picture 5 - a lot hinges on what is happening inside this Virgin box
Does the wire then head to picture 6

To me it looks like house was rewired for Virgin, and maybe then rewired again for BT. When the openreach faceplate is removed do any of sockets work for a telephone?

Looks very like the master socket is a fair way from where the openreach entry point is to the property, and one split pair in that wiring could impact on your actual speed.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User bd10
(newbie) Tue 18-Feb-14 12:56:20
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Just want to say I'm really grateful for the help.

Picture 2 - White cable goes to security alarm.
Pictures 3 and 4 - The other white cable is old Virgin cable going to superhub.
Picture 5 - Would it be safe to maybe take that box down and get some pictures of what's behind/inside?

I will test the sockets this afternoon.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 18-Feb-14 14:18:21
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
The security alarm - is it connected to the phone line? If so where.

Alarms need a dedicated filter, otherwise they impact on broadband performance when wired to a telephone line.

The virgin box should be just a passive device with no power so safe to remove cover and peek.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User bd10
(newbie) Tue 18-Feb-14 15:30:37
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
http://imgur.com/a/lUt49

Pictures of inside box.
Standard User jw6520
(regular) Tue 18-Feb-14 16:19:05
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
Looks to me like the TV cable from outside connects to an isolator (separates the internal / external cabling and protects from hazardous voltages from being transferred to in-home
installations). The other cable I assume would be the cable telephone line which appears to be crimped to the internal wiring for the telephone??
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Tue 18-Feb-14 17:15:32
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
What a mess!

The incoming Orange and White are a pair and they are connected to the internal Bl/Wh & Wh/Bl which is fine. A little concerned about the fact that there is a few millimetres of insulation stripped off the two wires though.

And the proximity of the cable isolator to the wires could cause some interference especially as it appears not to be earthed - even though teh diagram shows and earth connection.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 18-Feb-14 18:59:00
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: jw6520] [link to this post]
 
Could be the cable telephone line, or it heads around home to join somewhere to the Openreach phone line.

Now to trace where this what looks to be a black external cable heads to.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User bd10
(newbie) Wed 19-Feb-14 11:56:05
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
https://imgur.com/a/KHx9s

Traced the black cable. I don't believe the security alarm is connected to the phone line and I still can't figure out where the extension socket goes when it leaves the house, maybe it joins up to something behind the wall?
Standard User bd10
(newbie) Thu 20-Feb-14 22:23:37
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
So it has now been more than the claimed '10 days' and still no improvement (not that I expected anything). Would it be worth at all ringing BT about this just to stop hassling everyone here tongue, or is there anywhere else I could get help from?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 20-Feb-14 22:50:01
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
If the alarm is connected to the phone line in such a way that it is before the faceplate then that will be the culprit.

The black cable outside looks like BT stuff, and the black round box is meant to be a weather proof joint, i.e. closed not open.

So question stands as I don't think its being answered, if you remove the VDSL faceplate, do any other telephone sockets work in the property? If not then phones are OK. If the alarm still thinks there is a phone line connected then an ADSL filter needs to be fitted. Depending on the alarm and its rules it may need the alarm people to visit or you can get someone else to fit it

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User bd10
(newbie) Thu 20-Feb-14 22:57:03
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Sorry for missing some of your questions. In terms of phones none of the other sockets (that I know of) work but I did mention the old extension which was cut in the middle as I thought it might still be affecting the line in some way if it was simply just cut.

The alarm is actually no longer active (wasn't confident about stating this on a forum, hopefully nobody can work out where I live haha) but again like the old virgin wiring the wiring for it is still up. Could it still be causing a problem?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 20-Feb-14 23:00:41
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
If the alarm is connected to the bt wiring and not turned on it may still have an effect, and similarly with the cut wiring.

Sounds like you need to do some removing of old wiring that is no longer needed to be sure its not connected to the BT phone line, or get someone out to do a thorough check. The wiring may have no effect, but impossible to give a 100% answer either way, without actually being there to see it all.

BT won't do that for free.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User bd10
(newbie) Thu 20-Feb-14 23:14:35
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
That's fine, thanks for the help and suggestions. I'll work on getting all the old wiring out first and report back after, unless I have any more questions about the process or the wiring.
Standard User bd10
(newbie) Fri 21-Feb-14 22:53:30
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
Just one more quick question, what should I be looking for during this for any hints if anything was actually impacting my broadband. Following the entire line from computer to telephone pole today I see that the wire simply goes from master socket down the stairs outside house behind virgin box and up to telephone pole. I guess what I'm basically asking is in what ways could the other wiring actually be affecting this and would I need to necessarily call someone out for help with any of the things that could be a problem. I'm going to start removing all the old wiring tomorrow and this should be my last question before then but I like to read around or learn a bit about everything I'm doing so I can help others or myslef fix any similar problems.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 21-Feb-14 23:29:39
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
Old wiring should only effect the current phone line if it is connected to the line, so looking for where extra wiring connects to the line

You need to be sure about what you are removing, as do it wrong and may break the line and land yourself with a BT bill to put it right again

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User bd10
(newbie) Sat 22-Feb-14 11:34:47
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Ah, my point is it looks very much like none of the old wiring is actually connecting to the new wiring as most of the wiring is in plain sight and the only time it isn't is behind the virgin box which I have already looked at.

Also, the isolator appears to be connected to the old incoming virgin cable (the connections at the end are the exact same as the wire from that white box to super hub. Since it doesn't appear to be connected to any BT cabling would it be safe to disconnect the incoming virgin wire?

Edited by bd10 (Sat 22-Feb-14 11:42:45)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 22-Feb-14 13:58:32
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
If the virgin wiring is not used for anything then yes.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User bd10
(newbie) Sun 23-Feb-14 14:15:22
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Ok, so I've removed most of the old wiring including all the virgin wiring. I left some up because it was either to awkward or difficult to remove it and I'm pretty sure none of the old wiring actually connects to the new wiring anyway. Also disconnected the isolator in the virgin box and still no change in speed. Any advice on what my next steps should be? I am trying to find others with similar problems because I realise I am asking a lot of questions.
Standard User bd10
(newbie) Sat 01-Mar-14 14:09:11
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
Any help? Sorry to be a hassle but I've had no progress since last week and I've run out of ideas.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 01-Mar-14 14:58:16
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Re: Speed below predicted


[re: bd10] [link to this post]
 
It may simply be that there is enough cross talk to slow you down, or the DLM saw errors early on and slowed you done, or the estimate from the checker is wrong.

So if wiring is pristine in the house, you've pretty much exhausted things, beyond buying different VDSL2 modems to see if one gives a better speed

The key point is that when you are given an estimate to treat it as such. Cannot remember if you have measured out the distance to the cabinet to see if current speeds roughly match line length

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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