Greedy BT

Not sure what a good legal eagle would make of it, but BT seem to be sailing close to the wind with their contracts to me. Their early termination terms seem to be taking the juice. Their "If you've paid £141 in advance for 12 months line rental, we can't refund this as it was a special discount for paying up front" seems cheeky. How come they can charge early exit fees if they are keeping a years rental, which ties the customer to paying the rental as per contract. To my mind, if they then wish not to take it, it's no grounds for a cash grab. They can't be tied in financially and penalised at the same time for not being tied in. As with their 20p for every 1471, 1571, call connection and per minute billing - Pure greed.

Edited by professor973 (Tue 11-Mar-14 21:20:32)

In reply to a post by professor973:

As with their 20p for every 1471, 1571, call connection

I still don't know where you get this from. Those calls are free.

1571 is no longer free, the answer 1571 basic service costs £1.75 per month , not sure if they also charge to access your messages

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 12-Mar-14 01:05:38)

In reply to a post by professor973:

How come they can charge early exit fees if they are keeping a years rental, which ties the customer to paying the rental as per contract.

They don't. The early termination rates are for unpaid months only and are instead of what would otherwise have been paid if service was continued.

In reply to a post by professor973:

As with their 20p for every 1471, 1571, call connection and per minute billing - Pure greed.

It's free to dial 1471 and 1571.

In reply to a post by tommy45:

the answer 1571 basic service costs £1.75 per month

Yes, it is common knowledge that there is now a monthly fee for 1571 but 1471 is free under an annual contract.

However what I've queried twice with the Prof is where he gets 20p for actually calling these service numbers. There is no such charge; the calls are still free.

He maybe means the callback charge if you dial 3 to return the call

Page 24 here confirms a 19.9p charge for callback on 1471 and 1571 but they are free to call (although 1571 only available with the £1.75 per month fee)

In reply to a post by vimto_girl:

In reply to a post by professor973:

How come they can charge early exit fees if they are keeping a years rental, which ties the customer to paying the rental as per contract.

They don't. The early termination rates are for unpaid months only and are instead of what would otherwise have been paid if service was continued.

In reply to a post by professor973:

As with their 20p for every 1471, 1571, call connection and per minute billing - Pure greed.

It's free to dial 1471 and 1571.

I've seen your know it all answers before. I have a bill here detailing the charges above. Get up to date.

I get it from A BILL I AM HOLDING IN MY HAND!

In reply to a post by tommy45:

1571 is no longer free, the answer 1571 basic service costs £1.75 per month , not sure if they also charge to access your messages

Yes, 20p for each access.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Page 24 here confirms a 19.9p charge for callback on 1471 and 1571 but they are free to call (although 1571 only available with the £1.75 per month fee)

Well done Sir! - Nearly right. Not free to call. As my sig used to say - 'Fora - Where everybody knows everything ... and everyone else knows nothing' ... With the notable exception of your self!
If many above were actually at the mercy of a BT bill, they would know.

Edited by professor973 (Wed 12-Mar-14 09:40:29)

Another round of BT bashing.
I have no problem with my bill. I take advantage of contract discounts when it suits and expect penalties for early exit. BT are not the only ones, they all do it.
BT is swings and roundabouts for me and overall service has been good and acceptable cost.

Another round of BT bashing.

No - Just stating facts.

I take advantage of contract discounts when it suits and expect penalties for early exit. BT are not the only ones, they all do it.

Wrong - Another incorrect sweeping statement. neither of my suppliers have contract tie-in and a better far cheaper service.

BT is swings and roundabouts for me and overall service has been good and acceptable cost.

If you are happy to pay their price for their service, it's entirely up to you. An example of the competition - Unlimited Broadband, Line & unlimited calls and 1,000 mobile minutes for £26 all in per month from Orange. Half of BT price. Or Zen will give you 5,000 minutes for around the cost of BT line rental, with no tie-in or 60 minute call limit .... Just sayin'

They are free to call, but if you start a telephone call directly from the call option as part of the call there is a charge.

Option to hang up and dial the number yourself and get it from call bundle I presume is available?

Ideal for the disabled poorly sighted person I am helping to move from one nightmare to a cheaper one. Paperless billing and etc don't help with keeping up with price changes.

No, my post is 100% right. There is no 20p fee to call those numbers. There is a 19.9p fee if you use the callback service after you have called the number, but as MrS says you don't have to and can just hang up and call the number yourself.

In reply to a post by professor973:

I get it from A BILL I AM HOLDING IN MY HAND!

But your line rental isn't with BT? Someone else's bill?

And I have a residential bill with NO 1471 or 1571 charges listed.

I also have a BT Business bill online and again - NO charges for 1471 or 1571.

I certainly use 1471 very frequently and also 1571 occasionally.

In reply to a post by professor973:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

1571 is no longer free, the answer 1571 basic service costs £1.75 per month , not sure if they also charge to access your messages

Yes, 20p for each access.

WRONG

In reply to a post by professor973:

In reply to a post by professor973:

As with their 20p for every 1471, 1571, call connection and per minute billing - Pure greed.

It's free to dial 1471 and 1571.

I've seen your know it all answers before. I have a bill here detailing the charges above. Get up to date.

A touch harsh on yourself, but glad you've seen sense.

Trappy [censored]

Well done Bob! - I would post a link to the bill if imageshack were not charging now. Andrew knows where I am, as he has helped the lady I am helping. Orange been down all afternoon. Three hours on the phone to overseas morons, though up and running now with a promise to lift banding.

In reply to a post by MHC:

In reply to a post by professor973:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

1571 is no longer free, the answer 1571 basic service costs £1.75 per month , not sure if they also charge to access your messages

Yes, 20p for each access.

WRONG

IDIOT

And I am being assured ring-back was never used on these 1471 calls. I have the bill in front of me with charges on detailed for 1471, not callback. I am also not so stupid not to know of the BT ring-back ripoff. The user has switched to total morons now, so glad I pay what I do for a decent service.

Edited by professor973 (Wed 12-Mar-14 18:27:24)

In reply to a post by professor973:

I take advantage of contract discounts when it suits and expect penalties for early exit. BT are not the only ones, they all do it.

Wrong - Another incorrect sweeping statement. neither of my suppliers have contract tie-in and a better far cheaper service.

You are not reading correctly.
If you enter a contract and end early, An early exit charge will be applied.

If a 1471 or 1571 charge appears on an invoice it will be a return charge. I use these all time and no mention is ever on bill. I note number and then make call.

As for cost, When BT Sport and Wifi ( Hot Spot ) access on move is charged, Then I may be over paying. Until then it is awings and roundabouts depending on personal usage

In reply to a post by professor973:

IDIOT

Obviously defining yourself.



Calls to 1471 are FREE and if you bother to check the latest BT Tariff Guide (23rd Feb 2014) page 24 it lists the calls as FREE.

In reply to a post by professor973:

And I am being assured ring-back was never used on these 1471 calls.

I wonder if the lady concerned actually realises that keying 5 "To return the call" is what is meant by "ring-back", and is therefore giving you the wrong answer.

If someone says to me "I'll ring you back", I believe they would dial my number when they did so. She may just be confused, and confirming that she didn't dial. As Ian72 says, those are charges for "Call Return"

CHILDISH [censored]

Yes, I realise all the above Bob, but only have the charges on the bill and her word to go by, all of which is small beer compared to the nightmare incompetence of Orange.

You are wrong, you know you are wrong, other posters point out you are wrong. You make false accusations about BT.

Then you start name calling ...

Why can you not accept you are wrong?

If she is certain that she hasn't used ring-back then she should complain to BT (ringing BT from a BT landline is free) and she can point to their own published charges to show she should not have been charged for making the initial calls. Perhaps it is a BT billing error that others are not seeing?

Maybe she is just scared of him.

Well if you are fool enough to call 1471/1571 for free and then do a Call Return from them that they offer you and warn you of the charge, instead of ringing off and dialing the # yourself, you've only got yourself to blame. It was your choice to spend the 20ps.

It wasn't prof that called them and the person that did appears to either be unaware or to have been mis-charged for the calls.

Quote from 1471: 'Telephone # xxxxxxxxxx called on the 27 Feb @ 18:27 hours. To return the call press 3. There is normally a charge for the service.'

Yes, but it is the Prof that is misleading the person that made the Call Returns.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Yes, but it is the Prof that is misleading the person that made the Call Returns.

There is still a possibility that BT have just cocked up the billing for the individual in question. Personally I think it more likely that they didn't understand the billing or the warnings on the call - we have virtually no information on the person who has the bill.

I don't thnk he is misleading her. I think she misunderstands the terminology used and has as a result given the wrong answer to his question. As I described earlier.

Wake up man! It's not my a/c we are talking about, so I did NO dialing

I have stated previously, that she is disabled and partially sighted. She is also dyslexic which does not help, though she insists she does not use call return because of the cost. Also, she was not even aware of recent new charges and increases till she got a higher bill. Says she was never informed and has paperless billing. I know I used to get a booklet with BT bills advising of the latest cash grab. I should mention that BT did offer to repay these charges, an offer they withdrew when she wanted to move. Now they are sitting on banding for ten days just to be [censored] minded.

I NEVER throw the first stone when it comes to name calling or being rude. It's just that I will not put up with personal attacks.

EXACTLY So how the hell could anyone with half a brain NOT be aware, especially someone that specifically avoids them on cost.

Go back to sleep, laddie! You were the one who brought the matter here and misrepresented the bill as yours. Does it really matter whose bill it is? You are still misrepresenting the 20p charges as the normal call charge to 1471/1571, despite everyone telling you that the 20p is only when you choose to make a Call Return using these services.

As I stated earlier, these charges were chased and a refund offered. An offer that was quickly withdrawn when the customer stated they wanted to move. Seems like admission of liability to me, but what do I know. I am stupid, remember?

Just ignore him, he will start calling you names next! He makes false accusations, is not prepared to show the "evidence" - probably becasue there is none. Does not believe BT documents on pricing.

Post deleted by Sadoldman

Edited by professor973 (Thu 13-Mar-14 17:13:58)

OK numbskull. I have stated I have a screenshoti of the bill here and that I would have posted a link to it i.f imageshack were not now charging for uploads. Point me to a similar upload site and I will put my money where my mouth is. As for calling me a liar, your mouth needs shutting

No more censored words please and especially no veiled threats of physical violence

That is totally out of order on our forums

http://postimage.org/

It seems you cannot take any advice or help, if it differers from your view.

I have little doubt that charges for 1471 or 1571 are shown on the bill, they are for pressing 5 and trying to connect.

I believe that the message gives warning of a charge with the automatic redial (pressing 5) If you just hang up and dial as normal there is no charge.

'Tis the pressing 5 that cost and you will be happy to know that it is charged regardless of a connection. so if you get the engaged signal it is still 20p on the bill.

And what action have you taken against those that called me a liar and stupid? If I have to get myself banned I will.

I have tried that and activation email will not arrive - Next idea.
I tried to put an image on youtube yesterday but it seems too small to see. After being called a liar, I don't see why I should bother any more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA0yAeOO4fs

Edited by professor973 (Thu 13-Mar-14 18:38:08)

In reply to a post by professor973:

I have tried that and activation email will not arrive - Next idea.

http://postimage.org/

There is no activation email requested there.

I use Dropbox.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I use Dropbox.

I use PhotoBucket for forum photos.

In reply to a post by professor973:

After being called a liar, I don't see why I should bother any more

That's the first sensible thing you've said for a long time. You need to cool off and whilst you're at it think about changing your nick to something more appropriate.

In reply to a post by professor973:

And what action have you taken against those that called me a liar and stupid? If I have to get myself banned I will.

No use of the word liar in this thread other than yours. and as for stupid..... "I am stupid remember"......a quote from yourself. You are alleging that 1471 on the bill is for using that number whilst everyone else is saying it is for using 1471 to make a call......nobody is calling you a lair...they are saying you are wrong.

Face the fact that either all the other contributors in this thread are wrong..... or you are. Why so aggressive to those that do not agree with you? You only control your own posts and on an open forum you will get alternative views.

That others are frustrated by your denial of reality is showing somewhat and I think members should appreciate that you cannot help some people.

In reply to a post by Sadoldman:

In reply to a post by professor973:

And what action have you taken against those that called me a liar and stupid? If I have to get myself banned I will.

No use of the word liar in this thread other than yours. and as for stupid..... "I am stupid remember"......a quote from yourself. You are alleging that 1471 on the bill is for using that number whilst everyone else is saying it is for using 1471 to make a call......nobody is calling you a lair...they are saying you are wrong.

Face the fact that either all the other contributors in this thread are wrong..... or you are. Why so aggressive to those that do not agree with you? You only control your own posts and on an open forum you will get alternative views.

That others are frustrated by your denial of reality is showing somewhat and I think members should appreciate that you cannot help some people.

LOOK BACK and you will see I was accused of lying about having a bill in my hand detailing charges - I agree ... Sad.

In reply to a post by MCM:

In reply to a post by professor973:

After being called a liar, I don't see why I should bother any more

That's the first sensible thing you've said for a long time. You need to cool off and whilst you're at it think about changing your nick to something more appropriate.

So, what's a nick clever-dick? - I'm thick remember? Or is it I will not be treated that way?

In reply to a post by professor973:

So, what's a nick clever-dick? - I'm thick remember? Or is it I will not be treated that way?

So you're the thick professor. How appropriate and remember I'm simply quoting you.

Look, it's quite simple. If the account holder is being charged for access to 1471 or 1571, other than using the call-back service (which is 19.7p), then there's a billing error. It has to be taken up with BT Retail.

There is no per-access charge for either 1471 or 1571 (just the monthly rental for the latter). It's in BT's tariff guide. I've never been charged for either. Note that in the document below, 1471 usage is explicitly listed as "free" and only callback prices are listed for either number.

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumer/asset...

So, it's either a misunderstanding or it's a billing error. If the latter, take it up with BT Retail.

Edited by TheEulerID (Thu 13-Mar-14 23:33:33)

In reply to a post by TheEulerID:

Look, it's quite simple. If the account holder is being charged for access to 1471 or 1571, other than using the call-back service (which is 19.7p), then there's a billing error. It has to be taken up with BT Retail.

There is no per-access charge for either 1471 or 1571 (just the monthly rental for the latter). It's in BT's tariff guide. I've never been charged for either. Note that in the document below, 1471 usage is explicitly listed as "free" and only callback prices are listed for either number.

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumer/asset...

So, it's either a misunderstanding or it's a billing error. If the latter, take it up with BT Retail.

A look above will show IT WAS taken up with BT AND they agreed to repay the charges. An offer that was withdrawn when the customer said they had had enough of BT and were moving. WHY does nobody read the thread before repeating what has gone before.

Firms often make 'goodwill' gestures to placate good customers, but are just as likely to withdraw them when the cust says they are leaving anyway (& whatever else was said), as it was offered for the good will after all .

In reply to a post by professor973:

LOOK BACK and you will see I was accused of lying about having a bill in my hand detailing charges - I agree ... Sad.

No....you look back and and link to where you are called a liar, pm me. Don't look back to where members are saying you are wrong about your interpretation of the charges...there are too many of them, and that is not calling you a liar. Of course 1471 and 1571 charges are shown...when it is used to make a connection, you have had that explained too many times

I note with interest you now pay no attention to the points in explanation of these charges. Most contributors have made it clear what those charges are....you refuse to except that and you have that right ...but not now to cause further aggravation to members whose opinions do not agree with your world view.

This thread cannot throw more light on the subject I fear, agree to disagree, truth will out.


Thread closed.

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