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Standard User ramdrive
(newbie) Thu 08-May-14 14:51:30
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BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[link to this post]
 
Hello All,

I have just had the BT engineer out to install 78mbps Infinity 2 to my property, I was was quite shocked when he refused to install a new master socket or do any line optimization as we had an ADT alarm attached.

He just plugged in a filter, plugged in the home hub 5 and left, total time at my property was 5 minutes!

I have run a speed test and get 39.96mbps download and 10.9mbps upload (I should get 67-80mb Download and 19-20mb upload according to the BT's site).

Does all this sound correct to you? Should I demand to get a new socket put in?

I am really lost as to what to do next...

Here are my speed test results:-

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User ramdrive
(newbie) Thu 08-May-14 14:54:42
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
Some more info:-

3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.173.1.6 (Type A) Last updated Unknown
4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. VDSL uptime: 0 days, 00:49:10
6. Data rate: 11696 / 55996
7. Maximum data rate: 11164 / 57003
8. Noise margin: 5.7 / 6.7
9. Line attenuation: 0.0 / 17.1
10. Signal attenuation: 0.0 / 17.2
Standard User pcoventry76
(knowledge is power) Thu 08-May-14 15:07:01
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
You can get 57 down max and 11 up so the upload looks right. the download is not as you know.

I would ring up BT and ask them to check the line possibly it's called at inifnity 1 speeds?

All I know that I have an install soon and the more I read the more I fret!


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 08-May-14 15:42:29
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
Did you have broadband on the line before, and if so is the alarm filtered at/inside its control box?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 58.7/14.6Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User ramdrive
(newbie) Thu 08-May-14 15:55:54
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Did you have broadband on the line before, and if so is the alarm filtered at/inside its control box?


No we did not have broadband on this line before. The ADT wire goes directly into the master socket no idea were it is filtered.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 08-May-14 16:12:31
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
I suggest you ask ADT about that alarm then.

A modern installation with pre-existing broadband will be filtered. Very old ones without broadband aren't. What happens in the intermediate scenarios of which yours is one I have no idea, sorry. Maybe recent ones are always filtered, maybe not.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 58.7/14.6Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 08-May-14 16:30:49
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I had to call ADT to warn them I was having a phone line upgrade re Infinity then let them know afterwards when the work was done. It was the Openreach installer who advised me on this after asking about a monitored alarm.

BT Infinity 1 (unlimited)
Standard User ramdrive
(newbie) Thu 08-May-14 16:42:59
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
I am not worried about the ADT side, they are going to send an engineer out to sort that.

My main concern is loosing speed because no new master socket was fitted, also what optimizations should the engineer have done?

If anybody here has had infinity 2 fitted what did your installer do?

P.S The installer was from Quinns.

Edited by ramdrive (Thu 08-May-14 16:43:43)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(experienced) Thu 08-May-14 17:12:38
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
I had a 80/20 installation done by Quinn a couple of days ago and he turned one of the extensions into a master (fitted bt mk2 faceplate) where the modem is plugged into. Took him 30 mins and he did a very good job as I get line speeds of 75/18 day & night smile

TalkTalk Business Fibre 79987/19999 kbps
Powered by Linksys EA6900
Standard User sfo32
(newbie) Thu 08-May-14 17:30:30
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
I don't understand why you expected a new master socket. Is it that the current socket is really old, non-NTE5?

Anyway, the way ADT alarms are installed is basically to hardware to the incoming cables, i.e. NOT to the extension prongs of the master socket if it has such an arrangement. I was once told this was to prevent an intruder from being able to disable the connection too easily, and to prevent the owner from accidentally disabling the alarm connection. I don't know if this is 100% accurate or not.

I think I can also see why the installation engineer would not want to touch it, as it would cause the alarm to be disconnected/disabled and he would not be able to know if it was correctly re-connected once he had finished his part.

As to the speed issues - as things stand, the alarm modem (or digi/dialier as they sometimes call them) is unfiltered, and since it calls home every time you arm/disarm there are going to be problems from that.

Once the ADT engineer has visited and filtered it then it should be fine and your speeds may improve.

I seem to remember being quoted £60 or more to have an alarm filtered at one point in the past, so be prepared for a bill (depending on your ADT contract type).
Standard User systemx
(experienced) Thu 08-May-14 17:45:52
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: sfo32] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sfo32:
I don't understand why you expected a new master socket. Is it that the current socket is really old, non-NTE5?

Anyway, the way ADT alarms are installed is basically to hardware to the incoming cables, i.e. NOT to the extension prongs of the master socket if it has such an arrangement. I was once told this was to prevent an intruder from being able to disable the connection too easily, and to prevent the owner from accidentally disabling the alarm connection. I don't know if this is 100% accurate or not.

I think I can also see why the installation engineer would not want to touch it, as it would cause the alarm to be disconnected/disabled and he would not be able to know if it was correctly re-connected once he had finished his part.

As to the speed issues - as things stand, the alarm modem (or digi/dialier as they sometimes call them) is unfiltered, and since it calls home every time you arm/disarm there are going to be problems from that.

Once the ADT engineer has visited and filtered it then it should be fine and your speeds may improve.

I seem to remember being quoted £60 or more to have an alarm filtered at one point in the past, so be prepared for a bill (depending on your ADT contract type).


It's just connected like that so the enduser does not disconnect it by mistake. Most modern alarm panels will default to mobile phone network if the line is interrupted.
If this were my line I would disconnect the panel from the A and B connections on the master socket (it's connected there along with the incoming line) and connect it to the filterd output of the VSDL plate Job done.

Edited by systemx (Thu 08-May-14 18:04:38)

Standard User ramdrive
(newbie) Thu 08-May-14 20:12:37
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: systemx] [link to this post]
 
You are correct it is a non-NTE5 socket. I asked if a new socket would be fitted pre sale and was told it would.

Maybe I was just expecting more from the install...
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Thu 08-May-14 21:00:18
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Re: BTU infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: sfo32] [link to this post]
 
The BTU OR engineer could have also fitted an in-line filter on the alarms circuit, And from the sounds of it he didn't fit a filtered faceplate and then check the connection at all,If the fitting of a filtered faceplate wasn't possible due to there being no removable lower section, then yes he should have replaced the master socket ,to enable this to be done, and could of connected /filtered the alarm that way ,as suggested already
If what has been done so far is classed as an engineer install , they may as well cease to bother, and just let everyone DIY it,

If it where me, i would be complaining to someone high up in BT about this, Was it a real BTOpenreach engineer or one of those Pretend ones in fancy dress (Sub contractors) from MJ Quinn or Kelly coms?

Edited by tommy45 (Thu 08-May-14 21:14:19)

Standard User ramdrive
(newbie) Fri 09-May-14 00:53:29
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Re: BTU infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by tommy45:
The BTU OR engineer could have also fitted an in-line filter on the alarms circuit, And from the sounds of it he didn't fit a filtered faceplate and then check the connection at all,If the fitting of a filtered faceplate wasn't possible due to there being no removable lower section, then yes he should have replaced the master socket ,to enable this to be done, and could of connected /filtered the alarm that way ,as suggested already
If what has been done so far is classed as an engineer install , they may as well cease to bother, and just let everyone DIY it,

If it where me, i would be complaining to someone high up in BT about this, Was it a real BTOpenreach engineer or one of those Pretend ones in fancy dress (Sub contractors) from MJ Quinn or Kelly coms?


Quinn...

Your thinking is my thinking in this matter, thanks!

I will give BT the chance via CEO email to sort the problem, if that fails I will go legal.

Working in the petroleum sector is a god send in these situations!
Standard User baby_frogmella
(experienced) Fri 09-May-14 07:12:06
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Re: BTU infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
This might be useful, especially last page...
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/aboutus/equiva...

TalkTalk Business Fibre 79987/19999 kbps
Powered by Linksys EA6900
Standard User pcoventry76
(knowledge is power) Fri 09-May-14 07:12:50
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Re: BTU infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
Does your HH5 run on unleaded?

Other than that I can't see how working in any sector matters. unless you are rich and therefore can afford to go legal in which case why bother with a [censored] £30 a month connection?

Mind boggles!
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Fri 09-May-14 08:11:20
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Re: BTU infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: pcoventry76] [link to this post]
 
gringringrin

Standard User pcoventry76
(knowledge is power) Fri 09-May-14 08:24:38
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Re: BTU infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Sorry. I've just called BT to cancel and moved elsewhere. All the horror stories combined with the horrible call centre and those who frequent the online customer nazi forum (which is what it looks like in my dealings with them) was all too much

Yes I have to wait 4 days but I'm in no rush and I get to keep it in the UK which Is something I always try to do if possible

So my comment was on the back of - well just being a sarky git I suppose smile
Standard User ramdrive
(newbie) Fri 09-May-14 09:31:14
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Re: BTU infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: pcoventry76] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by pcoventry76:
Does your HH5 run on unleaded?

Other than that I can't see how working in any sector matters. unless you are rich and therefore can afford to go legal in which case why bother with a [censored] £30 a month connection?

Mind boggles!


LOL, No but we have a big legal team at work that is happy to help with any action free of charge.

£30 is small but I am paying for a service and I expect to get what I pay for.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 09-May-14 13:07:16
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Re: BTU infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ramdrive:
LOL, No but we have a big legal team at work that is happy to help with any action free of charge.
Clearly a benefit in kind on which you should be paying income tax smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 58.7/14.6Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User pcoventry76
(knowledge is power) Fri 09-May-14 13:39:30
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Re: BTU infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
Maybe they should be fighting to lower the prices.. Oh no that would mean they get smaller wages - can't have that

The other point is true
Standard User pcoventry76
(knowledge is power) Fri 09-May-14 13:39:52
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Re: BTU infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
smile
Standard User ramdrive
(newbie) Thu 15-May-14 11:25:03
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
UPDATE

I have just had a proper openreach engineer over and the problem with my line running at 57 mbps download and 11 mbps upload was due to the Quinns engineer not fitting an SSFP Infinity master socket.

The OR engineer fitted a new SSFP master socket and reset my profile, I am now getting speeds of 76 mbps download and 20 mbps upload, I am now happy!

Anyone upgrading to Infinity 2 needs to make sure you have a proper SSFP Inifity socket installed to get max speeds.

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/40812...

If anyone needs any advice on how to handle BT in this matter drop me a PM, I am happy to help.

Edited by ramdrive (Thu 15-May-14 14:47:47)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 15-May-14 11:42:01
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
Microfilters on their own are fine, but the improvement suggests there was some unfiltered wiring causing the issues

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User pcoventry76
(knowledge is power) Thu 15-May-14 11:42:10
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
Nice!

I have an AM appointment on the 28th for the ISP I have gone with. I am hoping I get a real engineer and that they fit the right kit.

Really glad to hear you are now sorted smile
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 15-May-14 12:30:04
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Probably the ADT alarm.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 58.7/14.6Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User ramdrive
(newbie) Thu 15-May-14 12:38:46
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Probably the ADT alarm.


Nope, it was the socket and microfilter combination that was the problem, I removed the ADT wire from the socket a day after the install and it made no difference to the speeds.

My socket was a very old Non NTE5 faceplate...

Edited by ramdrive (Thu 15-May-14 14:43:24)

Standard User ramdrive
(newbie) Thu 15-May-14 14:58:30
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: pcoventry76] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by pcoventry76:
Nice!

I have an AM appointment on the 28th for the ISP I have gone with. I am hoping I get a real engineer and that they fit the right kit.

Really glad to hear you are now sorted smile


Good luck with the install, I am sure it will be OK.

FYI the OR engineer told me that you can actually refuse a Kelly/Quinn engineer on the grounds that you expected an OR engineer to perform the install.

Also note you have 28 days from the install date to get an OR engineer out free of charge if you feel you are not getting the speeds you expected.
Standard User baby_frogmella
(experienced) Thu 15-May-14 16:16:51
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ramdrive:
In reply to a post by pcoventry76:
Nice!

I have an AM appointment on the 28th for the ISP I have gone with. I am hoping I get a real engineer and that they fit the right kit.

Really glad to hear you are now sorted smile

FYI the OR engineer told me that you can actually refuse a Kelly/Quinn engineer on the grounds that you expected an OR engineer to perform the install.

No need to frighten people dude. Can't speak for Kelly's but MJ Quinns did my 80/20 installation last week and the engineer was perfectly competent. Took him 30-45 mins to install a new mk2 master socket and he insisted I checked line speeds before he left my property. All in all a satisfactory experience smile

TalkTalk Business Fibre 79987/19999 kbps
Powered by Linksys EA6900
Standard User pcoventry76
(knowledge is power) Thu 15-May-14 16:21:24
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: ramdrive] [link to this post]
 
Which is all fantastic information which I didn't know so thank you for that smile
Standard User pcoventry76
(knowledge is power) Thu 15-May-14 16:23:24
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
He didn't scare me - it's only a broadband install.

I've come from 165mbps so anything I get is fine with me. I just wanted real fibre with 24/7 upload rather than 4/7
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 15-May-14 16:28:55
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: pcoventry76] [link to this post]
 
You do know that FTTC is only fibre to the cabinet, so NOT real fibre.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User pcoventry76
(knowledge is power) Thu 15-May-14 17:13:22
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Re: BT infinity 2 Install Problem


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yes I am aware of that.

I was referring to something else. And also to a comment where someone compared BT to VM saying it was " real fibre"
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