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Standard User Opabinia
(learned) Sat 07-Jun-14 18:13:20
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The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[link to this post]
 
Hello and thanks for reading.

It seems I have a very strange problem and I'm flummoxed.

My son cannot connect to our HH from his room upstairs. I can (via phone) and my wife can with her laptop and phone but my son cannot. Meanwhile, downstairs my computer is working just fine with a cable connection my wife's works fine but my son cannot connect. Because I was unable to resolve the wi-fi issues my son was having, he started to use the BT Hotspot system and everything seemed hunky-dory.

I just decided to opt out of our inclusion in the Hotspot scheme just to see what would happen. Immediately he lost his connection and played merry hell as usual. To increase the mystery further we have just experienced an outage that lasted maybe an hour during which I was unable to connect, obviously and nor was my wife. My son was having no problems at all.

If you have any idea what is going on I would be most grateful to hear.

Our doors and neighbours would also be grateful as I don't think they can take much more slamming....kids, I love 'em.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sat 07-Jun-14 18:28:13
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: Opabinia] [link to this post]
 
When you opted-out, that turned off the BT "Hotspot system" on your Homehub.


______________________________________________________________________________________False_Authority_Syndrome__________________
Standard User Opabinia
(learned) Sat 07-Jun-14 18:39:19
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Thanks.

I realise that. But why is that the only way for it to work for him? If the HH can bump the signal to where he is why does he fail to get a connection when he tries to use our Infinity?

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was his computer...but that's a whole other set of problems.


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Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sat 07-Jun-14 18:45:33
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: Opabinia] [link to this post]
 
Homehubs are funny things. You should try turning off Smart Setup and also try splitting the 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands with a separate SSID for each - if you have a dual-band Homehub, 4 or 5.


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Standard User Opabinia
(learned) Sat 07-Jun-14 19:03:57
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
It's a HH V3 but I will look into that. You mean smart wireless am I correct?
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sat 07-Jun-14 19:18:01
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: Opabinia] [link to this post]
 
Yes, that's what I meant.

HH3, now they really are strange.


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 07-Jun-14 19:57:09
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: Opabinia] [link to this post]
 
Has he got the correct WEP/WPA/WPA2 setting on his computer? I expect the HH3 is WPA2.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 58.7/14.6Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Opabinia
(learned) Sat 07-Jun-14 20:13:15
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks. Strange indeed!

It is WPA/WPA2. I would hope he has the correct setting, I'll check.
Standard User napolibill
(regular) Sat 07-Jun-14 20:26:35
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: Opabinia] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Opabinia:
To increase the mystery further we have just experienced an outage that lasted maybe an hour


I initially read that as "outrage" smile Puts a different perspective on the matter!!
Standard User John_Gray
(regular) Sat 07-Jun-14 20:34:52
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: Opabinia] [link to this post]
 
It seems very unlikely that any equipment considered "cool" by your son wouldn't support WPA2 (which would outlaw one line of thinking), but I wonder what is the signal strength of your wireless channel in his room. Is there any interference between the wireless channel you use and those from next door(s), maybe?

I can quite see that the non-availability of an adequate wireless service would cause any self-respecting son to leave home!

Edited by John_Gray (Sat 07-Jun-14 20:38:12)

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 07-Jun-14 20:49:05
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: Opabinia] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Opabinia:
It is WPA/WPA2.

Try changing it to WPA2 only rather than the both mode of WPA/WPA2 which can confuse a lot of computers. The encryption type should be AES and not TKIP.

James - plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - Sync 55/9.4 (BT was 51/9.8)
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - PN BQM - PN speed - old BT speed

Edited by jchamier (Sat 07-Jun-14 20:49:35)

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sat 07-Jun-14 21:49:04
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: Opabinia] [link to this post]
 
As an experiment, disconnect your and your wife's devices. Then turn off encryption and see if he can connect. Then implement WEP, try again, then WPA &c if he can connect without encryption but fails at an encrypted level then that is his equipment at fault.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Opabinia
(learned) Sat 07-Jun-14 22:57:32
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions.

In response to napolibill:

Yep outage, we had nothing though the HH was still functioning as a wireless router otherwise just not for my VDSL connection. Very odd!

In response to John_Gray

Absolutely. He has a phone, tablet and laptop none of which apparently allow him to get a connection. That in itself strikes me as very odd. His equipment is certainly modern enough to support WPA2. Do you think he would leave home? That would be ideal I can buy more lizards. wink

There is a very good chance of interference from neighbouring connections. There are certainly a number of wireless connections in the area.

Reply to jchamier & MHC

That sounds like a very good plan. I will certainly suggest that tomorrow and see what happens.I think we already tried turning off all other devices other than my son's but it's worth another try to check.


The wireless signal strength to the best of my knowledge is fine. Wireless works fine from the room my wife and I share and the bathroom and the landing all of which are adjacent and only separated by thin internal walls. Not that this would rule out a problem in one room of course. I shall try your suggestions and report back what I find.

Very many thanks for all the help.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sat 07-Jun-14 23:07:25
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: Opabinia] [link to this post]
 
Reason I said turn off all others and then try your son's without any encryption is that you could open yourself up to a hacker - a small chance but you need to be aware and that means your data will be secure and just the router and sons PC vulnerable for a short time. But proving the PC and access point will communicate in that mode is a step towards solving it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 07-Jun-14 23:10:52
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: Opabinia] [link to this post]
 
Pound to a penny he is entering the key incorrectly.

BT Infinity 1 (unlimited)
Standard User jamie543
(regular) Sat 07-Jun-14 23:36:07
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: Opabinia] [link to this post]
 
3 devices not allowing him to connect and the only common thing with the device is the owner definitely sounds like user error ie an incorrect encryption code

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 07-Jun-14 23:53:40
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: John_Gray] [link to this post]
 
Most kit needs explicit selection of the correct encryption type. What they support is a different question.

As others have since said, the most likely is incorrect entry of the key. My question was merely an obvious preliminary.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 58.7/14.6Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Sun 08-Jun-14 08:06:50
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: Opabinia] [link to this post]
 
AS your lady-wife's laptop is working elsewhere on WiFi, have you tried it and her phone in your son's bedroom - preferably when he is out!!
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 08-Jun-14 10:12:25
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Most kit needs explicit selection of the correct encryption type. What they support is a different question.

Most clients autodetect, most routers/WAPs require explicit selection. There seems to be a trend in router/WAP vendors to set the box to WPA/WPA2 shared mode which breaks a lot of devices as the autodetection gets horribly confused.

James - plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - Sync 55/9.4 (BT was 51/9.8)
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - PN BQM - PN speed - old BT speed
Standard User stniuk
(experienced) Sun 08-Jun-14 11:42:04
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Is he running Windows Vista?
We had huge trouble getting Vista to connect to a router once, my iPod touch connected right away.
We could only get vista to connect if we turned of the router security, not very good.
Try turning off the security for a test to see if his computer connects.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 08-Jun-14 13:13:29
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: stniuk] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by stniuk:
Is he running Windows Vista?
We had huge trouble getting Vista to connect to a router once, my iPod touch connected right away.

Vista came with some very old wireless drivers. Often you could update them from the wireless card manufacturer and fix this. (I can't answer your question, as you replied to me, not the original poster).

James - plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - Sync 55/9.4 (BT was 51/9.8)
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - PN BQM - PN speed - old BT speed
Standard User jamie543
(regular) Sun 08-Jun-14 13:49:27
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: stniuk] [link to this post]
 
This would not explain his phone not connecting and tablet not connnecting first thing to check is has the correct key been used including capital letters as it will be case senstive

Standard User MichaelPerry
(newbie) Mon 09-Jun-14 11:11:39
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: jamie543] [link to this post]
 
One question no one seems to have asked is: Is he trying to connect to the signals from your HH3 and not somebody else's?
With several other sources around, he could be 'seeing' others and attempting to use that and not yours. So when he puts in your key it doesn't connect to other networks as they may well use a different key!
Also, is your SSID being shown? That can help identify which network(s) are around - but there can be security issues apparently.
Standard User MichaelPerry
(newbie) Mon 09-Jun-14 11:17:56
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I don't find the HH3 at all 'strange'. It works well and has done in my home for 2 years. Easy to set up if you RTFM and you can set fixed IP addresses once the equipment is connected to the HH3.
Setting up WPA2 is easy as is setting the 'passphrase', I always set my admin login and WPA2 passphrases different from the 'defaults and different from each other for security.
There are aspects I would have liked to be done differently (after 18 years experience of internet usage) but that's how BT have had it designed.
It works for me!
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 09-Jun-14 12:17:25
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: MichaelPerry] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MichaelPerry:
I don't find the HH3 at all 'strange'.
It transmits 2 additional SSID's on the same channel as your wifi
It only has 1 GigE port
Port forwarding is intermittent
It forgets devices
It keeps on slowing down to 2Mbps
It's locked
Strange enough to skip it.


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Standard User MichaelPerry
(newbie) Mon 09-Jun-14 12:32:37
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Those 'additional' SSIDs are the BT Fon services available on all Home Hubs! That's what the BT advert is talking about when they mention millions of WiFi hotspots being available.

The fastest Ethernet I know of is 1 Gbps anyway so that cannot be a problem.

I've not experienced that port forwarding problem at all, so you may well have a faulty HH3.

Ditto

Slowing is not due to the HH3 but the exchange equipment responding to problems on your ADSL line, the DSLAM adjusts the profile if there are intermitencies or heavy noise on the line so it slows the connection sync speed and increases the noise margin and hence the throughput speeds get slower. If that is a problem to you, report the fault to BT.

Mine's not locked! Have you tried logging in using the default admin login/password? If that doesn't let you in to the interface, do a full reset (not a restart) according to the User Manual instructions (you have got those, haven't you?)

Don't understand the last statement!
Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Mon 09-Jun-14 12:36:39
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: MichaelPerry] [link to this post]
 
The problem with GigE is that it only has 1 port. So, if you want to do GigE around your internal network then you have to buy a separate switch. And if you are lucky enough to get Internet about 100Mb then only one of the connected ports could handle it and anything connected to the other ports would be limited to the port speed.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 09-Jun-14 12:40:44
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: MichaelPerry] [link to this post]
 
The slowing is not due to the DLM profile, it's just the Homehub.
It's locked. Can you change the DNS servers?


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Standard User ukhardy07
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 09-Jun-14 13:43:58
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Mine never slows to 2Mbps.
It does however lock up every so often and need regular reboots. Go figure. Isn't the best piece of technology.
Standard User MichaelPerry
(newbie) Mon 09-Jun-14 13:55:22
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
My HH3 has 4 Ethernet ports that all support and provide 100 Mbps Ethernet connections, no difference between any of them!
Nothiong wronmg with adding a Gigabit Ethernet switch in the system, providing your HH supports gigabit.
Standard User MichaelPerry
(newbie) Mon 09-Jun-14 13:59:12
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Our local Openreach broadband engineer recently told me that the HH does not cause the slowing unless there is a fault in the HH.

He came to see us as we had a slowing problem, not because of our HH3 but there was a fault in the DSLAM! He also told me that most slowing problems he has seen are either due to line or exchange equipment or else users rebooting the HH when it is not needed (which makes the exchange gear think there is a fault when there isn't really!). When that happens it reduces the profile setting and increases the noise margin target.
Standard User MichaelPerry
(newbie) Mon 09-Jun-14 14:00:20
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
It's more than likely that either you have a faulty HH3 or else a line fault. Get it checked by BT is my suggestion.
Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Mon 09-Jun-14 14:32:41
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: MichaelPerry] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MichaelPerry:
My HH3 has 4 Ethernet ports that all support and provide 100 Mbps Ethernet connections, no difference between any of them!
Nothiong wronmg with adding a Gigabit Ethernet switch in the system, providing your HH supports gigabit.


I was clarifying Batboy's comment as you seemed to misunderstand it. Many newer routers comes with 4 GigE ports and therefore don't need a separate switch. A downside of the home hubs is that they have 1 GigE port at most. For people with above 100Mb Internet or that want to move stuff around the internal network they may be better off using something other than an HH due to this limitation.
Standard User jcym
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 09-Jun-14 16:21:24
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
The HH5 now has 4 x Gb ports but it is the first of them to have more than one. Haven't used it so don't have a clue what it is like. I prefer the EC1 with my Netgear and haven't used the HH4 I was supplied with either because of it only having one Gb port and my network is all Gb.
Standard User ian72
(knowledge is power) Mon 09-Jun-14 16:42:54
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: jcym] [link to this post]
 
HH5 caused me problems with streaming due to BT connecting to it every half our or so to see if it needed an update - for some reason that caused everything to disconnect for a few seconds. Otherwise I quite liked it but since swapping back to my Billion 7800 all has been working fine.
Standard User Opabinia
(learned) Fri 13-Jun-14 17:49:17
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: ian72] [link to this post]
 
Well I managed find to do all the checks and check all the settings, took me longer to get around to it than I though it would.

All the devices have the correct settings. So that can be ruled out I believe.I've manually assigned wifi channels and let the HH do it and there are no benefits it terms of stability either way.

The problem seems to be down to the number od devices using wifi at any one point. Once "critical mass" anything over that causes my sons connection to die. In terms of "critical mass" the number seems to be 4-5. It's not like a switch it seems as if it tries to keep up and then decides sod it, he's furthest away (upstairs) he can [censored] off. If all the devices are in the same room it just refuses to connect the last one. As soon as you switch off any device it kicks in again and tries to reconnect any other device seeking a wifi signal. I suspect it would also depend on a device wanting to access the actual internet rather than just be connected. You can be connected just have zero internet access.

It sounds like a dodgy HH to me but maybe they are just rubbish and always like this, I've only ever had one. All my other wireless routers have worked fine with multiple wired and wireless devices connected and functioning.

I'm tempted to report it but wonder if there's any point. I've dealt with BT Customer Service before and I mostly end up wanting to kill people.

I can't really move the HH from where it is and although I could run a cable at a pinch, I feel disinclined to do so.

As it is my son is about the only computer connected to wifi no, my wife is using a cable, I already was and my mobile phones use it occasionally.

I hate wifi, you know where you are with a [censored] wire.

Thanks for reading and all the suggestions and help.
Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Fri 13-Jun-14 19:57:27
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: Opabinia] [link to this post]
 
And thanks for the report back - we're learning all the time!
Standard User Opabinia
(learned) Sat 14-Jun-14 01:19:18
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Re: The Curious Case of BT Infinity Wi-Fi


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Not at all. Thank you.
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