BT supplied YouView - data use

A friend is about to start a new broadband contract with BT involving the provision of a YouView recorder. The broadband contract is only for 20GB (not a lot by today's standards, but ample for her typical use) but the data consumed by the YouView box doesn't count as part of the monthly allowance. OK so far.

How does the BT broadband 'metering' system distinguish between data used by the YouView box (not billable) and 'normal' data i.e. that which comes off the monthly allowance?

And, for my hypothetical supplementary question: suppose we installed a second YouView box of our own (i.e. not supplied by BT as part of a contract), how would the metering system distinguish between data consumed by the BT-supplied unit (unmetered) and the purchased one (part of the 20GB allowance)?

Edited by deleted (Sat 14-Jun-14 14:06:34)

My guess would be that data from/to the IP addresses used for BT's Youview service are omitted from BT's data counter used for billing. Same goes for BT Wi-fi usage on the Hub.

As each youview would have its own IP Address. Only 1 address would count. The second would form part of download usage. Unless you purchase multi room for £5 per month.

Not quite. The IP address is the same but the unique device id (MAC id?) is the one used to associate the Youview box with the subscription.

You can of, course use the BT Sport app or website to give you a sort of mutliview functionality which comes free as part of have a BT internet connection.

In reply to a post by flippery:

As each youview would have its own IP Address. Only 1 address would count. The second would form part of download usage. Unless you purchase multi room for £5 per month.

Eh??? Presumably, the YouView box gets leased an IP address on the Hub's LAN by its DHCP server. That address is a moveable feast, depending upon which devices on the network happen to be on at any one time. While a given device is likely to be offered the same IP address each time (based on its MAC address), it's not an absolute.

No, the correct answer cannot lie in IP addresses simply because they are impermanent.

I was suggesting that the IP addresses of the servers used to send the Youview data are white-listed and not counted towards billing. I don't think the customer's IP address would come into play, because as you say, it's variable.

In reply to a post by gomezz:

The IP address is the same but the unique device id (MAC id?) is the one used to associate the Youview box with the subscription

That sounds feasible. However, while the MAC address is built into the box hardware, it might be relatively easy for other boxes to spoof that address and thereby obtain "free" data.

My suspicion at this point is that BT use their own portal for YouView access (i.e. different from that used by 'purchased' YouView boxes) possibly in combination with checking the MAC address of the box and/or the user's public IP address at any one time.

In reply to a post by Oliver341:

I was suggesting that the IP addresses of the servers used to send the Youview data are white-listed and not counted towards billing.

Fascinating: I hadn't considered the possibility that data originating from particular IPs might be classified as exempt from charging. Of course, with IP data you can do that sort of thing; with gas or electricity, you cannot

In reply to a post by PlutoX:

Fascinating: I hadn't considered the possibility that data originating from particular IPs might be classified as exempt from charging. Of course, with IP data you can do that sort of thing; with gas or electricity, you cannot

Yep, it would seem a sensible way of doing it to me. The same system could be used to zero-bill data to the BT VPN IP's used for BT Wi-fi, since that data is not customer-billed either.

The multicast data is added in the BT Wholesale network, downstream of the BT Retail metering system. The system is described here:

http://www.sinet.bt.com/sinet/sins/pdf/511v1p5.pdf

Page 9 describes the way your line profile is reduced to leave room for the IPTV stream and I assume that multiple IGMP Join requests (from more than one box) reduces the profile accordingly.

In reply to a post by ferretuk:

The multicast data is added in the BT Wholesale network, downstream of the BT Retail metering system.

What about the traffic for on-demand stuff? Surely that's unicast?

Correct, the on demand feeds are unicast - and metered. It's only the multicast channels that don't count to any usage data.

This page: http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/44084...

states that the on demand content isn't charged for if you have an active subscription for TV so I guess they track the source of the data rather than the destination.

Edited by ferretuk (Sat 14-Jun-14 19:17:17)

In reply to a post by ferretuk:

Correct, the on demand feeds are unicast - and metered. It's only the multicast channels that don't count to any usage data

Not so. *All* internet usage via the Youview box is not counted. For example, iPlayer and other catch up service usage is not counted.

Bye the bye, for many users (myself included) their online data monitor is borked and unless and until they fix it *no* internet usage by any connected device is being counted.

Edited by gomezz (Sat 14-Jun-14 22:51:52)

In reply to a post by ferretuk:

The multicast data is added in the BT Wholesale network, downstream of the BT Retail metering system. The system is described here:

http://www.sinet.bt.com/sinet/sins/pdf/511v1p5.pdf

Page 9 describes the way your line profile is reduced to leave room for the IPTV stream and I assume that multiple IGMP Join requests (from more than one box) reduces the profile accordingly.

Aha - You've just provided an answer to something that's been bugging me for a few months now. My connection had dropped from around 73meg to 64meg and we didn't know why. On reading your post, I just checked and lo and behold, it just happens to coincide with the day IPTV was enabled on my account.
Am going to have to read up on this in a bit more detail at a later date.
Am wondering if that is a permanent 'adjustment' of your profile or whether it merely effects the prioritisation of traffic when present?
Mine appears to be permanent in that my profile appears constant whether any IPTV enabled devices are on or off.
If permanent, I wonder how that would effect those on or just above a level by which the profile is capped/adjusted.
i.e. assume it drops your profile by 10Mbits/sec (rate of Premium HD stream), what effect would that have on someone with a profile of 10Mbits or slightly above?
Do they effectively lose the majority of their bandwidth?
Going to have to go read up on that part...

Cheers for the heads up and pointers... hadn't even considered the effect of the IPTV before today.

Chris

Thanks to all who responded.

It's clear that some of the systems involved have become too complex for their own good.

Look here where it says...

"Due to technical reasons, some YouView content is currently contributing to the broadband usage monitor even though it's exempt and you'll not be charged for it. We realise that this is confusing..."

The bottom of page 9 and the page 10 describe the channel leave steps - Your rate should increase again when you stop watching a stream.

In reply to a post by PlutoX:

"Due to technical reasons, some YouView content is currently contributing to the broadband usage monitor even though it's exempt and you'll not be charged for it. We realise that this is confusing..."

You could probably exchange "technical reasons" with "incompetence" there.