Infinity Install - extra charge for "Data Extension Kit"?

Hi, my parents are considering getting BT Infinity - at the moment they don't have internet at all. However, their master socket is in a closet with no mains power, so they would need a "BT Infinity Data Extension Kit" to run the cable through to a room with electricity.

I phoned up BT to find out if there would be a charge for this, and they were pretty useless - they said that if an engineer visit was required for the installation, then he would fit it for free, but otherwise there would be a charge.

So - is there any way to find out if an engineer visit will be required for the installation? And if not, how do I "flag" the installation to make sure that an engineer comes around to fit the extension kit, as otherwise they'll have a completely unusable internet connection? What's the charge likely to be if we have to pay?

Apologies for all the questions, my parents aren't very technical and they won't be able to sort this out themselves...

Cheers,

Tim.

Providers choice usually as to whether they order the £49 self-install no engineer visit or £99 install from the supplier Openreach

The £49 is often reduced or absorbed into the contract. What the retailer charges is up to them.

Is there an option on the online order entry to specify the Data Extension Kit? (It may be called the Home Wiring Solution, which is what Openreach call it these days).

If there is, it must at some stage before committing the order tell you the cost.

The "up to 38MBps" product is definitely self-install. I have a feeling the 76Mbps one is as well these days but I'm not sure.

If it is self-install there is a possibility of less than the optimum performance if you use an extension socket, just as now. Look at the "Impacted" estimates on this checker. Make sure you use their phone number or full address, not the pure postcode option.

If you have optimised the wiring to the extension, which we can help you with if you haven't, the performance will normally be OK. If you copy and paste the estimates from the table, including the ADSLx ones, and tell us what their connection speed is now, we may be able to advise a bit better.

You can also make and run a data extension cable yourself for them if necessary. It isn't too difficult. Or are they too far away?

If you order Infinity 1, that is self-install.

If you order Infinity 2, you get an engineer to visit who can fit a data-extension kit for free.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Providers choice usually as to whether they order the £49 self-install no engineer visit or £99 install from the supplier Openreach

The £49 is often reduced or absorbed into the contract. What the retailer charges is up to them.

They're going to go with BT as the supplier, just to simplify the billing. As someone has said, they only want "basic" fibre so I suspect it will be self install...

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Is there an option on the online order entry to specify the Data Extension Kit? (It may be called the Home Wiring Solution, which is what Openreach call it these days).

If there is, it must at some stage before committing the order tell you the cost.

The "up to 38MBps" product is definitely self-install. I have a feeling the 76Mbps one is as well these days but I'm not sure.

If it is self-install there is a possibility of less than the optimum performance if you use an extension socket, just as now. Look at the "Impacted" estimates on this checker. Make sure you use their phone number or full address, not the pure postcode option.

If you have optimised the wiring to the extension, which we can help you with if you haven't, the performance will normally be OK. If you copy and paste the estimates from the table, including the ADSLx ones, and tell us what their connection speed is now, we may be able to advise a bit better.

You can also make and run a data extension cable yourself for them if necessary. It isn't too difficult. Or are they too far away?

They have an extension socket, but I have no idea what quality it is, it's probably decades old. There's no possibility for me to go an optimise it, sadly, I'm in London and they're in Belfast.

The BT checker is predicting 38Mb-56Mb for Fibre, or 3.5Mb - 8.5Mb for vanilla ADSL, does that help?

FTTC Range A (Clean) 55.8 38.1 14.5 8.9 -- Available
FTTC Range B (Impacted) 47.5 27.4 14.5 6.9 -- Available


Since they want the cheapest fibre possible, I suspect it will be self install, which is a pain...

Edited by timjon (Sat 01-Nov-14 17:48:47)

The checker I gave you is more specific, and is basically what the BT one gets its info from . It's the A and B lines that we need. I'm only interested in the ADSLx estimates if you know what they actually get, as there could be a clue to the quality of their wiring in the difference.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The checker I gave you is more specific, and is basically what the BT one gets its info from . It's the A and B lines that we need. I'm only interested in the ADSLx estimates if you know what they actually get, as there could be a clue to the quality of their wiring in the difference.

Overlapping edits! Here you go:

FTTC Range A (Clean) 55.8 38.1 14.5 8.9 -- Available
FTTC Range B (Impacted) 47.5 27.4 14.5 6.9 -- Available

They don't actually have ADSL (or any kind of internet) at the moment, so there's no way to tell the quality of their extension wiring...

Edited by timjon (Sat 01-Nov-14 17:50:21)

What type of master socket do they have? A modern or an old one? If it needs updating then that may be one way.

Good thinking.

In reply to a post by MHC:

What type of master socket do they have? A modern or an old one? If it needs updating then that may be one way.

They don't have a photo or any details, but it's apparently about 15 years old, if that helps! (To clarify - they're currently staying with me in London, so there's no way for them to describe it except from memory. Once they're back in Belfast they could probably have a look, but they'll have no way to send a photo since they don't have internet...)

Edited by timjon (Sat 01-Nov-14 17:55:48)

In which case you can probably relax if they have a modern NTE5. I doubt if they will be wanting 6 simultaneous video streams. If it's an older master socket, as MHC says, BT need to be told that at order time.

What do they want to use it for?

All they need to tell us about the master in the cupboard is whether it has the split across the middle where the bottom part can be unscrewed. If it is solid, like the extension then it's an old one.

Don't put them in a panic. Even with an old one, they will almost certainly be OK with a self-install, with a dangly filter in the extension. As I just asked, it would be an idea if you know what they intend to do with the broadband.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

All they need to tell us about the master in the cupboard is whether it has the split across the middle where the bottom part can be unscrewed. If it is solid, like the extension then it's an old one.

Don't put them in a panic. Even with an old one, they will almost certainly be OK with a self-install, with a dangly filter in the extension. As I just asked, it would be an idea if you know what they intend to do with the broadband.

Thanks for the reassurance, that's good to know. The primary motivation is for Skyping so they can talk to their grandchildren (our children), so they'll need decent-ish bandwidth, but I'd guess 3 Mbits each way would be plenty. So hopefully it will work fine with the extension. I'll get them to find out whether the socket has a line across it when they get back to Ireland in about a week and then post back!

Micro filters on extension should in theory give speeds un the impacted range which are more than enough for video conferencing and faster than what I do all my online stuff with.

A decent webcam like the Logitech C920 USB will help to get the best out of chats.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Micro filters on extension should in theory give speeds un the impacted range which are more than enough for video conferencing and faster than what I do all my online stuff with.

Quite .

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Even with an old one, they will almost certainly be OK with a self-install, with a dangly filter in the extension. As I just asked, it would be an idea if you know what they intend to do with the broadband.

There is a remote possibility of something more difficult, but the only answer to that is to ensure an engineer install. Even that is far from being guaranteed a success, as you know.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 01-Nov-14 21:29:41)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Micro filters on extension should in theory give speeds un the impacted range which are more than enough for video conferencing and faster than what I do all my online stuff with.

A decent webcam like the Logitech C920 USB will help to get the best out of chats.

Thanks, that's really reassuring to know. We actually have the C920 outselves, I agree it's excellent! The Grandparents are going to get an iPad, though; given that they've never used the internet before it seemed like the safest option to avoid them getting hopelessly infected within the first week, especially since I can't just go round to provide technical support.

Having just tried to get BT Infinity 1 (which failed as we're an Exchange Only line but that's another story) we had an Openreach sub contractor turn up to do the installs - this was to trace where the line line out in the cabinet. They said they could use the internal phone wiring to connect the master to the router location. NB BT do NOT recommend using the phone wiring. In the end I persuaded him (the phone wiring is old and went via living room/bedroom and then to the study) to get the data extension kit with me routing it up to the loft and then down to where the router was. The contractor had all the equipment to do this and is was free of charge.

As long as you have the newer split master socket then the new cover plate fits over the top.

Morning Timjon

As they do not have Internet at present, it may be worth-while getting the Phone Line Length from the Exchange in lieu of ADSL results.

https://windows.mouselike.org/be/index.asp?DoAction=...

Preferably using their Phone Number.

Otherwise, try to measure the distance, such as on Google Earth.

Keeping in mind that the BT Ducts may not follow the "obvious" route!

And as BT Infinity is FTTC, ie the part-distance from the PCP (Local grey/green distribution cabinet), that PCP to House Distance as well, as it becomes much more critical.

-------------------------

Also ask them to do a Quiet Line Test on their present phone BEFORE any Broadband is connected up.

If there is noise on the line, this can upset Broadband of any type; and is easier to detect and have sorted before Broadband complicates things.

Dial 17070 (No charge)

Option 2 (Art most a very quiet hum, preferably nothing.)

Edited by deleted (Sun 02-Nov-14 10:12:05)

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

Morning Timjon

As they do not have Internet at present, it may be worth-while getting the Phone Line Length from the Exchange in lieu of ADSL results.

https://windows.mouselike.org/be/index.asp?DoAction=...

Preferably using their Phone Number.

Otherwise, try to measure the distance, such as on Google Earth.

Keeping in mind that the BT Ducts may not follow the "obvious" route!

Thanks, that's handy!

Word of advise, best to have a laptop or other device with Ethernet, since if there are broadband speed issues ruling out wireless issues before reporting a problem is the thing to do.

Also some people really prefer a keyboard for typing emails, makes complex passwords a lot simpler too.

I don't really see how it's handy, as it is only relevant to ADSLx and we already have some clue for that. Completely irrelevant to FTTC speeds - as the poster says, it is only the distance from the cabinet that matters and even that won't give you anything more important than the estimates you have.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 02-Nov-14 12:47:15)

I've not read every post so sorry if this has been asked before.
Is there any reason they need infinaty? I can skype on 1.4Mb, OK they might want more if then going on to use iPlayer, but whats the local ADSL like?

In reply to a post by burble:

I've not read every post so sorry if this has been asked before.
Is there any reason they need infinaty? I can skype on 1.4Mb, OK they might want more if then going on to use iPlayer, but whats the local ADSL like?

We've used Skype before with people on mid-grade ADSL (we had it ourselves for a while) and it does tend to break up a bit, with the quality going up and down. Given that fibre isn't much more expensive, we thought it would be a safer option.

FTTC is definitely better for video calling thanks to the significantly higher upstream.

One tip to get more out of an iPad: I personally use an Apple Wireless keyboard. Not only does it make typing a joy, it also means you have a lot more screen space for the content you're editing. Any Bluetooth keyboard should work just fine.

LOL

I've got one, at great expense when I bought my first tablet - an iPad Air.

Used it 3-4 days at the start, and now it needs an inch of dust removing before it could be used . I keep wondering f I should eBay it but can't be bothered.