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Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 31-Jan-16 22:58:03
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Myths exploded


[link to this post]
 
Myth 1. No, the HH5A doesn't reset after 14 days uptime.

Myth 2. No sign on G.INP on the HH5A.

4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime: 17 days, 07:24:35
6. Data rate: 19999 / 75356
7. Maximum data rate: 23325 / 3518535
8. Noise margin: 15.1 / 6.2
9. Line attenuation: 14.7 / 11.1
10. Signal attenuation: 14.7 / 11.1

I wish my data rate was nearer to my max.
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 31-Jan-16 23:07:04
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Is there a thread this random post belongs to?

BT Infinity 1 (unlimited)
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 31-Jan-16 23:10:18
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: gomezz] [link to this post]
 
It's a new post. You probably wouldn't know about those as you don't make any.


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Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 31-Jan-16 23:27:32
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
What happened to being friendly to other people?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User gomezz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 31-Jan-16 23:46:36
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
A new post which sounds like an old post. Is there a history?

BT Infinity 1 (unlimited)
Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Feb-16 00:04:33
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Myth 1. No, the HH5A doesn't reset after 14 days uptime.

Myth 2. No sign on G.INP on the HH5A.

4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime: 17 days, 07:24:35
6. Data rate: 19999 / 75356
7. Maximum data rate: 23325 / 3518535
8. Noise margin: 15.1 / 6.2
9. Line attenuation: 14.7 / 11.1
10. Signal attenuation: 14.7 / 11.1

I wish my data rate was nearer to my max.


Nope.... still don't see the proof that G.INP isn't supported by the HH5a.... and based on the max attainable you hubs giving I would say it was a dud!

Though it is funny how daesh your being on the subject by creating a whole new thread with such a cocky title and attitude...

PS. If your line was really capable of anything above 75356kbps downstream your noise margin would be considerably higher than 6.2....

I honestly think your HH5a is a bit of a dud or you have a line fault causing misreads...

or maybe the HH5a is more capable than we first thought and actually supports G.Fast too smile

6. Data Rate: 19999 / 79987
7.Maximum Data Rate: 28822 / 106608
8.Noise Margin: 14.9 / 13.8
9. Line Attenuation: 19.5 / 16.5


That's right, my lines longer than your too tongue

Edited by mlmclaren (Mon 01-Feb-16 00:09:03)

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 01-Feb-16 07:48:08
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Sorry, only joking blush
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 01-Feb-16 07:51:41
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
PS. If your line was really capable of anything above 75356kbps downstream your noise margin would be considerably higher than 6.2....
Yes, my line is capable of the full 80/20 when G.INP is on.

Meanwhile, the search for G.INP on the HH5A continues....
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Mon 01-Feb-16 10:12:42
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Heaven knows what those weird stats means, but quite what you can read into that as regards g.inp I have no idea.

I was also unaware of any stories that the HH5A didn't reset every 14 days. I have both an HH5A and an HH5B and both do exactly the same thing and reset on a 14 day cycle. As far as I know it's always been like that.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 01-Feb-16 10:48:35
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
It's obvious from the stats that my HH5A has not reset on 14 days. It's also obvious that G.INP is not on as my connection syncs at 80000 when it's on.

I'll report my HH5A as broken and get a replacement. Currently on hold as they ARE very busy at the moment.
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Feb-16 11:56:45
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
It's obvious from the stats that my HH5A has not reset on 14 days.

Well I know my HH4A reboots nearly every 14 days, I think it might checking how long its taking to do stuff internally and if its becoming a bit slower than usual it does an IPC Reboot, which is why it can and has lasted 19 days a few times.
Or it might detect an issue and schedules a IPC Reboot, I know the Home Hubs are always receiving settings and maybe one of those tell it to do the reboot.

The annoying thing is it doesn't check if anyone is using the connection before doing the reboot, I once had it reboot on me when I was downloading 36GB and it seems it got about 34GB when it did the reboot, sadly the server didn't support resume frown

And it takes forever to download that over an ADSLx connection with a few Mbps.
So whenever I have to download a huge file(s) I wait till after the reboot.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:
I'll report my HH5A as broken and get a replacement. Currently on hold as they ARE very busy at the moment.

Yeah I was in a queue for 37 mins on last Saturday.

Paul
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Mon 01-Feb-16 12:26:34
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
My HH always rebooted 14 days in - had 4 of them over the years HH4 and HH5.
Standard User professor973
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Feb-16 12:32:58
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Don't be silly - It's TBB!
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 01-Feb-16 13:33:11
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
My HH always rebooted 14 days in - had 4 of them over the years HH4 and HH5.

Same on my HH4, just had my latest this morning:


Text
1
23
00:45:55, 01 Feb.       (1213164.140000) The system is going DOWN for reboot.
00:45:55, 01 Feb.       (1213164.140000) OpenRG is going for reboot by IPC command00:45:50, 01 Feb.       (1213159.140000) OpenRG will go down for reboot in 5 seconds


The seconds uptime value in brackets converted to days is 14.0 days.

Oliver.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 01-Feb-16 14:37:21
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
My HH always rebooted 14 days in - had 4 of them over the years HH4 and HH5.

Same on my HH4, just had my latest this morning:


Text
1
23
00:45:55, 01 Feb.       (1213164.140000) The system is going DOWN for reboot.
00:45:55, 01 Feb.       (1213164.140000) OpenRG is going for reboot by IPC command00:45:50, 01 Feb.       (1213159.140000) OpenRG will go down for reboot in 5 seconds


The seconds uptime value in brackets converted to days is 14.0 days.


Is it? I have always understood there to be 1209600 seconds in 14 days.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 01-Feb-16 14:44:01
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
Is it? I have always understood there to be 1209600 seconds in 14 days.

14.04 days, near enough to be attributable to the 14 day reboot cycle which I've observed ever since I got my HH4.

Oliver.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 01-Feb-16 15:02:35
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
BT say my Homehub is working perfectly and refuse to replace it with a new one - so far.
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Feb-16 15:07:08
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
BT say my Homehub is working perfectly and refuse to replace it with a new one - so far.
Well TBH, I would be using my FRITZ!Box 3390 box, but where we have been having connection issues I have had to had my HH4A connected.

Paul
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Feb-16 15:16:03
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
In reply to a post by ukhardy07:
My HH always rebooted 14 days in - had 4 of them over the years HH4 and HH5.

Same on my HH4, just had my latest this morning:


Text
1
23
00:45:55, 01 Feb.       (1213164.140000) The system is going DOWN for reboot.
00:45:55, 01 Feb.       (1213164.140000) OpenRG is going for reboot by IPC command00:45:50, 01 Feb.       (1213159.140000) OpenRG will go down for reboot in 5 seconds


The seconds uptime value in brackets converted to days is 14.0 days.


Is it? I have always understood there to be 1209600 seconds in 14 days.
Agreed.

1213164.140000 would be about 14.04125162 days.
or
14D 0H 59M 24S 140mS if you want to be exact LOL

Paul
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 01-Feb-16 15:23:00
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
14D 0H 59M 24S 140mS if you want to be exact LOL

Seems like in this instance the reboot was delayed by an hour (less 36 seconds, for the apparent pedants among us).

Oliver.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 01-Feb-16 15:24:15
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
Result - they have agreed to refresh the firmware on the Homehub smile
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Feb-16 15:28:47
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Result - they have agreed to refresh the firmware on the Homehub smile

nice smile

Shame I only have a HH4A LOL

Paul
Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Feb-16 16:10:52
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Have you made note of the firmware versions and have they done this yet?

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 01-Feb-16 16:11:33
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
They said they would call me when it's been done.
Standard User alexatkin
(regular) Mon 01-Feb-16 16:19:49
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
PS. If your line was really capable of anything above 75356kbps downstream your noise margin would be considerably higher than 6.2....
Yes, my line is capable of the full 80/20 when G.INP is on.

Meanwhile, the search for G.INP on the HH5A continues....


Consistently? Because don't forget temperature and crosstalk cause fluctuations so with your SNR being bang so close to the target it seems unlikely you would consistently get a higher sync at any time of the day.

That said, why are you using the HH5A if you think it sucks? Use a better device and think yourself lucky, I'm on an ECI cabinet so no G.INP anyway.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 01-Feb-16 16:25:59
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: alexatkin] [link to this post]
 
I'm using it because I'm mythbusting smile
Standard User professor973
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Feb-16 17:24:11
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Fourth post here says there is firmware in the wild.
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2066551
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 01-Feb-16 17:28:16
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: professor973] [link to this post]
 
Lots of people post things like that on forums with no evidence. Those are the myths I'm referring to smile
Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Feb-16 22:14:59
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
BT... Call the customer??? that'll be a first

Standard User MCM
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Feb-16 22:16:32
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Myths perhaps but nothing you have posted in this thread to date has in any way dispelled those "myths" or confirmed your views.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 01-Feb-16 22:25:47
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
Really? My Homehub didn't reset after 14 days. Did yours?
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 01-Feb-16 22:36:13
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
Well that's what the chap in Exeter said... smile
Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 01-Feb-16 22:47:38
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Really? My Homehub didn't reset after 14 days. Did yours?


Well my connection has been live for 8 days say 6 to go I suppose...

However isn't the reboot tributes by BT sending a command rather than hardware?

Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Mon 01-Feb-16 22:58:39
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
This is the boot log for the last few months off of my HH5 A which shows reboots at 14 day intervals (give or take the odd hour). There's an anomaly in November when I (temporarily) tried my HH5 B (normally at another property) so it was turned off for a couple of days. The HH5 B shows the same pattern (but I don't have remote access to it so can't post it yet).

The only real difference in performance between the HH5A and the HH5B is I get about 10% faster upload sync with the latter (on the same line that is). Both are on Huawei cabinets.

13:52:05, 01 Feb. ( 35.390000) System up, firmware version: 4.7.5.1.83.8.204.1.11 (Type A)
13:51:46, 01 Feb. ( 16.310000) System start
13:28:57, 18 Jan. ( 35.410000) System up, firmware version: 4.7.5.1.83.8.204.1.11 (Type A)
13:28:38, 18 Jan. ( 16.290000) System start
13:05:41, 04 Jan. ( 35.300000) System up, firmware version: 4.7.5.1.83.8.204.1.11 (Type A)
13:05:22, 04 Jan. ( 16.280000) System start
12:42:21, 21 Dec. ( 35.260000) System up, firmware version: 4.7.5.1.83.8.204.1.11 (Type A)
12:42:02, 21 Dec. ( 16.290000) System start
12:19:03, 07 Dec. ( 35.290000) System up, firmware version: 4.7.5.1.83.8.204.1.11 (Type A)
12:18:44, 07 Dec. ( 16.320000) System start
11:54:45, 23 Nov. ( 35.470000) System up, firmware version: 4.7.5.1.83.8.204.1.11 (Type A)
11:54:26, 23 Nov. ( 16.270000) System start
20:39:51, 14 Nov. ( 36.030000) System up, firmware version: 4.7.5.1.83.8.204.1.11 (Type A)
20:39:31, 14 Nov. ( 16.290000) System start
20:15:38, 31 Oct. ( 35.200000) System up, firmware version: 4.7.5.1.83.8.204.1.11 (Type A)
20:15:19, 31 Oct. ( 16.220000) System start
Standard User MCM
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 02-Feb-16 02:24:11
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
No but I see clear evidence being posted here and elsewhere that for very many users the HomeHub does reboot at regular 14 day intervals. Shame that you are too stubborn and blinkered to accept the logs of others.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 02-Feb-16 08:23:30
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MCM:
No but I see clear evidence being posted here and elsewhere that for very many users the HomeHub does reboot at regular 14 day intervals.
So do I. But mine doesn't.
Standard User keith969
(member) Tue 02-Feb-16 09:42:26
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TheEulerID:
The only real difference in performance between the HH5A and the HH5B is I get about 10% faster upload sync with the latter (on the same line that is). Both are on Huawei cabinets.


If I use a HG612 as a modem and the HH5 as just a router / WAP I get about 10% faster upload - same download. I'm guessing this is because G.INP is working on the HG612 (am on a Huawei cab)?

BT Infinity 2, 43mbs down 9mbs up
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Tue 02-Feb-16 11:14:54
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: keith969] [link to this post]
 
The evidence (and my experience on HH5 A & B) seems to be that the HH5 A only support g.inp on downstream, not upstream. This is consistent with the statement of on this website, that the HH5 A only partially supports g.inp.

"Latest! Because some modems (e.g. the BT Home Hub 5 Type A are incompatible with the full implementation of G.INP, BT has now implemented G.INP on the downlink only)."

http://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/g.inp
Standard User iand
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 02-Feb-16 18:16:44
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
I must remember to remove the debug code from the router image when I update it next smile

IanD
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 02-Feb-16 22:46:47
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TheEulerID:
The evidence (and my experience on HH5 A & B) seems to be that the HH5 A only support g.inp on downstream, not upstream. This is consistent with the statement of on this website, that the HH5 A only partially supports g.inp.

"Latest! Because some modems (e.g. the BT Home Hub 5 Type A are incompatible with the full implementation of G.INP, BT has now implemented G.INP on the downlink only)."

http://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/g.inp
Unfortunately, in common with a lot of unofficial 3rd party forums, that is incorrect. G.INP can be on both the downstream and the upstream.

Edited by BatBoy (Tue 02-Feb-16 22:47:36)

Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Wed 03-Feb-16 09:25:29
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
That is my experience now, but I suspect it may have been a quick workaround and now the systems have been updated so that g.inp are supported up & down according to the capability of the modem. To have that adaptive capability may have taken some changes to the configuration software.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Wed 03-Feb-16 09:45:03
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
So you concede what you posted is wrong wink
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 03-Feb-16 11:30:24
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
It was right at the time it was added to the article. That was the first fix so that ECI modems on Huawei cabs didn't lose 20Mbps or so.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59504/15641kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 03-Feb-16 13:18:16
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Hope I haven't lost track here, but are you saying the ECI Modems have now been updated to support G.INP in both direction's?

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 03-Feb-16 13:27:56
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
No, I'm not.

I'm pointing out the date of the linked article and the fact that the problem was diagnosed as the upstream G.INP on Huawei cabinets knocked ECI modems for six. So upstream was disabled - as per the "Latest" addition to the article.

That was why I said "It was right at the time it was added to the article". I didn't and don't say anything about the position now.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59504/15641kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 03-Feb-16 13:31:56)

Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 03-Feb-16 13:36:48
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Right, thanks for clearing that up..

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Wed 03-Feb-16 20:29:22
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Upstream was never disabled. It was changed so it came on a couple of weeks after downstream.
Standard User Alnath
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 04-Feb-16 09:50:11
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: professor973] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by professor973:
Fourth post here says there is firmware in the wild.
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2066551


That post is nearly a year old and was very likely referring to 4.7.5.1.83.8.204.1.11
Standard User Alnath
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 04-Feb-16 09:53:15
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Alnath] [link to this post]
 
Oh, and my HH5 reboots every 14 days as well.
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Thu 04-Feb-16 10:16:46
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
No, it changes nothing. What I linked to is a report that upstream g.inp had been disabled due to compatibility issues. That was some time ago, and it seems to me that upstream g.inop has been enabled where the customer's modem is capable of supporting it. That would fit with my experience that the HH5A syncs about 10% slower than an HH5B in the upstream direction on the same line whilst the downstream on both are pretty well the same. Somebody else has also reported that the combination of a separate OR modem & HH5A gives about 10% more upstream throughput against an HH5A on its own but similar downstream.

Not definitive of course, but fairly strong evidence. Your HH5A seems to exhibit unusual symptoms, must notably not rebooting every 14 days (approximately) which everybody else seems to have noted.

So I would say there's decent evidence that the HH5A has some g.inp support, but it has some limitations too.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 04-Feb-16 19:35:46
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TheEulerID:
So I would say there's decent evidence that the HH5A has some g.inp support, but it has some limitations too.
We have already seen where the maximum sync on the HH5A on a Huawei cab is exactly the same sync speed on a HG612 on a Huawei cab with G.INP disabled. This is strong evidence that the HH5A operates with G.INP turned off - the HH5A does not support G.INP.
Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 04-Feb-16 23:02:51
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
If your line hasn't got G.INP enabled, doesn't mean your hub don't support it... just means your line like mine doesn't need it on...

Have you left any G.INP capable (HG612) connected to the line so that G.INP can be activated then removed it and checked how the HH5a reacts to it??

Also have you tried your HH5a on any other lines with G.INP enabled or connected to G.INP capable DSLAM (Huawei)

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 04-Feb-16 23:08:02
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
When I connect my HG612 then G.INP is enabled and my line syncs at max speed. When I connect my HH5A then G.INP is turned off and no attempt is made to turn it on.
Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 04-Feb-16 23:39:14
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
SO it immediately deactivates upon connection of your hub... how do you know this... its don't sound right, it would normally stick on until DLM changed it again

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 04-Feb-16 23:42:05
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
How could it stay on and active if the user modem didn't support it? It has to sync with Bearer 1 set up.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59504/15641kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 05-Feb-16 09:54:09)

Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 04-Feb-16 23:46:07
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
The modem can still sync with G.INP it just mistakes it for a high/weird INP level

Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 05-Feb-16 01:21:47
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
So your opinion on the HH5a's status with G.INP has changed since last June then...

In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Yes, they haven't and I don't think they will.

BT Openreach have helpfully turned off G.INP on the upstream for everyone to mask their buddies, BT Consumer, problems with the HH5A's.
In reference to aastatus.net/2127:
Update
Wednesday 10:36:31 Apologise for the delay in updating this post. BT have confirmed that all trial lines have been loaded with the new profiles, further to this BT have confirmed that all other affected lines have now had the new profiles loaded. That is all lines across all providers.


Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 05-Feb-16 08:16:52
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
That's right. It changed as soon as G.INP came back on my upstream 2 weeks later.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 05-Feb-16 08:26:51
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
The modem can still sync with G.INP it just mistakes it for a high/weird INP level
Maybe that was what happened when G.INP first went live and all users on Huawei cabs using ECI modems or the HH5A lost around 10Mbps of downstream speed and experienced large amounts of latency?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 05-Feb-16 09:50:34
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
What I meant was that Bearer 1 has to exist and is set up during the sync. Not that sync didn't happen. Without Bearer 1 there is no G.INP active.

Edit: I've edited the earlier post to clarify.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59504/15641kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 05-Feb-16 09:54:32)

Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Fri 05-Feb-16 10:10:37
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
g.inp does not, in itself, enable higher sync speeds. However, it does largely avoid the need for interleaving (or at least some of the more aggressive interleaving) which most definitely does impact on sync speeds. Also, as g.inp improves stability then it could, in theory, allow for a lower SNR margin.

Most of the changes I saw in the week or so after the local cabinet was enabled for g.inp was due to interleaving being switched on for a while. What I can say for absolute certain is that since it was enabled on the cabinet, the line stability has improved radically and it went from being an average of one resync a day to none. The only time it now resyncs is when on the approximately 14 day reboot.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 05-Feb-16 10:27:36
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TheEulerID:
g.inp does not, in itself, enable higher sync speeds. However, it does largely avoid the need for interleaving (or at least some of the more aggressive interleaving) which most definitely does impact on sync speeds.
Not forgetting INP (Impulse Noise Protection) which inflates the data stream with error correction data
Also, as g.inp improves stability then it could, in theory, allow for a lower SNR margin.
How does G.INP improve stability? I notice the target margin remains at 6
Most of the changes I saw in the week or so after the local cabinet was enabled for g.inp was due to interleaving being switched on for a while. What I can say for absolute certain is that since it was enabled on the cabinet, the line stability has improved radically and it went from being an average of one resync a day to none.
perhaps fixes have been applied to your line?
The only time it now resyncs is when on the approximately 14 day reboot.
which is very inconvenient if it happens when you are doing something such as gaming, making a call, watching a film.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 05-Feb-16 12:43:22
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I just rang BT for an update on this. They apologised for not getting back to me but have left notes on the fault so the person dealing with it, who's not in today, will ring me back with an update about when it will be fixed. Currently my uptime on my HH5A is

DSL uptime: 21 days, 21:14:57
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 05-Feb-16 14:26:20
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
DSL uptime: 21 days, 21:14:57

Well the last time our HH4A did the reboot it was up for:
1289532.990000 = 14D 22H 12M 12S 990mS

We have been up this time for about 14 days, 16:49:04.

So in theory we are possibly due a reboot soon.

I think its like I said if they detect X amount of errors or sluggish in the HH it schedules it for reboot, so that the HH and connection stays stable.

Paul
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 05-Feb-16 14:42:11
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
I think its like I said if they detect X amount of errors or sluggish in the HH it schedules it for reboot, so that the HH and connection stays stable.

What's the PPP uptime? Maybe it works off that (which can be less than the DSL uptime of course).

Oliver.
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Fri 05-Feb-16 15:13:48
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
g.inp does not add much of an overhead (unlike interleaving). Interleaving puts a whole lot of error correction data into the stream (in the time domain, hence the increase in latency). Unfortunately, it's a big overhead as most of that error correcting data will never be used, but it's transmitted anyway just in case. It's called "forward correcting" as all the redundancy information required for error correction is forwarded to the destination and there is no need (or even opportunity) to go back to the source.

In contrast, g.inp is a low-level on demand error correction protocol that works at the link level. Effectively it's a selective retransmission system where errors are detected at the far end of a link. It only introduces a delay for data that has been corrupted (which will be very much the exception) and the overhead is much, much lower for all but any retransmitted data.

g,inp increases the stability of the line simply because it can tolerate impulse noise better than if it isn't there (and interleaving isn't imposed). That means it will suffer fewer resyncs than an "unprotected" link as it can survive short glitches. It can thus tolerate a lower level SNR margin (or, alternatively, you might view it as being more reliable at the same SNR margin). Of course, interleaving can achieve this too, but at the penalty of a large overhead of error correction data and increased latency on all packets.

I have to emphasise these are link-level protocols between the two modems, and nothing to do with any error detection and retransmission in the higher level protocols (such as the e2e detection/retransmission in TCP).
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 05-Feb-16 15:24:58
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
I think its like I said if they detect X amount of errors or sluggish in the HH it schedules it for reboot, so that the HH and connection stays stable.

What's the PPP uptime? Maybe it works off that (which can be less than the DSL uptime of course).
Not really checked, but its normally the same minus a few seconds.
Well unless BT internal network has an issue, which we have had on and off for the last few months, where we loose PPP connection but still remained synced up.

Paul
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 06-Feb-16 19:00:35
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
Well unless BT internal network has an issue, which we have had on and off for the last few months, where we loose PPP connection but still remained synced up.

According to the BT forum, PPP drops without sync drops is quite a common occurrence for some people, e.g: https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity-Speed-Connec...

Oliver.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sat 06-Feb-16 19:23:33
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
As far as I can see, if you have a damaged packet, you have a damaged packet and all the interleaving in the world can't fix that.
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Sat 06-Feb-16 22:30:29
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Packets are at a higher level in the comms stack. Link level protocols have there own error detection and recovery systems working at the frame level, which is what interleaving, g.in etc. are for. It will therefore never be seen as a corrupt IP packet. Of course, the occasional corrupt packet will be detected in it's passage through the Internet, as no system is perfect, but the link level error recovery systems seek to minimise this as significant levels of packet corruption are disastrous. Also, TCP/IP packet level error detection has significant weaknesses.

Edit

This is how interleaving works. Annoyingly, they call frames packets, but never mind.


kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm

And while you are at it, look at the item kitz has on open reach and g.inp where it is explicitly stated, following an interview with an engineer from the company that says g.inp is supported upstream selectively for those modems which support it, but this is a later mod to the system. That is exactly what I've said all along.

Edited by TheEulerID (Sat 06-Feb-16 22:47:25)

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sat 06-Feb-16 22:52:17
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
The point is, you need forward error correction as well as interleaving to fix transmission errors.

and, as per your edit, we have already seen where the sync speed on the HH5A on a Huawei cab is exactly the same as the sync speed on a HG612 on a Huawei cab with G.INP disabled

Edited by BatBoy (Sat 06-Feb-16 22:55:31)

Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 06-Feb-16 23:05:05
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
That's right. It changed as soon as G.INP came back on my upstream 2 weeks later.


AFAIK the upstream was turned off completely until recently, the new rollout though may well of been tweaked so that DSLAM's take into consideration CPE's chips and compatibility.

I know that upstream retransmission wasn't enabled on my line in December before moving home, and my line was one to get it and then lose it when the fix for ECI/Lantiq problems was rolled out...

So the point here is that Lantiq chipsets do support G.INP.... TP-Link confirmed that and I'm almost sure that the same xDSL chip in the TP-Link W8890 matches that that is either in the ECI modem or the BT HH5a (and potentially PN H1)

Whether any updates to Lantiq based products has been done to make it further capable with G.INP (Upstream) I'm unaware though have seen a recent post with regards to some sort of upgrades to the ECI DSLAM's

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sat 06-Feb-16 23:12:28
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
That's right. It changed as soon as G.INP came back on my upstream 2 weeks later.


AFAIK the upstream was turned off completely until recently, the new rollout though may well of been tweaked so that DSLAM's take into consideration CPE's chips and compatibility.
I believe that would be too complex to achieve. Far easier to turn G.INP off altogether.

I am intrigued by your missing 12 kbps.
Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 06-Feb-16 23:23:25
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
I am intrigued by your missing 12 kbps.


I am also, however I've noticed it to be a BT thing and applied to new connections over the last few months, obviously a DLM profile of some sort...

I'm not going to complain over losing 12Kb/s... I'll wait until the next waive of VDSL2 activations in my building and then [censored] about crosstalk I suppose, though maybe G.INP will activate and gimme a wee boost to compensate laugh

Did BT ever push that firmware in the end, and does your helpdesk stats still claim such a high attainable downstream figure like it did at the top?

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sat 06-Feb-16 23:29:47
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
Did BT ever push that firmware in the end, and does your helpdesk stats still claim such a high attainable downstream figure like it did at the top?
Not yet. BT don't work week-ends - including Fridays, but I'll chase it up next week. My stats are unchanged with the exception of the uptime which merrily increments.
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Sat 06-Feb-16 23:31:35
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
For heaven sake, I've said interleaving uses FEC. It uses a distribution in the time domain of redundant data to allow error correction even when impulse noise wipes out short stretches. The kitz item on g.inp support in Openreach confirms what I said that downstream support is compulsory (which is what the HH5 A does) whilst upstream g.inp is optional.
Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 06-Feb-16 23:34:29
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Just reminded me to check to see if I had a reboot of any sort... however I've not had my HH up for 14 days without disconnecting it from power for some reason or other

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sat 06-Feb-16 23:34:57
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TheEulerID:
For heaven sake, I've said interleaving uses FEC.
where?
The kitz item on g.inp support in Openreach confirms what I said that downstream support is compulsory (which is what the HH5 A does
n't)

Edited by BatBoy (Sat 06-Feb-16 23:35:52)

Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-16 02:12:24
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
In reply to a post by TheEulerID:
For heaven sake, I've said interleaving uses FEC.
where?
The kitz item on g.inp support in Openreach confirms what I said that downstream support is compulsory (which is what the HH5 A does
n't)


You have already said it does support G.INP.... you haven't provided any evidence to suggest it doesn't, all you've provided is invalid statistics that show impossible achievement's and also irregularities in your hub compared to others....

I'm saying it's capable after my own testing, others have tested and say its capable, the certification of the device says it capable... all your doing at the moment is giving out inaccurate information and not even considering the facts or contributions made by others...

Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Sun 07-Feb-16 07:39:51
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
OK. Here's what I wrote in reply to you at 15:13:48 on Friday 5th (quoted in part as there's other stuff about g.inp). I assume you actually read it as you did leave a reply.

In reply to a post by TheEulerID:
g.inp does not add much of an overhead (unlike interleaving). Interleaving puts a whole lot of error correction data into the stream (in the time domain, hence the increase in latency). Unfortunately, it's a big overhead as most of that error correcting data will never be used, but it's transmitted anyway just in case. It's called "forward correcting" as all the redundancy information required for error correction is forwarded to the destination and there is no need (or even opportunity) to go back to the source.


http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/bt/t/4462964-re-myt...

As for you continuing to maintain that the HH5A does not support downstream g.inp, then that's your opinion, but at odd with what I've found and what the interview with the BT guy on Kitz. The OR guy clearly says that all modems support downstream g.inp, but upstream is optional. The sequence of events he describes, with the temporary imposition of interleaving during the implementation phase of g.inp is absolutely precisely what I saw on my own line at the time.

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/ginp-retransmission.htm
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 07-Feb-16 07:50:44
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by TheEulerID:
OK. Here's what I wrote in reply to you at 15:13:48 on Friday 5th (quoted in part as there's other stuff about g.inp). I assume you actually read it as you did leave a reply.

In reply to a post by TheEulerID:
g.inp does not add much of an overhead (unlike interleaving). Interleaving puts a whole lot of error correction data into the stream (in the time domain, hence the increase in latency). Unfortunately, it's a big overhead as most of that error correcting data will never be used, but it's transmitted anyway just in case. It's called "forward correcting" as all the redundancy information required for error correction is forwarded to the destination and there is no need (or even opportunity) to go back to the source.


http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/bt/t/4462964-re-myt...

As for you continuing to maintain that the HH5A does not support downstream g.inp, then that's your opinion, but at odd with what I've found and what the interview with the BT guy on Kitz. The OR guy clearly says that all modems support downstream g.inp, but upstream is optional. The sequence of events he describes, with the temporary imposition of interleaving during the implementation phase of g.inp is absolutely precisely what I saw on my own line at the time.

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/ginp-retransmission.htm
tl;dr;
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 07-Feb-16 07:52:11
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
I think the sync speed being the same on a HH5A as on a HG612 with G.INP turned off is enough evidence that the HH5A doesn't support G.INP.
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Sun 07-Feb-16 10:51:08
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
So that gnomic response (which I had to look up) means you couldn't be bothered to read it yet decided to reply anyway? I wonder what else you don't bother reading.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 07-Feb-16 11:08:52
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
I mean I take your verbosity as an attempt to obscure so I ignore it.
Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Sun 07-Feb-16 11:14:16
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I go to some lengths to explain why g.inp imposes only a small sync data overhead as opposed to interleaving for dealing with the same issue of impulse noise, and you dismiss it as obfuscation? Your arrogance is astonishing.

Edited by TheEulerID (Sun 07-Feb-16 11:14:40)

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 07-Feb-16 11:15:35
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
I thought Impulse Noise Protection was dealt with by INP not Interleaving?
Standard User mlmclaren
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 07-Feb-16 11:35:34
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
I think the sync speed being the same on a HH5A as on a HG612 with G.INP turned off is enough evidence that the HH5A doesn't support G.INP.


Well... its not... and following your previous comments on this thread I no longer have the 30 seconds on the day to keep on playing the same old soundtrack...

I've contacted a higher power for their opinion on the matter, and from here on out I will make sure you don't keep telling people incorrect information....

Standard User TheEulerID
(committed) Sun 07-Feb-16 11:41:53
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Both deal with impulse noise, just in different ways. Interleaving by spreading extra redundant error correction information across the time domain (with a substantial overhead in bandwidth and latency), whilst g.inp does it by having a retransmission system that works at the link level. Hence why so much bandwidth is lost when interleaving is turned on whilst g.inp has a negligible bandwidth overhead.

Note that interleaving can be imposed with different levels of overhead.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 07-Feb-16 11:46:19
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
I will keep searching for proof one way or the other about the level of G.INP support provided by the HH5A regardless smile
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 07-Feb-16 11:48:43
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: TheEulerID] [link to this post]
 
I also note that INP can be imposed on fastpath as well as interleaved.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 11-Feb-16 18:58:37
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
So, no phone call, no fix, no change

DSL uptime: 28 days, 03:27:49
Data rate: 19999 / 75356
Maximum data rate: 23735 / 2986830

I rang BT for an update and they didn't appear to know what I was on about. They have passed it back to Exeter who will look at it for the next 3 days.
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 12-Feb-16 08:09:06
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
So, no phone call, no fix, no change

DSL uptime: 28 days, 03:27:49
Data rate: 19999 / 75356
Maximum data rate: 23735 / 2986830

I rang BT for an update and they didn't appear to know what I was on about. They have passed it back to Exeter who will look at it for the next 3 days.
This is just typical for BT, they never read any of the notes entered by the last person that you spoke to.

Its the same for when BT pass information onto BTOR, BTOR never reads any of the information and either just assumes here or just reads from a card.

As for uptime, here was how long my HH4A was up before it received to config value to do its reboot.
09:37:20, 07 Feb. ( 130.080000) NTP synchronization success!
08:37:53, 07 Feb. ( 142.800000) CWMP: session completed successfully
08:37:53, 07 Feb. ( 142.360000) CWMP: HTTP authentication success from https://pbthdm.bt.mo
09:37:14, 07 Feb. ( 124.280000) CWMP: Server URL: https://pbthdm.bt.mo; Connecting as user: ACS username
09:37:14, 07 Feb. ( 124.270000) CWMP: Session start now. Event code(s): '1 BOOT,4 VALUE CHANGE'
09:37:12, 07 Feb. ( 122.600000) NTP synchronization start
09:37:09, 07 Feb. ( 119.920000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
09:37:09, 07 Feb. ( 119.910000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
09:37:09, 07 Feb. ( 119.900000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
09:37:07, 07 Feb. ( 117.660000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
09:37:07, 07 Feb. ( 117.660000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
09:37:07, 07 Feb. ( 117.130000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
09:37:07, 07 Feb. ( 117.130000) WAN operating mode is DSL
09:37:07, 07 Feb. ( 117.130000) Last WAN operating mode was DSL
09:37:05, 07 Feb. ( 115.620000) PPPoA is up - VPI: 0, VCI:38
09:37:05, 07 Feb. ( 115.610000) CHAP authentication successful
09:37:05, 07 Feb. ( 115.550000) CHAP Receive Challenge
09:37:05, 07 Feb. ( 115.550000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
09:37:05, 07 Feb. ( 115.550000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
09:37:05, 07 Feb. ( 115.530000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
09:37:05, 07 Feb. ( 115.530000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
09:37:05, 07 Feb. ( 115.530000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
09:37:05, 07 Feb. ( 115.530000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
09:37:05, 07 Feb. ( 115.370000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
09:37:02, 07 Feb. ( 112.220000) ETHoA is up - VPI: 0, VCI:35
09:37:02, 07 Feb. ( 112.220000) DSL is up
09:37:01, 07 Feb. ( 111.110000) DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 6.00 dB downstream
09:37:00, 07 Feb. ( 110.100000) DSL line rate: 1068 Kbps upstream, 6581 Kbps downstream
09:36:45, 07 Feb. ( 95.670000) CWMP: session closed due to error: No response
09:36:45, 07 Feb. ( 95.670000) CWMP: Initializing transaction for event code 4 VALUE CHANGE
09:36:44, 07 Feb. ( 93.930000) CWMP: Server URL: https://pbthdm.bt.mo; Connecting as user: ACS username
09:36:43, 07 Feb. ( 93.920000) CWMP: Session start now. Event code(s): '1 BOOT,4 VALUE CHANGE'
09:36:12, 07 Feb. ( 62.810000) CWMP: session closed due to error: No response
09:36:06, 07 Feb. STP Alert: Port eth0 leaving blocking state.
09:36:05, 07 Feb. ( 55.430000) CWMP: Server URL: https://pbthdm.bt.mo; Connecting as user: ACS username
09:36:05, 07 Feb. ( 55.430000) CWMP: Session start now. Event code(s): '1 BOOT,4 VALUE CHANGE'
09:36:04, 07 Feb. ( 54.620000) CWMP: Initializing transaction for event code 1 BOOT
09:36:02, 07 Feb. ( 52.370000) Wire Lan Port 1 up
09:36:00, 07 Feb. ( 50.750000) WAN Auto-sensing running.
09:35:57, 07 Feb. ( 47.750000) System up, firmware version: 4.7.5.1.83.8.130.1.26.1.1 (Type A)
09:35:31, 07 Feb. ( 21.730000) System start
08:35:09, 07 Feb. (1422777.460000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]
08:35:08, 07 Feb. (1422775.520000) The system is going DOWN for reboot.
08:35:08, 07 Feb. (1422775.520000) OpenRG is going for reboot by IPC command
08:35:04, 07 Feb. (1422771.580000) System Error Failed SD-100 (1)
08:35:03, 07 Feb. (1422770.520000) OpenRG will go down for reboot in 5 seconds
Soo, 1422770.520000 works out to 16D 11H 12M 50S 520mS uptime.

Granted mine is a HH4 Type A version that might be completely different to the one you have.

Paul
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 12-Feb-16 13:24:58
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
09:36:12, 07 Feb. ( 62.810000) CWMP: session closed due to error: No response

Another sign the HH4 is not too smart, CWMP attempts to connect to the ACS before the line is even connected up. Silly.

Oliver.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 12-Feb-16 17:29:52
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
So I rang BT again to find out how many more times this cycle would repeat and I got through to Exeter. It appears I may have read out the serial number incorrectly so mea culpa. Hopefully next week will bring a resolution or I'll try giving Gavin Patterson the benefit of my experience.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 15-Feb-16 10:15:24
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Just had a call from BT to say they are still looking at this.
Well, I'm still looking at it as well. Trouble is, no-one seems to be DOING anything.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 15-Feb-16 10:46:21
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Well stop looking at it and go and dig the garden or something.
tongue tongue wink

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59504/15641kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 15-Feb-16 10:52:17
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Maybe after I've finished this app. It will be Spring by then too smile
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 15-Feb-16 11:50:29
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Just had a call from BT to say they are still looking at this.
Well, I'm still looking at it as well. Trouble is, no-one seems to be DOING anything.
Well at least you didn't get the end of the month [censored] that I have been getting from BT.

Paul
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 15-Feb-16 13:33:42
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
What's the PPP uptime? Maybe it works off that (which can be less than the DSL uptime of course).

I tested this theory. I did a manual PPP disconnect/reconnect after 13 days, but the HH4 still rebooted after 14.01 days.

Oliver.

Edited by Oliver341 (Mon 15-Feb-16 13:33:59)

Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 15-Feb-16 16:38:13
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
What's the PPP uptime? Maybe it works off that (which can be less than the DSL uptime of course).

I tested this theory. I did a manual PPP disconnect/reconnect after 13 days, but the HH4 still rebooted after 14.01 days.
In another 13 days, try a power down and wait a couple mins and power back up and see if that reboots the next day, I am guessing it does, I know it did 3 times in a row on our HH4 on our ADSL2+ connection.

So either my connection is that [censored] and became unstable which is possible due to it is really a [censored] line or BT are sending configs to the HH that require it to do a reboot for them to become active.
I have noticed that when we have had loads of reconnects we have had loads of config changes before hand.

So if that's the case I might swap over to my FRITZ!BOX 3390 due to that never did any 14 day reboot [censored].

Paul
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 15-Feb-16 16:43:42
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
09:36:12, 07 Feb. ( 62.810000) CWMP: session closed due to error: No response

Another sign the HH4 is not too smart, CWMP attempts to connect to the ACS before the line is even connected up. Silly.
Yeah, but the HH might be checking if it has a connection first by trying to do a connection and when it fails it then knows its not connected LOL

Paul
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 15-Feb-16 17:03:22
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
Yeah, but the HH might be checking if it has a connection first by trying to do a connection and when it fails it then knows its not connected LOL

It could check if PPP is up. If PPP is down there's a pretty good chance it is not connected. wink

Only plausible explanation is to account for situations where the Hub is being used as a wireless access point/switch, in which case it would have internet access without PPP. But it should wait 5 minutes or so to let DSL/PPP do its thing first, since it uses PPP up as an event trigger for CWMP and NTP anyway.

Oliver.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sat 20-Feb-16 09:52:50
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
Good news (?) BT have agreed that a replacement HH5 is the way forward. Hopefully it will arrive in a few days.
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 20-Feb-16 11:27:23
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Good news (?) BT have agreed that a replacement HH5 is the way forward. Hopefully it will arrive in a few days.
Nice, lets see if that one is better smile

Paul
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 20-Feb-16 11:49:49
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
A 5A no doubt ... tongue.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59504/15641kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sat 20-Feb-16 12:02:07
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
It's pot luck I think. We'll see.
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 20-Feb-16 12:28:56
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
It's pot luck I think. We'll see.
Well if its a Type A, couldn't you use a crayon and scribble out the A and draw on a B tongue

Paul
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 20-Feb-16 12:42:02
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
Tsk, Tsk! How untidy, scribbling on it.

He should do it the proper way - erase it with chip fat.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59504/15641kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 20-Feb-16 12:50:29
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Tsk, Tsk! How untidy, scribbling on it.

He should do it the proper way - erase it with chip fat.
Well BatBoy might not have any tipex available, or have access to a laser etching machine tongue

So I thought the next best thing would be a crayon.

Paul
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 23-Feb-16 02:08:05
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Good news (?) BT have agreed that a replacement HH5 is the way forward. Hopefully it will arrive in a few days.
Talking about new HomeHubs, we have been loosing connections all over the place and our noise margin went from a stable 6.00 dB to a 9.1 dB dropping our speed by a fair amount and dropping our upstream by half.

So as normal I phoned BT... 30 mins in a queue, was greeted by BT India, explained everything and asked for our line to be reset, he said ok and did some checks and replied that there is nothing wrong with our line, even though it has bad static and screeching noise as you can hear here on the Quiet Line Test, this is how bad it gets when the line goes bad now and then.

He replied and said that the HH4A has reported faults and that they will send me out a new one for free, so result I guess.

I wonder if I will get a HH4B tongue

But that still doesn't resolve the crackling and static on our line.

Paul
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 23-Feb-16 08:23:30
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
That's a nice little HR fault you have there by the sound of it ......

Until that gets fixed there is no point in getting the profile reset.

Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Tue 23-Feb-16 12:05:34
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
Typical BT Customer Service then....

BTInfinity - 79999/19999kbps - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - BQM L1 - BQM L2
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Tue 23-Feb-16 12:06:43
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Good news (?) BT have agreed that a replacement HH5 is the way forward. Hopefully it will arrive in a few days.


Will more than likely be a 5B... :L

BTInfinity - 79999/19999kbps - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - BQM L1 - BQM L2
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 23-Feb-16 12:13:22
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
If it ever arrives...
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 23-Feb-16 13:48:34
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
That's a nice little HR fault you have there by the sound of it ......

Until that gets fixed there is no point in getting the profile reset.
Well its an intermittent fault, due to its fine for a while and then we hear all the crackling and it all goes to hell, and knowing our luck where its being intermittent we would get an engineer when its fine and get charged the £130 due to them not finding a fault.

And yeah I know its a waste of time having the line reset every time it gets bad (i.e. every couple of months) but I would rather do that then have to pay the £130 callout charge when they find nothing at that time.

Also where we are in the mists of getting FTTP, been 50 months in the making due to being part of the Commercial FTTP Project which seems to get pushed back in favour of BDUK work, which was another reason why we haven't reported it as a fault.

Did you hear the HH4 syncing up at 1min into the audio clip LOL, it dropped the connection when doing the quiet line test, so something isn't right.

Also the cable (CW1308) going from the BT80B Junction Box to the NTE5a Master Socket is falling apart, TBH I would replace that under my floor my self like I have in the past, but several years back the engineer pulled up all my lovely under the floor wiring and then tucked it under the carpet, yes I know that's a bad idea, but sadly that's what they did, and now that cable if falling apart.

But where FTTP is supposedly due to be completed very soon (classic End of the Month response) we was going to move voice over to FVA and at the same time have the BT80B, NTE5a boxes and copper line moved upstairs at the front of the house where the fibre would enter our house, that would leave me to rip up the old existing cables up and make it all neat and tidy.

Well that is the plan anyway.

Paul
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 23-Feb-16 13:51:20
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
Typical BT Customer Service then....
LOL, yeah, most of the time tongue

I told them we aren't paying for another HH4 and its postage, where the guy replied, not its all free due to being part of the contract.

What would be funny is that it would arrive and then a couple of weeks later our FTTP finally gets activated LOL.

Paul
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 23-Feb-16 14:06:26
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
Did you hear the HH4 syncing up at 1min into the audio clip LOL, it dropped the connection when doing the quiet line test, so something isn't right.

Another classic symptom.
And yeah I know its a waste of time having the line reset every time it gets bad (i.e. every couple of months) but I would rather do that then have to pay the £130 callout charge when they find nothing at that time.

Maybe you should be seeing if BT retail will raise a Boost task, you shouldn't be paying for that, and hopefully you'll get an engineer who listens.

Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Tue 23-Feb-16 14:55:48
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
If it ever arrives...


May I ask if BT has ever had your line profile reset in the past?

I've just looked at the original post again and can see some similarity between your stats and mine when my DSLAM actived Interleaving on my line... and despite both CPE and DSLAM being G.INP capable it didn't bother enablling it until BT had the line reset!

I'm wondering if your line was reset if it would of synced better like mine did!

BTInfinity - 79999/19999kbps - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - BQM L1 - BQM L2
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 23-Feb-16 14:58:07
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
I've put the modem in front of the HH5 and G.INP is on. The DLM hasn't been reset ever, I don't think.
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Tue 23-Feb-16 15:04:26
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Hmmm, OK... see what happens hen your new hub arrives I suppose though I think it will be a B model...

I think only Plusnet customers can help us get to the bottom of this now!

BTInfinity - 79999/19999kbps - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - BQM L1 - BQM L2
Standard User eckiedoo
(experienced) Tue 23-Feb-16 15:10:28
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
Paul

Agreed that is a noisy line.

Yet away back when we were eventually transferred from the Cross-Bar circuits in our local exchange to the System X circuits, involving also a number change, the noises were much, much louder than those, to the extent of being deafening - I kid you not!

A mix of engineering tones, screeches etc, at very high volume.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 23-Feb-16 15:14:08
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
What makes you think it will be a "B" model?
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Tue 23-Feb-16 15:17:32
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
What makes you think it will be a "B" model?


I remeber reading somewhere that BT was no longer handling Type A models and ever since I've only heard of Type B's being sent to new/existing customers... even those on ECI cabinets (which is odd)

and even if they do still handle Type A's, I would think they would make sure the DSLAM and CPE chipsets match... specially after last years G.INP balls up...

BTInfinity - 79999/19999kbps - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - BQM L1 - BQM L2
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 23-Feb-16 15:23:06
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
Well, we'll see. The order was stalled, so a new order has been made just now and the Homehub should arrive by Friday 26th.
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 23-Feb-16 17:01:12
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
Did you hear the HH4 syncing up at 1min into the audio clip LOL, it dropped the connection when doing the quiet line test, so something isn't right.

Another classic symptom.
Well when I phoned BT the start of December last year with this issue I told them everything that I replaced, i.e. I replaced the NTE5A xDSL MKIII Filter with a brand new one along with replacing all the phone extension cables that I was allowed to touch, leaving the cable going from the BT80B to the NTE5A Master Socket, they did some tests their end and did say the fault wasn't in our home but in the BT Network itself (was loosing the PPP connection while keeping sync), and where after the line was reset it was all fine for a month or two where it plays up again.
Now for the last month or two we are loosing sync as well so it must be a line issue due to we are still hearing the odd crackle, granted it hasn't been as bad as it was in that audio clip which was taken Dec 11th 2015.
TBH this line issue has been happening on and off since we joined BT, when we was with Zen our connection was stable around either side of the fence of 6 Mbps and no line noise what so ever, and of course our line card got released when we left Zen, got dumped on ADSL Max due to no ADSL2+ Line cards available, and while on that we had no line issues, only when we got put on the ADSL2+ Line card started having issues, it got to a point where I think the replaced the Line card at the exchange with another one, which was better but still had issues.

Basically this is how its all connected up...
  1. The line comes into our house into the first BT80B Junction Box half way up our wall (yes we have two of these, I will explain later why)
  2. That then goes into the second BT80B Junction Box on the skirting Board.
  3. It then uses 1 pair of twisted cables (I think CW 1308) down from the skirting board under the carpet along under the door to our hallway where the NTE5a Master Socket is located and is connected to it.
  4. Now on the Phone Face Plate we have two sets of wires coming from it.
    1. One goes back down that Cable linking the 2nd BT80B Junction Box and the NTE5a Master Box using the 2nd pairs, and at the 2nd BT80B box they have Gel Clamped it to a phone cable to out main Phone Base.
    2. That 2nd cable from the Phone Face Plate goes onto a splitter for the downstairs and upstairs phone lines (we have 4 Sky HD Boxes that needs to connected to the phone line.
  5. The xDSL MKIII Filter Plate has a CAT5e cable from its internal 2 Pin IDC connector going under the floor up to under our stairs where it goes upstairs to the middle of our house where its connected to the HH4A via a short home made cable (CAT5e) with a RJ11 one end and a RJ45 the other.

That's how its wired up, TBH if I was allowed to touch that cable between my cable (link between the 2nd BT80B and my NTE5a Master Socket) then it would of been done better and neater.

Oh BTW the NTE5a and the cable between the two are mine, NTE5a got burnt out during a thunder storm about several years back where the static discharge killed some thing tracks on the board, BT said we would be charged due to its an internal faults so I just brought one from amazon along with a reel of CW1308 from RS and just replaced the lot from the BT80B Box, and it was fine for many years while with Zen without any issues on the line, I think I had posted all this in another post on these forums.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
And yeah I know its a waste of time having the line reset every time it gets bad (i.e. every couple of months) but I would rather do that then have to pay the £130 callout charge when they find nothing at that time.

Maybe you should be seeing if BT retail will raise a Boost task, you shouldn't be paying for that, and hopefully you'll get an engineer who listens.
What's a Boost Task?

TBH we have had some nice engineers in the past, sadly some of those were contractors like Kelly's for example, one of those guys didn't want to either tack the cable round the door frame, neither did he want to pull up two floor boards to lay the cable beneath the floor, no he just placed the cable loose under the carpet, so after a year or two of people walking through the door of the room people sometimes steps on the cable splitting the sheath of the cable and it now untwisted there.

We will see what happens with the so called estimated date of End of Feb + 2 weeks updating the database and for to get activated before I progress this, because FVA doesn't use any of the copper line, so no point wasting money and time on something that doesn't get used and becomes redundant.

Paul
Standard User Deadbeat
(knowledge is power) Tue 23-Feb-16 17:31:13
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
I would keep quiet about replacing the NTE!

Got a function?
We've got it covered!
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 23-Feb-16 17:56:43
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Deadbeat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Deadbeat:
I would keep quiet about replacing the NTE!
Well BT already know and a couple of the engineers assumed I had replaced the whole box due to it being a newer version and was level LOL.

There exact words was "It ok, but did you change the Master Socket" where I replied why they was asking, and they then said "due to its all level and laughed" and then just checked the wiring and said that its very good wiring and that was it.

I still have the old burnt-out scorched one here some place just is case I have to put that back on, LOL

Back when the thunder storm took it out we never had anything connected to it apart from the Phone Base, and the Home Choice (TV Streaming Box) has been removed from that a few years before then, so the storm only took out the master socket and the phone base and I mean killed it dead LOL, I am glad nobody was using it at the time, but there was a big high pitch pop and loads of burning smell from the master socket and phone base, if I recall several other lines also was affected, I was also told something tripped at the exchange end as well due to we had to go to the phone box to report this, due to after I bridged the burnt out tracks in the broken NTE5a box it was still dead even in the test socket.

Paul
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 23-Feb-16 19:11:18
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
A point of information smile. The test socket and everything behind it is an NTE5. The NTE5A is purely the removable faceplate.

There is also an NTE5B which is a faceplate with no front socket but with the IDC connectors on the back. Suitable for fitting in lofts and such places where no phone siting is required.

The interstitial VDSL2 filter plate is just that. As far as I know it is not designated NTE5-anything.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59504/15641kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 23-Feb-16 19:49:31
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
A point of information smile. The test socket and everything behind it is an NTE5. The NTE5A is purely the removable faceplate.
Actually I think you might be wrong there, there has been changes to the NTE5 Master Socket over the years and the connection on the back inside had changed hence the "A"

At one point the internal connection terminals was screw terminals, then they was redesigned using the IDC Terminals and then was redesigned again and stuff got moved about to how they are now.

The only parts that have remained the same is the Test Socket for compatibility with current faceplates.

Also the Phone face plate is called "1036885 Faceplate" or something like that.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:
There is also an NTE5B which is a faceplate with no front socket but with the IDC connectors on the back. Suitable for fitting in lofts and such places where no phone siting is required.
Yeah, I think I saw the images for that, but due to there not being much information about that or where to actually buy them, I put that off as a myth tongue

In reply to a post by RobertoS:
The interstitial VDSL2 filter plate is just that. As far as I know it is not designated NTE5-anything.
That is correct as far as I know and is often listed as "Genuine BT vDSL Faceplate Filter".

Paul
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 23-Feb-16 20:05:27
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Here's something new, I have a text and an email confirming the order and delivery date. Looks like it's really happening.
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 23-Feb-16 21:09:15
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Here's something new, I have a text and an email confirming the order and delivery date. Looks like it's really happening.
Nice, well we should be receiving our new HH4 replacement over the next 3 to 5 days, so lets hope they both arrive and work fine smile

Paul
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 25-Feb-16 13:52:24
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
My new HH5A has just arrived and I've plugged it in

Initial results are Sync Speed 70755 IP Profile 68490 so using the RobertoS formula, I have IP Profile divided by Sync Speed giving 0.9679 (without).

This shows the Homehub5A does not currently support G.INP frown
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 25-Feb-16 13:58:37
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Oh frown

Well our HH4 hasn't come yet.

Paul
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 25-Feb-16 15:56:55
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
frown. Shame for you it being a 5A. Better brick it!

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59504/15641kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 25-Feb-16 15:59:13
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
You never know, there may be a firmware update in the future which enables G.INP...

Use the RobertoS Formula to determine if your line is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Thu 25-Feb-16 16:31:45
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
It took a few days for my HH5b to get latest firmware so maybe so...

BTInfinity - 79999/19999kbps - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - BQM L1 - BQM L2
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Thu 25-Feb-16 17:17:58
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
It still looks like your line needs a reset... line certainly looks Interleaved to me... BT should comply as your hub was obviously deemed faulty.

BTInfinity - 79999/19999kbps - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - BQM L1 - BQM L2
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 25-Feb-16 17:28:13
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
I'm sure DLM will sort itself out given time.

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your line is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 26-Feb-16 21:22:15
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Well well well, I got home tonight and what a surprise - another HH5 has arrived, this time a HH5B smile

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your line is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 26-Feb-16 21:38:49
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Heh!

So both orders went through.

Now you can find out which sync's higher tongue!

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59504/15641kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 26-Feb-16 22:09:31
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Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
Well well well, I got home tonight and what a surprise - another HH5 has arrived, this time a HH5B smile
Nice, let us all know how it goes.

I think BT India was talking out of his rear, due to our HH4 replacement hasn't arrived yet and I checked on my parents BT Account and its not showing up in orders etc.

So I assume I will have to phone them again and once again sit in a queue for another 30mins, this really sucks.

TBH, I don't even think its the HH4 at fault, but where they said it was, I just thought well I get another HH4 for free and its would just prove my case that its the line and not the HH4.

Paul
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 29-Feb-16 23:59:34
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
]In another 13 days, try a power down and wait a couple mins and power back up and see if that reboots the next day, I am guessing it does, I know it did 3 times in a row on our HH4 on our ADSL2+ connection.

I power cycled a couple of days ago, and the OpenRG reboot due this morning didn't happen, so it would appear the 14 days OpenRG reboot goes purely off router uptime.

Noticed another issue with the HH4, unit confusion.

In Helpdesk:
6. Bandwidth: 1167 / 14296

In Connection:
Downstream: 13.96 Mbps

Of course there are 1,000 Kilobits in a Megabit. For some reason it is quoting the bandwidth in Mebibits per second.

Oliver.
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 01-Mar-16 10:15:34
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Oliver341:
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
In another 13 days, try a power down and wait a couple mins and power back up and see if that reboots the next day, I am guessing it does, I know it did 3 times in a row on our HH4 on our ADSL2+ connection.

I power cycled a couple of days ago, and the OpenRG reboot due this morning didn't happen, so it would appear the 14 days OpenRG reboot goes purely off router uptime.

Noticed another issue with the HH4, unit confusion.

In Helpdesk:
6. Bandwidth: 1167 / 14296

In Connection:
Downstream: 13.96 Mbps

Of course there are 1,000 Kilobits in a Megabit. For some reason it is quoting the bandwidth in Mebibits per second.
I think its more on how stable the HomeHub or connection is at that time.
I have had it reboot itself every 14 to 16 days, and I have had the HH reboot ever few days, so it could be down how stable it all is.

I know it receives config settings every now and then and you get a couple of extra ones not long before it reboots itself.

Paul
Standard User Oliver341
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 01-Mar-16 12:54:25
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
I think its more on how stable the HomeHub or connection is at that time.
I have had it reboot itself every 14 to 16 days, and I have had the HH reboot ever few days, so it could be down how stable it all is.

Mine never reboots outside of the 14 day cycle so at least that's something.

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
I know it receives config settings every now and then and you get a couple of extra ones not long before it reboots itself.

I get two CWMP sessions triggered every day. Looking back at my last OpenRG reboot, the CWMP messages came in about 10 hours before the reboot:
01:09:02, 15 Feb. (1210955.290000) OpenRG will go down for reboot in 5 seconds
15:17:35, 14 Feb. (1175468.730000) CWMP: session completed successfully


CWMP triggers internally a few seconds after boot, regardless of whether it's connected to the internet. For me, everything points to the trigger happening internally on a 14 day uptime timer. As to why some HH4/5 owners don't get the reboots remains a mystery.

Oliver.
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 05-Mar-16 12:18:47
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Oliver341] [link to this post]
 
Well ours has a mind of its own, where as it will do a complete reboot 14 days give or take the odd few hours to a day.
But I have never see it last longer than the 16 or so days.

Not too sure if my HH4a is faulty, but BT keeps cancelling the replacement every time BT says that our current HH4a is reporting fault logs to their system.

But I guess that's BT for you.

Paul
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 09-Mar-16 08:28:41
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
Well I finally received our replacement HH4a in the post yesterday.
It arrived in a BT Hub Swap Box, so they want the old one back including the power adapter for recycling, so it will be refurbished and sent out to somebody else maybe.

Anyhow I wont be connecting it up until our connection does its auto reboot, but there is no harm in setting up everything on the new one while I wait.

As for sending the old one back BT can wait, they have had me wait for the replacement and other stuff, so now they can wait.

Plus I want to make sure everything is working fine first.

Paul
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Wed 09-Mar-16 09:38:20
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
I have a swap box for HH5 and Youview waiting to go back, I tried posting it but was told the barcodes where invalid... told BT via twitter but they wanted me to phone up to sort it out...

No thanks, not queing up wasting my time for there mistake... it sits under the bed until further notice.

BTInfinity - 79999/19999kbps - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - BQM L1 - BQM L2
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 09-Mar-16 10:22:00
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
I have a swap box for HH5 and Youview waiting to go back, I tried posting it but was told the barcodes where invalid... told BT via twitter but they wanted me to phone up to sort it out...

No thanks, not queing up wasting my time for there mistake... it sits under the bed until further notice.
Well I am only going to try and send it back the once and if it fails due to the same issue, then its their fault, and falls back to them to resolve the issues not the user.

I know for sure I am not sitting in a queue for +30 mins, no way.

Paul
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Wed 09-Mar-16 10:24:19
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
nice to know omeone else agree's with me on that!

BTInfinity - 79999/19999kbps - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - BQM L1 - BQM L2
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 09-Mar-16 10:28:09
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mlmclaren:
nice to know omeone else agree's with me on that!
Damn right, if they want me to contact them to resolve this blunder of theirs, they can phone me, or email me with the new label attached for me to print off.

Paul
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 13-Mar-16 12:12:30
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
There we go, both myths exploded.

The HH5A doesn't reset after 14 days.

The HH5A doesn't support G.INP.

4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime: 16 days, 22:37:04
6. Data rate: 19999 / 70755
7. Maximum data rate: 23838 / 73877
8. Noise margin: 15.2 / 5.6
9. Line attenuation: 11.4 / 11.3
10. Signal attenuation: 11.3 / 11.3

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User PaulKirby
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 13-Mar-16 18:16:09
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
There we go, both myths exploded.

The HH5A doesn't reset after 14 days.

The HH5A doesn't support G.INP.

4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime: 16 days, 22:37:04
6. Data rate: 19999 / 70755
7. Maximum data rate: 23838 / 73877
8. Noise margin: 15.2 / 5.6
9. Line attenuation: 11.4 / 11.3
10. Signal attenuation: 11.3 / 11.3
Well the HH4A must be different.
03:11:27, 13 Mar. (1222040.430000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]

14D 03H 27M 20S 430mS

Still not replaced my HH4A with its replacement yet, due to I have been busy and need to copy over its config to the new one.

But at least it hasn't increased my SNR when it did its reboot tongue

Also I have just noticed that it has kept the latency as Fast after it had been on Fast for 14 days.

1. Product name:                   BT Home Hub 
2. Serial number:                  +xxxxxx+NQxxxxxxx 
3. Firmware version:               Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.130.1.26.1.1 
                                   (Type A) Last updated 13/09/15 
4. Board version:                  BT Hub 4A 
5. ADSL uptime:                    0 days, 14:47:13 
6. Bandwidth:                      1063 / 5912 
7. Data sent/received:             181.8 MB / 4.1 GB 
8. Broadband username:             [email protected] 
9. BT Wi-fi:                       No 
10. 2.4 GHz Wireless network/SSID: Yazoo 
11. 2.4 GHz Wireless connections:  Enabled (802.11 b/g/n (up to 300 Mb/s)) 
12. 2.4 GHz Wireless security:     WPA2 
13. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel:      8 
14. 5 GHz Wireless network/SSID:   Yazoo 
15. 5 GHz Wireless connections:    Enabled (802.11 a/n (up to 300 Mb/s)) 
16. 5 GHz Wireless security:       WPA2 
17. 5 GHz Wireless channel:        60 
18. Firewall:                      Default 
19. MAC Address:                   xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx 
20. VPI/VCI:                       0 / 38 
21. Modulation:                    G.992.5 Annex A 
22. Latency type:                  Fast 
23. Software variant:              - 
24. Boot loader:                   -

So having the latency as Fast does it mean the line is ok now, or has been ok for the last 14 days and could go belly up later on?
I know we have lost a little bandwidth for the low latency (Fast) due to we normally sync at 6424Kbps (downstream of about 5.58Mbps) where as it is now giving us a downstream of about 5.14Mbps.

And getting 5.x Mbps is fine while we wait for BTOR to pull their fingers out and complete the FTTP install.

Paul
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Sun 13-Mar-16 21:46:34
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PaulKirby:
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
There we go, both myths exploded.

The HH5A doesn't reset after 14 days.

The HH5A doesn't support G.INP.

4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime: 16 days, 22:37:04
6. Data rate: 19999 / 70755
7. Maximum data rate: 23838 / 73877
8. Noise margin: 15.2 / 5.6
9. Line attenuation: 11.4 / 11.3
10. Signal attenuation: 11.3 / 11.3
Well the HH4A must be different.
Yeah, it's not a HH5A

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Wed 16-Mar-16 15:19:08
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
So I connected up my new HH5 type B
3. Firmware version: v0.07.05.0A13-BT (Type B) Last updated [Unknown]
4. Board version: 01
5. VDSL uptime: 0 days, 00:02:42
6. Data Rate: 19999 / 76144
7. Maximum Data Rate: 24660 / 76847
8. Noise Margin: 15.0 / 6.4
9. Line Attenuation: 11.8 / 11.7

That sync speed of 76144 gives me an IP Profile of 73620 and using the G.INP formula in my sig gives the answer of 0.96685 (with).

So I conclude that the HH5B supports G.INP smile

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Mar-16 17:31:10
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I didn't know you were also getting a 5B?

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59504/15641kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Wed 16-Mar-16 17:44:23
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Oh yes you did http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/bt/t/4467118-myths-...

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 16-Mar-16 17:57:31
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Ah!

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59504/15641kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User ggremlin
(experienced) Wed 16-Mar-16 19:23:33
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
my hh5b with that firmware v0.07.05.0A13-BT restarts every 14 days, but it didn't with older versions.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Wed 16-Mar-16 19:31:16
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: ggremlin] [link to this post]
 
Well, we'll see. As you may notice the uptime was a couple of minutes smile

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Wed 23-Mar-16 08:11:19
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Ok, I've had to abandon the HH5B experiment as it's just too unstable frown
04:38:52, 21 Mar. Booting firmware v0.07.05.0A13-BT (Thu Oct 15 14:28:46 2015)
20:09:37, 20 Mar. Booting firmware v0.07.05.0A13-BT (Thu Oct 15 14:28:46 2015)
15:04:28, 16 Mar. Booting firmware v0.07.05.0A13-BT (Thu Oct 15 14:28:46 2015)


Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User Alnath
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 31-Mar-16 15:46:42
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
My HH5 Type A no longer reboots every 14 days, it now seems to be every 5 days, it's a pain in the árse
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Thu 31-Mar-16 16:05:34
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Alnath] [link to this post]
 
Are you on an ECI cabinet?
Standard User Alnath
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 01-Apr-16 09:37:19
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
yeah unfortunately
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 01-Apr-16 09:49:36
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Alnath] [link to this post]
 
There seems to be a problem with how they implemented G.INP on ECI cabinets with vendor type IFTN 0xb204 which causes upstream instability. Could be that.
Standard User Alnath
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 01-Apr-16 10:35:37
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I cant even be sure if they have implemented G.INP on my cab cos i flogged my modem some years ago but this new shorter reboot cycle has been regular as clockwork since my max attainable upstream dropped and my max attainable downstream went up.

I think the best solution is to bin the HH5 off, a bit of a shame as i have always been a fan of it, its been really good on my line.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 11-Apr-16 17:43:25
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
VDSL / FTTC
Calculated as 96.79% of the sync speed or 96.69% for g.inp lines.
To get your sync speed from your IPprofile: Sync = IPprofile / .9679

The current Downstream BRAS rate is: 73.63 Mbps
The current Upstream BRAS rate is: 20 Mbps
3. Firmware version: v0.07.05.0A13-BT (Type B) Last updated [Unknown]
4. Board version: 01
5. VDSL uptime: 2 days, 11:24:06
6. Data Rate: 19999 / 76148
7. Maximum Data Rate: 24287 / 76746
8. Noise Margin: 14.6 / 6.3
9. Line Attenuation: 11.9 / 11.7
73630 / 76148 = 0.9669


1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
34.16 Mbps

0 Mbps 68.51 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 34.16 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 40 Mbps-68.51 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 68.51 Mbps

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
2.79 Mbps

0 Mbps 20 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 2.79Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 20 Mbps
3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.204.1.11 (Type A) Last updated 31/03/16
4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime: 0 days, 00:12:36
6. Data rate: 19999 / 70778
7. Maximum data rate: 23506 / 72032
8. Noise margin: 15.0 / 6.8
9. Line attenuation: 11.8 / 11.5
68510 / 70778 = 0.9679
Standard User Alnath
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 12-Apr-16 10:25:23
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I was given a HH5 Type B yesterday so that's me happy.

Oddly even though i am on an ECI cab the Type B has synced at the same speed as the Tybe A, my old HG612 always used to sync 4 or 5Mbit slower.

Fingers crossed for no more 14 days reboots and although this might be in my head the WiFi is better, not the range that's about the same but stuff is loading snappier

4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime: 0 days, 03:10:26
6. Data rate: 20000 / 78639
7. Maximum data rate: 28555 / 107784
8. Noise margin: 9.6 / 13.5

4. Board version: 01
5. VDSL uptime: 0 days, 13:50:16
6. Data Rate: 19000 / 79999
7. Maximum Data Rate: 28519 / 107735
8. Noise Margin: 9.8 / 13.4
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Fri 06-May-16 11:19:02
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: Alnath] [link to this post]
 
So I got a HH5a a couple of weeks back and today thought I would do a test as my upstream g.inp don't seem to be coming back anytime soon....

First, here's my stats from my HG612 this morning:
xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 20620 Kbps, Downstream rate = 68800 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 69384 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.3 6.5
Attn(dB): 16.7 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.3 7.1
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 243 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 45
R: 10 16
S: 0.1120 0.3782
L: 18146 5373
D: 8 1
I: 254 127
N: 254 254
Q: 8 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 54 0
TxQueue: 18 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 18 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 154 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 6.4000 0.0000
L: 40 0
D: 3 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 2679400
OHFErr: 0 14
RS: 1002508272 1627484
RSCorr: 224 73
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 1754147 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 17540856 0
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 1728408 0
rtx_c: 18 0
rtx_uc: 0 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 0 0
minEFTR: 69399 0
errFreeBits: 29814218 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 3759504387 0
Data Cells: 16338825 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 0 14
SES: 0 0
UAS: 28 28
AS: 28177

Bearer 0
INP: 47.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 4.27
OR: 0.01 59.93
AgR: 69455.05 20059.81

Bearer 1
INP: 4.50 0.00
INPRein: 4.50 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 79.68 0.01
AgR: 79.68 0.01

Bitswap: 8459/8460 4/4

Total time = 7 hours 50 min 5 sec
FEC: 224 73
CRC: 0 14
ES: 0 14
SES: 0 0
UAS: 28 28
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 5 min 5 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 34 5
CRC: 0 3
ES: 0 3
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 7 hours 50 min 5 sec
FEC: 224 73
CRC: 0 14
ES: 0 14
SES: 0 0
UAS: 28 28
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 7 hours 49 min 35 sec
FEC: 224 73
CRC: 0 14
ES: 0 14
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
#


My connection currently has G.INP enabled on the downstream only, my line is connected to a Huawei DSLAM, my connection is monitored constantly and sends the data to MDWS.

Here is what the HH5a reported when connected earlier today: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=sgu1ib&s=9#.VyxrM77nKHs

1. Product name:
BT Home Hub
2. Serial number: +068343+NQ41730307
3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.204.1.11 (Type A) Last updated 25/06/15
4. Board version: BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime: 0 days, 00:34:47
6. Data rate: 19033 / 69194
7. Maximum data rate: 19033 / 69176
8. Noise margin: 6.1 / 6.4
9. Line attenuation: 20.1 / 17.4
10. Signal attenuation: 20.0 / 17.4
11. Data sent/received: 0.6 MB / 1.8 MB
12. Broadband username: [email protected]

13. BT Wi-fi: Yes
14. 2.4 GHz Wireless network/SSID: BTHub5-M2ZG
15. 2.4 GHz Wireless connections: Enabled (802.11 b/g/n (up to 144 Mb/s))
16. 2.4 GHz Wireless security: WPA2
17. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel: Automatic (Smart Wireless)
18. 5 GHz Wireless network/SSID: BTHub5-M2ZG
19. 5 GHz Wireless connections: Enabled (802.11 a/n/ac (up to 1300 Mb/s))
20. 5 GHz Wireless security: WPA2
21. 5 GHz Wireless channel: Automatic (Smart Wireless)
22. Firewall: Default
23. MAC Address: 40:f2:01:21:f4:d8
24. Modulation: G.993.2 Annex B
25. Software variant: AA
26. Boot loader: 1.0.0


As you can see the syncs are the same.

Now history of my line,

Below you can see the stats my HG612 gave off just a few weeks ago when it was on an Interleaved profile:
xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 21342 Kbps, Downstream rate = 70180 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60882 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.3 7.1
Attn(dB): 16.7 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.3 7.1
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 26
B: 51 237
M: 1 1
T: 64 42
R: 12 16
S: 0.0272 0.3781
L: 18840 5374
D: 1191 1
I: 64 127
N: 64 254
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 21953268 1203593
OHFErr: 4 82
RS: 1324924045 1740454
RSCorr: 2987836 271
RSUnCorr: 13 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 192462183 0
Data Cells: 7274688 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 13 100
SES: 11 0
UAS: 140 129
AS: 38332

Bearer 0
INP: 3.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 8 0
PER: 1.74 3.98
OR: 109.96 64.22
AgR: 60991.75 20063.54

Bitswap: 9034/9034 57/57

Total time = 13 hours 57 min 38 sec
FEC: 4082386 328
CRC: 5445 107
ES: 13 100
SES: 11 0
UAS: 140 129
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 10 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 12 min 38 sec
FEC: 38067 3
CRC: 0 2
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 56349 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 13 hours 57 min 38 sec
FEC: 4082386 328
CRC: 5445 107
ES: 13 100
SES: 11 0
UAS: 140 129
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 10 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 10 hours 38 min 51 sec
FEC: 2987836 271
CRC: 4 82
ES: 2 76
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
#


Now the normal thing to see with tradional interleaving was the actual sync of the line dropping and the maximum attainable rising by 4-5mbps

Openreach Broadband Boost engineer's who tested my line recently told me that my lines speed of a Fastpath profile was high-end of 63000kbps, and then when G.INP was enabled on my line I gained an additional 6000kbps (which was pretty much identical to my increase at my last address)


So if the HH5a was not capable of G.INP I would expect to see either Increased pings and a gap between the 'data rate' and 'maximum data rate' figures or the loss of around 6000kbps to my downstream speed.

So I deem the Home Hub 5A G.INP capable as to the requirements of SIN498

BTInfinity - 68000/22000kbps Formerly 116000/31000 - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - BQM L1 - BQM L2
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 06-May-16 11:29:41
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
A better indicator is to compare the ratio of the sync speed and the IP Profile.
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Fri 06-May-16 11:31:31
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
We've already been told that the ratio is different on different chipsets

BTInfinity - 69000/20000kbps Formerly 116000/31000 - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - BQM L1 - BQM L2
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 06-May-16 11:34:44
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
This is what you should do as I demonstrated here http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/bt/t/4476138-myths-...
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Fri 06-May-16 11:36:35
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
As I said, those won't match up due to it being a Lantiq chipset, just like G.INP on ECI DSLAM's doesn't have the same ration.... even on HG612's

BTInfinity - 69000/20000kbps Formerly 116000/31000 - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - BQM L1 - BQM L2
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 06-May-16 11:38:24
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
That's one of the many problems on an ECI cabinet, however you're on a Huawei cabinet like me.
Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Fri 06-May-16 11:41:21
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Yes but the chipset in the modem is different which throws the ratio off.

BTInfinity - 69000/20000kbps Formerly 116000/31000 - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - BQM L1 - BQM L2
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 06-May-16 11:49:48
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: mlmclaren] [link to this post]
 
It's ok, I understand your reluctance to post the results of this simple test wink

Edited by BatBoy (Fri 06-May-16 12:42:51)

Standard User mlmclaren
(knowledge is power) Fri 06-May-16 12:10:09
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Didn't say I hadn't done it... just not relevent.

BTInfinity - 69000/20000kbps Formerly 116000/31000 - Quality Monitor - Quality Monitor 2
VirginMedia - 77000/5250kbps - BQM L1 - BQM L2
Standard User epyon
(experienced) Fri 06-May-16 13:22:54
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Every post I've seen if someone disagrees with you

you just ignore it

and links with proof = ignore

why are people taking you serious?

Batboy = village idiot?

BT Infinity 2 - 80/20
BT Infinity 2 Speedtest
BT Mobile - 4G
BT Mobile 4G Speedtest
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 06-May-16 13:28:44
Print Post

Re: Myths exploded


[re: epyon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by epyon:
Every post I've seen if someone disagrees with you
you just ignore it
and links with proof = ignore
That's because I'm the only one who has provided proof. Here.
why are people taking you serious?
Perhaps I have struck a chord?

Edited by BatBoy (Fri 06-May-16 18:36:23)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sat 07-May-16 12:54:41
Print Post

Closed


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Back to name calling so closed.

If others are able to show the same proof it would be interesting, but when just one person seems to keep repeating themselves and others question it, it becomes harder to carry forward any belief that they may have a point.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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