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Standard User partial
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 01-Nov-20 22:27:40
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Re: Another engineer visit


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Grease filled, unshielded cables from B3 Cables before they went bust and subsequently BT Cables were very badly made. Pair 3 usually and sometimes Pair 9 within each lay have pretty much no pitch.

Me and my business partner always test these cables for splits ( and LSA Tooless modules for disconnects) before we load them.

Split pairs are not an insulation fault and as such are not 'rectified'.

802

Edited by partial (Sun 01-Nov-20 22:42:58)

Standard User candlerb
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 02-Nov-20 08:13:57
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Re: Another engineer visit


[re: woppy1010] [link to this post]
 
Here's a nice article from 2014 showing how attaintable broadband speeds drop due to crosstalk, as more and more users join a cabinet:

https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/2014/vector...

In short, if your acceptable range is "78-55M" you can interpret it as "78M when there's nobody else on the cabinet, and 55M when you're affected by a ton of crosstalk from other users". So it's not surprising you started at the high end of this range, and ended up at the low end. You're still within the range, so there's no fault; this is just how VDSL works.

There's a follow-up article showing the improvements which vectoring can give:

https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/vdsl-vector...

However, it's rare that Openreach enables vectoring on a cabinet. From what I hear, they only do it when necessary to get a few users over the 24M or 30M threshold needed to meet contractual requirements for the numbers of "superfast" users on a cabinet.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 02-Nov-20 08:33:16
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Re: Another engineer visit


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
By rectified, I meant split by ‘poor installation’ and then just left as is, so the A leg of one pair is, for the cable length, wrapped around the B leg of the other pair, and vice versa.


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Standard User woppy1010
(regular) Tue 03-Nov-20 06:13:30
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Re: Another engineer visit


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Here's a nice article from 2014 showing how attaintable broadband speeds drop due to crosstalk, as more and more users join a cabinet:

https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/2014/vector...

In short, if your acceptable range is "78-55M" you can interpret it as "78M when there's nobody else on the cabinet, and 55M when you're affected by a ton of crosstalk from other users". So it's not surprising you started at the high end of this range, and ended up at the low end. You're still within the range, so there's no fault; this is just how VDSL works.

There's a follow-up article showing the improvements which vectoring can give:

https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/vdsl-vector...

However, it's rare that Openreach enables vectoring on a cabinet. From what I hear, they only do it when necessary to get a few users over the 24M or 30M threshold needed to meet contractual requirements for the numbers of "superfast" users on a cabinet.


That’s fair enough if the acceptable range stays at 78-55mb and I get something in between that, but my acceptable range has now dropped to 65-45
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 03-Nov-20 12:46:25
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Re: Another engineer visit


[re: woppy1010] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by woppy1010:
That’s fair enough if the acceptable range stays at 78-55mb and I get something in between that, but my acceptable range has now dropped to 65-45


Your acceptable range doesn't change mid contract.

The Broadband Availability Checker might change estimates ranges during your contract but that means diddly squat.

When your sign up or renew your contract you are quoted an estimated range and a minimum guarantee.

This should be updated when you sign a new contract. If you aren't happy with the adjusted estimates then don't sign.

It's a technology that degrades as take up increases. It's expected. It's part of the reason there is a range in the 1st place as crosstalk can vary considerably between different lines.
Standard User woppy1010
(regular) Tue 03-Nov-20 14:19:12
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Re: Another engineer visit


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
In reply to a post by woppy1010:
That’s fair enough if the acceptable range stays at 78-55mb and I get something in between that, but my acceptable range has now dropped to 65-45


Your acceptable range doesn't change mid contract.

The Broadband Availability Checker might change estimates ranges during your contract but that means diddly squat.

When your sign up or renew your contract you are quoted an estimated range and a minimum guarantee.

This should be updated when you sign a new contract. If you aren't happy with the adjusted estimates then don't sign.

It's a technology that degrades as take up increases. It's expected. It's part of the reason there is a range in the 1st place as crosstalk can vary considerably between different lines.


The woman on the other side of the phone said it had since my contact started, when my contact started in feb it was 72-47mbps, in 2019 it was 77-57 and when I came to bt it was 80-65.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 04-Nov-20 09:24:42
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Re: Another engineer visit


[re: woppy1010] [link to this post]
 
Someone representing a consumer would make the case that that a change in the acceptable range that was originally part of the contract would be a material change to the contract and solution would be remedy of that or making the contract null and void i.e. walk for free

Material changes to the contract are not released via the BT Wholesale checker but should be communicated by BT via the preferred contact method you have agreed to.

In short figures you agreed to when taking out the contract will stand as part of your contract, unless notified otherwise.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 04-Nov-20 18:27:08
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Re: Another engineer visit


[re: woppy1010] [link to this post]
 
When you signed up you were given estimates and a minimum guarantee.
These are emailed to you at the time.

When you recontract you get new estimates and a new minimum guarantee.
These are emailed to you at the time.

They are your contracted figures.
It matters not what some random BT rep quotes you on the phone.

Search your emails for your most recently contracted estimates.

BT cannot change your contract halfway through. They have a copy of your contracted figures.

It's possible the rep was quoting your lines current estimates, which would be the figures you would be quoted if you recontracted.

BT customer service can often fall short of expectations in many areas.
If they advised your contracted estimates have changed then they advised incorrectly.

It's the same process with all ISP's who use the OpenReach network.
If your line drops below the minimum guarantee and the ISP can't get your line back up to speed you can leave without penalty.
It cannot be changed mid contract.
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Wed 04-Nov-20 19:16:11
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Re: Another engineer visit


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
From the OP's original post it appears his speeds are around 60 mbps and that his contract range might have been 78-55 mbps. I am uncertain though as BT might have decreased the contract range in subsequent contracts as the initial contract was over three years ago.
Standard User woppy1010
(regular) Mon 09-Nov-20 11:53:57
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Re: Another engineer visit


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
Well engineer came out and it was the wrong engineer, so now have had it confirmed I can leave penalty free
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