User comments on ISPs
  >> BT Broadband


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User woppy1010
(learned) Sat 31-Oct-20 12:16:41
Print Post

Another engineer visit


[link to this post]
 
Got another OR engineer coming out in a week(6th in 3 years) as I lost another 5mb off my speed mid week, started at 80mb 3 years ago now down to 60, got my first helpful CS agent though, she has put it into the notes that I can leave penalty free if they can’t get my speed back, cheeky gits even have even knocked off 10mb of my acceptable range was 78-55mb in feb now down to 65-50mb
Standard User flilot
(member) Sat 31-Oct-20 16:05:14
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: woppy1010] [link to this post]
 
May just be that three years ago there were less people in the area with FTTC using your cabinet, and in recent years more and more people have signed up causing a cabinet full of crosstalk which may degrade your (and likely everyone else's) speed. The revised acceptable range may also point to this. Not much can be done about crosstalk. But do report back what the engineer says/does.

Carl
____________________________
vodafone Gigafast 100/100 | Calix 801Gv2 GigaPoint ONT | FRITZ!Box 7530 Router
Standard User woppy1010
(regular) Sat 31-Oct-20 16:33:10
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: flilot] [link to this post]
 
If like every other time he will do a check see there is no fault on the line and say “your over your max guaranteed speed so there is nothing I can do”


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Sat 31-Oct-20 16:50:55
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: woppy1010] [link to this post]
 
If enough people complain and its down to cross talk in the tie cables,then they can be changed to cat 5 cables, but that is not going to be done overnight so to speak
Standard User Realalemadrid
(committed) Sat 31-Oct-20 21:20:12
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
Is this a joke reply? Do you really think that the crosstalk is caused by a few meters ( well maybe fifty metres or so of tie cables) I don't think so. What about the hundreds of meters of telephone cable going from the cabinet to the premises which is where crosstalk happens and Openreach will not seriously consider activating vectoring because it will cost them and they will get no financial return from users.frown
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Sat 31-Oct-20 22:19:23
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
May I politely suggest you check out witchunt's many other most informative posts in these forums. I suspect, no I know, that they have far more knowledge of Openreach's network than either of us.
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Sat 31-Oct-20 23:13:08
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
Well I'm no expert but vectoring is used to reduce the effects of Far End Crosstalk, which why its typically been used to raise speeds in areas with longer lines. Near End Crosstalk is likely to eminate at the cabinet where the XDSL signals are 1) most powerful and 2) mostly concentrated, but there is always the possibility OR just like to replace the cables just for the hell of it.
No, it's not a joke reply.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sat 31-Oct-20 23:36:11
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: woppy1010] [link to this post]
 
I hope you are ready for the £100+ bill when no fault is found.

You are seeing what hundreds of other users also see. As more properties move to VDSL crosstalk and conducted noise increases resulting in speed drops. Mine has dropped from well over 90Mbps when I was the only user, to mid/high 60s as more moved across. And one particular neighbour casues a 10Mbps drop. Can I do antything? Notreally.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User adslmax
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 31-Oct-20 23:51:26
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: woppy1010] [link to this post]
 
You will get £100+ charged by Openreach if no fault are found! Good luck with your bill

PN FTTC 80/20 since 2014
Standard User woppy1010
(regular) Sun 01-Nov-20 08:19:59
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
I said that to the tech support guy about the charge and that OR would come out and say “ I can’t find a fault and your above you minimum anyway” and he has put in the notes that I won’t be charged, and the retention girl I spoke to first also put it in the notes that if I don’t get my speed back I can leave penalty free
Standard User partial
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 01-Nov-20 10:11:24
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
I have had the task of changing tie cables to cat5. I presume it was not for comedic purposes.

802
Standard User Realalemadrid
(committed) Sun 01-Nov-20 10:37:56
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
My apologies to Witchunt, I had not heard of such activity, however I don't quite understand how a different twisted pair cable can reduce crosstalk unless there is individual grounded screening of every users' tie pairs which would presumably significantly increase the size of the cable bundle.

I would also say that I have read many of Witchunt's posts and have always found them to be useful and informative.
Standard User witchunt
(experienced) Sun 01-Nov-20 11:24:49
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
It's all in the twists.
Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Sun 01-Nov-20 17:15:15
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
I hope you are ready for the £100+ bill when no fault is found.

The trick is to get your ISP to flag / report it as an intermittent fault, that is what I used to do back when we were on ADSL2+.

I used to do that due to our line had got to a point where it would get worse and worse to a point it was dead when it rained or become very windy and when it stopped raining or wasn't windy outside it started to work again.

I know BT was fine flagging it as an intermittent fault and the several times an engineer was sent out (including a boost engineer) we were not charged when they couldn't find an issue.

I know one of the first engineer visits they found a fault in our pair, sadly there was no available working pairs left, so maybe that's why we have never been charged for an engineer callout.

Paul

BTBroadband - Full Fibre 900 Halo 1 + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
TBB Speedtest IPv4 | TBB Speedtest IPv6 | Ookla Speedtest (CLI) | MikroTik Tik RB4011iGS+RM (BQM)
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Sun 01-Nov-20 17:29:45
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: PaulKirby] [link to this post]
 
I don't have an issue with a case like yours however getting OR out when there is no fault just greater take-up is a waste of resources that ultimately every user pays for.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 01-Nov-20 19:15:37
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit *DELETED*


[re: witchunt] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by Zarjaz
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 01-Nov-20 19:17:37
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
They offer similar to CP's for their LLU tie cables.

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/llu/e...
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 01-Nov-20 19:25:17
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
Well there you go ..... always read the WHOLE thread before posting.

Out of interest, did you find any rectified splits on the old PET ties ?

Standard User PaulKirby
(knowledge is power) Sun 01-Nov-20 19:38:54
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Oh I totally agree.

The final year before we got FTTP we just had to put up with our very bad copper line dropping out on us all the time, there was no point reporting the issue due to there would be nothing that they could do.

Paul

BTBroadband - Full Fibre 900 Halo 1 + FVA
Exchange Name: Ilford Central (LNILC) Cabinet: 24
TBB Speedtest IPv4 | TBB Speedtest IPv6 | Ookla Speedtest (CLI) | MikroTik Tik RB4011iGS+RM (BQM)
Standard User Realalemadrid
(committed) Sun 01-Nov-20 20:07:51
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
These are internal cables in the exchange, not quite the same scenario as the ones between PCPs and FTTC cabinets. I am not impressed by OR's sales pitch, for an additional cost you can have something that may not be better ....We give no additional services or guarantees of improved performance with this product. I bet they haven't sold many.smile
Standard User partial
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 01-Nov-20 22:27:40
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Grease filled, unshielded cables from B3 Cables before they went bust and subsequently BT Cables were very badly made. Pair 3 usually and sometimes Pair 9 within each lay have pretty much no pitch.

Me and my business partner always test these cables for splits ( and LSA Tooless modules for disconnects) before we load them.

Split pairs are not an insulation fault and as such are not 'rectified'.

802

Edited by partial (Sun 01-Nov-20 22:42:58)

Standard User candlerb
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 02-Nov-20 08:13:57
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: woppy1010] [link to this post]
 
Here's a nice article from 2014 showing how attaintable broadband speeds drop due to crosstalk, as more and more users join a cabinet:

https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/2014/vector...

In short, if your acceptable range is "78-55M" you can interpret it as "78M when there's nobody else on the cabinet, and 55M when you're affected by a ton of crosstalk from other users". So it's not surprising you started at the high end of this range, and ended up at the low end. You're still within the range, so there's no fault; this is just how VDSL works.

There's a follow-up article showing the improvements which vectoring can give:

https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/vdsl-vector...

However, it's rare that Openreach enables vectoring on a cabinet. From what I hear, they only do it when necessary to get a few users over the 24M or 30M threshold needed to meet contractual requirements for the numbers of "superfast" users on a cabinet.
Standard User Zarjaz
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 02-Nov-20 08:33:16
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: partial] [link to this post]
 
By rectified, I meant split by ‘poor installation’ and then just left as is, so the A leg of one pair is, for the cable length, wrapped around the B leg of the other pair, and vice versa.

Standard User woppy1010
(regular) Tue 03-Nov-20 06:13:30
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: candlerb] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by candlerb:
Here's a nice article from 2014 showing how attaintable broadband speeds drop due to crosstalk, as more and more users join a cabinet:

https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/2014/vector...

In short, if your acceptable range is "78-55M" you can interpret it as "78M when there's nobody else on the cabinet, and 55M when you're affected by a ton of crosstalk from other users". So it's not surprising you started at the high end of this range, and ended up at the low end. You're still within the range, so there's no fault; this is just how VDSL works.

There's a follow-up article showing the improvements which vectoring can give:

https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/vdsl-vector...

However, it's rare that Openreach enables vectoring on a cabinet. From what I hear, they only do it when necessary to get a few users over the 24M or 30M threshold needed to meet contractual requirements for the numbers of "superfast" users on a cabinet.


That’s fair enough if the acceptable range stays at 78-55mb and I get something in between that, but my acceptable range has now dropped to 65-45
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 03-Nov-20 12:46:25
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: woppy1010] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by woppy1010:
That’s fair enough if the acceptable range stays at 78-55mb and I get something in between that, but my acceptable range has now dropped to 65-45


Your acceptable range doesn't change mid contract.

The Broadband Availability Checker might change estimates ranges during your contract but that means diddly squat.

When your sign up or renew your contract you are quoted an estimated range and a minimum guarantee.

This should be updated when you sign a new contract. If you aren't happy with the adjusted estimates then don't sign.

It's a technology that degrades as take up increases. It's expected. It's part of the reason there is a range in the 1st place as crosstalk can vary considerably between different lines.
Standard User woppy1010
(regular) Tue 03-Nov-20 14:19:12
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
In reply to a post by woppy1010:
That’s fair enough if the acceptable range stays at 78-55mb and I get something in between that, but my acceptable range has now dropped to 65-45


Your acceptable range doesn't change mid contract.

The Broadband Availability Checker might change estimates ranges during your contract but that means diddly squat.

When your sign up or renew your contract you are quoted an estimated range and a minimum guarantee.

This should be updated when you sign a new contract. If you aren't happy with the adjusted estimates then don't sign.

It's a technology that degrades as take up increases. It's expected. It's part of the reason there is a range in the 1st place as crosstalk can vary considerably between different lines.


The woman on the other side of the phone said it had since my contact started, when my contact started in feb it was 72-47mbps, in 2019 it was 77-57 and when I came to bt it was 80-65.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 04-Nov-20 09:24:42
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: woppy1010] [link to this post]
 
Someone representing a consumer would make the case that that a change in the acceptable range that was originally part of the contract would be a material change to the contract and solution would be remedy of that or making the contract null and void i.e. walk for free

Material changes to the contract are not released via the BT Wholesale checker but should be communicated by BT via the preferred contact method you have agreed to.

In short figures you agreed to when taking out the contract will stand as part of your contract, unless notified otherwise.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 04-Nov-20 18:27:08
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: woppy1010] [link to this post]
 
When you signed up you were given estimates and a minimum guarantee.
These are emailed to you at the time.

When you recontract you get new estimates and a new minimum guarantee.
These are emailed to you at the time.

They are your contracted figures.
It matters not what some random BT rep quotes you on the phone.

Search your emails for your most recently contracted estimates.

BT cannot change your contract halfway through. They have a copy of your contracted figures.

It's possible the rep was quoting your lines current estimates, which would be the figures you would be quoted if you recontracted.

BT customer service can often fall short of expectations in many areas.
If they advised your contracted estimates have changed then they advised incorrectly.

It's the same process with all ISP's who use the OpenReach network.
If your line drops below the minimum guarantee and the ISP can't get your line back up to speed you can leave without penalty.
It cannot be changed mid contract.
Standard User MCM
(knowledge is power) Wed 04-Nov-20 19:16:11
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
From the OP's original post it appears his speeds are around 60 mbps and that his contract range might have been 78-55 mbps. I am uncertain though as BT might have decreased the contract range in subsequent contracts as the initial contract was over three years ago.
Standard User woppy1010
(regular) Mon 09-Nov-20 11:53:57
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: MCM] [link to this post]
 
Well engineer came out and it was the wrong engineer, so now have had it confirmed I can leave penalty free
Standard User GonePostal
(committed) Mon 09-Nov-20 12:43:53
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: woppy1010] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by woppy1010:
Well engineer came out and it was the wrong engineer, so now have had it confirmed I can leave penalty free


Looking on the gloomy side, any new supplier you choose will only offer a deal based on the capabilities of your line so you will quite likely only be offered a guarantee based on the speeds you are now recording and not the 80Mbps you are hoping for.
Standard User woppy1010
(regular) Mon 09-Nov-20 12:51:10
Print Post

Re: Another engineer visit


[re: GonePostal] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GonePostal:
In reply to a post by woppy1010:
Well engineer came out and it was the wrong engineer, so now have had it confirmed I can leave penalty free


Looking on the gloomy side, any new supplier you choose will only offer a deal based on the capabilities of your line so you will quite likely only be offered a guarantee based on the speeds you are now recording and not the 80Mbps you are hoping for.


I’m going to virgin once their Black Friday deals come on line
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to