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Standard User Zebsy
(member) Mon 23-Nov-20 11:57:57
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New router from BT?


[link to this post]
 
Hi,
We have FTTC with BT Broadband
The router we have is fine, but has recently been refusing Wifi connections until we reboot it.
Existing connected devices work fine, but someone returns to the house with their phone and it inexplicably refuses to connect to the Wifi. Also happens when my daughter switches on her laptop sometimes.
We power cycle the router and all is fine.

Any ideas?
Can I get a new router from BT?

Cheers,

Zebs
Standard User Michael_Chare
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 25-Nov-20 16:37:06
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: Zebsy] [link to this post]
 
Ask BT.

Michael Chare
Standard User Zebsy
(member) Wed 25-Nov-20 17:06:36
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: Michael_Chare] [link to this post]
 
Good plan there
I was kind of asking - is the BT Broadband equipment my own, and do they warranty it?


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Standard User jpm
(member) Wed 25-Nov-20 17:35:54
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: Zebsy] [link to this post]
 
How old is it? They should swap faulty hardware, I think lately they have been asking for things to be returned end of contract so I think it's only yours if you've either had the service for a while, or if you bought the router outright.
Standard User Malwaremike
(experienced) Wed 25-Nov-20 18:03:49
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: Zebsy] [link to this post]
 
@zebsy
Yes they'll charge you. Since Dec last year BT imposed a £43 charge for HH5 HH6 and £50 for new smarthub unless you return it to them. I would expect them to exchange a faulty router without charge because they say it's theirs so why should you pay to fix their faulty gear?
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 27-Nov-20 02:51:37
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: Zebsy] [link to this post]
 
Which BT router do you have?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC => 2020: EE 40 Meg FTTC (no landline no.)
Standard User Zebsy
(member) Fri 27-Nov-20 09:29:58
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
It's a BT Smart Hub - it's 4 years old
Standard User sparky_paul
(experienced) Fri 27-Nov-20 12:12:31
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: Zebsy] [link to this post]
 
They should replace that for free if you report the fault, probably with a Smart Hub 2. It's just a plug in and go swap, just connect your devices to the new router.

BT now retain ownership of the equipment. If you ever leave BT in the future, you will have to return the new router, or they will charge you a fee - but they do supply you with a prepaid bag, so it's relatively painless.

>>> BTFibre 2 FTTC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 28-Nov-20 00:11:00
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: Zebsy] [link to this post]
 
For a BT Smart Hub, but not a BT Smart Hub 2, try separating the wireless channels. On the Advanced / Wireless Settings page of the SH there is a button near the top to Separate the Bands. Turn it ON. Then the 5GHz SSID will appear starting with "5GHz-" & the 2.4 GHz SSID not starting with "5GHz-".

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sat 28-Nov-20 09:50:41)

Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 28-Nov-20 12:22:53
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: Zebsy] [link to this post]
 
It could be the DHCP implementation on the Smart Hub being badly broken. There are numerous reports of this. The Smart Hub seems to remember all devices that have ever connected to it - you can see them listed in the admin interface. Old devices never get cleared out and after a while the system gets clogged up and has problems issuing IP addresses to devices wanting to connect - both via ethernet and Wi-Fi.

The only way to resolve the issue, at least until the list fills up again, is to do a factory reset. I've had this problem at a client site with a BT Smart Hub 2 which was recently installed hoping to solve the same problem on their previous Smart Hub. It didn't fix it.

I noticed the issue when I was testing wired connections around the house. I could plug in a network tester and it would get an IP address and connect to the internet. I could unplug it, plug it back into the same socket again and it wouldn't get an address even though there was a good physical link. I poked around on the BT support forums and found lots of posts about similar issues.

In the end I installed a firewall which acts as a DHCP server and all the connection problems have vanished completely. The client now has reliable internet for the first time since buying the house five years ago. Everything just works.

So, my suggestion would be to try doing a factory reset and seeing if this solves problems to start with. Just unplugging the router and rebooting it doesn't clear the device list. Of course, the list will fill up again but this may give you longer periods of stable connectivity.

A longer term fix would require BT to fix the firmware or you could buy your own non-BT router.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Sat 28-Nov-20 21:59:39
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: Zebsy] [link to this post]
 
Apples new IOS has caused an increase in these reported issues of the device “filling up.”

If you go to settings - WiFi - press the little i next to the WiFi and untick private address it seems to help some users. The box seems to be seeing the address change in some cases as an extra / new device joining every single day. So after a few weeks it’s overwhelmed.

You need to factory reset also.

If that doesn’t help - a new hub might.

This issue doesn’t seem to be impacting all, just noticed a few posts where they have the same devices listing a bunch since ios14.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Sat 28-Nov-20 22:00:19)

Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 28-Nov-20 23:26:35
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for posting that. It's pretty much exactly what I had written in the first draft of my previous post but because I wasn't 100% sure I removed it. I hadn't had enough time to research it and find supporting information but I had my suspicions. All I came across last night was Apple's post on the matter which really doesn't say very much about how it works. It implies that the private MAC address stays the same for a particular wi-fi network but this isn't actually the case at all.

What Apple means is that it stays the same when associated with a particular BSSID - until it doesn't stay the same. If you have one router with dual band, it has two BSSIDs; one for 2.4GHz and 5GHz. If you add just one dual-band extender to the setup, that's another two BSSIDs so you already have four separate device identities which the iPhone/iPad creates to cope with these four BSSIDs.

Even with four separate identities created, the Apple device may drop these and generate new ones at an unspecified time in the future. That may be as often as several times a day according to Fing which posts an interesting table comparing Apple's MAC anonymizing to that in Android 10 and beyond.

Once the BT router's device list gets beyond a certain size, it starts behaving unpredictably. It doesn't fail to give an IP address every time, only some of the time. This happens with wired devices that have a fixed MAC address as well as wi-fi clients, Apple or not. Disabling private wi-fi addresses within iOS/iPadOS settings will help to slow the rate at which the router's device list gets too large.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User Zebsy
(member) Sat 28-Nov-20 23:57:32
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for all the info, really useful.

We have no iOS devices so it can't be that, but the DHCP issue sounds like a definite possibility.
I do have another switch (router with the bb disabled) hard wired to the BT box, and it's DHCP is currently switched off.
Maybe I could try using the DHCP on that box instead.
Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 29-Nov-20 01:05:33
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: Zebsy] [link to this post]
 
It's definitely worth trying the old router as a DHCP server. Putting a new DHCP server in certainly fixed all the connection problems for my client. Don't forget to disable DHCP on the BT Smart hub and let us know how you get on. Good luck!

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User PS123
(regular) Tue 01-Dec-20 07:16:26
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
Thank you Sarah!

Now it is all beginning to make sense. I had this issue with previous Home Hubs and also with the Smart hub 2 until the latest firmware update, which seems to be stable (40+ days running!). I have quite a few Apple devices and I was always getting connection problems with Apple devices.

But you are absolutely right, the Smart Hub 2 device connection list still shows devices that are no longer connected taking up an IP address space with no way to clear this list unless I carry out a factory reset. Would have thought a company as large as BT would have noticed and resolve this issue.

On a side note, does anyone know what the maximum device connection limit on the Smart Hub 2 is? I think it may be around 30 but I could be wrong.
Standard User Speckled500
(newbie) Mon 07-Dec-20 22:02:24
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: PS123] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PS123:
the Smart Hub 2 device connection list still shows devices that are no longer connected taking up an IP address space with no way to clear this list unless I carry out a factory reset.

Have you tried this?
In the Smart Hub 2 Manager:
1. Click on Advance settings.
2. Click on My network (and enter admin password)
3. In the list of devices, you should see clickable blue "Remove" buttons against each non-connected device.
Standard User busterboy
(experienced) Tue 08-Dec-20 10:00:05
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Re: New router from BT?


[re: Zebsy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zebsy:
It's a BT Smart Hub - it's 4 years old


Before I had FTTP enabled two weeks ago my 6 year old router Home Hub 4 went on the blink and they sent me a new router out without charge no problem at all.

I have since sent it back as it is the property of BT.

They do send you a return pre postage bag for it to go in.

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