Possible to request switch to BT Digital Voice early?

My understanding is that BT are now migrating their customers over to Digital Voice on a region-by-region basis - however is it possible for a BT Broadband (FTTC) customer to request to switch from PSTN to Digital Voice early, i.e. before the migration reaches their region?

The scenario is a slightly noisy copper line - despite this the FTTC broadband service seems to work OK, except it can lose sync when the PSTN phone is used for calls. Just to be clear, the Openreach NTE5 master socket does have a DSL filter faceplate and there are no extentions. The broadband router is the BT Smart Hub 2.

The alternative would be to get Openreach to attend to the copper wiring, but the route the cable takes from the pole in the street to the property is not straightforward - potentially having the line partially or wholly replaced only to go through a similar process in a few years when FTTP is installed seems like a possibly avoidable hassle.

I would suggest raising a broadband fault, what is minor now won’t heal itself. Moving to DV will only mask the issue, and eventually as the copper fault worsens, you’ll lose the digital voice service when then sync drops.

There are plenty of other places the fault might be rather than the bit you are guessing at.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I would suggest raising a broadband fault, what is minor now won’t heal itself. Moving to DV will only mask the issue, and eventually as the copper fault worsens, you’ll lose the digital voice service when then sync drops.

There are plenty of other places the fault might be rather than the bit you are guessing at.

Definitely

In reply to a post by OpticalWeetabix:

My understanding is that BT are now migrating their customers over to Digital Voice on a region-by-region basis - however is it possible for a BT Broadband (FTTC) customer to request to switch from PSTN to Digital Voice early, i.e. before the migration reaches their region?

Not a BT customer, but I believe they will process your request if you volunteer to migrate to DV outside of the regional migrations where folks are invited/told to do so.

However the advice above is sound; don’t try this as a means to wallpaper over the cracks of an underlying connection which has other persistent faults/issues. Like building a house on rickety foundations, it eventually doesn’t end well.

My parents line was like this, every call the vdsl service would drop. It has taken BT months to fix it (numerous faults fixed - wires replaced, junctions re-made, etc), definitely raise a fault and keep pushing until its solved - these things don't magically fix themselves.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I would suggest raising a broadband fault, what is minor now won’t heal itself. Moving to DV will only mask the issue, and eventually as the copper fault worsens, you’ll lose the digital voice service when then sync drops.

Thanks all. I think this is sensible advice... my original post was writtem in a slight state of annoyance when the broadband had dropped just after receiving a call on the landline.Somewhat against the grain, I think landline usage may increase a little so such annoyances could occur a bit more often.

However as you've all pointed out the 'quick fix' of migrating to Digital Voice is just a way of hiding the problem rather than solving it - and solving it is probably a good idea, especially as FTTP might be some way off. This is particicularly so given the awkward positioning of the property... I can imagine FTTP arriving in the area but there being difficulties in getting it all the way to the house and neighbouring properties (wayleaves and so on).

Edited by OpticalWeetabix (Sun 13-Aug-23 16:08:31)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I would suggest raising a broadband fault, what is minor now won’t heal itself. Moving to DV will only mask the issue, and eventually as the copper fault worsens, you’ll lose the digital voice service when then sync drops.

There are plenty of other places the fault might be rather than the bit you are guessing at.

Actually, I can confirm that ever since I moved to BT FTTC last year this same problem that the OP is describing that I had was resolved!

See my post from BT forum last year Message 27. https://community.bt.com/t5/Home-phone-including-Dig...
As I have mentioned in my post over there "I can confirm it hasn't been triggering internet disconnections!! This is great news! Since analogue line is turned off and there's no dial tone through master socket, this eliminates the interference on the line, which would cause disconnections when phone rang or when plugging and unplugging phone wire. Super relieved about this, this will definitely improve the reliability of the connection."

So, actually the copper fault doesn't worsen. I have absolutely no problems with my internet connection dropping out. What's more is that you can plug a traditional phone into the Smart Hub 2 router and it doesn't have any issues with receiving phone calls or ringing as some expressed concerns that old phones don't ring. I don't have this problem with my vintage phone.

Calling and answering doesn't cause internet to disconnect. Basically what you are getting with FTTC+Digital Voice is the equivalent of SOGEA (Single Order Generic Ethernet Access). There is no dial tone if you plug a normal telephone into the master socket, but the internet continues to work as normal.

I can 100% promise that if the original poster were to switch to DV this problem will naturally be resolved as it has done for me. The sync will not drop as phone calls don't trigger interference on the copper line. I have made multiple experiments as I have been on this service for 13 months now.

Digital Voice is really a blessing! Hopefully with this transition no one will need to raise a broadband fault. Obviously if the underlying fault is still there, who cares if DV naturally resolves it for good. I don't have to raise a broadband fault if my connection is no longer affected.

Hopefully by the end of 2025 when Analogue phone gets retired, Digital Voice will be the main default on all ISPs and this problem will naturally go away. That along with the FTTP rollout.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

I can 100% promise that if the original poster were to switch to DV this problem will naturally be resolved as it has done for me.

But with FTTC VDSL the copper connection between the cabinet and modem is analogue. One could say, with 100% certainty, that the unknown fault with the copper line would obviously no longer be a concern after a change to Full fibre FTTP. However this is currently not an option for the OP

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

I can 100% promise that if the original poster were to switch to DV this problem will naturally be resolved as it has done for me.

But with FTTC VDSL the copper connection between the cabinet and modem is analogue. One could say, with 100% certainty, that the unknown fault with the copper line would obviously no longer be a concern after a change to Full fibre FTTP. However this is currently not an option for the OP

As I have said I'm on copper with FTTC. I don't have Openreach FTTP yet.
If the problem with the copper line (broadband disconnecting) is only triggered when the analogue telephone line rings, picked up or connected and disconnected from the master socket then Digital Voice with FTTC will solve this problem.

What I'm saying is if the OP is not having general broadband disconnections with his copper line but this is only happening with the phone ringing, picked up or connected and disconnected. Then Digital Voice will definitely solve the problem.

I didn't have general internet disconnection related to noise margin when I was with TalkTalk FTTC. But with TalkTalk FTTC only offering analogue phone line, I had this problem for 2+ years.

I then joined 13 months ago BT FTTC Home Essentials 2 with Digital Voice. During the signup process I was given 2 options. To remain on analogue or to switch to the new Digital Voice service and I'll receive an Advanced Digital Home Phone with Alexa built in.

I opted for Digital Voice and received this new Digital Home phone along with Smart Hub 2 router. The phone is wireless and only needs to be registered to the router once by pressing the WPS button on the router.

As soon as I migrated from TalkTalk to BT 13 months ago I noticed that plugging and unplugging the traditional analogue phone wasn't causing internet disconnection! I then checked for dial tone and noticed that it was silent.

This indeed meant that the transition to digital voice from analogue is actually what solved the problem for me. This naturally resolved my disconnection problems because as soon as I tested by calling my own landline phone number with my mobile phone the internet connection was not interrupted! I did several tests to confirm that this wasn't just exceptionally not occurring.

I then made an experiment and plugged this vintage phone into the router and it worked, dial tone was working!

Currently only a few ISPs on FTTC offer Digital Voice as a service and BT is one of them. If this disconnection problem is happening and it is only being triggered with analogue phone then I can 100% reassure that Digital Voice migration will solve this problem permanently!

But this means you are restricted to only a few ISPs that offer Digital Voice with FTTC until December 2025 when all ISPs will migrate to Digital Voice.

Edited by BLaZiNgSPEED (Sun 13-Aug-23 19:12:34)

In reply to a post by OpticalWeetabix:

My understanding is that BT are now migrating their customers over to Digital Voice on a region-by-region basis - however is it possible for a BT Broadband (FTTC) customer to request to switch from PSTN to Digital Voice early, i.e. before the migration reaches their region?

Having an in-contract FTTC service makes it neigh on impossible to retain your existing landline number and switch to Digital Voice with another provider. Your only choice, if you really wanted VoIP now, then you are stuck with BT and no doubt lumbered with a fresh 24 month contract.

Out of contract, run with another ISP and use a third party supplier for VoIP; that way you will save sheds load of money.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

What I'm saying is if the OP is not having general broadband disconnections with his copper line but this is only happening with the phone ringing, picked up or connected and disconnected. Then Digital Voice will definitely solve the problem.

I didn't have general internet disconnection related to noise margin when I was with TalkTalk FTTC. But with TalkTalk FTTC only offering analogue phone line, I had this problem for 2+ years.

I then joined 13 months ago BT FTTC Home Essentials 2 with Digital Voice. During the signup process I was given 2 options. To remain on analogue or to switch to the new Digital Voice service and I'll receive an Advanced Digital Home Phone with Alexa built in.

I opted for Digital Voice and received this new Digital Home phone along with Smart Hub 2 router. The phone is wireless and only needs to be registered to the router once by pressing the WPS button on the router.

As soon as I migrated from TalkTalk to BT 13 months ago I noticed that plugging and unplugging the traditional analogue phone wasn't causing internet disconnection! I then checked for dial tone and noticed that it was silent.

This indeed meant that the transition to digital voice from analogue is actually what solved the problem for me. This naturally resolved my disconnection problems because as soon as I tested by calling my own landline phone number with my mobile phone the internet connection was not interrupted! I did several tests to confirm that this wasn't just exceptionally not occurring.

Well I had a similar problem several years ago but with ADSL: the BTw connection was for both PSTN voice and broadband, when the phone rang the broadband would drop sync but otherwise the ADSL SNRM etc. was fine. Eventually the problem was solved when I migrated only the ADSL to TalkTalk Business, kept the PSTN BTw voice and thus had a SMPF service. Doing this cured my problem but I would certainly not claim that would have been a solution in all cases.

Your moving from TalkTaik FTTC to BT retail FTTC (leaving aside the change from PSTN to DV) may have had a similar effect?

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

In reply to a post by OpticalWeetabix:

My understanding is that BT are now migrating their customers over to Digital Voice on a region-by-region basis - however is it possible for a BT Broadband (FTTC) customer to request to switch from PSTN to Digital Voice early, i.e. before the migration reaches their region?

Having an in-contract FTTC service makes it neigh on impossible to retain your existing landline number and switch to Digital Voice with another provider. Your only choice, if you really wanted VoIP now, then you are stuck with BT and no doubt lumbered with a fresh 24 month contract.

Am fully aware of this tie-in. However, I very much doubt there'd be any fresh 24 month contract imposed - those who are being migrated by BT to Digital Voice on the region-by-region basis stay on their present contract.

In reply to a post by trolleybus:

Out of contract, run with another ISP and use a third party supplier for VoIP; that way you will save sheds load of money.

Decoupling the broadband and voice (landline) service is the longer term plan. However whilst I'm vaguely aware of talk of regulatory proposals / requirements that should make doing this easier, I am unconvinced that reliable processes will be established in the near term to successfully port-out a 'landline' number (whether serviced by PSTN or a Digital Voice or equivalent service) without ceasing the accompanying DSL broadband service. Hopefully in time this might improve.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

This indeed meant that the transition to digital voice from analogue is actually what solved the problem for me.

I would say you have masked the issue (by moving to DV) rather than solved it.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

What I'm saying is if the OP is not having general broadband disconnections with his copper line but this is only happening with the phone ringing, picked up or connected and disconnected. Then Digital Voice will definitely solve the problem.

I didn't have general internet disconnection related to noise margin when I was with TalkTalk FTTC. But with TalkTalk FTTC only offering analogue phone line, I had this problem for 2+ years.

I then joined 13 months ago BT FTTC Home Essentials 2 with Digital Voice. During the signup process I was given 2 options. To remain on analogue or to switch to the new Digital Voice service and I'll receive an Advanced Digital Home Phone with Alexa built in.

I opted for Digital Voice and received this new Digital Home phone along with Smart Hub 2 router. The phone is wireless and only needs to be registered to the router once by pressing the WPS button on the router.

As soon as I migrated from TalkTalk to BT 13 months ago I noticed that plugging and unplugging the traditional analogue phone wasn't causing internet disconnection! I then checked for dial tone and noticed that it was silent.

This indeed meant that the transition to digital voice from analogue is actually what solved the problem for me. This naturally resolved my disconnection problems because as soon as I tested by calling my own landline phone number with my mobile phone the internet connection was not interrupted! I did several tests to confirm that this wasn't just exceptionally not occurring.

Well I had a similar problem several years ago but with ADSL: the BTw connection was for both PSTN voice and broadband, when the phone rang the broadband would drop sync but otherwise the ADSL SNRM etc. was fine. Eventually the problem was solved when I migrated only the ADSL to TalkTalk Business, kept the PSTN BTw voice and thus had a SMPF service. Doing this cured my problem but I would certainly not claim that would have been a solution in all cases.

Your moving from TalkTaik FTTC to BT retail FTTC (leaving aside the change from PSTN to DV) may have had a similar effect?

My problem with ADSL was much more serious as I was formerly Exchange Only Line. Not only was my phone causing the internet to disconnect, but I also had problems with SNR where it would drop to 0dB causing internet disconnection almost every day. My solution at that time was to cap my noise margin to 9dB.

This was a problem that affected at that time everyone in my area. I spoke to many neighbours hence, why I kept pushing my management for FTTP back in 2014-2015 but wayleave at that time was rejected.

Luckily Openreach upgraded our area to FTTC from EO Line in October 2019! The general internet disconnection problems were completely resolved. I mean now my internet connection is stable even with a 3dB noise margin profile. It used to be 6dB but due to crosstalk it dropped to 3dB. Anyway, I fully sync at 80/20Mbps so my connection speeds are stable.

I regularly check router stats and I see my connection is stable (no drop outs). Only when phone rang or when I picked up the phone the connection losing sync would occur. The same would apply if I unplugged the phone line from the master socket and re-plugged it.

FTTC partially resolved the problem with unplugging and replugging due to the new NTE5c MK4 Faceplate since the micro filter is included as part of the face plate. But the ongoing problem persisted until my migration to BT.

The thing is in the past I spoke to Openreach and had an engineer come but they were never able to fix the problem.
But yes, I'm glad that with Digital Voice the problem is gone now.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

This indeed meant that the transition to digital voice from analogue is actually what solved the problem for me.

I would say you have masked the issue (by moving to DV) rather than solved it.

You're right, I've only masked the issue rather than fixing the underlying problem. But nevertheless, I'm still relieved that Digital Voice doesn't cause this problem. Ringing home landline number doesn't cause connection drop outs.

As long as it is no longer causing the drop out, I have nothing to worry. For me "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". As long as it is not causing me a problem, I don't need this underlying fault fixed since my general broadband connection is now rock stable.

That is why I posted my experience to reassure the OP that his problem will naturally be resolved with DV.

Frankly, by the end of December 2025 when analogue gets retired and DV becomes the new default, I'm sure many people will have had the problem naturally disappear. Many of them I'm sure will still have the underlying fault, but they won't even know that the problem exists! It will be masked but it won't be causing any of us problems.

Not to mention that by then most of us will either have Openreach FTTP or another Altnet FTTP network. Just like now I have Community Fibre available. I'll soon switch to Community Fibre and this FTTC service will be something I can ignore for good. Obviously it could be handy for future.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

This indeed meant that the transition to digital voice from analogue is actually what solved the problem for me.

I would say you have masked the issue (by moving to DV) rather than solved it.

It is similar to that old joke about going to the doctors...

Patient: Doctor, whenever I lift my arm up it hurts.
Doctor: Then stop lifting your arm up.