Please can I have no "upgrade"?

Hello, I'm with BT for a long time and have Fibre 1, an old Openreach HG612 Modem and a Billion 7800 wired router (no Wi-Fi; very reliable) and three phones on a landline. (I don't use Smart Hub 2.) This combination works well and I wouldn't want to "touch anything". But... because I'm on universal credit temporarily, I asked if they could reduce my bill. I was told that it's possible to reduce my broadband to £20. Also I was told my installation is old and should be renewed. They would do this in 2 weeks. I asked if I could continue using my devices as before and if anything would change. Everything would work as before. Later when I got my confirmation email, I read that I would get Fibre 2 now (instead of my Fibre 1) and "Digital Voice". Next day I called the technical department and was told that I "will need to use the BT Smart Hub 2, as it won't work without the BT Smart Hub 2". Also I would no longer need my microfilter, instead need to plug my phone[s?] in the SH2 instead. I would need a mobile phone in case of emergency.



Really? Can't I just have the price reduction and refuse that "upgrade"? 
If not, is it not possible to continue using my combination of devices and avoid the SH2? 
But where would my phones go? I'm afraid I would also lose the independence from the mains power supply? 

Many thanks.

Unfortunately BT are switching off the PSTN by the end of December 2025.

If you purchase an ATA such as the Cisco ATA 191 and subsribe to a VOIP provider your phones will still work.

Transfering your number to a VOIP provider without causing your broadband to be cancelled is the tricky bit
Moving your services to a company such as A&A could help.

If you ever get Openreach FTTP then you will be provided with an ONT to which you would connect your router instead of the HG612.

The analogue phone service that your landline uses is sold by Openreach as "WLR" - Wholesale Line Rental - and this is being closed. It went stop sell on 5 September 2023 (meaning you can no longer order such a service), and will be completely switched off in December 2025.

Existing services linked to a WLR line - such as FTTC - can continue as-is for now, but cannot be modified (e.g. change speed) or transferred to another provider.

As a result, any change to your service you request today will cause you to be reprovisioned as a customer with SOGEA (= data-only FTTC) and digital voice over the top.

If you choose to remain on your existing more expensive package (including any in-contract and end-of-contract price rises) then things will remain as they are, but you'll be forced to change by December 2025 anyway, so you might as well get it sorted now.

There are three issues I see:

1. Your landline phone service will be delivered as "digital voice" using a port on the router. That part is no big deal: plug your phone(s) into the router. If you have extension wiring in your house, it will need a slight rejig to connect into the router (isolating it from the incoming line).

2. Digital voice is locally powered, so if you want to be able to make and receive landline phonecalls during a power cut, you'll need to buy a UPS. (In addition, it will only work for as long as the batteries in the cabinet last; that's not an issue with FTTP though, when it becomes available to you). If you have mobile coverage then just use your mobile phone for emergency calls.

3. If you choose to remain with BT, then note that their Digital Voice service is locked down and can *only* be accessed via the Smart Hub. That's a design decision made by BT in the interests of "security" (or so they would say). If you don't like this, and you don't want to sit your own router behind the BT router (which would give you two levels of NAT), then you'll either need to move your voice service elsewhere, or move your whole Internet service to a different provider. (I'm given to understand that Zen will let you have your SIP login details so you can connect your own ATA; I'm not sure about Sky and Vodafone)

Moving your voice service to a separate IP-based telephony provider has the advantage of decoupling it completely from your broadband service, which offers you a wider choice of broadband providers who don't offer voice at all (e.g. Plusnet and many altnets)

I Can confirm as a reseller we can no longer place any voice orders other than VOIP service with app and SOGEA or the 0.5Mbps over FTTP (which we prefer to do with one dect phone (least preferred))

You can have the BT 40/10 service for £15 pm on universal credit.

I note that the OP is "on universal credit temporarily" and probably doesn't want the hassle right now.

Whilst in general it's good to help people on low incomes, I think this is the wrong way to go about it. It creates bureaucracy for its own sake, and it generates incentives to stay on benefits.

If you want people on benefits to be £10 per month better off, then put £10 more in their pockets. If you want the broadband providers to pay for this, then tax the broadband providers more - which is essentially what this is, in a round-about and inefficient way. Or just tax the whole population, since ultimately it's the broadband customers who pay.

You can have the BT 40/10 service for £15 pm on universal credit.

You can but you lose the PSTN land line and get Digital Voice. Any product change triggers a one-way move to Digital Voice.

Hello and thanks a lot for your answer(s)!

It is still a bit confusing, because BT didn't tell what (hardware) exactly they would replace/install.

I checked, and FTTP (FULL fibre) *is* availble in our street now (special price even) - so would I get an ONT in any case, even for Fibre 2?
If yes, would *this* still require the Smart Hub 2 or could I use my own router?
I mean does Digital phone generally require Smart Hub 2 - regardless of ADSL/FTTC or FTTP?
I want to avoid the Smart Hub 2. It gives me zero information about what happens on my LAN/Ethernet ports.

In my master socket I'm using a microfilter and a "BT Telephone Socket Line 3 Way Splitter" (Amazon number B081K3KFSX) with three corded, analogue phones: 2x Philips Scala M110W/05 and a BT Duet 210. (I don't want wireless.) Could that 3 way splitter go direct in that phone Socket of the Smart Hub 2?

If I would have another company for my phone, would I get a separate line for that or would they use the same line which is used by BT broadband?

BTW Are there *corded* "Digital Voice"/VoIP phones? I couldn't find one.

Many thanks.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/isps/bt/packages/bt-h...

If as you say FTTP Full Fibre is available to your premises then an ONT would be fitted if you ordered the BT Home Essentials 2 Social Tariff FTTP product.

Regarding the required router and Digital Voice it will probably be necessary to use the Smart Hub 2 (?) I'm not sure if a three way splitter could be plugged into the Smart Hub 2 in order to feed 3 phones though. At a minimum a single wired analogue phone would certainly be OK - a micro filter will not be needed. Also your current phone number will be retained. LAN connections shouldn't be a problem.

Check with BT retail for the full package price and confirm the terms and duration of the contract.

Good luck.

It's part of the contract agreement. I'm also on BT Home Essentials Fibre 2 since last year July 2022 for £20 a month. Back then I had the option to select Analogue or Digital Voice. I opted for DV instead.

You do get SH2 and DV phone. You can only use the phone with SH2. However, I'm pretty sure you can still use your own router but obviously you won't be able to use the Digital Voice Service.

The Alexa Phone you get is also wireless so you don't need to plug that into your router. Only traditional phones need to be plugged into SH2.

This is certainly a drawback as you can't use your own phone with your own router. But at least with this service there are no price hikes. If you are simply asking BT to reduce your normal package to £20 a month it is not guaranteed to remain at £20 as BT can easily price hike.

But with this BT Home Essentials package your price is fixed so that is a peace of mind! I've been on this service for 15 months now and total bill is £20 a month and I can leave the contract penalty free at any moment.

Alternatively you can switch to cheap monthly RWG mobile package that's only £2 a month and you get 750MB data with 100 minutes and 100 texts including 5G. Or a year upfront of £20 and you get 250 minutes/texts with 2GB data. That way you aren't dependent on the telephone service.

Digital Voice as a whole is more reliable. You don't need micro filters and phone calls won't lead to odd broadband disconnections like with analogue so overall I don't see a problem.

Is there any particular reason why you want to avoid using the Smart Hub 2? Unless the router isn't faulty I wouldn't worry about it. I guess the only drawback for me is the automatic router firmware upgrades, which you can't disable. It happens once every 2-6 months and the 14 day reboots, which also go away with time. Other than that, I've not noticed any other issues needing to use own router.

> Is there any particular reason why you want to avoid using the Smart Hub 2?
> I guess the only drawback for me is the automatic router firmware upgrades, which you can't disable.
> It happens once every 2-6 months and the 14 day reboots, which also go away with time.

I'm used to using Billion modem/routers, they are so reliable!
There is a hardware switch to turn off Wi-Fi, which is very important to me.
Then there are more LEDs/feedback from the device, which computer transfers to which, or communicates with the internet. Can be very helpful.
Furthermore I like to do my firmware updates and reboot when I want, and not when some remote computer decides to.

Well, the good news is that you can turn off WiFi on the Smart Hub 2 https://i.imgur.com/YMkeUpy.jpg
Here's my screenshot. From the router settings. Going to the Advanced settings--->Advanced wireless>There's this button Off for 2.4GHz and 5GHz or you can press the Disable all wireless and switch it to a Yes.

"All wireless functionality on your Hub has been completely disabled.

To re-enable wireless on your Hub, set the 'Disable all wireless' switch to 'No'."

Yeah, it's true it doesn't have the LED light indicators like with other routers. It only has that circular blue light around the BT logo indicating internet connectivity. But sure, there is no blinking lights to indicate data transfer.

I agree, the automatic firmware upgrades are the biggest grip I have with the Smart Hub 2 router. Recently it has been happening a little more frequently once every 2 months. There was one in September and November the 6th. Usually they are meant to happen once every 6 months.

With TalkTalk I remember it was once in 6-9 months. But overall TalkTalk was a less reliable service than BT. Firmware upgrades also happen only in the mornings between 2-4am.

I'm looking to soon switch to Community Fibre FTTP where their Linksys router can be re-flashed with official firmware so that way I can disable automatic firmware upgrade.

I don't really care about the landline telephone service, I very rarely use it as I have RWG Mobile SIM that is very cheap. £20 year upfront which works out as £1.60 a month and you get 250 minutes, texts and 2GB data.

Alternatively, I've got another option for you. TalkTalk broadband (no line) – six months free for Universal Credit. https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/compare-broadband-...
FREE average 38Mb speed broadband only (no line) for six months and you can then switch to a cheap SIM like RWG for phone calls.

Unfortunately, for now if you want landline phone with Digital Voice there isn't an option to use your own router and connect phone with it. That's the biggest restriction with Digital Voice. Only the ISP router has a telephone port and the Alexa phone handset is not compatible with third party routers.

But given that for £20 I can get Community Fibre 500Mbps or £25 for 1Gbps without landline that for me is a much better overall option.
The £20 social tariffs for 40/80Mbps aren't worthy especially if you've got FTTP as an option. But if you don't have FTTP all I can suggest is cheaper mobile tariff.

Or you can just keep the Smart Hub 2 handy for phone calls and use it separately. I know it can be a hassle. It depends on how much importance you give to the phone service. I'd like to believe that having a mobile SIM service is the better option since with Digital Voice you are 100% dependent on a reliable internet connection and if the power goes down then telephone service will also go down.