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Standard User mr_mojo
(knowledge is power) Sun 21-Mar-10 04:23:49
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The BT FTTC line stats thread


[link to this post]
 
Hi guys,

Watching the BT FTTC rollout is very exciting. It appears BT are being extremely conservative on their line checker, fair enough as it's a new product.

I thought something that would be very interesting to see would be people who are activated (of which there are a few that I can see around various forums) would be to post their line stats with a rough distance from the cab so we could see what potential speeds are like either when BT allow higher speeds themselves or if LLU providers are allowed to override the sync speeds.

I have no idea personally how one would be able to obtain the stats, but if some kind person could find out and get a compilation of stats and line distances, we could work out roughly what top speeds would be available which is of interest to all.

Edited by mr_mojo (Sun 21-Mar-10 04:24:03)

Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 21-Mar-10 21:23:34
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: mr_mojo] [link to this post]
 
having the same equipment (?) in each case should make the comparison reliable, and you only need to find one set of instructions on how to access the stats.

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sun 21-Mar-10 21:36:41
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
At the moment, they will all be using the default Openreach modem/router thingy (training later on this week), So that will be a standard for the moment. More difficult, is folk trying to establish, accurately, the length of their D-side.


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Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 21-Mar-10 23:28:17
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
be interesting to see if the user interface of the Openreach modem is open to the user, its a Huawei I think.

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User mr_mojo
(knowledge is power) Mon 22-Mar-10 00:59:22
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Yes I'm aware of this. It's by no means an exact science, and I'm not saying we should set out with that intention. More really just of curiosity that may be somewhat helpful for people smile. I also guess that interference will hurt speeds exponentially more on VDSL2+, since there's so much data going down that ol' bit of rusty copper.

I've done searches every week or so on Google and various forums hoping that someone will have figured it out and posted up some stats; but no success so far. Someone get the ball rolling - even if it's just letting us know what model and make the modem is so we can start investigating how to get the stats out so people can start posting them.

I'm happy to graph them all and stick them into Excel once we've got a few results.
Standard User uno
(member) Mon 22-Mar-10 01:09:35
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: mr_mojo] [link to this post]
 
We've got a few connected with the best being 39.8Mb with 10Mb up. I'll see if I can get the exact stats from the user smile

Matt

-
uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
Our current offers
Standard User mr_mojo
(knowledge is power) Mon 22-Mar-10 01:16:58
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Thanks very much Matt. Do you know what make/model the modems are?
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Mon 22-Mar-10 07:43:13
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: mr_mojo] [link to this post]
 
made by Huawei, HG612 I believe - "VDSL2 Home Gateway Customized for Britain Telecom" (sic)

looks to include wireless (?)

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User msjw
(newbie) Mon 22-Mar-10 11:42:21
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: mr_mojo] [link to this post]
 
Here you go;

Distance from cab. ~200-300 meters.

Best speeds achieved (though a speed tester [mybroadbandspeed.co.uk] - 37.7Mbps Down, 1.9Mbps Up (Currently capped - regrade ordered to get 10Mbps)

Actual results from engineer's test equipment at socket - 39Mpbs Down, 15Mbps Up

At the cab. speeds (tested by engineer) - 39.5Mbps Down 15.5Mpbs Up.

Availability checker reports - 19.5Mpbs Down, 7.7Mps Up

ISP/Package - BT Business Total Broadband Fibre ('plus' on order)

Equipment;
* Huawei EchoLife HG612 VDSL Modem
* 2Wire 2701HGV-C Wireless router (b/g only) - the router doesn't appear to report sync speeds or line stats anywhere, so I can't quote those.

Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Mon 22-Mar-10 11:53:29
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: msjw] [link to this post]
 
the router doesn't appear to report sync speeds

it won't, it's a router. You would need to talk to the modem for that. Does the 2Wire have an external IP address ?

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User msjw
(newbie) Mon 22-Mar-10 12:21:37
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by yarwell:
it won't, it's a router. You would need to talk to the modem for that. Does the 2Wire have an external IP address ?

Of course, begging my pardon sir - what I was meaning to say was that the router, as the only point of information I can get to, is not reporting the modems sync speeds. With the router also being the only interface into the modem (at least from my side), I kind of assumed that it might.

I can access the web interface to the 2wire router over a local IP. I don't know of any way to access it via any ssh/telnet interface, like my old netgear. I also don't know of any way to connect to the HG612 modem in the same way - connecting direct to its LAN1/LAN2 ports doesn't give me any dynamic IP (ok, no DHCP server) - nor do I know it's static IP settings to be able to connect to it. If you know any more, please do share, as I'd like to know, thx.

Standard User uno
(member) Mon 22-Mar-10 12:55:14
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
No wireless from the ones we have seen. Single ethernet port at the rear to connect your own "cable" router that supports PPPoE.

Matt

-
uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
Our current offers
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Mon 22-Mar-10 13:16:48
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: msjw] [link to this post]
 
so does the 2wire's GUI show an external IP address or a WAN side local IP - if the latter then the default gateway would be the address to try.

Probably a PPPoE session on the 2wire passing through the Huawei at a guess, your PC might work connected directly if you set up a PPPoE session for example in windows recent editions "make a broadband connection" wizard.

Does your Huawei have wireless ? the public domain info talks of a wireless interface and a button to turn it on/off.

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User msjw
(newbie) Mon 22-Mar-10 14:28:08
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
The 2wire has my external static IP address assigned to it. I'll see if I can establish a PPPoE session later.

The modem has no visible wireless interface - no box light for WLAN, no signal being generated, no wireless on/off button (no interface to configure it!). The modem doesn't look big enough to hold any decent size of antenna anyway. There might be circuitry inside, but there's a "warranty void if broken'' seal on the box to that stops me sneaking a peek for anything obvious.

Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Mon 22-Mar-10 15:11:09
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: msjw] [link to this post]
 
does the box match this page ?

a wifi antenna can be the size of a 50p but the Huawei site may just be messed up.

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 22-Mar-10 19:01:59
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
The Openreach modem has the router side disabled, i.e. just a simple IP presentation to the device connecting to the Ethernet port, i.e. very like a lot of US DSL setups.

Do not believe it is using PPPoE either.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Mon 22-Mar-10 20:08:25
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Do not believe it is using PPPoE either.

I think it is, as it's Generic Ethernet Access and the router isn't getting the WAN address via DHCP. See also Openreach " Following the upgrade it was found that on some services, during the re-establishment of PPPoE* sessions, the Openreach network did not report the VDSL line rate in the Intermediate Agent message."

SIN498 talks of both PPP and DHCP.

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User uno
(member) Mon 22-Mar-10 20:13:47
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Do not believe it is using PPPoE either.


To the end users CPE? Why do you say that?

The lines that we have are all using PPPoE.. and to answer the question by another poster earlier, yes you can plug a machine in directly and use PPPoE with the provided user/pass to get connected.

Matt

-
uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
Our current offers
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 23-Mar-10 00:32:52
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: msjw] [link to this post]
 
interesting stats, thanks for the post.
Standard User mr_mojo
(knowledge is power) Tue 23-Mar-10 05:15:20
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: msjw] [link to this post]
 
Thanks very much msjw. Hopefully someone on here can figure out how to get line stats out of the modem; I know someone that works for openreach so I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if they can put me in touch with some knowledge. I'll try and update the thread with some information.
Standard User msjw
(newbie) Tue 23-Mar-10 16:10:20
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: mr_mojo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mr_mojo:
Thanks very much msjw. Hopefully someone on here can figure out how to get line stats out of the modem; I know someone that works for openreach so I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if they can put me in touch with some knowledge. I'll try and update the thread with some information.

No problem - I'm also hopeful that we can get stats from the modem somehow.

I can also confirm that I can connect my machine using a PPPoE session direct to the modem. When I do that I get the my static IP assigned to me (and default gateway set to my static IP too). I can't seem to find more info on how to access any modem interface when I connect via PPPoE, though.

Standard User oddius
(newbie) Thu 25-Mar-10 09:53:41
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: msjw] [link to this post]
 
First full day since activation

Engineers measurements: Distance from cab. 400 meters, Attenuation 11dB

Best speeds achieved Speedtest.net - 29.36Mbps Down, 9.38Mbps Up
[IMG]http://www.speedtest.net/result/760250280.png[/IMG]

Actual results from engineer's test equipment at socket - unknown
At the cab. speeds (tested by engineer) - unknown

Availability checker reports - 20.5Mpbs Down, 7.7Mps Up

ISP/Package - BT Infinity Option 2

Equipment;
* Huawei HG612 VDSL Modem
* BT Infinity Home Hub 2

Edited by oddius (Thu 25-Mar-10 11:28:48)

Standard User msjw
(newbie) Thu 25-Mar-10 22:55:37
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: oddius] [link to this post]
 
Did you try any of the other speed testers? I've found they vary greatly - even the speedtest.net one is very sensitive to the server location (& capacity/capability for VDSL?). The most reliable one I've found is mybroadbandspeed.co.uk.

For me, it was strange that the Openreach engineer preferred to use speedtest.net rather than the BT one, speedtester.bt.com.

Edited by msjw (Thu 25-Mar-10 22:57:04)

Standard User oddius
(newbie) Fri 26-Mar-10 08:26:47
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: msjw] [link to this post]
 
I've now run all 3 at around 8:10am, yes its very interesting speedtest.net automatic choice is not the fastest, I selected several different servers nearer to me London & MK and you get similar results to BroadbandMax.

BroadbandMax
My Broadband Speed
Speedtest.net

Edited by oddius (Fri 26-Mar-10 08:27:35)

Standard User cleverly
(newbie) Fri 26-Mar-10 08:47:04
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: oddius] [link to this post]
 
Hi guys

Sorry to Hijack the thread, got my Infinity installation next week (was originally scheduled for Tuesday just gone....)

Just want to know how long the installation took? Im on holidays next week and my brother is going to cover the house on the day on install. Just want to give him a rough idea on how long it will take.

Bear in mind that i need a Data extension kit run to my PC upstairs, don't know how long this takes

Any help would be great

Thanks
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 26-Mar-10 09:53:47
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: cleverly] [link to this post]
 
Data extension kit, just guess at the time it would take to tack a phone extension over the route - think about where you want the wiring to go and let brother know, move furniture to encourage them to take your preferred route

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 26-Mar-10 09:56:13
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: oddius] [link to this post]
 
Some speedtests give a peak speed, i.e. if speed is variable they still give a feel good figure (OOKLA based services)

Our tester often fairs badly, but gives a better indication of download performance, as we average over the total time of the download.

The tbbmeter tool is a good way of seeing how fast what you actually download is running at, rather than running a speedtest all the time. It also has a couple of tests built into it.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User cleverly
(newbie) Fri 26-Mar-10 10:04:58
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Data extension kit, just guess at the time it would take to tack a phone extension over the route - think about where you want the wiring to go and let brother know, move furniture to encourage them to take your preferred route


Lol yeah i have made it as "simple" as possible for him, everything is moved out of the way and showed him 3 tmes where i want it placed. Something tells me he still might get confused!

Just looking for a estimated time for install, on the BT site it says it can take up to 3 hours.
Standard User oddius
(newbie) Fri 26-Mar-10 13:14:11
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: cleverly] [link to this post]
 
Overall all from swapping over the pair at the cabinet (claim to fame we are the first connection to the cabinet in our road) to installing the equipment less that an hour.

We had no other stuff to worry about, ie BT Vision, no data cable extension etc, it was a new install on the master socket downstairs, we'd run a 30m cat5e cable for the switch upstairs we prefer wired to wireless.

He's also supposed to install the software on the CD, if you don't want it tell him.

So now its goodbye to Demon 2.5mb/s HO2+, and the 2nd line.

Oh yes plenty of chat but no cup of tea.

Edited by oddius (Fri 26-Mar-10 13:29:50)

Standard User msjw
(newbie) Fri 26-Mar-10 13:19:11
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: cleverly] [link to this post]
 
Took just over 2 hours from point engineer rang from the cab to say he was about to start to him finishing all his standard tests (which were repeated many times because they mostly failed). The area around the master socket was pre-cleared so didn't have to involve any tidying.

However, I didn't have a data extension kit installed. (Although I did get one left for diy as my office room is moving from the master socket location to another room soon.) I'd bet on up to 3hrs if a kit install is required. Also, the engineers are very new to this - mine was just out of training - so they may get more efficient over time.

(When compared to oddius' 1hr time, mine seems long - but I did make the engineer a cup of tea and had a good chat to get more info!)

Edited by msjw (Fri 26-Mar-10 13:22:23)

Standard User oddius
(newbie) Fri 26-Mar-10 13:28:36
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread *DELETED*


[re: cleverly] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by oddius
Standard User oddius
(newbie) Fri 26-Mar-10 13:32:54
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Some speedtests give a peak speed, i.e. if speed is variable they still give a feel good figure (OOKLA based services)

Our tester often fairs badly, but gives a better indication of download performance, as we average over the total time of the download.

The tbbmeter tool is a good way of seeing how fast what you actually download is running at, rather than running a speedtest all the time. It also has a couple of tests built into it.


I've used ttbmeter in the past, trouble is 4 networked PC's.
Standard User msjw
(newbie) Fri 26-Mar-10 13:39:55
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Some speedtests give a peak speed, i.e. if speed is variable they still give a feel good figure (OOKLA based services)

Our tester often fairs badly, but gives a better indication of download performance, as we average over the total time of the download.

The tbbmeter tool is a good way of seeing how fast what you actually download is running at, rather than running a speedtest all the time. It also has a couple of tests built into it.


Fair point. As I can't get my sync speeds or line stats out of my router/modem, I'm interested in peak just to see what it should be capable of. Also, it's not so cool to compare sustainable/average download performance rather than peak performance/capability - I know I'm setting up the reply "it's not the size that matters; it's what you can do with it", but I'll leave that there!

Fwiw - I can't get much more than 20Mb out thinkbroadband's tester - yet when I try some of the others, such as Ookla, I don't see the dial dropping below 35Mb throughout the test. I appreciate this is just a visual representation of many things going on under the covers though.

Edited by msjw (Fri 26-Mar-10 13:41:27)

Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sat 27-Mar-10 21:20:53
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: cleverly] [link to this post]
 
It's a 'how long is a piece of string' question. There have been conversions where the engineer finds a fault on the pair, and so has to resolve this. As mentioned, fitting data extension kits take time, and also if the house isn't wired correctly this has to be sorted.
The 'tests' taking a long time, as mentioned, will be because they are having a few 'issues' with the automated tests that they are being asked to complete.

Good luck, it might be me !

Standard User TonyHoyle
(knowledge is power) Sun 28-Mar-10 13:26:29
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Why would you think that it wasn't using PPPoE?

It's just a VDSL2 modem, connecting into the same 21cn infrastructure. When I had mine installed I literally unplugged my ADSL modem and connected the VDSL2 one the engineer had brought and it came right up with the exact same settings.

It does seem to be a dumb modem - if there's any smarts in there at all they're disabled.. the hardware has 2 ethernet ports and a battery backup port but no functionality on the second ethernet port at all.

It doesn't respond to any of my probes.. I'll probably open it to see if there's anything like a serial port in there.
Standard User TonyHoyle
(knowledge is power) Sun 28-Mar-10 14:00:50
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: TonyHoyle] [link to this post]
 
OK opened..

Image of modem

There's space for another 2 ethernet ports, with the addition of a couple of components. The serial port connection is clearly marked.

Contrary to the spec on the huewei website there is no wifi nor is there anywhere it could be added.

Edited by TonyHoyle (Sun 28-Mar-10 14:01:51)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 28-Mar-10 14:01:21
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: TonyHoyle] [link to this post]
 
If its PPPoE where are you supplying the credentials for the PPPoE session.

The hardware can do PPPoE internally, but the presence of the PPPoE is not visible to any hardware you connect to the modem. WHen you say PPPoE the usuall picture people have is they need to tell their PC to use a PPPoE username/password

http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/products/nga/fttc/do... page 7, pppoe or DHPC, with the CP setting the PPPoE if they want.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User TonyHoyle
(knowledge is power) Sun 28-Mar-10 14:04:31
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
The modem is just a bridge.

If you connect the modem to a PC that is exactly what you would do (and I assume most people are, except those on BT Retail using homehubs) - set it up for pppoe and supply a username/password. Mine's connected to a little ITX box I use for the purpose, running linux.

Edited by TonyHoyle (Sun 28-Mar-10 14:06:38)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 28-Mar-10 14:06:44
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: TonyHoyle] [link to this post]
 
The BT box is a customised box hence variation in specs?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User TonyHoyle
(knowledge is power) Sun 28-Mar-10 14:07:41
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yes does seem to be a custom job - the product code doesn't appear anywhere except once on the huewei website.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 28-Mar-10 14:09:23
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: TonyHoyle] [link to this post]
 
So you MUST use a PPPoE client, i.e. simple DHCP will not work?

PPPoE clients are usually something to be avoided. Hopefully most ISP's will supply a suitable cable/dsl router setup for ease of use

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User oddius
(newbie) Sun 28-Mar-10 17:38:07
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
From AASIP's site for the FTTC product.

Includes an VDSL modem as part of the ongoing service. Customers will need a PPPoE capable router or software to use the service.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Mon 29-Mar-10 10:43:18
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
DHCP doesn't work, someone further up the thread tried it. I foresee plenty of confusion with people buying routers in PC World "for a BT line" when they need a "cable router" for FTTC services over their phone line.

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 29-Mar-10 11:46:00
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Talk about hand the VM cable sales people an easy point when trying to sell.

I can understand them perhaps wanting to use PPPoE to support things, but it needs to be hidden away from people to avoid the router/PC problems.

Hopefully PPPoE stacks have improved of late.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ritcH
(experienced) Mon 29-Mar-10 12:06:15
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: TonyHoyle] [link to this post]
 
Will I be able to connect the modem to my Draytek 2820 ADSL2+ router via the WAN2 port?

Draytek 2820n
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 29-Mar-10 12:20:22
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: ritcH] [link to this post]
 
Assuming WAN2 port is ethernet then yes

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User ritcH
(experienced) Mon 29-Mar-10 13:27:42
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Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yes it is, thanks for the help.

Draytek 2820n
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 29-Mar-10 13:38:36
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: oddius] [link to this post]
 
ta, havent had the time to do all my usual reading around

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 29-Mar-10 18:16:19
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Talk about hand the VM cable sales people an easy point when trying to sell.

I can understand them perhaps wanting to use PPPoE to support things, but it needs to be hidden away from people to avoid the router/PC problems.

Hopefully PPPoE stacks have improved of late.


Given that FTTP services in Japan and S Korea have been delivered via PPPoE for some time I suspect it'll be fine.

Are you thinking of the issues people were having with running PPPoE on 20CN DSL where they were actually running PPPoEoA which caused some interesting issues?

This will be native PPPoE rather than a mass of encapsulation on encapsulation and supply a 1500 byte MTU to end users.

Stuck on the One Way Internet?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 29-Mar-10 18:19:13
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
"This will be native PPPoE rather than a mass of encapsulation on encapsulation and supply a 1500 byte MTU to end users. "

Was thinking of the fun when you start getting LLU providers involved who seem to randomly alter the MTU on their networks, and people confused over what to set on their PC.

Will have to drag myself to some BT demo centre to have a play one day I guess.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 29-Mar-10 18:33:12
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
"This will be native PPPoE rather than a mass of encapsulation on encapsulation and supply a 1500 byte MTU to end users. "

Was thinking of the fun when you start getting LLU providers involved who seem to randomly alter the MTU on their networks, and people confused over what to set on their PC.

Will have to drag myself to some BT demo centre to have a play one day I guess.


Shouldn't be an issue, MTU is part of PPPoE negotiation and networks should be happily able to carry jumbo frames right up to the BRAS where the encapsulation is stripped or will adjust MTU with client to 1492 to allow for the 8 byte PPP header.

Certainly it doesn't seem to be an issue for the Far Eastern networks though it's noteworthy that there have been a few issues here and there with Verizon FiOS before it was converted to DHCP.

It should also be noted though that all of the current connections are through BT Wholesale, so the requirement for PPPoE will be from BTW in order to separate connections between wholesale customers on their BRAS and customers' LTS. The BTO product supports DHCP and no reason why LLUOs can't use DHCP as indeed Be/O2 already do.

Stuck on the One Way Internet?
Standard User msjw
(newbie) Tue 30-Mar-10 10:53:16
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: msjw] [link to this post]
 
Sorry to hijack the thread back to it's original purpose wink

I've had my line regraded from Total BB Fibre (2Mbps max up) to Fibre Plus (10Mbps max up) and now I'm getting [from best speed test results];;

37.6Mbps Down
8.4Mbps Up

Again, distance from cab. ~200-300 metres.

Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Tue 30-Mar-10 11:20:40
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
1492 MTU, shirley ?

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User Adsl24
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 21-Apr-10 09:55:03
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: mr_mojo] [link to this post]
 
Just had FTTC installed this morning.

Looking good smile

http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/results.php?t=12718...

Date of Speed Test: 2010-04-21 09:49:47
Download Speed: 37453 kbps (4681.6 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 8242 kbps (1030.3 KB/sec transfer rate)

I don't have a router to hand so i'm just using PPPoE via the PC direct to the modem.

James
ADSL24 Broadband
http://adsl24.co.uk

Edited by Adsl24 (Wed 21-Apr-10 09:55:40)

Standard User Robbo
(regular) Wed 21-Apr-10 20:16:23
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Adsl24] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Adsl24:
Just had FTTC installed this morning.

Looking good smile

http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/results.php?t=12718...

Date of Speed Test: 2010-04-21 09:49:47
Download Speed: 37453 kbps (4681.6 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 8242 kbps (1030.3 KB/sec transfer rate)

I don't have a router to hand so i'm just using PPPoE via the PC direct to the modem.


Very nice congrats, looking forward to when they finally 'upgrade' our exchange.
Standard User IamQ
(experienced) Wed 21-Apr-10 20:22:21
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Robbo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Robbo:
Very nice congrats, looking forward to when they finally 'upgrade' our exchange.


Not the exchange - the cab... Like me they might do all the cab's but the one you are on heh.
Standard User Pgre
(experienced) Mon 26-Apr-10 12:31:39
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: msjw] [link to this post]
 
Finally got FTTC installed this morning.
BT Engineer was great by the way... really nice guy... (they had some problem in the PCP - where they had mixed up the D & E side cables from the FTTC Cab but he spotted it and now I am connected)

Speed from test equipment ..
40Mbps Down i.e pretty much no loss from PCP which is great.. I am about 400-500M from it.
I forgot to ask the UP speed but I am guessing it would be around the 15 as other have reported.

Attenuation was 16.2db and 10.9 SNR..
I am getting between 30 & 32 Mbps throughput and about 8Mbps up. It may improve if the SNR Margin drops down. (Thats if I assume it works like ADSL and has a training period).

ADSL Checker said 19 and 7 for me..

So far its great especially the up speed when sending work emails with large attachments.

Regards PGre
Standard User ggremlin
(regular) Mon 26-Apr-10 12:40:13
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Pgre] [link to this post]
 
what sort of latency do you get?
could you post a tracert to bbc.co.uk
Standard User Pgre
(experienced) Mon 26-Apr-10 13:44:19
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: ggremlin] [link to this post]
 
Its not completing for some reason..
So far I get to here..

traceroute to bbc.co.uk (212.58.224.138), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 api (192.168.1.254) 3.452 ms 1.019 ms 0.983 ms
2 217.32.147.2 (217.32.147.2) 7.974 ms 7.801 ms 7.981 ms
3 217.32.147.46 (217.32.147.46) 9.251 ms 9.426 ms 9.204 ms
4 213.120.177.66 (213.120.177.66) 10.972 ms 11.123 ms 11.202 ms
5 213.120.176.50 (213.120.176.50) 11.191 ms 11.202 ms 11.427 ms
6 213.120.176.182 (213.120.176.182) 10.843 ms 11.256 ms 11.245 ms
7 213.120.176.141 (213.120.176.141) 11.537 ms 11.309 ms 11.474 ms
8 core1-gig10-0-0.faraday.ukcore.bt.net (62.172.102.133) 11.469 ms 11.367 ms 10.931 ms
9 62.172.103.5 (62.172.103.5) 12.306 ms 12.292 ms 11.731 ms
10 core1-pos14-1.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.125.225) 12.346 ms 12.301 ms 12.158 ms
11 194.74.65.42 (194.74.65.42) 12.533 ms 12.585 ms 12.427 ms
12 212.58.238.153 (212.58.238.153) 126.854 ms 155.987 ms 200.719 ms
13 * * *

Not sure what the issue is.. hmmm
I'll try again later.

Regards PGre
Standard User Ianph
(member) Mon 26-Apr-10 14:16:36
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Pgre] [link to this post]
 
the issuse is at hop 12 and according to a ip lookup website its a BBC owned address
Standard User ggremlin
(regular) Mon 26-Apr-10 16:03:10
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Pgre] [link to this post]
 
thanks

looks like the 'last mile' takes circa 8ms wink

edit:
8ms to cabinet, and <10 to exchange

Edited by ggremlin (Mon 26-Apr-10 20:14:27)

Standard User Addnan
(learned) Mon 26-Apr-10 16:56:51
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: ggremlin] [link to this post]
 
Hows online gaming on FTTC?

O2 Standard 8mbs.
Standard User msjw
(newbie) Tue 27-Apr-10 08:54:04
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Addnan] [link to this post]
 
Playing Modern Warfare 2 regularly I now don't notice any lagging at all. When compared to a 0.4Mbps Sky service, it really is incomparable. Previously, if anyone else in the house was using the Internet; messaging or whatever, you really couldn't play, but now you can throw anything at it and the gaming isn't affected at all.

I've found I'm more likely to host games based on MW2 matchmaking, but mostly only if there are British and European gamers in the party - very few games have ended because an existing host quit out - I would regularly take over as the host. Ping tests I've done have shown up excellent results - but there's still the necessary latency to get across the water to US gamers.

This shows the major benefit of FTTC to me - much more headroom to do more individual things at the same time. Only once did I actually see close to the maximum speeds on a single download - 4.5Mb/s - and iPlayer, XBox and PS3 downloads go very fast. But you're more likely see quick speeds spread across a number of services, rather than one service taking up the whole.

Standard User Robbo
(regular) Wed 28-Apr-10 06:55:25
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: IamQ] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by IamQ:
In reply to a post by Robbo:
Very nice congrats, looking forward to when they finally 'upgrade' our exchange.


Not the exchange - the cab...


Good point wink
Standard User edisnotcircle
(newbie) Wed 28-Apr-10 13:36:20
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Robbo] [link to this post]
 
msjw or anyone else! Could you give us some in game ping times for games like cod4 mw, quake, quake3, quake live, counter strike etc etc. To UK servers!. Thanks for putting that stuff about MW2 but let's see some ping times instead please!! smile
Standard User msjw
(newbie) Fri 30-Apr-10 16:28:02
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: edisnotcircle] [link to this post]
 
Sorry, I'm a lightweight PS3 MW2 player, not a hardcore COD4 MW PC player. So custom servers aren't my thing. I can trying pinging from my PC some UK COD4 servers if it helps, but I don't think that helps you, does it?

Standard User edisnotcircle
(newbie) Mon 03-May-10 18:46:01
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: msjw] [link to this post]
 
I just want to see some ping times on BT Infinity or any other FTTC provider for games like quake and counter-strike & cod4mw, eg games that have between 20 to 40ms give or take on standard ADSLx and Virgin Cable.
ISP Representative drefsab
(isp) Wed 12-May-10 10:48:45
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: edisnotcircle] [link to this post]
 
If you can wait until the 18th then I can give you some comparison stats. My FTTC line gets installed then.

Can then give you that vs my virgin 50mbit vs my ADSL LLU line.

Aaron Eldridge
ZeN Internet
Technical Support
ZeN are recruiting! Click here to view the opportunities available.
The opinions expressed here are that of my own and not that of ZeN Internet
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User RobertoS
(legend) Wed 12-May-10 13:59:59
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: drefsab] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by drefsab:
If you can wait until the 18th then I can give you some comparison stats. My FTTC line gets installed then.
Will that be BT Infinity, or Zen, or ANOther? If Zen, BT Wholesale based or LLU?

Bob's broadband basic info/help site:
www.robertos.me.uk
ISP history: Demon dialup >> Freeserve dialup >> BT Broadband >> Prodigynet >> Newnet >> O2 Standard.
Domains,web and mail hosting history: Purple Cloud >> Tsohost.
ISP Representative drefsab
(isp) Wed 12-May-10 19:21:35
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
This one will be a Zen line smile and it will be Wholesale based

Aaron Eldridge
ZeN Internet
Technical Support
ZeN are recruiting! Click here to view the opportunities available.
The opinions expressed here are that of my own and not that of ZeN Internet

Edited by drefsab (Wed 12-May-10 19:22:19)

The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Xee
(member) Thu 13-May-10 00:06:13
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: drefsab] [link to this post]
 
Would like to know how to access my line stats for BT Infinity. Been connected for a day now, and seem to be connected at 38Mb down, 9Mb up!! Was predicted 22/9. So well pleased so far. BT engineer was saying the training period was 24Hrs, is he wrong and it's actually 10 days?

BT cabinet is about ~60m away, and the BT engineer connected at the full 40000kbps/10000kpbs, as I saw it on his kit. Attenuation has also dropped from 50db on ADSL LLU (5Meg), to 7.1db. Wish I had taken note of all the stats he had available. Hence would like to access them myself.

So far really impressed smile

BT Infinity Unlimited 38Mb/9Mb
Line Attenuation 7.1db/6db

Edited by Xee (Thu 13-May-10 00:08:22)

Standard User andro
(newbie) Thu 13-May-10 01:06:01
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: edisnotcircle] [link to this post]
 
Me too. please.... smile
I am 1.3km from my exchange connected to o2 LLU, I am connected at 7mb Down / 1.2mb up.
I get 45 ms pings to UK servers in Quake World. and 50ms pings to Dutch servers...
Please can someone who plays games, give an indication as stated before about how low the ping is and any latency issues in game?? packet loss problems... etc?
Thanks...!
Forgot to say I have a Green cabinet 50m from my house smile)) problem is no dates on rollout for my exchange yet :frown even though i live in a town with 13,000 residents and i live in town centre area on one side of road, industrial estate, other side is secondary school and housein estate, so im very hopeful BT will announce something soon (fingers crossed)

Edited by andro (Thu 13-May-10 01:09:07)

Standard User Xee
(member) Thu 13-May-10 02:55:02
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: andro] [link to this post]
 
I would say pings are generally the same as I had before on ADSL LLU.

Ping to bbc.co.uk = 20ms (exactly the same as before)
Ping to dutch quake3 server xs4all = 28ms (from cmd promt, not played Q3 for about a year, and don't play any PC games any more - if u have anything u want me to test just ask).

BT Infinity Unlimited 38Mb/9Mb
Line Attenuation 7.1db/6db
Standard User Pgre
(experienced) Thu 13-May-10 08:46:29
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Xee] [link to this post]
 
Haven't yet seen any way to access the modem... thats the only way you will get them really.

Training period for me was within 24 hours.. in fact it went from about 28 to 37Mbps in about an hour.
Then stays at 37Mbps well has ever since.

I am hoping at some point someone will find a way of accessing the stats from the modem but right now I am still in honeymoon period having a connection so fast.

Regards PGre
Standard User Xee
(member) Thu 13-May-10 20:32:01
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Pgre] [link to this post]
 
Well I have been looking at the modem box for the HUAEWEI EchoLife HG612, which I kept. On the front it says:

Support VDSL2
2 Ethernet Ports
Advanced Management via HTTP,TR-069
Support Router Mode and Built-in Firewall

There is also a big white sticker about the Modem being upgraded with a long code. Now the advanced management bit is the interesting part. Has it been disabled with custom firmware etc? Anyone got any ideas?

BT Infinity Unlimited 38Mb/9Mb
Line Attenuation 7.1db/6db
Standard User Xee
(member) Fri 14-May-10 12:26:57
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Xee] [link to this post]
 
Hacking the BT Home Hub V2.0A
Would this be of any use? Anyone want to try it? Be aware that you may have a BT Home Hub v2.0B, which probably wont work using that method. It allows you to: "Now you can setup your non BT Username and password, ftp into the router and use telnet on 192.168.1.254"

Although interesting I think its the modem that holds the stats were looking for frown

On another note does anyone know if the BT Home Hub supports SNMP?

BT Infinity Unlimited 38Mb/9Mb
Line Attenuation 7.1db/6db

Edited by Xee (Fri 14-May-10 12:28:06)

Standard User Pgre
(experienced) Sat 15-May-10 18:24:22
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Xee] [link to this post]
 
Its the modem we need to access.. not the Hub.

Regards PGre
Standard User Ignitionnet
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 16-May-10 10:38:40
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: ggremlin] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ggremlin:
thanks

looks like the 'last mile' takes circa 8ms wink

edit:
8ms to cabinet, and <10 to exchange


Neither cabinet nor exchange will appear in the traceroute. Just as with normal BT Retail DSL the first hop you'll see after your router is a BRAS somewhere in the BT network.
RIPE Info

Edited by Ignitionnet (Sun 16-May-10 10:41:09)

Standard User Crisp89
(newbie) Sun 16-May-10 14:43:54
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Can some people post up some ping stats from pingtest.net
Standard User ggremlin
(regular) Sun 16-May-10 20:54:14
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
it was more correct before I editied it!
Standard User Adsl24
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 16-May-10 21:19:25
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: Crisp89] [link to this post]
 
Stats from pingtest.net are variable on any service and not an accurate respresentation of a connections performance. However, very useful as a guide.

Here's on on the fibre connection here -

http://www.pingtest.net/result/17015070.png

James
ADSL24 Broadband
http://adsl24.co.uk
ISP Representative drefsab
(isp) Wed 19-May-10 10:01:09
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: drefsab] [link to this post]
 
Ok my line is in, and working well, does anyone have any particular servers they want me to do ping testing on.

On the games I've tested average ping is about 15-20ms which is in line with my ADSL and virgin line.

The major plus so far has been the upload hosting a game server we had a much bigger and smother game than that hosted off the other connections.

Aaron Eldridge
ZeN Internet
Technical Support
ZeN are recruiting! Click here to view the opportunities available.
The opinions expressed here are that of my own and not that of ZeN Internet
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User edisnotcircle
(newbie) Wed 19-May-10 16:40:48
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: drefsab] [link to this post]
 
What game are you getting 12-20 in drefsab?
ISP Representative drefsab
(isp) Thu 20-May-10 11:06:54
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: edisnotcircle] [link to this post]
 
EVE Online, Call Of Duty and Team fortress 2. If you have a specific game/server you want me to try for you let me know smile

Aaron Eldridge
ZeN Internet
Technical Support
ZeN are recruiting! Click here to view the opportunities available.
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User edisnotcircle
(newbie) Mon 24-May-10 23:55:40
Print Post

Re: The BT FTTC line stats thread


[re: drefsab] [link to this post]
 
Drefsab thanks and i've seen a few people with 24 pings in quakelive at night. Let's hope as the rollout procedes that ping times start to come down!
Standard User asbokid
(newbie) Wed 22-Jun-11 23:34:23
Print Post

re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: Xee] [link to this post]
 
I have been messing about with the HG612 modem and the web interface can be re-enabled.

Here the line sync stats are available among much other information.

What firmware version is being shipped with recent Openreach/Huawei HG612 VDSL2 modems?

Ours also has a white label on the box which reads "The FTTC VDSL Modem in this carton has been upgraded to version HG612V100R001C01B027SP06".

It seems that the earlier firmware was HG612V100R001C01B027SP05. That firmware still had a web interface.

Has anyone gotten a newer firmware than ....SP06 which is dated 22 Feb 2010?

Screenshots from HG612 with web interface re-enabled:

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/57/87258193.jpg
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/8618/24542010.jpg
http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/1981/73932623.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9716/83462337.jpg
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5825/86742583.jpg

Edited by asbokid (Thu 23-Jun-11 02:29:15)

Standard User pug106
(member) Thu 23-Jun-11 08:00:17
Print Post

Re: re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
oh go on then, how do you re enable the web interface please smile
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 23-Jun-11 08:27:11
Print Post

Re: re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: pug106] [link to this post]
 
Interesting that it is on 192.168.1.1, not 192.168.11.1

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User DougM
(member) Thu 23-Jun-11 10:16:43
Print Post

Re: re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Also interesting that there is a second VLAN in-use on the WAN interface. We know that VLAN 101 needs to be enabled for PPPoE to connect, but I'd not come across VLAN 301 before.

A quick Google leads me to conclude this is used by BT for remote management/diagnostics of the modem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TR-069

-==-
DougM

Edited by DougM (Thu 23-Jun-11 10:18:31)

Standard User asbokid
(newbie) Thu 23-Jun-11 12:07:23
Print Post

Re: re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: pug106] [link to this post]
 
It's not really a practical solution since it involves some soldering. I dumped the entire 64Mbit of flash memory, poked around and re-enabled the web interface. In fact the web interface (and sshd and tftpd) are always running but these have been firewalled from the local user. Various CRCs need recalculating for the bootloader and then the firmware is re-flashed.
Standard User pug106
(member) Thu 23-Jun-11 12:24:17
Print Post

Re: re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by asbokid:
It's not really a practical solution since it involves some soldering. I dumped the entire 64Mbit of flash memory, poked around and re-enabled the web interface. In fact the web interface (and sshd and tftpd) are always running but these have been firewalled from the local user. Various CRCs need recalculating for the bootloader and then the firmware is re-flashed.


ah not exactly trivial then.

Hmmm I have a spare one at home, don't suppose you fancy doing it for me do you please smile
Standard User asbokid
(newbie) Thu 23-Jun-11 12:39:52
Print Post

Re: re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: pug106] [link to this post]
 
I am currently writing up what I've done. It's a shame that the BBU port on the front of the router cannot be used for non-invasive hacking. It's actually an RS232 port (see the MAX3221 feeding it) but it doesn't have any life to it. At the back of the HG612 mainboard is another UART (running at TTL levels) and there's a TAP for the proprietary EJTAG interface.

Edited by asbokid (Thu 23-Jun-11 12:41:12)

Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Thu 23-Jun-11 19:11:08
Print Post

Re: re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
It's a shame that the BBU port on the front of the router cannot be used for non-invasive hacking.

Had been lead to believe the BBU port was there to allow the unit to be powered via USB. Have you tried this ? I know the Celsian SDSL modem/routers I test with can be powered this way.

Standard User asbokid
(newbie) Thu 23-Jun-11 20:51:27
Print Post

Re: re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Wouldn't like to find out.. The pins in the BBU socket traces to a Maxim MAX3221C - an RS232 line driver.
.
Standard User lockyatlrg
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 26-Jun-11 11:25:43
Print Post

Re: re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: DougM] [link to this post]
 
Why BT blocked out this info I don't know, kinda strange not being able to see any stats,

BT Infinity
ROUTER:-HomeHub3
Sync 40000D 10000U
Standard User homer79
(newbie) Tue 28-Jun-11 06:17:39
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Re: re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
Thats really quite interesting. Did you do a dump on the eprom on the front of the device? I know its only got about 1k of storage, when i got a modem i was going to have a look.
Standard User asbokid
(newbie) Wed 29-Jun-11 02:21:53
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Re: re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: homer79] [link to this post]
 
Hi Homer.

I used a JTAG cable to dump the 8MByte flash image.[1][2]

But there are a couple of other methods that work too.

A dump of the entire flash image can be gotten through the serial console. The Huawei HG612 is Broadcom-based and uses the standard Broadcom bootloader called CFE. The CFE can be interrupted before it boots the kernel. The bootloader has a primitive command to dump memory. It does the dump in hex. The flash image can then be reconstructed as a binary using xxd -r (reverse hex dump) [3]

The third method of dumping only recovers a partial image. It also requires shell access to the device which kind of defeats the object. The flash is partitioned into mtdblocks. One mtdblock for the bootloader, one for the root file system, one for the kernel, etc. From a shell, you can 'cat /dev/mtdblockn > /tmp/flashdumpn' and that dumps the raw contents of an mtdblock to a regular file. Using netcat or similar, the file can then be transferred via a network socket to a PC.

As for the BBU socket on the front of the Huawei, it is an RS232 serial port (with no hardware flow control). It should be possible to get a second serial console on that port using getty. That would make it quite useful.

The physical properties of the BBU socket are curious though. I ain't seen nuffink like it. The closest standard of connector I can find is the Molex 2695 crimp housing series[4]. However the Huawei socket has a locking ramp and polarisation lobes that do not match those used in the 2695 series.

Anyone good with identifying connectors? "I can name that socket in three...."

CFE version 1.0.37-102.6 for BCM96368 (32bit,SP,BE)
Build Date: Mon Mar 2 15:45:35 CST 2009 ([email protected])
Copyright (C) 2000-2008 Broadcom Corporation.

Parallel flash device: name MX29LV640BT, id 0x22c9, size 8192KB
CPU type 0x2A031: 400MHz, Bus: 160MHz, Ref: 64MHz
CPU running TP0
Total memory: 33554432 bytes (32MB)
Boot Address 0xb8000000

Board IP address : 192.168.1.1:ffffff00
Host IP address : 192.168.1.100
Gateway IP address :
Run from flash/host (f/h) : f
Default host run file name : vmlinux
Default host flash file name : bcm963xx_fs_kernel
Boot delay (0-9 seconds) : 3
Boot image (0=latest, 1=previous) : 0
Board Id (0-4) : 96368MVWG
Number of MAC Addresses (1-32) : 11
Base MAC Address : 00:e0:fc:09:09:09
PSI Size (1-64) KBytes : 64
Main Thread Number [0|1] : 0

*** Press any key to stop auto run (3 seconds) ***
Auto run second count down: 2
CFE>
CFE> help
Available commands:

sm Set memory or registers.
dm Dump memory or registers.
w Write the whole image start from beginning of the flash
e Erase [n]vram or [a]ll flash except bootrom
r Run program from flash image or from host depend on [f/h] flag
p Print boot line and board parameter info
c Change booline parameters
f Write image to the flash
i Erase persistent storage data
b Change board parameters
reset Reset the board
flashimage Flashes a compressed image after the bootloader.
help Obtain help for CFE commands

For more information about a command, enter 'help command-name'
*** command status = 0
CFE>


[1] http://urjtag.org/
[2] http://www.altera.com/literature/ug/ug_usb_blstr.pdf
[3] http://linux.die.net/man/1/xxd
[4] http://www.molex.com/molex/products/datasheet.jsp?pa...

Edited by asbokid (Wed 29-Jun-11 02:22:24)

Standard User asbokid
(newbie) Sun 03-Jul-11 01:21:35
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Re: re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
A bit more info on the HG612, if anyone is still interested...

Below are excerpts from a hex dump of the HG612 flash memory. Full binary dumps are at the links below. The dump shows the beginning of the CFE bootloader image, the 256 byte bc310+ firmware 'tag' header in the Huawei, and, identifiably by its magic number ('qshs'), the beginning of the big-endian squashfs root file system on the router:

Text
1
23
45
67
89
1011
1213
1415
1617
1819
2021
2223
2425
2627
2829
3031
3233
3435
3637
3839
4041
4243
4445
4647
4849
5051
5253
5455
5657
5859
6061
6263
6465
6667
6869
7071
7273
7475
7677
7879
8081
8283
8485
8687
CFE version 1.0.37-102.6 for BCM96368 (32bit,SP,BE)
Build Date: Mon Mar  2 15:45:35 CST 2009 ([email protected])Copyright (C) 2000-2008 Broadcom Corporation.
 Parallel flash device: name MX29LV640BT, id 0x22c9, size 8192KB
CPU type 0x2A031: 400MHz, Bus: 160MHz, Ref: 64MHzCPU running TP0
Total memory: 33554432 bytes (32MB)Boot Address 0xb8000000
 Board IP address                  : 192.168.1.1:ffffff00  
Host IP address                   : 192.168.1.100  Gateway IP address                :   
Run from flash/host (f/h)         : f  Default host run file name        : vmlinux  
Default host flash file name      : bcm963xx_fs_kernel  Boot delay (0-9 seconds)          : 3  
Boot image (0=latest, 1=previous) : 0  Board Id (0-4)                    : 96368MVWG  
Number of MAC Addresses (1-32)    : 11  Base MAC Address                  : 00:e0:fc:09:09:09  
PSI Size (1-64) KBytes            : 64  Main Thread Number [0|1]          : 0  
 *** Press any key to stop auto run (3 seconds) ***
Auto run second count down: 2CFE> web info: Waiting for connection on socket 0.
CFE> CFE> help
Available commands: 
sm                  Set memory or registers.dm                  Dump memory or registers.
w                   Write the whole image start from beginning of the flashe                   Erase [n]vram or [a]ll flash except bootrom
r                   Run program from flash image or from host depend on [f/h] flagp                   Print boot line and board parameter info
c                   Change booline parametersf                   Write image to the flash 
i                   Erase persistent storage datab                   Change board parameters
reset               Reset the boardflashimage          Flashes a compressed image after the bootloader.
help                Obtain help for CFE commands 
For more information about a command, enter 'help command-name'*** command status = 0
CFE> dm b8000000 8388608b8000000: 10 00 02 7a 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00    ...z............
b8000010: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00    ................b8000020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00    ................
 <...>
 b8000560: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00    ................
b8000570: 63 66 65 2d 76 01 00 25 66 06 00 00 00 00 00 00    cfe-v..%f.......b8000580: 00 00 00 05 65 3d 31 39 32 2e 31 36 38 2e 31 2e    ....e=192.168.1.
b8000590: 31 3a 66 66 66 66 66 66 30 30 20 68 3d 31 39 32    1:ffffff00 h=192b80005a0: 2e 31 36 38 2e 31 2e 31 30 30 20 67 3d 20 72 3d    .168.1.100 g= r=
b80005b0: 66 20 66 3d 76 6d 6c 69 6e 75 78 20 69 3d 62 63    f f=vmlinux i=bcb80005c0: 6d 39 36 33 78 78 5f 66 73 5f 6b 65 72 6e 65 6c    m963xx_fs_kernel
b80005d0: 20 64 3d 33 20 70 3d 30 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00     d=3 p=0 .......b80005e0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00    ................
b80005f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00    ................ 
<....> 
b8010000: 37 00 00 00 42 72 6f 61 64 63 6f 6d 20 43 6f 72    7...Broadcom Corb8010010: 70 6f 72 61 74 69 6f 00 76 65 72 2e 20 32 2e 30    poratio.ver. 2.0
b8010020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 36 33 36 38 00 00 39 36 33 36    ......6368..9636b8010030: 38 4d 56 57 47 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 31 00 33 35    8MVWG.......1.35
b8010040: 33 31 33 34 35 00 00 00 33 32 31 37 30 33 31 31    31345...32170311b8010050: 36 38 00 00 35 38 32 30 30 00 00 00 00 00 33 32    68..58200.....32
b8010060: 31 37 30 39 36 39 36 30 00 00 32 36 37 38 37 38    17096960..267878b8010070: 34 00 00 00 33 32 31 39 37 37 35 37 34 34 00 00    4...3219775744..
b8010080: 37 39 34 33 36 31 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 45 63    794361........Ecb8010090: 68 6f 4c 69 66 65 5f 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00    hoLife_.........
b80100a0: 00 00 56 31 30 30 52 30 30 31 43 30 31 42 30 32    ..V100R001C01B02b80100b0: 37 53 50 30 35 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00    7SP05...........
b80100c0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00    ................b80100d0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 dc 44 9c 8e d6 34 da d6    .........D...4..
b80100e0: bf 02 72 a9 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 46 5f e8 7c    ..r.........F_.|b80100f0: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00    ................
b8010100: 71 73 68 73 00 00 01 4f 00 66 ff d4 b7 ff f6 d4    qshs...O.f......b8010110: 00 aa 95 3e bf e4 c9 48 00 66 28 22 00 03 00 00    ...>...H.f("....
b8010120: c9 04 00 10 c0 01 00 4b 45 46 13 00 00 00 00 08    .......KEF......b8010130: c2 05 b4 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 1e ff f7 b8 00 00    ................


What is interesting from those hex dumps is that the CFE in the Huawei (and probably the closely related BCM6368-based Alcatel V1000H as well) has support for multiple firmware images in the same flash.

This means that when the firmware is updated, presumably via tftpd, the old firmware image is backed-up by moving it to a higher area of flash memory.

In theory, the multi-image CFE should allow experimental kernels to be flashed without risk of bricking the device. If there are any serious problems, the original firmware image can always be rolled-back by changing the bootloader pointers (in the 256 byte 'tag' header).

In France, there is a very successful Open Source project called OpenBox that targets a Broadcom-6348 based modem/router called the NeufBox. The developers have built a toolset for hacking the device. They have gotten a working x86 build of unsquashfs. Their version of that tool is compatible with the (obsolete) version of mksquashfs that was used to create the rootfs in the Broadcom firmware images. The tool is unsquashfs 3.2r2 with an early patch for lzma compression. [1]

The squashfs tools that are shipped with modern x86 linux distros are not backwardly compatible with the (big-endian) squashfs that is used in these bcm6368 devices.

Other tools in the OpenBox project can do the donkey work of splitting the firmware image into individual components (i.e. the cfe, hdr, rootfs and kernel). After a small amount of patching, those tools will also work for the bcm6368 firmware images.

With a functional unsquashfs tool the rootfs can be extracted, modified and re-built with mksquashfs. The original kernel image can be extracted as a hex dump from the CFE shell, and re-used.

By combining a new rootfs image with the original kernel, a firmware image can be built with correct CRCs using the bcmImageBuilder from Broadcom's hostTools suite. That's what I've done with the Huawei. [2]

After a good poke around in the sourcecode of busybox in the GPL tarball from the Alcatel GPL code, I discovered that all the code is there to flash a new firmware image by uploading it via the tftpd daemon.[3][4]


[1] http://svn.gna.org/svn/openbox4/trunk/tools/
[2] https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B6wW18mYskvBNDFlMzc...
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B6wW18mYskvBZWYzYzJ...
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B6wW18mYskvBODg2YjY...
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B6wW18mYskvBYjE2ODl...
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B6wW18mYskvBNjcxNDM...
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B6wW18mYskvBYTA2NjE...
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B6wW18mYskvBMzQzYTA...
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B6wW18mYskvBZDVjYjk...
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B6wW18mYskvBYmIwY2Y...
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B6wW18mYskvBYzJiY2Q...
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B6wW18mYskvBMWQ3ZTI...
[3] http://opensource.actiontec.com/
[4] see ~/userspace/public/libs/cms_util and the cmsImg_writeImage() call in tftpd.c of the busybox source

Edited by asbokid (Sun 03-Jul-11 10:37:33)

Standard User Hunter59
(newbie) Fri 12-Aug-11 09:57:40
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Re: re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: asbokid] [link to this post]
 
Hello asbokid,

Interesting stuff. I have two of these boxes spare with firmware labeled SP10.
I have got a pin header on the boards but am not having any luck yet at getting data out. Both boards are "stuck at 1" on the data line. Did your interface work straight away?
Standard User asbokid
(newbie) Sat 13-Aug-11 23:00:10
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Re: re-enabling web interface on HG612


[re: Hunter59] [link to this post]
 
Hi Hunter.

This is the JTAG interface rather than the UART? "TDO is stuck on 1" ? I can't work that out. JTAG has been disabled on the board, but I can't see where. I hoped it would be through the removal of SMD components when the boards reached production. However, even with the most obvious missing links re-instated (two on the top side and at least two on the bottom side), JTAG still doesn't work. The error message from the JTAG software "TDO stuck on 1" did at least disappear once I had soldered those links, but still no JTAG interface was detected.

The processor on this board is the Broadcom 6368. The leaked pinout for the earlier Broadcom 6348 shows a JTAGSEL pin which I believe has to be pulled low to enable JTAG. I had hoped that one of those bridged links on the Huawei board would be JTAGSEL, but not so. What's weird is that when I scoped TDO, there is definitely a signal, but it was meaningless. TDO also seemed to 'float' to ~2.0v which is over the threshold to trigger the error "TDO is stuck on 1". Maybe Huawei has actually fitted additional components to the board to disable JTAG?

That said, the UART port works fine. I've fitted header pins to four boards now, and all have serial console access (and web access). Two are running the SP06 firmware and two are running SP10. I guess you discovered that the GND on the top row of solder pads is not drilled through which can be a pain.

As for interfacing the UART with a PC with no RS232 port, I used a clone Nokia DKU-5 cable. These cables are only GBP2 on ebay and have an integral PL2303 (USB-serial bridge controller). The serial side of the controller is driven at TTL levels (0v and 3.3v) rather than RS232 levels, so the cable is okay for the Huawei board.

There is a bit more rambling on a blog I started about this.. http://huaweihg612hacking.wordpress.com/

Cheers!

Edited by asbokid (Sat 13-Aug-11 23:25:03)

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