General Discussion
  >> BTwholesale DSL Implementation


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | >> (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User ib1703
(newbie) Tue 18-Oct-11 00:27:02
Print Post

Line Checker


[link to this post]
 
When running the line checker on BT Wholesale it states for a given phone number (a friends who is supposed to be in a FTTC enabled area) :

"Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a fibre technology with an estimated WBC FTTC broadband where consumers have received downstream line speeds of 7mbps and upstream line speeds of 2.9 mbps".

What is that all about when one would expect 40mbps!
Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 18-Oct-11 00:30:59
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: ib1703] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ib1703:
What is that all about when one would expect 40mbps!


Up to 40Mb..

Matt

-
uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
Standard User ib1703
(newbie) Tue 18-Oct-11 00:46:35
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
OK...yes... up to. I was more querying the 7mbps when (although it's up to 40mbps) you would expect greater than 15mbps otherwise why bother with fibre.

What's the message telling the user/customer?

Ian


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 18-Oct-11 00:52:23
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: ib1703] [link to this post]
 
Fibre isn't a guaranteed solution for all - some will still be far away from their cab.

I would say that is all relative to what the user can get. If they're only able to get the minimum using standard ADSL service, 7Mb might be well received.

Another thing to note is that the BT check appears to underestimate the possible speed.

Matt

-
uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 18-Oct-11 01:53:58
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
What speed does the person get from ADSL now?

if its say 0.5Mbps, then 7Mbps is a big step up

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User adslmax
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 18-Oct-11 12:42:58
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by uno:
Up to 40Mb..
Matt


"Up to" should be banned and scrapped Matt, a shocking 7 Meg from fibre optic, it a big joke really, 7 Meg is designed for ADSLMAX (up to 8 Meg) over copper wire and distance away from exchange but 7 Meg is unaccepted for Fibre.

"Up to" and "Fibre" should not be advertising if the line not getting 40 Meg as 7 Meg isn't Fibre at all ! Anything over 25 Meg will class it as FTTC otherwise would class as ADSLMAX / ADSL2+ if the true speed is less than 24 Meg/8 Meg depend on BT 20CN or 21CN.

plusnetADSL2+14 Meg

Edited by adslmax (Tue 18-Oct-11 12:50:02)

Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 18-Oct-11 12:45:35
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Some would disagree.

Matt

-
uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
Official Maidenhead, Milton Keynes & Manchester Speedtest.net Host
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 18-Oct-11 12:54:20
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
This must rank as the worst load of rubbish I have read today.

The 7Meg is an estimate, and as many have shown these are invariably pessimistic, as a reaction to people complaining about over estimates in the past.

Perhaps everyone who cannot get below 25Mbps on FTTC products should be banned from them, lets ignore the potential improvement that it may be for those getting 0.5 Meg now who might jump to 7/10/15/20 for example.

If up to is banned, what is it replaced with? An engineer visiting your home to carry out indepedent line tests?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User adslmax
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 18-Oct-11 13:14:37
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Let me explain...when I was on ADSLMAX up to 8Meg, BTW estimated my line will do 5.5Meg and my isp say up to 8Meg on my line and when it was activated I only get 6.5Meg because of BTW limit the line profile @ 7.15Meg. Now, BTW say my ADSL2+ up to 24 Meg an estimated of just 7Meg and my line getting 15.17Meg (should be estimated 15Meg not 7Meg nor up to 24Meg either.

plusnetADSL2+15 Meg

Edited by adslmax (Tue 18-Oct-11 13:15:43)

Standard User ionic
(experienced) Tue 18-Oct-11 13:15:08
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
Could you make less sense?

Perhaps someone from TBB can change your tagline from "fountain of knowledge" to "mudpool of misuinderstanding"
Standard User sobranie
(experienced) Tue 18-Oct-11 13:23:18
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: ionic] [link to this post]
 
adslmax.....
Have you considered a job with BT??
Standard User ib1703
(newbie) Tue 18-Oct-11 14:02:33
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Around 2-2.2mb rarely 3mb is achieved today. He has option to go for Virgin Media. I think I would recommend that rather than the 7mbps (on FTTC) being offered by BT.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 18-Oct-11 14:10:50
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: ib1703] [link to this post]
 
Issue here is that the Openreach checker often under estimates, and it may be 15 to 20Meg that they actually get, or maybe even more.

If they can figure out where their local cabinet is, then you can get a good idea http://www.buckconsult.co.uk/fttx/BT8cProfilesVDSL2.jpg shows what you could expect. The line to look at is the 8c one.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User rnewfie
(member) Tue 18-Oct-11 16:13:18
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: ib1703] [link to this post]
 
I think we have all got used to the 'Up to 8meg' quotes and know that for most, you will be lucky to get 5 or 6.

It is no different for FTTC (Fibre To The Cabinet) - the operative part being 'the Cabinet'. If you have a cabinet right outside your house and you have a REALLY good bit of cable between you and the cabinet, AND your internal wiring is perfect, then you may get something approaching maybe, 35meg!

If it were Fibre To The Consumer, then that would be different.
Standard User adslmax
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 18-Oct-11 16:17:19
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: ib1703] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ib1703:
Around 2-2.2mb rarely 3mb is achieved today. He has option to go for Virgin Media. I think I would recommend that rather than the 7mbps (on FTTC) being offered by BT.


Virgin Media isn't fibre optic at all and overpricing too.

plusnetADSL2+15 Meg
Standard User adslmax
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 18-Oct-11 16:17:51
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: sobranie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by sobranie:
adslmax.....
Have you considered a job with BT??


If BT offer me that job, I take it!

plusnetADSL2+15 Meg
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 18-Oct-11 16:21:05
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
And the problem is?

Estimate is an estimate and thus can be wrong. Depends on what data it was based on.

Which is better to get the estimate high or get it low? If you want it spot on, willing to pay someone to test it for you?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User adslmax
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 18-Oct-11 16:24:05
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yeah true as I almost forget that Virgin Media does have "UP TO" 10, 30, 50 and 100 Meg

plusnetADSL2+15 Meg
Standard User kasg
(committed) Tue 18-Oct-11 18:21:03
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: rnewfie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by rnewfie:
It is no different for FTTC (Fibre To The Cabinet) - the operative part being 'the Cabinet'. If you have a cabinet right outside your house and you have a REALLY good bit of cable between you and the cabinet, AND your internal wiring is perfect, then you may get something approaching maybe, 35meg!
I think you'll find it's rather better than that - actual speeds of around 37 Mb/s are perfectly possible with cabinets nearly half a mile away.

Kevin

plusnet Value Fibre
Using OpenDNS
Standard User geordiekris
(experienced) Tue 18-Oct-11 18:52:36
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
however the question has to be asked what speed is he currently getting as a 7 meg connection could be miles better than they allready have. Personally i would kill for it

i can say whatever i want as i no longer work for the [censored]!
Standard User Suspishio
(newbie) Wed 19-Oct-11 21:29:25
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by adslmax:
In reply to a post by ib1703:
Around 2-2.2mb rarely 3mb is achieved today. He has option to go for Virgin Media. I think I would recommend that rather than the 7mbps (on FTTC) being offered by BT.


Virgin Media isn't fibre optic at all and overpricing too.


What a strange comment. Virgin Media and BT go head to head on the basis of both being fibre optic albeit with metal sections up to the local fibre optic node.

Suspishio

VM 50 Meg (running at 48 meg)
BT Infinity (running @ 38 meg)

My advice is at your risk.
Standard User Suspishio
(newbie) Wed 19-Oct-11 21:39:19
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Issue here is that the Openreach checker often under estimates, and it may be 15 to 20Meg that they actually get, or maybe even more.

If they can figure out where their local cabinet is, then you can get a good idea http://www.buckconsult.co.uk/fttx/BT8cProfilesVDSL2.jpg shows what you could expect. The line to look at is the 8c one.


I'm somewhat frustrated by the graph. It seems to show that at 5000 feet wire distance, the speed falls to c. 35 Mbps. Is that really the case for the current VDSL profile?

Indeed, AFAIK, 5000 feet is the threshold where BT say that the uplift from ADSL will radically (and disappointingly) degrade. The graph stopped short at the key point.

Suspishio

VM 50 Meg (running at 48 meg)
BT Infinity (running @ 38 meg)

My advice is at your risk.
Standard User acpsd775
(committed) Wed 19-Oct-11 21:43:04
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by adslmax:
In reply to a post by ib1703:
Around 2-2.2mb rarely 3mb is achieved today. He has option to go for Virgin Media. I think I would recommend that rather than the 7mbps (on FTTC) being offered by BT.


Virgin Media isn't fibre optic at all and overpricing too.


Virgin media is a FTTC just like BT infinity the diff been they use coax from cab to you which handles speed way better than bts [censored] phone lines, Plus how is it over priced its 25 quid for 50meg which more often that not proformas at 50meg i had it for 2 year never ever droped below 45meg BTs is 25 quid for upto 40 weather you get 40 or not, Im now on 100meg and it never drops below 95meg except on slower servers but that's hardly virgins fault i also don't consider 35 quid to be over priced either.

Ash

Virgin Media + Sky
-------------------------------------------------------------
2004: Blueyonder 256k/512k => 2006: Blueyonder 2Meg => 2009 Virgin Media 10Meg => 2009/10 Virgin Media 50Meg => 21/04/2011 sky Unlimited 11167 kbps D / 910kbps U 30/9/11 Virgin Media 100Meg

PSN: ACPSD775 add me if you like

[IMG]http://www.speedtest.net/result/1544411348.png[/IMG]
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 19-Oct-11 21:54:45
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: Suspishio] [link to this post]
 
5000 feet from the cabinet

ADSL is measured from the exchange, i.e. a lot further away

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Suspishio
(newbie) Wed 19-Oct-11 22:23:26
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
5000 feet from the cabinet

ADSL is measured from the exchange, i.e. a lot further away


W|e're not talking about ADSL in the context of the graph link. We're talking about FTTC.

Or have I misunderstood you? My point is that BT regard 5000 feet as the point where at the higher frequencies of VDSL, signal falls off steeply, so steeply as to make it unwise for themn to offer Infinity. The graph link didn't show what happens beyond 5000 feet and in any case I don't believe at current frequency that Infinity would deliver 35 meg at 1 mile wire distance.

Suspishio

VM 50 Meg (running at 48 meg)
BT Infinity (running @ 38 meg)

My advice is at your risk.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 19-Oct-11 22:27:37
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: Suspishio] [link to this post]
 
VDSL2 degrades so that it will run even out to 6000m but at that sort of distance only speeds of around 1 to 2Mbps are possible (18000 feet)

There is no cut out at 15Mbps for FTTC, that is an Infinity (only BT Retail) marketing thing, they will provide a fibre service just not call it Infinity.

Other providers will provide it no matter what.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User mr_bean
(member) Wed 19-Oct-11 23:28:38
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
If they can figure out where their local cabinet is, then you can get a good idea http://www.buckconsult.co.uk/fttx/BT8cProfilesVDSL2.jpg shows what you could expect. The line to look at is the 8c one.
I think that graph is slightly optimistic as

a) it doesn't take into account crosstalk
and
b) it assumes the full 8.5Mhz bandwidth whereas OR's FTTC on 8c is actually limited to just over 7mhz - the difference could be over 15Mbps (although on lines long enough for it to matter probably a bit less).

WWWombat posted a link somewhere to a document containing graphs which took account of crosstalk.
Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(newbie) Thu 20-Oct-11 11:26:10
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: mr_bean] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by mr_bean:
If they can figure out where their local cabinet is, then you can get a good idea http://www.buckconsult.co.uk/fttx/BT8cProfilesVDSL2.jpg shows what you could expect. The line to look at is the 8c one.
I think that graph is slightly optimistic as

a) it doesn't take into account crosstalk
and
b) it assumes the full 8.5Mhz bandwidth whereas OR's FTTC on 8c is actually limited to just over 7mhz - the difference could be over 15Mbps (although on lines long enough for it to matter probably a bit less).

WWWombat posted a link somewhere to a document containing graphs which took account of crosstalk.


The graph also appears to start at 90Mb.

As BT's FTTC starts at 40Mb, the speeds achievable at 5000ft (1524m) would surely be much less than 35Mb.

I achieved 32/33Mb when FTTC was first installed on my 800m or so connection from the cabinet, against an estimated 14.6Mb.

After around a month, my speeds had dropped to below 15Mb (following a line fault that left me with no phone or broadband for 4 days).

Following many engineer visits, speed is currently hovering around 20Mb & my ISP tell me that as it is still exceeding my original estimate, they cannot report any faults to BT, despite a continued loss of 12-13Mb or so.

FWIW, having access to an unlocked modem & graphing tools, I see that some days I get absolutely F.A. from the higher frequency VDSL2 downstream D2 band, any downstream being delivered only via the lower frequency ADSL2+ downstream D1 band.


Recent Stats


Paul.

Edited by Bald_Eagle1 (Thu 20-Oct-11 11:44:05)

Standard User ib1703
(newbie) Fri 21-Oct-11 20:33:53
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: Bald_Eagle1] [link to this post]
 
Excuse me if I am being thick here but is VDSL2 what BT are deploying everywhere or are most VDSL and now some exchanges are being upgraded to VDSL2?
Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(newbie) Fri 21-Oct-11 21:34:46
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: ib1703] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ib1703:
Excuse me if I am being thick here but is VDSL2 what BT are deploying everywhere or are most VDSL and now some exchanges are being upgraded to VDSL2?


BT's FTTC already uses VDSL2, profile 8c.
It will still be VDSL2, but using profile 17a (higher frequency, with more bits available to provide higher speeds).

Paul.
Standard User ib1703
(newbie) Fri 21-Oct-11 21:44:20
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: Bald_Eagle1] [link to this post]
 
So if you a user is on 8c how do they get 17a?
Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(newbie) Fri 21-Oct-11 22:24:39
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: ib1703] [link to this post]
 
I think BT are gradually making the switch to all FTTC cabinets.

A few users have commented that they just noticed it had happened overnight.

I am still on the 8c profile & my ISP (not BT) aren't sure when/if they will be switching to 17a, although I would have thought they wouldn't really have the choice as BT provides the infrastructure & technology
Standard User orly
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 22-Oct-11 00:14:37
Print Post

Re: Line Checker


[re: kasg] [link to this post]
 
Our cabinet is less than half a mile away and it took the "upgrade" to the 17a profile to get us 29Mbit.

---
> Comparison chart of FTTC ISPs
> Got FTTC? Complete the survey

BT Infinity 8th July 2010
(NIBA)
600m (approx) to cabinet
29.5Mbit down / 5.5Mbit up
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | >> (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to