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Standard User Cyberoonie
(newbie) Fri 28-Oct-11 16:36:39
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Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[link to this post]
 
Hey all

I had Infinity installed on Tuesday which was predicted at 27 meg, however actually synced at 16 meg. BT raised a fault (after a lot of kicking a screaming) and had an unexpected visitor from an Openreach engineer today.

He found that there is 250m of overhead wiring that has stretched and rubbed on tree branches which is causing most of the issues. The problem he has said is that it is over water (a lake) and in trees (that need branches removing).

What are the timescales in getting things like this repaired? He has reported the problem, ordered the cabling work to be carried out, however the OR engineer said that it is all contract work these days Ė that doesn't sound too quick to me!

Another issue he found was an electric fence running underneath the wiring for around 100m and found a large amount of interference. The farmer isnít keen to move the fence away from the line, yet it affects more than just my property. Is there any route to getting this resolved if the farmer refuses to move the fencing?

Many thanks smile

Edited by Cyberoonie (Fri 28-Oct-11 16:38:47)

Standard User tommy45
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 28-Oct-11 17:11:06
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Cyberoonie] [link to this post]
 
Bt could re- route the cable but i doubt that they would, but certainly the more people that are affected by this sort of thing the grater chances of it getting resolved 10 voices are louder than 1
But if farmer Giles don't want to move the fence there isn't much from a legal perspective that bt could do apart from request that he move the fence, I have been at the mercy of a similar situation but because the isp couldn't see any line fault they where not prepared to call out bt , (which i could partly understand as there was no actual fault with the line its self) bt line plant could be better protected than it currently is

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1109135337.png
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1088567519.png
http://www.pingtest.net/result/29483331.png
Results from http://www.speed.io
(Copied on 2011-09-18 22:29:00)
Download: 14772 Kbit/s
Upload : 1676 kbit/s
Connects : 2808 conn/min
Ping: 11 ms
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Fri 28-Oct-11 18:05:40
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Cyberoonie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Cyberoonie:
What are the timescales in getting things like this repaired?
BT carry out numerous searches to see who owns the trees so that they can ask them to be removed or arrange it themselves to bill them.

In my experience this had been a *joke* and I've waited 3 months or so for anything to be done - so all I can say is don't hold your breath!

The good news is you have a decent connection regardless smile


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Standard User ionic
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 28-Oct-11 21:34:58
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: tommy45] [link to this post]
 
If the electric fence is causing electrical interference above and beyond levels permitted by regulations then can't the farmer be compelled to recitfy (no pun intended) it?
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Fri 28-Oct-11 21:37:31
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: ionic] [link to this post]
 
I'd call ofcom.

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Standard User tommy45
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 28-Oct-11 22:20:01
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: ionic] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ionic:
If the electric fence is causing electrical interference above and beyond levels permitted by regulations then can't the farmer be compelled to recitfy (no pun intended) it?
Maybe if it could be proven,but it wouldn't be down to bt to do this ,they don't get involved ,it would be down to ofcom to do something about it, but if the fence isn't causing problems to broadcast tv & radio in the area then i doubt that they would be interested as they IMO are useless really

My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1109135337.png
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1088567519.png
http://www.pingtest.net/result/29483331.png
Results from http://www.speed.io
(Copied on 2011-09-18 22:29:00)
Download: 14772 Kbit/s
Upload : 1676 kbit/s
Connects : 2808 conn/min
Ping: 11 ms
Standard User kasg
(committed) Sat 29-Oct-11 11:26:32
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PiKe:
I'd call ofcom.
I don't think you can just "call Ofcom" about something like this, you have to fill in complex forms demonstrating interference over an extended period.

Kevin

plusnet Value Fibre
Using OpenDNS
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 29-Oct-11 11:37:30
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Cyberoonie] [link to this post]
 
According to this, the fence itself should not be causing interference, just a possible problem with the installation. Maybe a friendly chat with the farmer? And/or a visual check on the relevant stretch.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User Cyberoonie
(newbie) Sat 29-Oct-11 11:44:10
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
The trees are actually 'owned' by a fishing lake so that shouldn't be too hard to find out.

In terms of actually having them looked at and cut/removed accordingly - will the fishing lake owners have to fork up the bill? I could imagine that then could cause a legal battle if they refuse to do so?

Also, who is my point of contact now in order to chase these things up? Obviously I have no direct contact with OR, but I could imagine BT retail not having a script to read from with regards to line replacement issues being dealt with by OR.

Edited by Cyberoonie (Sat 29-Oct-11 11:47:16)

Standard User Cyberoonie
(newbie) Sat 29-Oct-11 11:46:04
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: kasg] [link to this post]
 
I think the initial plan will be to see how stable the connection is once the lines have been repaired. If we are still getting problems with interference with the fence then I'll look into that route earlier.

It may only be causing a minor issue, which if is the case, won't be worth pursuing.
Standard User Ribble
(member) Sat 29-Oct-11 12:34:04
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Cyberoonie] [link to this post]
 
The fault report that your service provider raised should still be open if there is outstanding work to be undertaken, so they should be able to get updates on it for you.
ISP Representative BT_Care
(isp) Sat 29-Oct-11 13:11:28
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Re:Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Cyberoonie] [link to this post]
 
Hi Cyberoonie,

Keep us posted with this

If you need any updates from the fault report you can contact us directly by using this web form: http://bt.custhelp.com/app/contact_email/c/4950

Thanks,

Stephanie
The above post has been made by an ISP REPRESENTATIVE (although not necessarily the ISP being discussed in the post).
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sat 29-Oct-11 18:51:30
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
According to this, the fence itself should not be causing interference,

That's as may be Bob, but I have seen plenty which were causing problems.

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sat 29-Oct-11 20:10:57
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
According to this, the fence itself should not be causing interference,

That's as may be Bob, but I have seen plenty which were causing problems.
smile
I did say "should", not "will", and recommended checking it visually for the easily corrected issues such as vegetation smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User Cyberoonie
(newbie) Fri 04-Nov-11 12:40:37
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Re:Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: BT_Care] [link to this post]
 
Well, to my surprise yesterday BT turned up and rewired 250m of cable as suggested through the trees and over the water.

Today they are down there cutting tree branches down as needed.. all looking good.

However (why does there always have to be one?), looking at my stats at the moment my attainable rate still hasn't changed and is still bobbing around between 16500 - 18800. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would have thought once the new wire was reconnected the attainable rate should have increased regardless of the IP profile / line rate?

Am I missing something obvious with regards to the attainable rate, or has it turned out the wire wasn't the problem after all?
Standard User Cyberoonie
(newbie) Fri 04-Nov-11 12:56:18
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Cyberoonie] [link to this post]
 
Just an update (can't edit the last post due to time limit).

I have just tested another download (Ubuntu to be specific that originally was currupt after each attempt) and that has worked fine.

My stats on the modem at the moment after being up for 2 hours and downloading around 1gb are:

Line rate: 14999 kbit/s (2358 up)
CRC: 0
FEC: 0
HEC: 37

That is compared to the thousands of FEC and HEC errors I used to have, as well as a few hundred CRC errors.

Semi positive news so far - just no sign of a speed increase.

Edited by Cyberoonie (Fri 04-Nov-11 12:57:09)

Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(newbie) Fri 04-Nov-11 14:56:33
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Cyberoonie] [link to this post]
 
Hi Cyberoonie,

The Line Rate of 14999 looks suspiciously like it may be BT's default minimum sync rate.

I had a few problems with my connection & it ended up stuck there a few times.

If a "suitable" time lapse or a modem reboot doesn't improve speeds, you may wish to contact BT / your ISP to look at your connection.

A problem with too many modem reboots is that DLM apparently quickly believes you have a dodgy connection & will auto-restrict speeds to maintain stability, until a profile reset is carried out.
Profile resets usually require an engineer to be on site at the time.

Paul.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 04-Nov-11 15:00:17
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Re:Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Cyberoonie] [link to this post]
 
Maybe the trees were not affecting things...or the wire made no difference. Without seeing stats hard to say

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Fri 04-Nov-11 22:20:11
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Bald_Eagle1] [link to this post]
 
The Line Rate of 14999 looks suspiciously like it may be BT's default minimum sync rate.

I think that's incorrect.

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 04-Nov-11 23:04:08
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Cyberoonie] [link to this post]
 
Not relevant to the problem, but?
In reply to a post by Cyberoonie:
Just an update (can't edit the last post due to time limit)..
The time limit is 12 hours. To me your time difference looks like about 16 minutes. Did you misread the Help as saying 12 minutes?

Better as an additional post anyway. Substantive edits are not a good idea, as even in such a short time many of the people trying to help you could have read it, and may not re-read.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Fri 04-Nov-11 23:45:33
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
The Line Rate of 14999 looks suspiciously like it may be BT's default minimum sync rate.

I think that's incorrect.
Are you able to offer any other supporting facts to go with that statement, please?

-----------------------------------------------------

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Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(learned) Sat 05-Nov-11 08:25:07
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
The Line Rate of 14999 looks suspiciously like it may be BT's default minimum sync rate.

I think that's incorrect.


Hi Zarjaz,

Would you be able to clarify this a little for us?

Following many connection issues (disconnections, crackly phone line etc.), my FTTC sync rate appeared to be stuck at 14999 k following the repair works.

My ISP told me something like it was the minimum sync rate that BT can set following a period of instability.
They may have said default, rather than minimum - I can't quite recall the exact phrase.

Anyway, it required an engineer's home visit to run a couple of tests & then he phoned BT to reset the profile remotely, while he monitored the result of the reset.

The reset immediately caused the modem to re-sync at around 24Mb or 25Mb.

I have also read other users' forum posts whose connections also appeared to have "stuck" at a 14.999 k sync rate, requiring the same sort of engineer's intervention to reset it.

Paul.
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sun 06-Nov-11 11:00:50
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Bald_Eagle1] [link to this post]
 
I said 'I think', as it would be strange that I hadn't come across this 14999 sync rate myself ( I do dabble a bit with this sort of thing). Were your ISP basing this on the 15 meg or above that is the default product ?

The engineers phone call is no magic, they just ring the FTTC SMC repair team and ask for the sync rate to be reset/recalculated. I suspect that the line would regain it's full speed it's self, if left to it's own devices, if and when the original fault has been cleared. Te phone call just speeds things up.

Standard User Cyberoonie
(newbie) Sun 06-Nov-11 19:41:13
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Bald_Eagle1] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Bald_Eagle1:
Following many connection issues (disconnections, crackly phone line etc.), my FTTC sync rate appeared to be stuck at 14999 k following the repair works.

The reset immediately caused the modem to re-sync at around 24Mb or 25Mb.


Did you happen to notice any different in the attainable rate when you had this problem or did that remain the same throughout?

I was meant to receive a phone call today with regards to the issue - nothing as of yet but they did ring at 9pm last time.

In terms of current stats they are:

Uptime: 202822
Attainable Rate: 16564 / 3260
SNR: 2.9 / 7.3
Output Power: 8.8 / 1.1

Line Rate: 14999 / 2538
CRC Errors: 56571 / 0
FEC Errors: 1004 / 2
HEC Errors: 15700 / 0

No signs of any increased speed or error reduction - well at least not according to the modem.
Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(learned) Mon 07-Nov-11 08:47:40
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Zarjaz:
I said 'I think', as it would be strange that I hadn't come across this 14999 sync rate myself ( I do dabble a bit with this sort of thing). Were your ISP basing this on the 15 meg or above that is the default product ?

The engineers phone call is no magic, they just ring the FTTC SMC repair team and ask for the sync rate to be reset/recalculated. I suspect that the line would regain it's full speed it's self, if left to it's own devices, if and when the original fault has been cleared. Te phone call just speeds things up.


Hi Zarjaz,

TBH, I'm not sure what they based it on.

One problem with FTTC technology is that it is still new enough, that not many (If any) fully understand it yet. So the information filtering back to end users is rather vague, with a lot of it probably based on assumptions & comparisons to known ADSL technology rather than fact.

This is not at all helped by the BT modem being locked down (as installed) & many/most users can't even see their connection stats.

At the time my sync speed was stuck at 14999 K, I had no access to my own stats & had to just rely on the BT Performace/Speed tester, along with rather limited ISP reports to find my stats etc.

I was told to wait for 10 days or so at a time to allow DLM to settle, which made no difference.
It appears to be reasonably common for DLM, or BT's database, or something else to cause stuck profiles / sync rates that can only be "unstuck" via an engineer's visit.

Maybe when/if FTTC becomes a self-install process, end users/ISPs will be able to request profile resets directly (or maybe ISPs will be given access to reset it directly).

In my case, my original 30+ Mb actual downloads speeds (for a full month) have never returned (sync speed must have been up to 35Mb back then).
Even with the slight improvement following the profile switch to 17a, the best I have achieved for a few months is 24Mb actual downloads. They are usually around 20Mb to 22Mb.

I am not 100% convinced that my line's "faults" were ever fully fixed, or possibly BT is currently restricting my profile due to the history of disconnections etc. in their database?

Nobody seems prepared/able to confirm why I achieved really quite good speeds right through & beyond the initial 10 day training period, yet now I achieve nowhere near those speeds.

I don't suppose you have any suggestions as to how I could get factual confirmation of the current position do you?

One engineer, who is sadly no longer an active member of a different public forum (Kitz), suspected my D-side may be suffering from a continued (possibly intermittent) HR fault, not now severe enough to cause a complete loss of connection following SOME repair works, but severe enough to be restricting my profile / sync & therefore download speeds.

My stats do now show high attenuation values, but the physical line length has never been actually confirmed, so I don't know if they are too high for its length.
Unfortunately, I have no idea what the attenuation values were when I solidly obtained decent speeds, with no noticed disconnections.

So, back to the original thread, it MAY be possible that Cyberoonie is experiencing similar issues now that his line has been "fixed".


Paul.
Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(learned) Mon 07-Nov-11 08:59:06
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Cyberoonie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Cyberoonie:
Did you happen to notice any different in the attainable rate when you had this problem or did that remain the same throughout?

I was meant to receive a phone call today with regards to the issue - nothing as of yet but they did ring at 9pm last time.

In terms of current stats they are:

Uptime: 202822
Attainable Rate: 16564 / 3260
SNR: 2.9 / 7.3
Output Power: 8.8 / 1.1

Line Rate: 14999 / 2538
CRC Errors: 56571 / 0
FEC Errors: 1004 / 2
HEC Errors: 15700 / 0

No signs of any increased speed or error reduction - well at least not according to the modem.


Hi Cyberoonie,

I didn't have access to my stats back then so I'm unable to answer your question, & now that I do, nobody takes a blind bit of notice as my connection is supposedly performing within specification for its BT estimated speeds.

My pre-install estimated speed was 14.6MB & following the recent profile switch to 17a the estimated speed has increased to 24Mb.

The fact that I achieved much higher speeds solidly for the first month (months before the profile switch) appears to be conveniently overlooked as a possible "fluctuation".

For curiosity, have you had chance to discuss the possibility of BT resetting your profile yet?


Paul.

Edited by Bald_Eagle1 (Mon 07-Nov-11 11:49:13)

Standard User Cyberoonie
(newbie) Mon 07-Nov-11 19:31:28
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Bald_Eagle1] [link to this post]
 
Hi Bald Eagle,

Nothing from BT as of yet - work has taken a priority over the past few days so I'll be calling them tomorrow.

I did send a message to the BT Care team as suggested, I'll wait and see what comes back from that.

Whilst the connection has resynced since my last post, it wasn't for the better. The current stats are:

Uptime: 64927
Attainable Rate: 16269 / 2828
SNR: 5.1 / 5
Output Power: 8.8 / 1.4

Line Rate: 14644 / 2682
CRC Errors: 29530 / 0
FEC Errors: 1046 / 0
HEC Errors: 7255 / 0

Ill let you know how I get on with BT tomorrow
Standard User Bald_Eagle1
(learned) Thu 10-Nov-11 21:54:57
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Cyberoonie] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Cyberoonie:
Ill let you know how I get on with BT tomorrow


Hi Cyberoonie,

Any good news for us?

Paul.
Standard User Cyberoonie
(newbie) Fri 11-Nov-11 09:54:16
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Re: Faults Found by Openreach Engineer


[re: Bald_Eagle1] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Bald_Eagle1:
Hi Cyberoonie,

Any good news for us?

Paul.


Hi Paul,

After an hour and a half arguing on the phone with BT India I finally had an engineer ring randomly (nice of it when BT let you know they have passed it on to Openreach!) to say he'll be over in the morning.

He turned up, had the profile reset, checked the cab and now have the following stats:

Uptime: 4273
Attainable: 22224 / 1897
SNR: 6.9 / 6.1
Attenuation (according to the engineer) 32.1 / ?
Output Power: 10.6 / 4.5

Line rate: 21318 / 1936
CRC Errors: 0 / 0
FEC Errors: 6228 / 7
HEC Errors: 37391 / 0

The only bit I have noticed is that the HEC errors are sky rocketing again.

Also, he came, plugged the gear in and said your attainable is 23000 (and therefore is fixed).. it was already 23000 after the 17a profile change yesterday (increasing from 18000). I'm not really sure now whether he's reset my profile and now has the best speed with a fault remaining on the line, or whether that's as good as it gets even on 17a.

Edited by Cyberoonie (Fri 11-Nov-11 09:55:13)

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