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Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Tue 25-Jun-13 13:22:06
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Re: Effect of IP profile and how do individual ISP's use it


[re: jelv] [link to this post]
 
the first download will slow down as the second download speeds up, tcp has congestion control algorithms.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 25-Jun-13 17:49:52
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Re: Effect of IP profile and how do individual ISP's use it


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
But what about the VOIP issue je;v also raised in the same post? Or gaming latency? Remember the PN blog post explaining that's entirely what their traffic management is about - QOS.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 53.4/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 26-Jun-13 07:27:06
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Re: Effect of IP profile and how do individual ISP's use it


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
well now we talking about different things, fair use QoS vs the IP profiling.

TCP isnt perfect, QoS does have a place. But TCP in general will do a reasonable job on its own.

Also some congestion control algorithms are better than others eg. CTCP and cubic are generally better than new reno.

As already mentioned TCP will give more bandwidth when latency is lower, also something that has multiple threads/connections will get favourable treatment as well (torrents), and that TCP has no idea if what its sending has importance of latency vs throughput. QoS works well for managing those sort of situations.

What plusnet are doing may help some people, but I think it has a bigger place on slower connections, as once connections get fast enough QoS isnt so much needed. Of course not all FTTC connections are that fast, some may sync 10mbit or so with low upload speeds, and then QoS can defenitly be useful for certian usage patterns.

I am not dishing what plusnet and BTw are doing but just I think the IP profiles are not really required to throttle back tcp traffic per connection.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 26-Jun-13 21:14:10
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Re: Effect of IP profile and how do individual ISP's use it


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
well now we talking about different things, fair use QoS vs the IP profiling.
jelv made a post with two questions to you. You replied to one but ignored the other.

Nobody has mentioned "fair use", so I don't know where that came from. The thread is surely about management of the particular connection, not overall traffic management of an ISP's resources.

So we are still ignorant of what you think happens to VOIP with your plausible explanation of how multiple P2P stream contend within an individual connection smile.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 53.4/16.8Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 28-Jun-13 11:38:17
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Re: Effect of IP profile and how do individual ISP's use it


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
I am not dishing what plusnet and BTw are doing but just I think the IP profiles are not really required to throttle back tcp traffic per connection.


Take a single person running their internet connection downloading over TCP - the amount of data hitting the bottleneck, in this case the MSAN, be it VDSL or ADSL, and the way the data will constantly be filling buffers them emptying then filling buffers again them emptying.

Take the buffers on the MSAN, then add buffers on a LAC along with however many standard routers in the path.

Think about what that excess data will do to the amount of bandwidth they are using, remembering that this bandwidth is measured way upstream from the bottleneck.

At 40-ish quid a Megabit a month across a large user base this rather quickly gets expensive. Far better this gets choked at a BRAS much closer to the ISP.

The IP Profile is not there for the convenience or otherwise of individual users, it is there for the benefit of BT Wholesale, it makes capacity planning easier, avoids cascading buffering from MSAN right through to BRAS, and avoids ISPs paying for data while those buffers fill.

I entirely agree IP profiles aren't required to throttle TCP back per connection, as do BT Wholesale, which is why that isn't their purpose.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 28-Jun-13 14:13:01
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Re: Effect of IP profile and how do individual ISP's use it


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
yeah I said something similiar previously also that I think profiles are used to help isp's manage capacity.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012
Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Fri 28-Jun-13 16:47:33
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Re: Effect of IP profile and how do individual ISP's use it


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Can you think of a better way?
Standard User adslmax
(knowledge is power) Fri 27-Dec-13 17:35:30
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Re: Effect of IP profile and how do individual ISP's use it


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Plusnet often a very strange ip profile on their side. Some day it never updated (even for 14 days waiting for ip profile to change) and some day it updated quickly instant. But, today my current line speed on plusnet set at 21Mb. That's why I getting fastest throughput speed than BT IP profile (around 10kbps faster)

Before: IP Profile -17.34Mb Throughput - 16:31Mb
Now: IP Profile -17.34Mb Throughput - 17.44Mb

http://s5.postimg.org/dq13fayp3/BT_Speed_v2.jpg

plusnetADSL2+16 Meg

Edited by adslmax (Fri 27-Dec-13 17:36:07)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 27-Dec-13 18:58:04
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Re: Effect of IP profile and how do individual ISP's use it


[re: adslmax] [link to this post]
 
As I asked you in your thread about that max, is that result repeatable. Your explanation here is extremely unlikely to be correct, as the lower of the two limits will always take precedence.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 59.4/14.4Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
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