General Discussion
  >> BTwholesale DSL Implementation


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | >> (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User akawtu
(learned) Sun 06-Jan-13 17:01:51
Print Post

Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[link to this post]
 
Call me clueless because I am but I would like to know the answer.

What is a reasonable price for Unlimited WBC per month?

What I mean by reasonable price can be shown with an example. A computer shop sells a computer part for the reasonable price of cost price + 15% so what is the equivalent reasonable price for Unlimited WBC?

Right now I am charged £29.40 by BT for Unlimited WBC and anytime calls but I can switch over to EE who charge only £7.50 for the same Unlimited WBC and anytime calls package.

I don't need the anytime calls so an even better option for me is Unlimited WBC from EE without anytime calls at a cost of £2.50 per month.

So basically BT's Unlimited WBC and anytime calls package is costing me just over £350 per year and it would cost only £30 per year if I migrate to EE on their £2.50 Unlimited WBC package.

It's been said that for EE the £2.50 price is a loss leader but no factual information is forthcoming regarding the loss. Allegedly EE can make up the difference with other charges/costs but I find it difficult to believe these extra charges could explain the price difference. My Unlimited WBC is stupidly expensive from BT yet it's crazy cheap from EE.

I realise I have cross posted this but I think it really deserves a wider audience in here than the EE forum.

EDIT: Here is the link to the EE page:

https://broadband.ee.co.uk/home.do?WT.mc_id=OFF_EE_V...

You have to enter your phone number and it'll give you the options available. The cheapest option is the £5 Unlimited WBC broadband with evening and weekend calls and because I am a T-Mobile customer I tick the existing customer box and they give me a credit of £30 making it £2.50 per month.

Even at £5 per month for non-customers it's still a bargain!!

Sorry for not including this earlier. I hope XRay doesn't read this because he'll be able to say I told you so and he would be correct! LOL! tongue

Edited by akawtu (Mon 07-Jan-13 04:04:56)

Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 06-Jan-13 17:28:46
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
if you dont think £2.50 is a loss leader you have lost the plot.

not only is it a loss but its a huge loss.

also their wbesite doesnt show the prices you quoted.


£25
a month
UP TO 76Mb/sec
Unlimited data
Includes off peak calls to landlines*
Plus £14 month line rental.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - Estimate 65.9/20 - Attainable peak 110/36 - Current Sync 71/20

Edited by Chrysalis (Sun 06-Jan-13 17:29:24)

Standard User akawtu
(learned) Sun 06-Jan-13 17:46:56
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Honestly, I am clueless about it all. I've tried to find out but there are no easy to read for the layman descriptions. There are acronyms and TLAs and lists of prices etc but I don't understand what they mean and neither do I have much hope of find out myself.

Obviously I'm not clueless about some things but for this topic I am completely in the dark.

I don't have much of an opinion on the loss although of course it does seem likely but how much of a loss is a huge loss?

Is it possible to know the reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User akawtu
(learned) Sun 06-Jan-13 18:10:52
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Sorry I should have posted the EE offer URL. I will update the first post with the link and information on it.

Also, I've been in contact with BT cancellations department the last couple of days about it and they have confirmed the EE deal is the same Unlimited WBC I receive from BT. The BT person even made a best offer of £13.75 for me to stay with BT. That is £13.75 for my current package of Unlimited WBC and anytime calls and from what I've been told on TBB this is the price the 10 Gig WBC users pay. The BT guy was allowing me have my Unlimited package at that price to keep me as a customer but I politely declined because the EE offer is still significantly lower.

Do you know if this £13.75 Unlimited WBC and anytime calls offer is a loss leader for BT?

Edited by akawtu (Sun 06-Jan-13 18:11:54)

Standard User pcoventry76
(knowledge is power) Sun 06-Jan-13 18:13:40
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
The current deal you get is Wholesale Broadband Connect.

The EE deal is FTTC - unless things have changed in the past few years they are not the same.
Standard User akawtu
(learned) Sun 06-Jan-13 18:24:56
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: pcoventry76] [link to this post]
 
No, I'm telling the truth!

I'm not so clueless about this part of the situation I am in because I actually did migrate to EE Unlimited WBC. I even have the welcome email from EE and BT even confirmed it. I think BT were scrambling at the time to deal with my call maybe because they hadn't heard about the deal so I was left on hold for a short time and the BT person came back and confirmed the deal is real.

However, I decided I made a hasty mistake so I cancelled the migration but I won't go into it here as it's a side story about my changing broadband requirements for the downstairs broadband.

I still want EE Unlimited WBC but I will order a second line to go with this great deal. It's a long story LOL but what I have said above really is true and if you must hear the whole story I can type it out!
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 06-Jan-13 19:18:34
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: pcoventry76] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by pcoventry76:
The EE deal is FTTC - unless things have changed in the past few years they are not the same.
Scroll down the page he added the link to in the OP.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 06-Jan-13 19:22:07
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
Sorry I haven't replied yet to that other thread, I've been very busy and now whacked. (It would be a good idea to alter your settings here to accept PM's. Nearly all of us do and it can be very useful for some (legitimate) things best not posted publicly, and this sort of thing).

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 06-Jan-13 19:36:22
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
also their website doesn't show the prices you quoted.

£25 a month
UP TO 76Mb/sec
OP is only talking about EE's ordinary ADSL product.

On R after you enter your phone #
Or further down the top EE BB page.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User akawtu
(learned) Sun 06-Jan-13 19:39:28
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Apologies Bob, but I prefer not to have PMs enabled.

I know from past experience people can take offence and I must admit I am unintentionally leaving out important details and when these people don't like what I have to say they aren't slow to privately scold me. It's happened already but I don't mind it publicly as everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 06-Jan-13 19:43:53
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by akawtu:
from what I've been told on TBB this is the price the 10 Gig WBC users pay.
You don't need to go just by what I told you here; you can see for yourself officially: http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProduc...

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 06-Jan-13 19:55:18
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by akawtu:
I can switch over to EE who charge only £5 for the same Unlimited WBC and anytime calls package.
No, EE's Unlimited ADSL + Anytime Calls works out at £7.50 pm. You have confused the £30 welcome credit with a half-price discount. Of course for the Off-Peaks Calls package they work out the same, but not for this Anytime Calls.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 06-Jan-13 20:08:13)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 06-Jan-13 20:00:20
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by akawtu:
Do you know if this £13.75 Unlimited WBC and anytime calls offer is a loss leader for BT?
Yes, it's just a retention offer in an attempt to keep you. It's quite commonplace; many ISPs make them.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 06-Jan-13 20:32:12
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by akawtu:
I don't have much of an opinion on the loss although of course it does seem likely but how much of a loss is a huge loss?
Again I'm ducking out, in not searching for it and I haven't a current link, but the Openreach price list for phone line rental and broadband provision over it is public information. Then there is the corresponding price from BT Wholesale that ISPs buy the broadband service from.

Complicated in this case by the fact that Orange some time last year gave up all their LLU equipment and ISP contracts with BT Wholesale and handed the lot over to BT Wholesale. Orange broadband, and I assume therefore EE broadband, is actually a White Label product, with Orange/EE being simply a sales organisation for it. What the contractual and costing arrangements for that are a complete commercial secret.
Is it possible to know the reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?
Effectively no.

For example, to compare the EE deal you are looking at with one from O2 that ran for a long time, (OK it's LLU but demonstrates the principle), it was possible to sign up to O2 LLU and at the end of 12 months be in profit! They paid you to use them. crazy. EE are almost doing the same. In fact, wait a mo ....

yes ... see this page.

Quite how/whether you would fit in as you already have an EE mobile is another question.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User akawtu
(learned) Mon 07-Jan-13 03:57:47
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Maybe we can extrapolate based on line rental prices?

http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricin...

Once the page has loaded click on WLR Pricing and click on 1.1.2 Line Rental Prices.

The cost price of Line Rental is currently £98.81 per year (includes VAT) which works out at £9.88 per month (includes VAT). EE are charging £14 per month (includes VAT) so we're looking at a ~40% mark up.

EE charge £5 per month for the cheapest Unlimited WBC, this is without any offers. This £5 price is what everyone would pay if they were out of contract in 12 months time unless a price increase occurred but that is unlikely to happen right after the minimum contract term.

Is this £5 per month a loss leader??? I find it hard to believe a company could take on millions of customers at a loss and especially as after the 12 months it is unlikely EE would be able to increase the price very much! The £5 must include some mark up surely? I read that EE has almost 30 million mobile customers and you can bet a large number of these customers will be taking up the half price broadband deal. It's a no-brainer.

Based on the Line Rental pricing and mark up of 40% we could figure a cost price for Unlimited WBC of around £3.60 per month (includes VAT). EE have offered me a special offer of £2.50 per month so is it a loss leader of £1.10 per month?

BT charge me £29.40 for Unlimited WBC and anytime calls. The cost of anytime calls is unknown to me but for this example we will assume it is £4 for now which is probably way over priced. So £25.40 for Unlimited WBC and we've extrapolated a cost price of £3.60 so a mark up of £21.80 which is more than 600%!

Obviously the costs are a lot more complex than the crude example above but the cost to the customer figures are useful when trying to work out what is going on. The £5 per month for Unlimited WBC does mean something! No company can sell a product at a loss for a sustained period so for EE it does appear that they can provide Unlimited WBC to their customers for £5 per month! This is a fact because they are doing it right now and they will be doing it in 12 months time and it wouldn't make sense for them to do it while losing money! That would be stupid!

Obviously the deal regarding the LLU hand over to BT is complicating things but it still comes down to no strings attached £5 Unlimited WBC broadband.

I just had a thought. What if BT realised they could do this LLU hand over deal with Orange and allow EE to charge their new broadband customers a lower price, BT can make up the difference because they already overcharge their loyal customers and that extra we are paying is now used to balance the lower cost EE is charging it's customers!

However I am now left wondering why would BT want EE to succeed in the broadband market??? Oh wait I might have the answer, it would help kill the broadband market by allowing two massive broadband companies to dominate the market and the other broadband companies would be left scrambling for the scraps???

No that can't be it! Disregard that, I think I might be onto something. There are LLU companies out there who are hurting BT a lot for example Talk Talk! BT can't compete with Talk Talk because if they did their revenue and of course their profits would drop massively. BT want to continue overcharging their loyal customers while gaining new customers at the prices the LLU providers are charging!

BINGO!

BT now have a means of taking revenue and therefore profit from the LLU providers. EE are doing it right now for BT and BT can still overcharge their loyal customers because well most of us don't check prices! I am betting they didn't expect this to get out so quickly. Am I right???

IS IT POSSIBLE THAT BT AREN'T CONTENT WITH RIPPING OFF THEIR LOYAL CUSTOMERS? ARE THEY LOOKING FOR MORE OF THE PIE AND HAVE MADE A DEAL WITH EE TO TAKE CUSTOMERS AWAY FROM THE LLU SUPPLIERS???
Standard User akawtu
(learned) Mon 07-Jan-13 04:00:36
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Just because it is quite commonplace doesn't mean we can't challenge it!

It's not criminal but morally it is wrong to charge some customers a high price and other customers a low price for the exact same broadband package???
Standard User akawtu
(learned) Mon 07-Jan-13 04:03:14
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
See there I go getting it wrong again. frown

On the EE website it says:

BROADBAND
AS AN EXISTING CUSTOMER YOU GET £5 OFF YOUR PACKAGE

But you are correct that quote isn't true for all the packages!

I'll update the first post. Thanks again for correcting me my friend. tongue
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 07-Jan-13 04:34:49
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
indeed, and now O2 have uncompetitive mobile deals, seems to ring the same bell as EE?

paying people to take line based broadband but subsidised by the mobile customers.

even if adsl at £2.50 thats way below wholesale cost.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - Estimate 65.9/20 - Attainable peak 110/36 - Current Sync 71/20
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 07-Jan-13 04:36:02
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
BT broadband and EE broadband are not exact same packages tho.

different backhaul, different peering, different policies, different support, different contention levels etc.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - Estimate 65.9/20 - Attainable peak 110/36 - Current Sync 71/20
Standard User akawtu
(learned) Mon 07-Jan-13 04:46:08
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
I'm talking about BT Unlimited WBC prices.

I am paying £29.40 per month for Unlimited WBC and anytime calls but BT offered it to me for £13.75 per month!!!

There will be others like me who are paying £29.40 and they have no idea that other customers are have the exact same package from BT for a lower price. Customers like me who right now have no idea they can call up BT cancellations to get a reduced price!

I didn't know the prices had changed so drastically. I have been paying £29.40 per month to BT for years.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 07-Jan-13 04:56:16
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
I am also, just because 2 isp's use WBC it doesnt mean they both the same.

As for both on the same isp thats just the way the cookie crumbles. Inevitably it will happen as companies now days are always doing deals for new customers, and some also have retention deals.

The £13.75 is probably not a sustainable price, ie. if everyone paid that price service would suffer. Normal price seems to be just over £20 for what you have.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - Estimate 65.9/20 - Attainable peak 110/36 - Current Sync 71/20
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 07-Jan-13 05:15:49
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
Why would anyone challenge a considerably cheaper retention deal offered to them?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User akawtu
(learned) Mon 07-Jan-13 05:19:35
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
No you said:

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
BT broadband and EE broadband are not exact same packages tho.

different backhaul, different peering, different policies, different support, different contention levels etc.

I wasn't talking about EE at all but you appeared to think I was.

Why must it be just the way the cookie crumbles?

It's morally wrong for a company to charge significantly different pricing for the exact same broadband package. Some BT customers pay the higher price and some BT customers pay the lower price! That isn't right! You act like it's fine for BT to rip off their loyal customers but to me it's like they are stealing money from people who don't know any better! I didn't know any better until recently. BT has been overcharging me the same amount for years!
Standard User akawtu
(learned) Mon 07-Jan-13 05:31:42
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
That isn't the point I am making.

We must challenge BT because morally it is wrong for them to do what they are doing?

Are you suggesting I should shut up and take the deal because it's better for me regardless that I know there will be a significant number of BT customers who are still paying the higher price?
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 07-Jan-13 05:43:40
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by akawtu:
BROADBAND
AS AN EXISTING CUSTOMER YOU GET £5 OFF YOUR PACKAGE
But you are correct that quote isn't true for all the packages!
You still got it wrong. THAT is true for every EE package. It is the £30 Welcome bonus that has diff effect on diff packages.

You also have misread the non-customer price for the off peak package. It is £7.50 not the £5 you quote cuz you again confuse welcome bonus with existing customer discount.

And it is that £7.50 that you should be using to compare with the wholesale price. In which analysis you have confused BT Retail with BT Wholesale. You are a confusing confused person!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 07-Jan-13 05:53:43
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
It may not be the point you are making, but it is the sole point to which you replied.

To your point - Caveat Emptor!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User akawtu
(learned) Mon 07-Jan-13 06:01:48
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Oh My Gosh! Why are they making it so damn confusing???

HAHA! Thanks again for seeing it as it is my friend! laugh

I'm just a guy looking to find out about broadband and it's a mine field of information so forgive me when I get it wrong!!!

Mind you £5 or £7.50 it's not much of a difference compared to £29.40 which is going up to over £31 soon!!!

I'm not even going to edit what I wrote I'll just add a foot note to come to your post LOL! tongue
Standard User akawtu
(learned) Mon 07-Jan-13 06:04:37
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
Drat, I can't edit the post anymore, the editing time has expired!

Oh well, I think I got the gist of it right anyway.
Standard User akawtu
(learned) Mon 07-Jan-13 06:07:20
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
See, this is why I like you.

We should play chess HAHA it would be a war! I would need some time to get good though.laugh

No way heads up poker though it'd be too much variance. HAHAHA! smile
Standard User akawtu
(regular) Mon 07-Jan-13 06:22:22
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Actually are you sure about the £7.50?

It's just I read the letter again and it says:

Hello akawtu,

Great news. You've probably heard all about EE by now, the new network for your digital life from the company behind T-Mobile and Orange. Well, as a T-Mobile customer, you can get your hands on an exclusive half-price offer on home broadband from EE, right here, right now. All you need to do is switch before 31 January 2013.

The usual price is £5 a month, but we'll give you £30 credit on your broadband bill. Which means you can get online for a whole year for just £2.50 a month, plus £14 monthly line rental. It's just our way of sharing the love.

And you'll get more than a brilliant price. You'll have great service and lots of amazing features too as part of the EE offering.

Looks to me like it really is £5 per month!
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 07-Jan-13 09:43:59
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
This thread wanders between the question in the Subject and the morality of BT Retail's charging policies. That in itself is confusing. Particularly when you use the (known to be) excessive charge you pay when examining that question.

I think it highly probably that the recently announced Plusnet prices are close to being the answer, whilst still allowing a reasonable profit margin.

I don't know where you read that EE have 30 million mobile customers, but given the population of the country that seems a little high. Even allowing for a fair number of people with more than one mobile. Many of whome may have an old Orange PAYG SIM lying around with a few quid in - as I do. I also have a Virgin one in the same state, that I was forced into to get the deal I wanted on a handset.

I think it highly improbable that EE are thinking of anything like "several million", given that after several years of decline from the Orange peak their latest published figure that I'm aware of for broadband connections was 714,000.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 07-Jan-13 10:26:13
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Simple really:

In a shop the price on the price tag can be negotiated, but how many people bother? Most pay the price shown, is that immoral? BT and many other providers are doing the same.

With WBC the broadband component can be very cheap or very expensive depending on how much capacity a provider decides to buy and what other products are in the bundle to cross-subsidise it, e.g. BT Retail has land line calls, EE has mobile and landline.

EE is also in the situation where it is trying to acquire market share after a few years of poor performance, and the normal way to do this is a loss leader and then increase prices once you break the million customer barrier or keep seem price while enjoying economy of scale.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Bob_s2
(experienced) Mon 07-Jan-13 11:08:50
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
Unlimited is difficult to cost as it depends on how much people actually use it. Different ISP's masy have different useage patterns which can effect costs
Standard User Bob_s2
(experienced) Mon 07-Jan-13 11:11:49
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Selling Unlimited to cheaply though can lead to poor service. Cheap packages as well tend to attract the heaviest users another problem. Suport can also suffer
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 07-Jan-13 13:04:42
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
Yes, I'm certain!

That letter is solely offering the lowest, off-peak, package to
In reply to a post by akawtu:
as a T-Mobile customer
for £2.50 pm.

Non-customers pay £5 more for the same package = £7.50. Everyone new to EE BB gets the £30 welcome, which works out as 6 months free for existing customers or 3 months free for non-customers.

These figures are plastered all over the EE pages that you exhorted us to visit.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 07-Jan-13 13:53:53
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
its business, I dont proactively discount my existing customers because I have updated fee's for new ones.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - Estimate 65.9/20 - Attainable peak 110/36 - Current Sync 71/20
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Mon 07-Jan-13 15:56:31
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
Is it possible to know the reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?
Yes, ` If it's possible to define "unlimited" wink

Pricing is all about fixed cost recovery, we can find the fixed monthly costs of various BT inputs then you have to decide how much capacity you need. Some will provide 100 kbits/s or less, feed it through traffic management kit and call it "unlimited". Others will provide less bandwidth, call it unlimited, let it get very congested, etc.

The standard end user rental is £5.88 per month for a WBC broadband service with a £39.79 new connection charge, £11 migration charge, or £39.79 migration from LLU charge.

Contracted bandwidth costs £40 per Mbit/s per month. So if your definition of unlimited requires 100k that's £4 per month or if it requires 1M it's £40 per month. See the problem ?

All above subject to VAT and possibly to bulk discounts. Other fixed charges are required for example a 1 GBit/s extension path connection to the ISP costs £17k pa.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 07-Jan-13 17:42:35
Print Post

Re: Reasonable cost of Unlimited WBC?


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
A constant 1 Mbps equates to 300GB of data a month, some people can see it easier in that term.
UK average usage is around the 23GB mark when Ofcom last spoke.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 08-Jan-13 12:24:05
Print Post

Plusnet Undercuts EE for Unlimited WBC!


[re: akawtu] [link to this post]
 
Plusnet now sells Unlimited WBC for £4.99 pm, undercutting EE's non-customer price of £7.50 (which you misrepresented in your TT thread) and you don't need anybody's mobile contract to get this cheap deal.

EE's existing customer price of £2.50 pm is not comparable with this PN deal because you need to be already locked into a high-price EE mobile contract from which they can offset the loss on the BB.

What price a reasonable cost Unlimited WBC now?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 08-Jan-13 13:00:20
Print Post

Re: Plusnet Undercuts EE for Unlimited WBC!


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/plusnet/package/12...
Plusnet reverts to £9.99 after the 12 month minimum term.

People need to check the calls packages though to really figure out which is cheaper, e.g. calls to mobiles can be very variable in price

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 08-Jan-13 13:10:37
Print Post

Re: Plusnet Undercuts EE for Unlimited WBC!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Plusnet reverts to £9.99 after the 12 month minimum term.
EE reverts to £10 after the 12 month minimum term. Still 1p advantage to PN grin.

EDIT: Who knows what offers will be around a year hence?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 08-Jan-13 13:13:04)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 08-Jan-13 13:58:14
Print Post

Re: Plusnet Undercuts EE for Unlimited WBC!


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
People need to check the calls packages though to really figure out which is cheaper
PN inclusive calls are evenings and weekends; EE are evenings only.

EE is slightly cheaper for geographic #s.
EE is far cheaper for 0845/0870.
PN is slightly cheaper for mobiles
EE charges a 12.5p set-up for 0800/0808; presumably these are free with PN as they are not mentioned.

Anyway I would not place my phone line with either of them, so I'm not eligible for these offers.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | >> (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to