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Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 12-Aug-15 14:12:27
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What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[link to this post]
 
What do you make of these ping and traceroute stats I've obtained, going from my PC to a well-known, well-used host? Would it be right for me to describe these response times (latency) as excessive? And would you say that the problem must lie on the Internet, out beyond my exchange, rather than anywhere on my actual machine?

I've been having this problem for over a week now. After the first day of erratic acquisition of my usual websites I reported it to my ISP. They maintained there was no issue but changed their mind soon after, when a number of others complained of similar. I sent them repeated pings and tracert reports and in the end they contacted BT about it - or at least, that's the story I was given. Last Monday morning my ISP told me in an e-mail that BT had found and fixed the problem. But I myself was still having the problem. It's still ongoing, and my ISP is no longer responding to any of my results or any comments from me.

I'm on ADSL (G.Dmt). Sync'ing between my Billion 8800NL router and my exchange is stable and reasonable. It's always been okay. I run both a Mac and a Windows PC on my home network and these tests from each one give similar, alarming results.

What's your candid opinion as to where the problem lies, and can BT be pressured into exploring the offending server(s) and properly solving this issue?

As far as my memory serves me, ping delays should normally lie in the range of about 20 - 30 milliseconds, not 20 times that amount! Some of the hop delays below are amounting to 600 milliseconds or more.

Obviously, I've tried all the usual things, like clearing caches and cookies from the respective browsers.

Would or could G.dmt operation give these results if my ISP has got me on ADSL2/+ instead?

C:\>ping http://www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging http://www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.244.66] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.58.244.66: bytes=32 time=331ms TTL=55
Reply from 212.58.244.66: bytes=32 time=338ms TTL=55
Reply from 212.58.244.66: bytes=32 time=385ms TTL=55
Reply from 212.58.244.66: bytes=32 time=388ms TTL=55

Ping statistics for 212.58.244.66:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 331ms, Maximum = 388ms, Average = 360ms

C:\>tracert http://www.bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to http://www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.244.66]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 432 ms 435 ms 433 ms 109.109.190.129
3 404 ms 395 ms 460 ms edge.td.vispa.net.uk [83.217.160.11]
4 564 ms 463 ms 602 ms te-8-3-203.car2.Manchester1.Level3.net [195.50.1
21.233]
5 462 ms 481 ms 480 ms ae-231-3607.edge4.London1.Level3.net [4.69.166.2
5]
6 464 ms 464 ms 425 ms BBC-TECHNOL.edge4.London1.Level3.net [212.113.14
.222]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 304 ms 288 ms 261 ms ae0.er01.telhc.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.109]
9 280 ms 284 ms 261 ms 132.185.255.149
10 282 ms 266 ms 332 ms bbc-vip111.telhc.bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.66]

Trace complete.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 12-Aug-15 14:43:23
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
If latency is good between 7am and 8am then it will be congestion most likely and not uour connection.

A number of providers have seen issues since windows 10 was available for download

As wholesale network is invisible pinning blame to any point is difficult. Comparing notes with others on isp is a good way to see if just you or an isp wide issue

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 12-Aug-15 14:55:23
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Hop 2 is Vispa, so I wonder if they have their own low-capacity WBMC or IPSC feed?

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57584/13846kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 12-Aug-15 14:56:27)


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Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 12-Aug-15 15:47:42
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I did mention the Windows 10 scenario to my ISP (Vispa), the first time I contacted them about the high latency. I'd seen the article about Windows 10 on this website. As I recall, downloads had raised latency times to as much as 40 milliseconds. But that's way, way different to the kinds of figures I'M getting. A whole week's gone by anyway and, if anything, my latency figures have increased; you'd expect them to decrease eventually, once the Windows 10 rush were over, so clearly it's nothing to do with that.

Comparing notes with others using the same ISP isn't possible in my case because I know of nobody local to me who uses Vispa. The only opportunity for comparing these results would be if Vispa users in this locale were experiencing the same problem and were to post on thinkbroadband.com. (As it happens, after the second day Vispa told me they'd had a spate of similar complaints about latency but they were not in a position to tell me where those particular users were situated. All they said was that they were 'in a different part of the country to themselves').

If a problem's being caused by a 'gateway server', on the Internet side of my exchange, then the fault may well be localised, causing perhaps only a limited number of users to complain.

Addendum: Incidentally, during last week (during daylight hours) there were times when I was completely unable to acquire a website frequently used by me. It happened on different days and with different websites. I'd wait for as much as 1 or 2 minutes for a response but would then give up and visit some other website instead. And on some traceroutes last week, the trace would time out at a particular server and so would never complete. Everything just became flakey.

Edited by meditator (Wed 12-Aug-15 16:09:08)

Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 12-Aug-15 15:51:46
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
'Low-capacity WBMC or IPSC feed'? Please explain. Are you suggesting that my ISP is deliberately, or unintentionally, slowing things down?
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 12-Aug-15 16:57:39
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
No. I'm suggesting they may not have huge throughput capacity between the BTW Cloud and their first router (hop 2). They aren't a huge ISP and aren't hugely rich.

Seeing any trend in their accounts is difficult, as they seem to have reorganised things a year or so ago, so all I can see is the April 2014 ones. April 2015 are due to be submitted by 31/1/16.

You say you are on G.DMT. Do you mean only ADSL Max is available at your exchange? Which exchange is it please?

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57584/13846kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 12-Aug-15 17:15:24
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
We have a BQM tool that monitors connections and of the 10 from Vispa users 8 out of the 10 look to have congestion that follows a relatively common pattern suggesting ISP capacity is the issue - not total proof but ratio of good to bad is higher than I'd normally expect.

BQM tracks latency over time, so we see people returning to a vague normal level at 3am to 4am, but other wise pings are all over the place from standard 20 to 25 up to 80 to 140ms or more.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 12-Aug-15 20:05:18
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
No, what I'm saying is that all ADSL modes, and FTTC for that matter, are available but due to me being on a long copper line all the way to the exchange anything above an 8M bps service works out in fact worse than staying with the lower speed service. It's accepted wisdom that that can happen beyond a certain line length. I tested out my line for that .. oh .. 2 or 3 years ago now and confirmed I was slightly better off on the 8M bps one. I sync at about 4.3M bps. It's just that I've been wondering whether the ISP has recently put me on ADSL2 and whether, in terms of latency, that's had a terrible effect. Sync speed hasn't changed.

The exchange is Molesey (SW London).

The ISP's immediate reaction when I told them about the poor response/long latencies more than a week ago now was for them to reset my profile at the exchange. This was a daft thing to do in my view. I hadn't asked them to change anything about my connection profile, and none of the evidence was pointing toward a problem with my router or my computers.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 12-Aug-15 20:26:32
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I've been with Vispa for several years now and up until just over a week ago I never noticed any poor responses (long latencies). But when it became visibly slow last week I decided to run some pings and traceroutes and realised that the response times were inordinately long.

In fact, the ISP always makes a big song-and-dance about how well they manage their own services. But with it recently getting to the point where, at even mid-afternoon, I've had to abandon visiting Amazon and the like because I wait and wait ... for minutes ... and I never get the site, it justy gets stupid. But then 10 mins later I try again and its fine.

With one site that I commonly visit, I'm currently having to wait about 17 seconds before literally all elements of the homepage actually get to screen.

This is just totally unacceptable, in my view.

BTW, earlier today I was asking for advice about this (from the router point of view) on Billion's forum and I submitted to the forum a set of results I'd taken, only a few minutes earlier. One respondent quickly ran his own to the BBC website and he was getting latencies of just 17 milliseconds. So, IMHO this isn't a contention issue, at least not at or around the BBC website itself.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 12-Aug-15 23:17:20
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
We can see from your tracert it is at or before Hop 2. The ones after are therefore affected by that. (A high ping in a tracert in the middle of low pings just means the relevant router had/has better things to do than respond immediately to pings. A high ping at a hop which then is maintained from there onwards means that router is probably congested).

Re the ADSL Max, I think we can conclude you are on WBMC rather than IPStream Connect. As the first hop (2) you see is Vispa I thik my theory stands a good chance of being right.

What happens if you do a tracert to the Beeb now? Or 8am. Times like that, compared to say 6pm.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync 57584/13846kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User sthen
(committed) Thu 13-Aug-15 07:41:32
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
ISP congestion has been mentioned, but another thing that could cause this is if you're doing a lot of transfers over the line (could happen unknowingly in some cases) - does your ISP provide any graphs that would allow you to check this out?

It would be worth setting up BQM yourself (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping) to see if there are any times of day where you don't have problems; if it's ISP congestion then it's very unlikely to be consistent across 24 hours.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 14-Aug-15 10:06:26
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
RobertoS,

I took your suggestion about performing an early-morning pair of tests and, low and behold, the latencies dropped right down to the order of 20 - 40 msecs. I therefore put it to the ISP that this must surely be a contention (congestion) problem somewhere in the WB connection, most likely at either 109.109.190.129 or at edge.td.vispa.net.uk.

The explanation from them has changed somewhat. They're saying that this is not the case, as my connection uses neither the WBC nor IP Stream network. This is news to me, as I was always under the impression I was on a BT Wholesale WBC link of some kind. Other than my ADSL connection, I buy no other service from Vispa. But I guess that broadband users generally may never be fully aware of the precise arrangement that their ISP has set up with BT, for certain accounts?

Further, Vispa maintain this is neither congestion nor a hard-and-fast problem with their fibre link. Instead, they say, it's an issue with the interconnect between themselves and their LLU provider. They say it isn't hardware-related, isn't affecting everyone, and so they reckon it's a routing issue between two pipes. They maintain they've proven that the fault doesn't lie in the Vispa network and they're still pursuing it with their LLU providers.

It's been 11 days since I first reported the problem to them and, after getting similar reports from a few other Vispa users around the country, they got down to trying to pinpoint the problem 2 days later. You'd have thought that by now they'd have fixed it, but I guess that this is an especially tricky problem to deal with and I can only wait and see what eventually transpires.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 14-Aug-15 13:11:37
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
Looks like TalkTalk business LLU then.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57584/13846kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 14-Aug-15 15:05:18
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I've absolutely no idea. I wish I knew. I personally would never go within a million miles of any TalkTalk product.

I became a Vispa customer by default, when a few years ago the ISP Skymarket (nothing to do with Sky) sold off various parts of their business and got out of consumer broadband entirely. Existing Skymarket BB users were automatically switched across to Vispa. Vispa's browser service on ADSL has been generally quite good since I've been with them, though their tech support I find a little bit wanting at times. It's only been of late that the ADSL service has been troublesome.

Keep watching this post, as they're claiming to have set a deadline of this weekend to finally fix this problem. And apparently they'll inform me just as soon as that happens.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 18-Aug-15 11:12:46
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
As promised, I thought I'd provide an update on this.

Over the weekend traceroutes from me were still showing a huge delay at 'manchester1.level3' [195.50.121.233], but at only there now. Vispa Support is off-air at weekends, so I therefore sent them an e-mail about it and waited for Monday to come around. So, yesterday morning (Monday) I found that that long delay at Manchester 1 had gone. All hops were now showing a delay of 29 - 31 msecs. Not brilliant, but certainly more acceptable. However, I had my suspicions and even remarked to Vispa Support whether this would last.

This morning (Tues), Vispa Support have declared to all their ADSL subscribers that the problem's been fixed. But I've just done a traceroute and, once again, the delay at that Manchester server/router is 200 - 300 msecs. Since they themselves are located at Manchester I can only summise that that router is either part of their own network or is a critical gateway of some sort. Unsurprisingly, doing a who-is gets no result. Either way, whoever they've assigned to deal with it is either just deliberately applying a temporary solution, or is incapable or unwilling to fix the problem for good.

As for the kind of service I'm on, last week their senior support man told me I was on neither WBMC nor IP Stream. (I'm actually supposed to be on ADSL Max, since my line cannot support anything faster; I could go FTTC but I hope to be moving quite soon to a completely different part of the country, so I've held back from upgrading to FTTC). However, when I consult the control panel of my account at Vispa, what I see under 'LNS' is 'wbc.vispa.net.uk'. Am I right in thinking, though, that WBC is part of a 21CN setup, embracing all of ADSL1, ADSL2, ADSL2+?

More than once now, I've asked them who their 'supplier' is but the silence is deafening. The wordings in their e-mail responses to me suggest that it's BT, ie. BT Wholesale.

I get the distinct feeling that Vispa's just stringing me along over this.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 18-Aug-15 13:30:54
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
If a single hop has bad pings and subsequent hops are ok suggests a switch/router may have high CPU load and is concentrating on routing rather than responding to ping requests. Posting the full trace route is usually best as its easy to miss something that someone else may see.

Level 3 nodes will be part of the provider transit/peering side and it is always possible for the broadband side to be fine and some peering links to run hot, i.e. a lot depends on how a provider sets up its peering and these routes can vary depending on where are heading to on the Internet.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 18-Aug-15 13:54:42
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
Level 3 is one of the main international routing companies in and out of the UK. 195.50.121.233 is listed as belonging to them, as per the tracert.

Probably hosted at this datacentre. (Scroll down and click the Manchester tab).

In your OP the holdup was two hops earlier, at Vispa themselves, as later hops cannot influence preceding ones. But I have another thought.

I expect you can run this tester, ignoring all the red instructions. Just click you've done them. But! Will it let you click the Further Diagnostics at the bottom of the page then a more detailed result after entering your phone number on the next page?

I'm looking for a report like this (with your results in):-
Download speedachieved during the test was - 26.87 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 39.24 Mbps-56.05 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 56.05 Mbps
If you get that, the underlying provider is BT Wholesale. Please post it like I have if you do. Just a copy and paste like that.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57970/13958kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 19-Aug-15 13:21:51
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
RobertoS,

That particular BT speedtester happens to be the very one that Vispa Support recommended I ran some two weeks ago, when the latency problem first arose and I reported it to them. I didn't actually run it two weeks ago, as I already knew at what speed my connection runs (my 8800NL router gives me all the stats) and I'd already run several ping and traceroute tests. So, do you think that that's an indication that the 'provider' is definitely BTWholesale and not some other outfit?

Regardless, I went to the tester today and, using my Windows machine rather than the Mac I have, I did what you suggested, and the basic test did in fact run. However, for some reason it was impossible to do a copy-and-paste of the results. Possibly, this was caused by my edition of Flash being out of date. It was really annoying because I could highlight everything apart from the very results! Unfortunately, I have my Mac set up to not allow Flash for every single website and it requires my approval for each site I visit. However, this mechanism doesn't work on the bt speedtester.

Thus, I had to just jot down the results. There were only three and they were:

Download speed (Mbps): 3.77
Upload speed (Mbps): 0.63
Ping latency (ms): 54.63

I actually ran this twice, after an interval of about a minute. The second latency time was 60.63.

The two speeds are pretty much correct, and the latency time is about twice as long as I've been seeing for most hops these last couple of days.

It accepted my wanting to run Further Tests and it started them, but I then got:

"Test Error. The performance tester is currently unable to run a speed test for your broadband connection. Please try again shortly. However, if this problem persists, raise the issue with your service provider".

So, I had to abort the Further Tests.

Aside from the bt speedtester, I've run some traceroutes this morning and have got these results:

Traceroute has started…

traceroute: Warning: www.bbc.co.uk has multiple addresses; using 212.58.244.67
traceroute to www.bbc.net.uk (212.58.244.67), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
1 192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254) 0.858 ms 0.769 ms 0.786 ms
2 109.109.190.129 (109.109.190.129) 23.003 ms 22.517 ms 22.889 ms
3 edge.td.vispa.net.uk (83.217.160.11) 23.117 ms 23.089 ms 23.107 ms
4 te-8-3-203.car2.manchester1.level3.net (195.50.121.233) 23.583 ms 23.181 ms 23.185 ms
5 ae-122-3508.edge4.london1.level3.net (4.69.166.13) 29.206 ms 29.482 ms 30.327 ms
6 bbc-technol.edge4.london1.level3.net (212.113.14.222) 29.050 ms 29.930 ms 29.511 ms
7 * * *
8 ae0.er01.telhc.bbc.co.uk (132.185.254.109) 30.094 ms 31.910 ms 30.906 ms
9 132.185.255.149 (132.185.255.149) 29.975 ms 30.208 ms 30.262 ms
10 bbc-vip112.telhc.bbc.co.uk (212.58.244.67) 29.680 ms 29.924 ms 29.223 ms

Now, you'll notice that the latency figures are now consistent, albeit that they're quantitively not brilliant. However, since last weekend, when Vispa first claimed to have fixed the problem, the latencies have been very up-and-down (eg. 29msecs for some hops, 600msecs for other hops). When I told Vispa this on Monday again, they'd by then claimed to have fixed the problem. So, they went away and did something else. Not sure what. The next time I did a traceroute I found that the problem area had moved from the edge.td.vispa.net.uk router to the manchester1.level3.net router, the latter now instead giving a figure of around 500msecs.

I got in touch with Vispa yet again and told them that this was getting beyond a joke; the problem wasn't solved; and they'd been messing around for two weeks now, supposedly fixing it. I told them I was exasperated and made noises to the effect that I'd terminate my account with them if this continued. Low and behold, within an hour the figures had changed and were now consistent (looking pretty much the same as in the traceroute above).

Interestingly, when I ran a traceroute last night, one of the hops - it was actually at london1.level3 - was now composed of three routers, each with a latency of around 56 msecs. But, as you can see, that's not now happening. Either Vispa's 'provider' is scurrying around, reallocating resources trying to resolve the problem, or (because of some permanent issue) the routing is automatically adapting and the long latencies are simply being shifted into other routers instead (if you see what I mean).

You being more savvy about routing on the Internet, are you able to conclude anything from this? Do you reckon the provider is BTWholesale? What do you suppose is happening with the long latencies seeming to come and go and to disappear from one router and re-appear instead at another further down the route?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 19-Aug-15 13:37:37
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
The BT Wholesale stuff will NOT run at all if you are not on their network so yes you are BT Wholesale based

ISPs that are not hosting an Akamai node to distribute Windows 10 have seen various problems, some fix it quickly others more slowly. A lot depends on what peering options are available and what provider decides to do.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 19-Aug-15 14:01:21
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
From the very outset I made it clear to Vispa Support that there was a possibility that downloads of the new Windows 10 could be causing high latency. I'd by then already read the article about that on this website. Incidentally, the article reckoned that latencies were increasing all day long to the dizzy heights of as much as 30msecs. VS and I very soon concluded that this was not a Windows 10 issue, as it could be seen that in the Manchester area (at that particular time) I was seeing latency of around 500msecs. Indeed, by now any such issue should well have abated.

As you can see, even right now, with all my complaining to VS, I'm averaging around 60msecs latency, and day-by-day it's often rising on some hops to the order of 500 - 600msecs.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 19-Aug-15 14:18:33
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
IMPORTANT

The effect of Windows 10 on the networks varied, hence why the four BQM I posted were not identical. Of course it may be that there was an additive issue, i.e. not just one thing affecting their network but lots of others.

As things stand now with the handful of Vispa BQM have running everyone say a 30 minute window of packet loss around 6:30am GMT and variable latency between 30 ms and 140ms plus looks common during the evening, plus some packet loss.

Cause unknown, but an ISP will know where traffic is going from and to, even if it cannot tell exactly what it is, e.g. is this youtube streams, or Akamai cached content or torrent traffic or BBC iPlayer etc

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 19-Aug-15 14:52:15
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Accepting fully that response times (latency) can vary depending on exactly where you're sited in relation to the host, this doesn't appear to be anything to do with congestion per se, as pings to the BBC website conducted by one or two other people at various locations around the UK have returned figures of around 17 - 20 msecs, with hardly any variation in the figure over a 24-hr period. As I reported earlier in this posting, I ran some pings and traceroutes at around 6am in the morning, the results of which demonstrated that this problem was not down to normal variation in latency over a 24-hr period.

BTW, when I first reported the problem some two weeks ago, VS told me in an e-mail later in the day that "their supplier had identified a fault and was in the process of fixing it". VS posted the same piece of news on their HelpDesk, on their website. At that time there were others contacting VS reporting the same thing as me.

Edited by meditator (Wed 19-Aug-15 15:00:10)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 19-Aug-15 14:57:31
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
Are those pings taking exactly the same trace route?

An ISP will peer out over several links and it is feasible that one may be bad and one may be good. Don't see enough Vispa users to know what their normal routes are to different places off the top of my head.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Wed 19-Aug-15 22:49:34
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
The BT Wholesale stuff will NOT run at all if you are not on their network so yes you are BT Wholesale based
Uh uh Andrew.

That was the change when they introduced the new Results page and put the graphics and IP Profile boxes into the new "Further diagnostics".

The initial test runs on any Openreach line. All the Further Diagnostics button does is pick up the sync and IP Profile from the BTW databases just as before to give us the original results page.

The error message the poster described is what is given, as the phone number isn't recognised.

This is why I asked the OP to run both stages. I think he is on LLU.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57970/13958kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 19-Aug-15 23:12:58
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Oh well can't be right all the time smile

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 20-Aug-15 12:29:30
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Here's a traceroute I performed last night.

7.50 pm, Wednesday.

Traceroute has started…

traceroute: Warning: www.bbc.co.uk has multiple addresses; using 212.58.246.55
traceroute to www.bbc.net.uk (212.58.246.55), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
1 192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254) 0.768 ms 0.753 ms 0.724 ms
2 109.109.190.129 (109.109.190.129) 23.019 ms 22.965 ms 22.838 ms
3 edge.td.vispa.net.uk (83.217.160.11) 23.470 ms 23.829 ms 22.888 ms
4 te-8-3-203.car2.manchester1.level3.net (195.50.121.233) 23.931 ms 23.008 ms 23.265 ms
5 ae-119-3505.edge4.london1.level3.net (4.69.166.1) 29.095 ms 29.019 ms 29.548 ms
6 bbc-technol.edge4.london1.level3.net (212.113.14.222) 29.708 ms 29.463 ms 29.631 ms
7 * * *
8 * * *
9 ae0.er01.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk (132.185.254.93) 30.785 ms 32.093 ms 30.752 ms
10 132.185.255.165 (132.185.255.165) 31.224 ms 31.128 ms 31.579 ms
11 bbc-vip046.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk (212.58.246.55) 31.195 ms 31.083 ms 30.817 ms

Notice that the large latencies we saw some days ago within the Vispa network have - at least for the moment - disappeared, and that it's actually as we go more into London that the latencies now pick up. I strongly suspect that, as a result of me complaining to Vispa so much the other day, someone - either at Vispa or BT themselves - has juggled the routing.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 20-Aug-15 12:37:20
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
BT are out of the equation before hop 2 (hop 1 is your router)

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 20-Aug-15 14:36:26
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yup, I realised that.

I think from hereon for a while it'll be a matter of me monitoring the latencies day to day, and seeing whether the long ones return again.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 21-Aug-15 10:21:28
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Fri 21st, 10.14am.

Here's a traceroute I've just done. Things have certainly improved since the beginning of the week, and right now the latencies are very reasonable (especially so, considering that this is a busy time of day). At present, the greatest delays seem to be nowhere at all in the Manchester area but instead are in the London zone. Looks like BT have done some more hands-on management and have significantly improved the situation.

Traceroute has started…

traceroute: Warning: www.bbc.co.uk has multiple addresses; using 212.58.244.66
traceroute to www.bbc.net.uk (212.58.244.66), 64 hops max, 72 byte packets
1 192.168.1.254 (192.168.1.254) 0.732 ms 0.518 ms 0.752 ms
2 109.109.190.129 (109.109.190.129) 15.620 ms 15.318 ms 15.512 ms
3 edge.td.vispa.net.uk (83.217.160.11) 16.178 ms 15.351 ms 15.514 ms
4 te-8-3-203.car2.manchester1.level3.net (195.50.121.233) 16.032 ms 15.842 ms 16.008 ms
5 ae-121-3507.edge4.london1.level3.net (4.69.166.9) 22.402 ms 26.725 ms 21.639 ms
6 bbc-technol.edge4.london1.level3.net (212.113.14.222) 22.668 ms 22.334 ms 22.027 ms
7 * * *
8 ae0.er01.telhc.bbc.co.uk (132.185.254.109) 22.169 ms 23.496 ms 22.769 ms
9 132.185.255.149 (132.185.255.149) 23.996 ms 23.002 ms 23.482 ms
10 bbc-vip111.telhc.bbc.co.uk (212.58.244.66) 22.822 ms 22.285 ms 22.369 ms
Standard User sthen
(committed) Sat 22-Aug-15 09:56:15
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
There are no delays in the London area in that traceroute, it's totally normal. One hop didn't respond to ICMP but there's nothing particularly unusual about that.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Mon 24-Aug-15 10:06:12
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Re: What do you make of these ping and traceroute figures?


[re: sthen] [link to this post]
 
Just yesterday, the entire Vispa network went down. It was dead for most of the day. I couldn't do anything. Speaks volumes.
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