Yet another confused (would be) buyer

OK, as I've been buying some toys to beat the VAT hike, I'm going to need a new wireless modem router. I'm currently using a conventional wired broadband connection.

I have been wireless before, and have always gone with Netgear, BUT, I don't know if I've just been unlucky, but they seem to have a habit of not lasting very long. What's worse is they haven't failed outright - making it easy to diagnose the problem - but have just become progressively more temperamental and unstable, so that I was blaming my poor ISP, and all sorts, before eventually sussing the router was the problem!

Last time, I got so fed up, I wanted to chuck the whole lot out of the window, and that's when I gave up the whole wireless thing, and reverted to a wired connection, which (touch-wood) has been rock-solid.

But the time has now come for me to try again, otherwise I cannot use the latest WiFi enabled gadgets, and cannot use my laptop anywhere other than at my desk, which I'm getting pretty sick of.

So, bearing in mind I don't fancy another Netgear, which way to go?

Is there any virtue in getting one of the new (but more expensive) boxes that have 3G as well, and automatic failover in the event your broadband goes down? Or are these an expensive gimmick?

I would say easiness of setup (including security) is a key feature I would look for. Not that I haven't managed OK in the past, but the process was not without its hitches, IIRC, and the assistance of a few good folk here! Range (but not a vast range) is also important, so that I might have the potential - if we ever get any nice weather - to get online from the garden. Finally, it needs to be fairly compact and smart looking. I don't have a lot of space, so it's probably going to end up inhabiting the windowsill - not much room, but quite conspicuous. So I don't want some ugly monstrosity on there...

Oh, and I have no idea whether I want/need dual band or ADSL2+. I'm with Plusnet, so think both my ISP and exchange already support it, but don't know what I need to do at my end to fully exploit it.

/Sigh. Sorry for long rant. It's obvious I've not checked the market in a while, isn't it?

T.

What router are you using at the moment and are Netgears definitely a "No No"

What sort of money are you wanting to spend?

I like Netgears but the Linksys WAG120N gets some good reviews (e.g. fwiw Which?) but I've never used a Linksys.

Can you post your line stats, it will tell us which Mode your router is using along with attenuation, noise margin etc. etc.


Harry

I'm with Plusnet, so think both my ISP and exchange already support it

The line stats you have been asked for will tell us if you are on ADSL2+, but if you are not they won't tell us whether or not your exchange supports it. I don't think Plusnet always move people across automatically straight away.

If you put your phone number into this checker and look for WBC enabled under BT Wholesale information that tells you.

Hi Harry,

Mixed news - I cannot get the router stats.

I'm using an ancient Speedtouch 330, which ironically is delivering better & more stable performance than when I tried to persevere with the Netgear.

As I say, I may just have been very unlucky with the latter, but I'm pretty sure it was the second one I've had that failed in a similar kind of way - magic for the first few months, then progressively more problems, until eventually the awful truth dawns that it's dying.

Anyway, as for the Speedtouch, it needs a utility called "Dr. SpeedTouch" to get the stats. I have this utility, but it won't run, as it keeps insisting it can't find the hardware, and that there is "something wrong with your computer". As I'm up and running stably with the hardware, and have been for at least a year or two, I'm inclined to believe the evidence of experience, and not that of the utility.

I'm not being deliberately uncooperative, but I'm in no mood for fault-finding, just to find out why the stats won't work, on a router I'm planning to scrap anyway.

I know the attenuation is high, as I'm on a long line, and have never been able to get better than about 4Mbps speed, on a good day, with any kit - indeed was delighted to achieve even that much! So I'm not expecting miracles.

I've checked my records, and find that I have been migrated to 21CN, but am still on ADSL at the moment, with the potential to upgrade to ADSL2+. Looks like I need to choose a new Plusnet product to do that.

If I'm right in my thinking, an ADSL2+ modem router should be backwards compatible to ADSL, meaning it could cope with either?

Tina

In reply to a post by TLM:

I've checked my records, and find that I have been migrated to 21CN, but am still on ADSL at the moment, with the potential to upgrade to ADSL2+. Looks like I need to choose a new Plusnet product to do that.

If I'm right in my thinking, an ADSL2+ modem router should be backwards compatible to ADSL, meaning it could cope with either?

You do not need to choose a new product, they are eventually switching everyone over to ADSL2+, however you can stay on your current product and ask to be changed over now by raising a ticket or as they like to put it 'opening a question'.

There is list of routers that they say are compatible with ADSL2+, bear in mind that the list is now over twelve months old and most modern routers should be compatible.

http://community.plus.net/library/hardware/adsl2-har...

Edited by cajef (Wed 05-Jan-11 10:29:43)

In reply to a post by TLM:

I'm using an ancient Speedtouch 330, which ironically is delivering better & more stable performance than when I tried to persevere with the Netgear.

Your Speedtouch (I believe) is using a Broadcom chipset which may explain why it's more stable than your Netgear. Some Netgear's have Broadcom chipsets but not all of them.So don't rule out Netgear yet - i.e. The DGN2000 is very popular (also Broadcom chipset).

I'm a big Broadcom chipset fan as they've really helped me on my line.
I'm using a Speedtouch 585v6 but also have a Netgear DG834GT which performs very similarly.

I know Netgear has a good reputation - which is why I have favoured it in the past.

It's just that my practical experience of them hasn't been very positive so far. Actually, it never occurred to me, until this discussion, that my problems with "instability" might have begun roughly when the switch to 21CN occurred.

As I eventually isolated it to a "hardware problem", which went away when I reverted to the Speedtouch router and a "wired" connection, I concluded the Netgear had simply packed up. I never really considered whether there had been some other change it couldn't cope with very well.

In reply to a post by TLM:

I'm using an ancient Speedtouch 330

The Speedtouch 330 is only a USB modem, not an ADSL router. It is usually limited to 4 Meg unless you install some USB Modem Optimiser software.

Get your router stats from the Netgear temporarily to help the enquirers.

I've checked my records, and find that I have been migrated to 21CN, but am still on ADSL at the moment, with the potential to upgrade to ADSL2+.

You could find that ADSL2+ might not be of any benefit/use on your line with a high attenuation figure indicating a long line. In fact the connection could prove to be unstable with even a decrease in sync rate. ADSL2 might be more stable but until you try it who knows.

A graph showing speed gained plotted against attenuation for the two modes i.e. ADSL and ADSL2+

I take it that the ADSL connection you are using just now is fine, yes?

Most routers (newish with updated firmware) will be suitable for use with ADSL2 and ADSL2+ as well as ADSL.

Similar re. backwards compatible, with draft n routers and the other wireless standards.



Harry

OK, slightly against my better judgment, I've gone for the DGN2200, which I think is just the newer model in the line (also Broadcom - I hope!)

I noticed it has quite mixed reviews, with some saying it's excellent, and very reliable, and others that it's temperamental and keeps dropping the connection - exactly my previous experience with Netgear.

I'm determined I won't put up with it if it happens again. I should have sent the last one back, but partly out of apathy, and partly because it took me so long to realise the problem was my router, I just wrote it off as one of those things.

But now I'm on the lookout for this problem, and know the connection is stable if I'm running wired, I won't hesitate to make a fuss if the new one starts playing silly beggars.

A few posts (other forums, not here) link the problem to overheating. I think this is a possibility, because the last one did run hot, but I did not like to stand it on end, on the feet provided, as it was too easily knocked over.

But anyway, we'll see. I've ordered it from Amazon, so probably won't get it 'til Monday or Tuesday, and try the install next weekend.

I don't like to do stuff like that on a work day, just in case I screw up, and leave myself with no internet connection!

T.

Thanks anyway, but the speed limitation is definitely not the kit.

BT estimate I can only get 3Mbps on this line (only recently revised upwards from 1!) OK, I know that's only an estimate, and not really very technical, but as I'm already achieving in excess of it, I haven't much grounds for complaint.

I might be able to squeeze a bit more out of it with different kit, but there aren't going to be any miracles here - a long line is a long line.

Ignore setup CDs Perhaps use a wizard, but in general manual setup is safer. You don't get anything done that you don't want (on your PC) if you stay away from CDs.

It looks like the DGN2200 is also Broadcom
I'm only familiar with the DGN2000 - this runs hot, so I recommend using the feet to keep it vertical (I know you've mentioned this).

The only issue i've seen with early DGN2000's is problems with the LAN ports failing - which I think is related to the heat. The wireless is unaffected but the LAN ports start to deteriorate in performance - you could think you have normal internet throughput issues! Swapping to another port is an easy way to see if you are having this issue - unless they all fail.

As you don't have to change anything on your PC there's no issue with messing up your internet connection. Just put your current router back in place if things go pear-shaped. All you need to do is change the login/password via a browser and you should be good to go...

In reply to a post by b4dger:

~snip~
As you don't have to change anything on your PC there's no issue with messing up your internet connection. Just put your current router back in place if things go pear-shaped. All you need to do is change the login/password via a browser and you should be good to go...

I beg to differ. The OP is currently using a Speedtouch 330 USB modem which appears to Windows as a dial-up connection. So Internet Explorer and other applications may need a config change from something like "Always dial my default connection" to "Never dial a connection".

It already looks for a wireless network though, and says there isn't one. I assume, if there were one, it would see it and attempt to connect to it?

Yep, that's true - I forgot he was using a USB modem and not a router
Still they are quite minor changes.

she

Thank you!

I'm slightly more sensitive about that distinction than about whether I'm using a USB modem or not.

I'm confident you'll get a much better sync using a router rather than the frog.

OK, new router has been delivered, setup has gone OK.

Only two slight hitches. One was when I couldn't remember my FULL Plusnet username (only the shortname), but that was easlily looked up.

And the second was that I couldn't see any wireless networks, initially. Unknown to me, there was a software switch, as well as a hardware switch, to turn wireless ON, so although the h/w switch was on, the s/w one wasn't.

As soon as I'd cottoned onto this, and set the s/w switch to ON as well, I had no trouble "seeing" and connecting to the router.

I didn't have to cry for help this time, so either I'm getting better at this (finally), or installation is getting simpler. Next step is to see if I can get my new iPad fired-up and connected to it as well!

The bad news is there's no appreciable improvement in speed (just done a TBB speedtest), so to all those who denigrated the "frog", it looks as if it was doing pretty well, in the circumstances. Replacement hasn't made a marked difference, but I never thought it would on this line.

On the plus side, if the new Netgear ever goes down, and I'm forced to revert to the frog, I won't see a marked degradation in performance.

T.

That's good.

However, you should have been comparing connection speed, not download speed. An increase in connection speed can take up to 5 days to result in a download speed rise.

If you run a BT Performance test and post the results as far as the end of the numbers, then we can tell you if you have more to come.

One thing at a time. I'm now up and running with the iPad, and posting wirelessly from that as well. So I've proved I can have more than one device on there at once. So far, so good. I'm quite liking the layout on Safari. Hasn't taken me long to find my usual haunts and get posting.

In reply to a post by TLM:

The bad news is there's no appreciable improvement in speed (just done a TBB speedtest), so to all those who denigrated the "frog", it looks as if it was doing pretty well, in the circumstances. Replacement hasn't made a marked difference, but I never thought it would on this line.

If only it was that simple. Unfortunately you have to persuade BT's profiling system to give you more speed - it's not like LLU where you always connect as fast as you can, BT wants to use your bandwidth for BT Vision, so tries not to let you have too much.

So, we will be getting you posting whilst in te bath with a bottle of wine, searching the garden for your glasses, when in bed with a cold &c &c.