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Standard User bbawden
(newbie) Sun 09-Jan-11 17:20:20
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New router made internet slow


[link to this post]
 
Hope this is the right forum

I had a BT Homehub, but due to Black Ops on PS3 not being able to set the NAT type correctly, I just bought a Netgear DGN3500.

On the homehub, I was getting between 6-10 Mbps on speedtest.net. Since setting up the Netgear it's 0.75 Mbps or thereabouts.

Oddly, in the router status, it has the downstream connection speed as 4.5 Mbps.

I hope this is just a setting I need to adjust.

Please help.

Thanks,
Ben
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 09-Jan-11 17:24:11
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: bbawden] [link to this post]
 
Did you do a lot of reconnections close together when installing the Netgear? Please can you run a BT Performance Test and post the full results up to the end of the Upstream results.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 09-Jan-11 17:24:35)

Standard User bbawden
(newbie) Sun 09-Jan-11 19:03:08
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Did you do a lot of reconnections close together when installing the Netgear?


Do you mean connecting to the router, or connecting to BT Broadband? I don't think so, but it's possible.

Shortly I'll also reconnect the homehub to confirm that speeds are good with that router.

Results of test:

Test1 comprises of two tests

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
582 Kbps

0 Kbps 1000 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 582 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 400-1000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :4524 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 888 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 750 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 11.52:22.9:65.58 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
723 Kbps

0 Kbps 888 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 723 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 888 Kbps


We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.
It is possible that any problem you are currently, or had previously experienced may have been caused by traffic congestion on the Internet or by the server you were accessing responding slowly.
If you continue to encounter a problem with a specific server, please contact the administrator of that server in the first instance


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Standard User andyboygsi
(member) Sun 09-Jan-11 21:00:59
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: bbawden] [link to this post]
 
we now need your router stats

attenuation and noise margin etc

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.

BTBroadband
Standard User andyboygsi
(member) Sun 09-Jan-11 21:08:56
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: andyboygsi] [link to this post]
 
look kinda like this

Line state Connected
Connection time 1 day, 7:58:37
Downstream 4,704 Kbps
Upstream 448 Kbps
ADSL settings
VPI/VCI 0/38
Type PPPoA
Modulation ITU-T G.992.1
Latency type Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up) 7.6 dB / 20.0 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up) 49.0 dB / 26.0 dB
Output power (Down/Up) 19.7 dBm / 12.1 dBm
Loss of Framing (Local) 0
Loss of Signal (Local) 3
Loss of Power (Local) 0
FEC Errors (Down/Up) 124991 / 9
CRC Errors (Down/Up) 498 / 2147480000
HEC Errors (Down/Up) nil / 4
Error Seconds (Local) 799

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.

BTBroadband
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 09-Jan-11 21:12:41
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: bbawden] [link to this post]
 
IP Profile for your line is - 750 Kbps


therein lies the problem. Leave it powered off for half an hour, in case you got overlooked, otherwise you may have to wait a day or two for it to restore.

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User bbawden
(newbie) Sun 09-Jan-11 22:40:21
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Thanks. What does this mean? Is it just a coincidence that it happened at the same time as I changed the router?

You're saying I should leave the router off completely for a while, yes?

If it doesn't come back up to speed, it's a BT problem, right?
Standard User Sandgrounder
(knowledge is power) Sun 09-Jan-11 23:23:52
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: bbawden] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bbawden:
Thanks. What does this mean? Is it just a coincidence that it happened at the same time as I changed the router?
Probably not. - The exchange has seen your line as troublesome. frown

You're saying I should leave the router off completely for a while, yes?
Yes - overnight if you do not need it on.

If it doesn't come back up to speed, it's a BT problem, right?
It will come back smile - may take a day or two.



Line One:- Zen - DrayTek Vigor 2600VG
Line Two:- EntaNet - DrayTek Vigor 2600
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 09-Jan-11 23:34:03
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: bbawden] [link to this post]
 
The IP Profile has been mentioned. You can see it is at 750kbps. That means within a couple of days or so beforehand you had a connection speed of between 864kbps and 1120kbps.

The IP Profile is what determines your maximum download speed. It is set by your connection speed but with a variable time lag.

It can take a while to rise to the 3500kbps that your 4524 connection warrants.

See this page for full details of how it works.

Also on that site read about Noise Margins and the BT DLM. You have upset it!

As andyboygsi says, we need to see the full line stats, particularly the speeds, attenuations and noise margins. Those will tell us what speed you should be able to connect at, and give us more info about much you have upset the DLM. That's what my question about lots of reconnections in a short time was about.

Best to do a single reconnection in daylight and get the stats then. See if the method for other Netgears at the bottom of my Tweaking page works, but only try the info --stats one, not the configure --snr stuff! Messing with the SNR at this stage could make things far worse.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 09-Jan-11 23:36:35)

Standard User bbawden
(newbie) Mon 10-Jan-11 08:36:22
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for your help, @RobertoS and @Sandgrounder.

I switched the router off completely last night around 22:00
I'm leaving it off until I get back from work tonight at about 17:30 and will check it then.

If I still have problems I'll find the stats on noise and attenuation.

One thing that I'm a bit confused on. You said above that I should get download speeds of 3500kbps or thereabouts.
Before I was definitely getting a speed on speedtest.net of 8000 - 10000 kbps

Thanks again, this has been quite interesting in between the frustration!

Edited by bbawden (Mon 10-Jan-11 08:39:26)

Standard User bbawden
(newbie) Mon 10-Jan-11 08:40:38
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: bbawden] [link to this post]
 
Oh and BTW, I reconnected my homehub yesterday evening, and can confirm that it also has the same slow download speeds.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 10-Jan-11 10:35:43
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: bbawden] [link to this post]
 
It will have.

Once you find the line stats, taken immediately after a reconnection, I think we will find it is at least 12dB. That will be because of whatever happened.

Sorting that is another story, as you will see or have seen on my website, in the Troubleshooting section >> high noise margin.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User bbawden
(newbie) Mon 10-Jan-11 11:13:19
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks. I'll connect when I get home, and report back the noise stats.
Standard User bbawden
(newbie) Mon 10-Jan-11 18:12:42
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Hi.

So the router has been turned off for 20 hours or so. I just reconnected, and same poor connection speed.

In the router status, I can see the following stats:
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4525 kbps 888 kbps
Line Attenuation 21.0 db 8.4 db
Noise Margin 16.1 db 15.6 db

RouterStats Lite is showing the same noise margin.

Is this something that will just fix itself over the next few days, or do I have to contact BT?
Standard User andyboygsi
(member) Mon 10-Jan-11 20:06:33
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: bbawden] [link to this post]
 
looks very much like you have a problemo

give it time and robertos and the rest of the hit squad will pass on there advice

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.

BTBroadband
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 10-Jan-11 20:09:51
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: bbawden] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by bbawden:
Hi.

So the router has been turned off for 20 hours or so. I just reconnected, and same poor connection speed.

In the router status, I can see the following stats:
ADSL Link	Downstream 	Upstream
Connection Speed	4525 kbps	888 kbps
Line Attenuation	21.0 db		8.4 db
Noise Margin	16.1 db		15.6 db
RouterStats Lite is showing the same noise margin.

Is this something that will just fix itself over the next few days, or do I have to contact BT?
There you can see the downstream noise margin was 15dB or 18dB at the time you connected. Assuming BT is your ISP, from the fact you have a Home Hub, if you are lucky you will be able to get them to do an SNR Reset.

That will cure the low speed within a 2-3 days of them doing it. (It causes a new 10-day training period like you had originally).

If you are not lucky and they won't do one for you, then see Section 4 of this page.

Each 3dB above 6dB costs you at least 500kbps and possibly 1200kbps. SO that's where your long-term speed has gone. The short-term is of course controlled by the IP Profile which I hope you know about by now.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User bbawden
(newbie) Mon 10-Jan-11 21:05:56
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.

I'll ring BT in the morning, and see if they can do a SNR reset for me.
Standard User andyboygsi
(member) Mon 10-Jan-11 21:41:41
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
what would have caused it to be at this level in the first place

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.

BTBroadband
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 10-Jan-11 21:52:03
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: andyboygsi] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by andyboygsi:
what would have caused it to be at this level in the first place
Probably lots of reconnections and messing around in a short period when he was trying to get going with his Netgear. Been there - done that, myself.

The trigger for at least a single step rise in target noise margin is 10 times in an hour, but it does seem to make bigger jumps in most cases. Goodness knows what actually happened. Only the OP may have any idea, but was almost certainly ignorant of this effect at the time, and has no chance now of remembering.

If the line was unstable now then we would need to be looking at the ongoing reason. But it seems to be stable, just the DLM settings messed up.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User bbawden
(newbie) Wed 12-Jan-11 12:02:14
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yeah, I think that's it. I was changing the settings a lot and it's quite possible that the router reconnected 10 times in an hour.

I spoke to a very helpful person from BT who obviously knew what they were talking about, and more importantly knew that I knew what I was talking about. (there's nothing more frustrating than you knowing the problem is A, but the support making you try solutions B-F first!)

So they triggered a DNR reset on my line, and reset the training period. This was about 8pm last night. They said I should see the noise margin start to decrease, but it may take 10 days for the line to stabilise back to where it was.

I'm looking now, and the noise margin is still up at 18db. Should I have seen a decrease yet? Do I need to do something at my end, or just be patient?
Standard User bbawden
(newbie) Wed 12-Jan-11 12:07:54
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: bbawden] [link to this post]
 
Oh, and while I was at it, I turned my old BT HomeHub into a wireless access point using this guide - took me about 10 mins.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 12-Jan-11 12:17:10
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: bbawden] [link to this post]
 
They will have done a request for a reset, so it should actually happen today or tomorrow. It should cause a re-sync of the line.

If it hasn't happened by about 3pm there isn't any harm in doing a single reconnection yourself.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User bbawden
(newbie) Wed 12-Jan-11 12:19:15
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks. It's difficult to be patient!

Thanks again for your excellent help and advice.
Standard User bbawden
(newbie) Wed 12-Jan-11 16:45:11
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Would you expect a sudden drop in the noise margin, or for it to gradually come down?
It was 18db at about 13:00, and it's currently 16db.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Wed 12-Jan-11 16:53:41
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: bbawden] [link to this post]
 
When the reset is activated the margin goes straight down to 6dB and stays put until any line instability/noise causes the DLM to increase it.

Harry
Standard User bbawden
(newbie) Thu 13-Jan-11 14:45:41
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Hi. Well it turns out that they didn't do it over the phone as I had thought.
The next level up of technical support rang me yesterday evening to try some more tests. I explained over and over that all that was required was a DNR reset. But they insisted on sending an engineer anyway who came today.

He did the DNR reset, and straight away my speed was back up to 8-10Mbps.
He said I should get up to 15 or 16Mbps when the line settles down.

I just want to say thanks for all your advice and help, everyone who commented, and particularly RobertoS.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 13-Jan-11 15:05:37
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: bbawden] [link to this post]
 
smile
You were right though, no need for an engineer. So they wasted his time.

If you can run that BT Performance Test again, link in my first post, the results from that would be interesting.

Which router are you using? If it's the one you can get the stats from then those would be good to see as well, but don't go swapping routers at this stage if you can't get stats from the one you are on.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User andyboygsi
(member) Thu 13-Jan-11 20:31:35
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Re: New router made internet slow


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
smile
You were right though, no need for an engineer. So they wasted his time.

If you can run that BT Performance Test again, link in my first post, the results from that would be interesting.

Which router are you using? If it's the one you can get the stats from then those would be good to see as well, but don't go swapping routers at this stage if you can't get stats from the one you are on.


funny point you make here. with the sfi you see strange things, what may have happened is wholesale wanted an engineer in the exchange when they did this. it may have been a card wide issue and for some reason they don't like resetting the card blind.

i see it very often, no sync/poor speeds and what cures it is resetting the whole card, i would have though it would have been easy to do minus the engineer, but hey who its an easy fault if you get it

these comments are my own and in no way represent any company that i may or may not be linked too.

BTBroadband
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