Strange addresses showing up without logging into ISP

When an adsl modem is connected up to a phone line with adsl, it quickly establishes sync, sync light is lit.

Then it is set in interface to automatically check the adsl type of connection - LLC, VCMUX, PPOA/E - what happens is that after a short while it says PPOE/LLC and then without providing login details it shows this -

IP address 172.16.67.78

gateway 81.146.177.7

dns 62.6.38.125

and the light meaning connected to internet is lit, but doesn't blink as would be case with data transfer. In fact nothing can be done, ping trace etc.

But why is this occuring?

172.16.67.78 is in one of the three private LAN address ranges. (so OK)

81.146.177.7 shows the ISP as being BT. (and is, presumably, a BT gateway)

62.6.38.125 confirms the ISP as BT (and is a BT DNS server)

So, all seem valid, so far.

yes I know about the 172 private range. And I looked at what the others were.

They may be valid in themselves, but why are they showing up?

The adsl provider is not BT.

Is there some crossed line in the exchange?

There have been recent problems when the normal router is used, sync losses, low speed, timeouts of DNS lookup.

This was a different modem tried to see what wqs going on. Freshly reset to its new defaults.

I guess the way it determines the type of connection is by trying them, and this results in it getting the info shown. A BT wholesale circuit, presumably.

The adsl provider is not BT.

So who is?

How long since it went wrong?

Your adsl login settings are correct aren't they?

Sounds like some form of walled garden.

There are _no_ login details. The adsl modem is at reset default. It's only job is to see what the stats are without trying to actually login to the ISP and somehow it ends up showing that info I described.

The sync is established. The page on the modem for details has a "wizard" to check what type of adsl as I said. It tries 8/35 0/38 VCMUX, LLc PPOE/A.

After some seconds when it says that PPPOE/LLC is correct the address details appear.

I'm intrigued to know why its front end should be given a private non-internet address but with gateways and dns related to BT.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

I guess the way it determines the type of connection is by trying them, and this results in it getting the info shown. A BT wholesale circuit, presumably.

I don't know if there's a catch22, egg/chicken thing here

But, should this happen? If there's a circuit at the exchange that somehow is getting to a BT junction before it goes to the proper ISP's junction. I don't know enough about tech to explain that properly. I think that they are all fed by BT at major hubs somewhere down south but what's a t the exchange should be somewhat different, yes no!

something to do with authentication maybe. Does it matter, is it important or is this just about being curious ?

PPP sessions are first authenticated by BT to see if its the right domain then passed to the ISP for full authentication.

I'm intrigued to know why its front end should be given a private non-internet address but with gateways and dns related to BT.

the connection is provided by BT, you didn't authenticate for an internet service. Sort of explains both.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Its only job is to see what the stats are without trying to actually login to the ISP and somehow it ends up showing that info I described.

If you don't authenticate with your ISP then the only relevant figures you can get are the connection stats giving your sync with the exchange.

Those IP addys etc. you quote are meaningless. But, altho' you have so far refused to state your ISP when asked, I guess you are on a BT IPStream ISP and so it makes sense that those addys belong to BT, since BT is unable to connect you with your ISP as you failed to give them your true authentication details.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

...what happens is that after a short while it says PPOE/LLC and then without providing login details it shows this -

IP address 172.16.67.78

...But why is this occuring?

I believe that your experience is a variation on a fairly common issue;

Here
Mentioned here
Here
Mentioned here
Here
Mentioned here

The problem only appears to occur on BT Wholesale supplied services.

The solution is to move to BE or O2 LLU (possibly other) services.

JC

yarwell wrote

PPP sessions are first authenticated by BT to see if its the right domain then passed to the ISP for full authentication.

the connection is provided by BT, you didn't authenticate for an internet service. Sort of explains both.

xrayspex wrote

If you don't authenticate with your ISP then the only relevant figures you can get are the connection stats giving your sync with the exchange.

Those IP addys etc. you quote are meaningless. But, altho' you have so far refused to state your ISP when asked, I guess you are on a BT IPStream ISP and so it makes sense that those addys belong to BT, since BT is unable to connect you with your ISP as you failed to give them your true authentication details.

In relation to both. My neighbour who has phone and broadband from BT, I tried the setup I have with them. It does _not_ show the addresses I gave earlier. And it gives much the same quality of line details though a bit better than mine.

Do I take it that the implication given about BT Wholesale applies to an ISP who gets a bundle from BT and so the customer might get the an

sorry, finger trouble.


Do I take it that the implication given about BT Wholesale applies to an ISP who gets a bundle from BT, or appears under a kind of umbrella sub-customer of BT services, and so the customer might get the anomaly I've seen.

But this would not apply to BT _itself_, meaning they and their customers are directly involved and not part of "BT Wholesale"?

And I had seen a couple of those referenced Forum posts before starting all this, they didn't provide much in the way of help.

a different router may not do this "auto detect" stuff, which I never use anyway.

BT Wholesale provide services to many users.

I'm failing to see why this is a "problem" in any way ? you're looking at data from a half set up router, finish the job and it'll go away.

If I recall correctly, when I last had a BT Ipstream based connection with an ISP whose radius server was regularly failing, then BT's BRAS or whatever, would eventually connect you to a BT network and when you tried to view any web page, a BT service page informing you that either your ISP's radius server was down, or the authentication details were invalid would be displayed.

Edited by AbandonShip (Wed 19-Jan-11 00:12:23)

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Do I take it that the implication given about BT Wholesale applies to an ISP who gets a bundle from BT, or appears under a kind of umbrella sub-customer of BT services, and so the customer might get the anomaly I've seen.

Exactly, that's my theory!

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

But this would not apply to BT _itself_,

Again it fits my theory. BT itself, as an ISP, would not need or have another ISP to connect to and so would not be failing an authentication.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

meaning they and their customers are directly involved and not part of "BT Wholesale"?

Dunno about this bit. BTR's BT Broadband would still be a customer of BTW.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Do I take it that the implication given about BT Wholesale applies to an ISP who gets a bundle from BT, or appears under a kind of umbrella sub-customer of BT services, and so the customer might get the anomaly I've seen.

Exactly, that's my theory!

You are right in principle, but with the Good ISPs (like Zen), it just never happens.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

But this would not apply to BT _itself_,

Again it fits my theory. BT itself, as an ISP, would not need or have another ISP to connect to and so would not be failing an authentication.

Not quite right this time - BT Retail are treated just like the other ISPs (Zen, Entanet, etc)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

meaning they and their customers are directly involved and not part of "BT Wholesale"?

Dunno about this bit. BTR's BT Broadband would still be a customer of BTW.

BT Retail buy their services from BT Wholsale just as the others. do

Appreciate the replies and thank you.

I'd still like to know about a couple of the points though.

The modem will give the dhcp LAN address 192.168.0.2 to the pc connected to it used for browsing the setup pages, and say its gateway is 192.168.0.1. When it is run on my line as described earlier and getting those addresses, the LAN side changes from 192.168 to the 172.16 and the gateway to the 81.146. as indicated on the PC's net conncection info. And given that it keeps the 192.168 and no strange addresses on my neighbour's line, should that indicate anything?

When I mentioned it settling on PPPOE/LLC as the adsl, that is incorrect in that the actual should be PPPOA/VCMUX.