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Standard User gouledw
(newbie) Sat 25-Jun-11 23:06:28
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Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[link to this post]
 
Just wanted to know before I make a purchase, is the 7700N got the same chipset as the 7800N which I hear so many fabulous things about.

Kind Regards
Edd
Standard User baby_frogmella
(committed) Sat 25-Jun-11 23:39:51
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: gouledw] [link to this post]
 
I was under the impression that the 7700N also used the Broadcom 6358 chipset (used in 7800N) however this isn't true. The 7700N uses Broadcom 6328 which might not be as good as the 6358 but i don't think it will be poor as generally speaking most Broadcom chipset based routers perform very well.
http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/bc/hardware/?action=h_vie...

In a nutshell, the 7700N is a good entry level router for a simple home setup but if you want something more powerful (more RAM) with more features, then the 7800N is the one to go for.
http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/bc/hardware/?action=h_vie...

TalkTalk Plus LLU ADSL2+ connected @ 17612/1019 kbps
Attenuation 27db down / 9db up
Noise Margin 3.3 db down / 12db up
Powered by Billion BiPAC 7800N

Edited by baby_frogmella (Sat 25-Jun-11 23:47:04)

Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Sun 26-Jun-11 01:38:33
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
+1

The 7700N is completely different to the 7800N. For the testing I have done so far, both hold a line set to 1db very well.

I left the 7700N connected on Friday and it has not dropped as yet, but the 7800N could manage weeks without a drop, so it'll take a while for me to really say how good the cheaper 7700N is.

Matt

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uno Broadband
t: 0808 221 8642
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Standard User gouledw
(newbie) Sun 26-Jun-11 09:44:34
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Hi Uno, what I wanna know is what is the difference in sync speed? Is there a major noticable difference? Because at the moment on a 68dB line we sync at 2692kbps with an SNR of 6 on a BT Business Hub (faulty).
Standard User idb
(committed) Sun 26-Jun-11 10:00:04
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: gouledw] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gouledw:
Hi Uno, what I wanna know is what is the difference in sync speed?
I think that's a bit dependent on the line, different routers will cope with different line conditions in different ways, but, FWIW, my 7700N syncs at a slightly lower speed than my 2700HGV used to. Still very acceptable though, and seemingly quite stable.

Currently 44.5 attenuation, SNR of 0.9 and a sync of 7681 (ADSL2+)

Ian

EDIT. Ooops, just noticed you are talking about 7800 v 7700. Ignore me please :=)

Edited by idb (Sun 26-Jun-11 10:01:36)

Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Sun 26-Jun-11 17:18:25
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
It's probably worth pointing out that setting a 1db Target SNR margin will only be ok for those on nice stable/quiet/short lines!

Unless there's some magic in play here tongue

Anonymous
(Unregistered)Sun 26-Jun-11 18:20:45
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by b4dger:
It's probably worth pointing out that setting a 1db Target SNR margin will only be ok for those on nice stable/quiet/short lines!

Unless there's some magic in play here tongue
Well don't know about only short, depends on what you mean by short really, my line isn't short in my opinion,nor do i consider it to be long, ( att of 29db ADSL2 +) My ds margin is set to 1db Isp is be* Fast path using a DG834 Dgteam fw, all is stable with a 2MB/S throughput until a local business starts up, not my line at fault ,but some one else's line or what they have connected to it
Standard User gouledw
(newbie) Sun 26-Jun-11 19:09:44
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: idb] [link to this post]
 
Put in an order for it today, is there anyway of getting the SNR tweaked without telnetting it? I saw something that said you can tweak it from the firmware like on the 7800N... Can anyone shed any light? laugh
Standard User baby_frogmella
(committed) Sun 26-Jun-11 20:44:41
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: gouledw] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gouledw:
Put in an order for it today, is there anyway of getting the SNR tweaked without telnetting it? I saw something that said you can tweak it from the firmware like on the 7800N... Can anyone shed any light? laugh


No, you can't tweak the SNR from the firmware. However you can use the DMT tool v8.07 tool to adjust SNR in Windows:

http://www.2cent.de/dmt/v8/dmt_redux.zip

(make sure Telnet is enabled for DMT tool to work)

TalkTalk Plus LLU ADSL2+ connected @ 17612/1019 kbps
Attenuation 27db down / 9db up
Noise Margin 3.3 db down / 12db up
Powered by Billion BiPAC 7800N

Edited by baby_frogmella (Sun 26-Jun-11 20:56:40)

Standard User hawkhead
(newbie) Mon 27-Jun-11 00:13:14
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
The 7800N has:

Gigabit LAN ports
EWAN port
IPv6 Support
Better firmware
Better QoS
Detachable antennas
Third antenna
Different Wireless Chipset
7800N has Ralink wireless, whereas the 7700N has Broadcom.
Bigger NAT table
VPN & other features

and a tweaked SNR will survive a reboot
Standard User pipexbob
(newbie) Mon 27-Jun-11 08:53:31
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Hi. On the 7800n if you navigate to http://{normal ip address of router}/snr.cgi this enables you to do a tweak. Be careful of the values you put in here. I saw a table at the Spaldwick village site telling you how to tweak it, but I never tried...http://www.spaldwick.com/broadband/billion-7800n

I have a 7800n but it is currently being trained on ADSL2+, so it would be pointless for me to quote figures from it..

Bob (now with Plusnet NOT Pipex)
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Mon 27-Jun-11 10:52:21
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Any line under around 40db Attenuation is nice and short to me smile




You're also lucky not to have to worry about BT's crazy line management! wink

Edited by b4dger (Mon 27-Jun-11 10:54:16)

Standard User baby_frogmella
(committed) Mon 27-Jun-11 13:37:46
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: pipexbob] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by pipexbob:
Hi. On the 7800n if you navigate to http://{normal ip address of router}/snr.cgi this enables you to do a tweak. Be careful of the values you put in here. I saw a table at the Spaldwick village site telling you how to tweak it, but I never tried...http://www.spaldwick.com/broadband/billion-7800n

I have a 7800n but it is currently being trained on ADSL2+, so it would be pointless for me to quote figures from it..

Bob (now with Plusnet NOT Pipex)


The OP was asking if you could alter the SNR through the software on the 7700N which you can't frown

TalkTalk Plus LLU ADSL2+ connected @ 17612/1019 kbps
Attenuation 27db down / 9db up
Noise Margin 3.3 db down / 12db up
Powered by Billion BiPAC 7800N
Standard User gyre
(committed) Mon 27-Jun-11 16:23:53
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Depends on what you mean by software. You can't yet seem to do it from the built in web server on the 7700n, but you can do it from the built in telnet server. And it survives a reboot if you've saved your adsl profile.

I do someting like this:

telnet 192.168.1.254
adsl configure --snr 30
adsl config --save
quit

Now, there might well be a hidden web page which allows this instead of telnet. I've just not found it yet smile

-- gyre --

plusnet via Draytek Vigor 2920 and Billion BiPAC 7700N (bridged)
Standard User gouledw
(newbie) Mon 27-Jun-11 16:59:14
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: gyre] [link to this post]
 
So for example, and thanks gyre and all the other's for the advice, but what I was thinking is my line is currently set at an SNR of 9dB because our current router keeps resetting so it increased it. And Im gonna get it to 6dB using my contact in BT, would it hold as the SNR usually drops to 3dB in the evening.
Standard User gyre
(committed) Mon 27-Jun-11 17:29:20
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: gouledw] [link to this post]
 
If you're saying that with your current router, your line drops from 9dB to 3dB in the evening... that's a pretty huge drop.

I've seen 2 or 3dB, but not usually 6dB of drop.

If you already have a 7700N, you can experiment for yourself before your BT contact gives you a target snr margin of 6dB, by tweaking it during the day using telnet until you get 6dB, then leaving it and checking periodically what the margin is in the evening.

On my line, I have a target snr margin of 9dB, I've tweaked it down to about 5.5dB and it hasn't dropped below 4.5dB yet at any time of the day. But then, everybody's lines are different.

-- gyre --

plusnet via Draytek Vigor 2920 and Billion BiPAC 7700N (bridged)
Standard User gouledw
(newbie) Mon 27-Jun-11 17:41:20
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: gyre] [link to this post]
 
On my line because our Business Hub is faulty, (the lightning did it! blush ) it keeps resetting and now we have a good line speed, the DLM decided to increase the SNR to 9dB frown I used to get a sync of 2692 and now I only get just over 2100.

Broadband Status
VPI: 0
VCI: 38
Broadband Negotiated Mode: G.DMT Annex A
Connection Status: CONNECTED
Speed (down/up): 2112 Kbps/448 Kbps
Number of Retrains: 0
Number of Retrains Elapsed Time: 0H: 00M: 00S
SNR Margin (Downstream/Upstream): 9.0 dB/12.0 dB
Attenuation (Downstream/Upstream): 63.0 dB/31.5 dB
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Fri 29-Jul-11 19:13:19
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: gyre] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by gyre:
Depends on what you mean by software. You can't yet seem to do it from the built in web server on the 7700n, but you can do it from the built in telnet server. And it survives a reboot if you've saved your adsl profile.

I do someting like this:

telnet 192.168.1.254
adsl configure --snr 30
adsl config --save <<<< Invalid command
quit

Now, there might well be a hidden web page which allows this instead of telnet. I've just not found it yet smile

-- gyre --
Standard User gyre
(committed) Fri 29-Jul-11 19:25:28
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Sorry, brain faster than fingers. Try:

adsl profile --save

smile

-- gyre --

plusnet via Draytek Vigor 2920 and Billion BiPAC 7700N (bridged)
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Fri 29-Jul-11 20:06:42
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: gyre] [link to this post]
 
Do you know how to set annex-l via telnet?

it seems if you save the profile after setting the snr value it re-enables all the other modulation types.
Standard User gyre
(committed) Tue 02-Aug-11 11:50:07
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Re: Billion 7700N vs 7800N


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
Yup, I noticed that after setting the target snr value, some other values reverted to their defaults.

I tend to specify exactly what I want on one command. e.g.:

adsl configure --mod 2 --trellis on --snr 30 --bitswap on

If you just type adsl, you'll get a list of the options to all the commands, including configure.

-- gyre --

plusnet via Draytek Vigor 2920 and Billion BiPAC 7700N (bridged)
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