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Standard User paul_liverpoolfc
(newbie) Mon 19-Dec-11 11:07:35
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Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[link to this post]
 
Since I bought my Billion 7800N router last month (just after moving over to Vivaciti on LLU broadband), I've been playing around with the router options (especially the SNR values) but have yet to find my optimal settings.

I'd be grateful if someone could advise me on the best settings for me. I've tried about 50 different SNR values and some give a higher sync speed but then give slower speeds in speed tests (and during test file downloads from Think Broadband and Zen Internet).


My stats (on the default SNR of -1) are:

Upstream 1020
Downstream 5325
SNR Margin(Upstream) 6.2
SNR Margin(Downstream) 6.2
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 25.0
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 44.5


The options I currently have selected are:

Software Version: 1.06d
Modulator: ADSL2 and ADSL2+
ADSL Mode: Annex L


Thanks.

Paul

GPRS > 3G > Wanadoo 1MB 2GB/month > Zen Internet 3MB 50GB/month > Vivaciti 5MB 100GB/month
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 19-Dec-11 14:47:10
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: paul_liverpoolfc] [link to this post]
 
Line is running on ADSL2 (the Annex L bit) G.992.3 is the usual notation.

You are performing a little slower than I would expect i.e. sync speed is low for 44dB attenuation. What phone wiring/sockets do you have?

Can you grab the stats from the test socket on the master socket, when using this, no other phone sockets in the house should work. If they do, then you have funky wiring that will not be helping.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User paul_liverpoolfc
(newbie) Mon 19-Dec-11 15:15:16
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the reply.

I'll try the modem cable in the test socket and report back.

I see that, according to the Kitz site, my modem should be syncing at around 7552 kbps for my attenuation.

We've got a BT logo phone socket in the hall, which my router is connected to via a micro-filter.

I'm not sure how it's wired behind the socket but I've heard about the removing wires 2 and 4 thing.

I've been thinking about replacing the micro-filter with an adslNation faceplate but I guess it's best to see how things are from the test socket first.

GPRS > 3G > Wanadoo 1MB 2GB/month > Zen Internet 3MB 50GB/month > Vivaciti 5MB 100GB/month


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Standard User paul_liverpoolfc
(newbie) Mon 19-Dec-11 16:28:38
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: paul_liverpoolfc] [link to this post]
 
As I haven't got a BT plug modem cable, I've put the micro-filter into the test socket and these are the stats now without a modem reboot:

Upstream 980
Downstream 5372 (was 5325)
SNR Margin(Upstream) 6.1
SNR Margin(Downstream) 5.9 (was 6.2)
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 25.2
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 45.0 (was 44.5)


Do I need to do further testing with a modem cable directly in the test socket?

GPRS > 3G > Wanadoo 1MB 2GB/month > Zen Internet 3MB 50GB/month > Vivaciti 5MB 100GB/month
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 19-Dec-11 16:40:48
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: paul_liverpoolfc] [link to this post]
 
So socket looked like this, and you plugged the microfilter into the phone socket? Just have to check. The stats are not signficantly different, did you try a phone in the other sockets around the house to ensure they were not working? BTW the wire to remove would be the one on pin 3. You have to have pins 2 and 5 connected, 4 is optional. Having pin 3 connected creates an imbalance, allowing noise to be easily picked up.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User paul_liverpoolfc
(newbie) Mon 19-Dec-11 17:21:47
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Yes - that's the phone socket (but we've still got the case on the front section) and the micro-filter went directly into the test socket.

I should've mentioned that we've only got one active phone socket.

We've got another one upstairs but it's been out of use for years.

I'm really not sure about touching the wires, as it's actually my parents' phone socket and I don't want anything to go wrong.

I think I'm just going to buy that phone and adsl faceplate and a BT plug modem cable to go directly into it and just accept the speeds I then get.

GPRS > 3G > Wanadoo 1MB 2GB/month > Zen Internet 3MB 50GB/month > Vivaciti 5MB 100GB/month

Edited by paul_liverpoolfc (Mon 19-Dec-11 17:24:22)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 19-Dec-11 18:34:47
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: paul_liverpoolfc] [link to this post]
 
Were there any wires connected to the removable part of faceplate?
In reply to a post by paul_liverpoolfc:
I think I'm just going to buy that phone and adsl faceplate and a BT plug modem cable to go directly into it and just accept the speeds I then get.
that won't change anything (EDIT: ) except cosmetically.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Mon 19-Dec-11 18:54:58)

Standard User paul_liverpoolfc
(newbie) Mon 19-Dec-11 18:43:52
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Were there any wires connected to the removable part of faceplate?

No - the removable part (with the two connectors on) just came straight off.

I've found my BT plug Belkin High-Speed modem cable and these are the stats with that connected directly to the test socket:

Downstream 5063 (was 5372 with micro-filter in test socket)
SNR Margin(Upstream) 6.0
SNR Margin(Downstream) 6.0 (was 5.9 with micro-filter)
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 25.3
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 45.0

GPRS > 3G > Wanadoo 1MB 2GB/month > Zen Internet 3MB 50GB/month > Vivaciti 5MB 100GB/month
Standard User paul_liverpoolfc
(newbie) Mon 19-Dec-11 18:46:47
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
that won't change anything.


I suspected this but after reading the reviews on the Broadband Buyer site, thought I might as well try it.

GPRS > 3G > Wanadoo 1MB 2GB/month > Zen Internet 3MB 50GB/month > Vivaciti 5MB 100GB/month
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 19-Dec-11 18:51:59
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: paul_liverpoolfc] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by paul_liverpoolfc:
No - the removable part (with the two connectors on) just came straight off.
What connectors? You mean wires connected to the connector block on reverse of the removable part of faceplate? That's what I'm enquiring about!

If so, you do have a live extension socket somewhere.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User paul_liverpoolfc
(newbie) Mon 19-Dec-11 19:41:35
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I meant the removable bit (which the micro-filter connects to).

It doesn't have any wires on the reverse of it, so we haven't got any extension sockets.

When I mentioned two connectors, I was thinking I had this other type of faceplate with a connector for the broadband cable and another for the phone cable.

Thanks to everyone for their help - as you can tell, I'm not very clued-up on phone sockets!

GPRS > 3G > Wanadoo 1MB 2GB/month > Zen Internet 3MB 50GB/month > Vivaciti 5MB 100GB/month
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Mon 19-Dec-11 20:37:08
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: paul_liverpoolfc] [link to this post]
 
As Mr.Saffron said earlier, that looks like a very low sync rate for the attenuation. What do the router stats look like if you use the original (pre Billion) router ? Something doesn't add up.

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 19-Dec-11 21:17:08
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
I'd hazard a guess that the other socket in the property that does not work for a phone possibly still has a cable going to it, perhaps with just one leg connected, creating an imbalanceand impacting the service. If this is the case then I'd be expecting the SNR margin to be lower once it is darker

Otherwise its just one of those lines that does not do as well as it can.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 22-Dec-11 11:25:58
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I've just started learning to tweak the Billion, but my SNR is too low from what I have read, but it is stable has not dropped once.

Is there any chance I could improve what I already have? Increase the download speed?

The SNR value I did input was 15.

Would really appreciate all your guys help.

DSP Firmware Version A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode ADSL2+
Upstream 1204
Downstream 6976
SNR Margin(Upstream) 6.6
SNR Margin(Downstream) 1.8
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 13.7
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 38.0
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 22-Dec-11 11:58:54
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
That line is under performing, have you done the various in home phone wiring checks, e.g. speed/values from the test socket?

You are tweaking the line to within an inch of its life currently, and it still slower than what we would expect, which is 8Meg or more

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Anonymous
(Unregistered)Thu 22-Dec-11 15:28:41
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
That line is under performing, have you done the various in home phone wiring checks, e.g. speed/values from the test socket?

You are tweaking the line to within an inch of its life currently, and it still slower than what we would expect, which is 8Meg or more


Well I have upgraded the DSL cable from the modem to the filter, have an upgraded filter and have a BT iPlate installed.

What more could I do?

O2 (who I am with) have told me I can get 8 meg broadband, but I think I can get more..
Standard User paul_liverpoolfc
(newbie) Thu 22-Dec-11 16:06:45
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
We've just installed the new Adslnation XTE-2005 faceplate and my speed has gone up by 1MB on Speedtest.net and my modem is now syncing at 7212kbps!!!

I wonder if I can tweak it further.

I really wish I'd have installed this faceplate before.

Upstream 940
Downstream 7212
SNR Margin(Upstream) 5.7
SNR Margin(Downstream) 0.8
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 25.1
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 48.0

My speed test result: http://www.speedtest.net/result/1663270478.png

GPRS > 3G > Wanadoo 1MB 2GB/month > Zen Internet 3MB 50GB/month > Vivaciti 5MB 100GB/month
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 22-Dec-11 16:34:32
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: Anonymous] [link to this post]
 
1. Unplug everything and check, connectors can be dirty and cause problems
2. Is there any other phone extensions in the property? While the iPlate will help if there are, if these extensions are not using twisted pair cables they can still cause problems for ADSL.

Hence why we still say test at the test socket, which should mean no other phone works in the house at that time.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 22-Dec-11 16:36:06
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: paul_liverpoolfc] [link to this post]
 
If you are going to hold a 6dB target margin then no more speed.

BT Wholesale can push a 3dB margin on very stable WBC lines, and this may add another 0.5 to 1Meg of speed. Be lines also have that option.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User paul_liverpoolfc
(newbie) Thu 22-Dec-11 17:05:27
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
OK - if nothing else, it's made our phone socket tidier without the dangling micro-filter.

After my last set of tweaking on the old faceplate, I maintained an almost constant speed of 5MB.

Thanks to everyone for their help in this thread - I really do believe I've got my maximum possible speed now.

GPRS > 3G > Wanadoo 1MB 2GB/month > Zen Internet 3MB 50GB/month > Vivaciti 5MB 100GB/month

Edited by paul_liverpoolfc (Thu 22-Dec-11 19:52:08)

Standard User paul_liverpoolfc
(newbie) Fri 23-Dec-11 15:47:17
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: paul_liverpoolfc] [link to this post]
 
It's a tiny bit unrelated to this thread but my Wi-Fi speeds on my Acer Aspire 2920 laptop (3-4 years old) were terrible near my router and I discovered I'd forgotten to download the latest Wi-Fi driver.

I've just installed it and I'm now getting 600 kB/sec in downloads - compared to 100 kB/sec.

I just wanted to remind people that sometimes an outdated Wi-Fi driver can impact on internet speeds on a laptop or PC.

GPRS > 3G > Wanadoo 1MB 2GB/month > Zen Internet 3MB 50GB/month > Vivaciti 5MB 100GB/month

Edited by paul_liverpoolfc (Fri 23-Dec-11 15:53:44)

Standard User ARD
(knowledge is power) Sat 24-Dec-11 16:57:28
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I posted the following over on the general forum.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4076556-r...

My sync with a brand new and rather pricey Billion kit is approximately 1 Mbps lower than with my ZyXEL router. SNR is 6 dB on ZyXEL and 6.3 dB on Billio. (My downsream margin is hard capped at 6dB) Downstream line attenuation is measured at 22 dB by the ZyXEL router and 23 dB by the Billion.

I have an ADSL2+ connection. My router (any router) is plugged into a filtered faceplate on the master socket.

Any explanation as to why sync and therefore download speed should be so different?

Edited by ARD (Sat 24-Dec-11 17:22:27)

Standard User Ripcord
(committed) Sun 25-Dec-11 11:26:08
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: ARD] [link to this post]
 
ZyXEL make good routers
Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Sun 25-Dec-11 22:40:11
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: ARD] [link to this post]
 
Router firmware and then chipset compatibility with the equipment in the exchange can make a connection faster/slower and then there is maybe the mode (ADSL, ADSL2 and ADSL2+) in use to muddy the waters a bit more.

Alastair

omadasafisho
Standard User ARD
(knowledge is power) Mon 26-Dec-11 10:55:21
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: Ripcord] [link to this post]
 
I know ZyXEL make super routers- wish I'd bought a second. Well, you live and learn.
Standard User ARD
(knowledge is power) Mon 26-Dec-11 10:56:58
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
Yes. I guess it's just the diferent chipset. I'd never used Billion before- except for micro-filters. I fell for the hype... frown
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 26-Dec-11 21:54:39
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: ARD] [link to this post]
 
Old numbers http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4144-how-fast-is-... but shows the potential variation you can get

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 26-Dec-11 22:18:34
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
No Billions in that list would be interesting to see how they fair.

Tim
www.vivaciti.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg Variety LLU
My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User Tacitus
(experienced) Tue 27-Dec-11 08:51:46
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: ARD] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ARD:
I know ZyXEL make super routers..........
Interestingly the majority of Zyxel routers use the much maligned AR7 rather than Broadcom.

Edited by Tacitus (Tue 27-Dec-11 08:52:34)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 27-Dec-11 09:07:18
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
A router that does well or bad in that test, may fair better with another line/MSAN combination of course. Which is the point if chasing the ultimate last few kbps then figuring out best match for a specific line is possible.

Another problem can be a router that squeezes the last once of performance, might actually be more prone the uncorrectable errors, resulting in a lower real world data transfer rate.

Lots and lots of variables.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 27-Dec-11 20:03:48
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Problem I'm having with my wired Billion 7800 is it's fine for small downloads like 10mb 15mb it maxes out the line which is fine on speedtests. Get into 100-200mb downloads and it starts stalling as if under a lot of load there is a problem which can effect download speed.

Tim
www.vivaciti.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg Variety LLU
My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User ARD
(knowledge is power) Wed 28-Dec-11 14:37:00
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Very interestingg stuff, Andrew. Anyway, the Billion is now on its way back to Amazon. I think I'll stick with ZyXEL.
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 28-Dec-11 20:21:32
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: ARD] [link to this post]
 
I'm considering the same ARD as I just had an unexplained reboot. Can you tweak the SNR of the Zyxel I maybe better off sticking with my speedtouch and buying a cheap gigabit switch.

Tim
www.vivaciti.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg Variety LLU
My Broadband Speed Test
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 02-Jan-12 17:23:55
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
RAM or CPU issue - does it support PRTG and provide any CPU utilisation data?

Turning off wireless, changing encryption, and other software features may help. As can trying multiple versions of firmware if available.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 02-Jan-12 17:38:15
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Re: Which settings for Billion 7800N router?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Trying the latest firmware and so far so good. Billion are sending me some new firmware to see if we can solve the throughput issue. It's the wired version so no wireless to turn off. SNTP is supported from the Web interface but last time I used PRTG it was fairly crippled on the free version.

Tim
www.vivaciti.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg Variety LLU
My Broadband Speed Test
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