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Standard User leo77
(newbie) Sat 03-Mar-12 16:21:08
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Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[link to this post]
 
Hello All,

Strange problem with my internet. I had been using plusnet and a dlink 2640 router for months with no problems. Then a few days ago, as I was surfing the net, the internet went down.

I noticed that the router was completely unresponsive with just a red power light and green DSL light. Trying hard resetting, unplugging, etc, and still the router is 100% dead and unresponsive, can't access web-based config, red power light always on.

I changed the router to another one (linksys), and surprise, my internet is also down. The new router works, lights ok, I access the configuration page, but I keep getting a red internet light - DSL is up, but cannot log into the internet.

Plusnet is investigating, but what could've happened that killed my router and my internet at the same time??

Thanks!

Leo
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Sat 03-Mar-12 18:47:09
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: leo77] [link to this post]
 
I can only think it could have been some type of electrical power surge.



EDIT: typo 'think'!

Edited by b4dger (Sat 03-Mar-12 19:26:04)

Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Sat 03-Mar-12 19:04:34
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by b4dger:
I can only thing it could have been some type of electrical power surge.
b*cat nods in agreement and adds the comment that it could have been the original modem dying that put a high voltage surge onto the line pair which, in turn, killed part of the exchange line-card. Very strange, if that was the case.

Does the telephone work correctly? Without any modem connected to the line, is the telephone "quiet" or "noisy" when making / receiving calls?

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.


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Standard User leo77
(newbie) Sat 03-Mar-12 19:32:58
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
The phone is working ok. No strange sounds or noises.

But could the router send a strong enough surge? If it only runs on a 12v 1A power adapter? Could the surge have come from the socket?

Now plusnet is investigating and they need to send an engineer, however if this engineer doesn't find any faults they are going to blame my internal wiring which is a £60 charge. Not sure if I should allow this engineer to come and risk the charge, try another ISP, or give up for good and go for mobile broadband (I'm moving out in 3 months anyway).
Standard User ggremlin
(committed) Sat 03-Mar-12 19:43:10
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: leo77] [link to this post]
 
DSL is up, but cannot log into the internet.

are you sure you have the right username/password

there used to be a test one, so try this:
see KITZ
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/bttest.htm

User Name : [email protected]_domain
Password : (leave blank)
Standard User Sandgrounder
(knowledge is power) Sat 03-Mar-12 22:59:24
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: leo77] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by leo77:
.... however if this engineer doesn't find any faults they are going to blame my internal wiring which is a £60 charge.
That is easy enough to check.

You need to try both routers on the master socket (with nothing else connected).



Line One:- Zen - DrayTek Vigor 2600VG
Line Two:- EntaNet (Aquiss) - DrayTek Vigor 2600
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Sat 03-Mar-12 23:13:49
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: leo77] [link to this post]
 
I see. frown

I am wondering if the original modem's PSU developed a fault, such that mains voltage appeared - however transiently - at the 12V DC input socket and, thus, blew the electronics of that modem/router and had a detrimental effect on the exchange's line-card.
Now plusnet is investigating and they need to send an engineer, however if this engineer doesn't find any faults they are going to blame my internal wiring which is a £60 charge.
It isn't a simple binary choice. If the service does not work when the new modem/router is connected to the test socket at the NTE5/A -- exposed by removing the lower front plate -- then the fault is external to you. Whether it is within the Openreach wiring or the exchange equipment, you will not be charged.

You need to do two things:

(1) Ensure that you have used the test socket and advise PlusNet of that fact, along with the result. If the fault is still present when using the test socket, you will not be liable for any charges.

(2) Ensure that PlusNet have booked for an Openreach SFI engineer to visit and not an Openreach telephony network engineer. (SFI == Special Faults Investigation.)

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User OCdragon
(experienced) Sun 04-Mar-12 11:14:29
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
Yeah, With a known working Modem/.Router:
1) you have to connect your Modem/router directly to your BT Test-socket, as suggested, so that you can rule out your Extensons that may be causing the problems observed.
2) having connected through your BT Test-socket, you have to retrieve your modem STAT. including your D/S & U/S Sync Speeds, SNRs, and their Atten because it would have been your Internet's PPP in errors, which caused your Internet light RED/Flashing, rather than your DSL connection fault, if yours DSL/Broadband light is still GREEN and your modem's Sync Speeds were NORMAL.
In that situation, i.e. PPP errors, it might have been a) either you did not enter your CORRECT User's Name & Pass-word to log-in to your ISP's data server, or b) your ISP's data server was indeed at fault at that time!!
3) If your are convinced that you have entered your CORRECY User Name and Password, but your modem is still indicating Internet RED, i.e. PPP errors, and your DSL is still GREEN, then you have to tell your ISP immediately.

Intel E4300 OC with 2GB RAMs,Speedtouch 585 Modem/Router and Windows XP Pro

O2 Standard ADSL2+ Broadband!

Edited by OCdragon (Sun 04-Mar-12 11:16:08)

Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Sun 04-Mar-12 18:37:02
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: OCdragon] [link to this post]
 
I do believe you intended your post to be for the OP, leo77, and not me. smile

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User leo77
(newbie) Mon 05-Mar-12 00:58:30
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: OCdragon] [link to this post]
 
I have the right name and password, I double checked with plusnet, I also tried the test user names with no luck. Still the same issue after 3 days.

However I don't believe this flat has a test/master socket. It is a new flat (rented) with those new flush chrome plated sockets, there are two, I unscrewed both from the wall and there's nothing behind them that I would identify as a test/master socket. One is a pass-through with wires in and out, and another is just the end with wires in but not out.

I had a test socket in my previous flat, one of those white BT ones that you unscrewed the cover and test socket was behind, I have seen them before, but there's nothing to indicate that there is a test socket in this flat...

And the weirder thing is - I have no dial tone in the pass-through socket, so the router doesn't work in this socket either. I had never tried it before since I moved here, so not sure if this is a new issue or not.

I have always used the end socket before.

I have looked around the flat everywhere and no evidence of any other phone sockets, and no blank faceplates either that could be hiding one behind.

What am I looking for in terms of stats? I can see them on my router's config page, but not sure what normal parameters are, one thing I notice is that the connection speed is rather low, in the 2000's kbs, sometimes 4000kbs, I would expect higher.

is there a webpage or link that lists typical normal stats?
Standard User Apprentice
(knowledge is power) Mon 05-Mar-12 09:07:41
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: leo77] [link to this post]
 
is there a webpage or link that lists typical normal stats?

Select your router from the list:

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php

Alastair

omadasafisho
Standard User OCdragon
(experienced) Mon 05-Mar-12 10:53:29
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
Yes, sorry!!

Intel E4300 OC with 2GB RAMs,Speedtouch 585 Modem/Router and Windows XP Pro

O2 Standard ADSL2+ Broadband!
Standard User leo77
(newbie) Mon 05-Mar-12 11:03:05
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: Apprentice] [link to this post]
 
Thanks, I know where to find the stats, but I couldn't find a webpage that clearly explains what they should be, it's all very confusing out there, from one page I found, my stats are "good", but not "very good" or "outstanding".

Here they are:

Downstream Rate: 3069 kbps
Upstream Rate: 445 kbps
Downstream Margin: 25 db
Upstream Margin: 21 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 37 db
Upstream Line Attenuation: 10 db
Downstream Transmit Power: 11 db
Upstream Transmit Power: 19 db

One thing I noticed is how low the downstream rate is, it definitely used to be higher than that.

Leo
Standard User OCdragon
(experienced) Mon 05-Mar-12 11:23:56
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: leo77] [link to this post]
 
"The new router works, lights ok, I access the configuration page, but I keep getting a red internet light - DSL is up, but cannot log into the internet.!

From your above and recent tested statements, you do have some kind of DSL connection, but your Internet PPP is definitely down somehow, i.e. no logical data connection to your ISP data server, and that is why you cannot be recognised and use their internet!
Normally this cause could be:
a) high burst-errors in your DSL connections and hence it is NOT recognised in your logging-In procedures during your ISP's PPP logging-In procedures, (but unless it were permanent, sometimes you may still log-in) or
b) incorrect User Name &/ Passsword given, or
c) your ISP screw up???
d) Incorrect Modem's configurations such as VP, logical data link selection etc. or
e) your PC/laptop Ethernet configurations/connections having problems.

As for your STAT., mostly depending on your line attenuations and errors, which could affect your SNRs (should be around 5-6 dbs typical) and hence your Sync speed with times. However, for a typical <= 50db downstream line-attenuation and 5-6 db SNR, your downstream Sync Speed should be better than 5-6 Mbps!! Just a guess.

Intel E4300 OC with 2GB RAMs,Speedtouch 585 Modem/Router and Windows XP Pro

O2 Standard ADSL2+ Broadband!
Standard User OCdragon
(experienced) Mon 05-Mar-12 11:38:35
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: leo77] [link to this post]
 
"Downstream Rate: 3069 kbps
Upstream Rate: 445 kbps
Downstream Margin: 25 db
Upstream Margin: 21 db
Downstream Line Attenuation: 37 db
Upstream Line Attenuation: 10 db
Downstream Transmit Power: 11 db
Upstream Transmit Power: 19 db
"

For your above 37db downstream attenuation, your corresponding SNR was 25db, which is too HIGH, but your Sync Speed was only just over 3Mbps, which is too LOW, and unless there is a deliberate speed-cap some where. Apart from speed-capping, It appears to me that you have a "noisy" DSL/line connection, which causes your ISP's PPP section intermittently failed.
Have your check your phone line?? If BT line, try to dial 17070 and choose Option 2 for Quiet Line Test and it should be "almost quiet".

Intel E4300 OC with 2GB RAMs,Speedtouch 585 Modem/Router and Windows XP Pro

O2 Standard ADSL2+ Broadband!
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 05-Mar-12 11:45:50
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: OCdragon] [link to this post]
 
25dB margin is an odd target figure, so I'd restart the router to get a set of more meaningful numbers

Also if getting these figures the DSL is working, just that authentication is an issue. How sure are you that the username/password VPI/VCI, PPPoA VCMUX settings etc are all correct?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Mon 05-Mar-12 17:37:20
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: OCdragon] [link to this post]
 
No problem, it's easily done! wink

-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User leo77
(newbie) Tue 06-Mar-12 20:08:17
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: ggremlin] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for all the comments from everyone here. The phone was making some crackling noises when I turned the modem on (but not when the modem was off). Maybe some shorted wires?

In any case I ended up cancelling with plusnet, every email they sent me mentioned the £60 charge if the engineer came for a visit and the fault was with my internal wiring, which I am not sure - it could be... I don't want to risk it.

So I cancelled it and went for 3g mobile broadband instead.

However the mystery is probably going to remain unsolved - what killed my router?
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 06-Mar-12 20:12:44
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Re: Dead router and dead internet at the same time?


[re: leo77] [link to this post]
 
Isn't that going to restrict you rather a lot, or very rapidly eat up an extra £60 compared to landline broadband? And keep eating.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - Plusnet Value Fibre.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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