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Standard User diputs36
(newbie) Mon 02-Apr-12 14:43:04
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Maybe a fresh router?


[link to this post]
 
For my position I have a good ADSL2+ connection and BT has set my margin to 3.5dB which means I sync 8700-9100kb/s with 4.65 dB attenuation. However most evenings /nights the connection will drop and reconnect @ ~1000kb/s less with a margin of 4-4.5dB.

Present router is Thompson TG 585 v7 8.2.3.5 supplied by ISP.

Can you recommend options that either will maintain the higher sync or a rate higher than the lower, whether that is by tweaking or otherwise?

My router details are below, the first at higher sync, the second at lower.



Link Information
Uptime: 0 days, 1:18:18
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 440 / 8,784
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25.5 / 46.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 20.0 / 3.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 14,348
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 8
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 4

Link Information
Uptime: 3 days, 13:44:09
DSL Type: G.992.5 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 440 / 7,818
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.5 / 0.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25.5 / 46.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 9.5 / 4.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 14 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): NA / 15,705,129
CRC Errors (Up/Down): NA / 750
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 647
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 02-Apr-12 15:13:09
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: diputs36] [link to this post]
 
Your speeds are already better than expected.

You either:
  • Have highest speeds and risk instability and discons. as you are getting, with a low Target NM of 3.5 dB, or
  • Sacrifice some speed for more stability, by raising your Target NM to 6dB or more.
As you are already getting discons with the low NM, I would recommend getting your Target raised.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Standard User diputs36
(newbie) Mon 02-Apr-12 18:36:08
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
I think I'd lose more than now were the margin to go to 6dB. Surely it can hardly be called proper instability to have a once a day at most resync.

How does the 585 rank in the holding at low margins fare against other routers?
Are there better?


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Standard User baby_frogmella
(committed) Tue 03-Apr-12 07:19:37
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: diputs36] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by diputs36:
Can you recommend options that either will maintain the higher sync or a rate higher than the lower, whether that is by tweaking or otherwise?


Yes, go for a Billion 7800N router which should have no problem hanging onto a line with 3-4db noisemargin. Its arguably the best router out there. You could always return it back to Amazon for a refund if you're not happy, but pretty sure you won't. Also it lets you tweak your noise margin for speed/stability smile
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Billion-BiPAC-7800N-Broadban...

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Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Tue 03-Apr-12 08:40:48
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: diputs36] [link to this post]
 
You can only push a line so far so perhaps at your attenuation you're asking a bit much.

I would suggest getting your ISP to change your TSNRM to 6db. You can then see if this then runs stable and/or if you actually notice the reduced sync in everyday use.

I swear by my ST585v6 - if you want to try one of these then at least you can pick one up very cheaply (around £15) on eBay to give it a go.

But it looks like 3.5db is too low for a TSNRM on your line...

Standard User diputs36
(newbie) Tue 03-Apr-12 08:59:11
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Any views on the 7700N which is somewhat cheaoer?
Standard User baby_frogmella
(committed) Tue 03-Apr-12 18:09:05
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: diputs36] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by diputs36:
Any views on the 7700N which is somewhat cheaoer?


The 7700N is a budget version of the 7800N and while i wouldn't say its poor, the 7800N is far superior. The 7800N uses a more powerful chipset broadcom 6358, whilst the 7700N uses 6328. The 7800N has more RAM, has better wifi range, gigabit ports and SNR can be tweaked through the web page whereas you need to faff around with telnet commands to tweak the snr on the 7700N and unlike the 7800N, you lose the tweaked SNR on the 7700N every time the router is rebooted. If you can afford it, id strongly recommend going for the 7800N (have a look at the amazon reviews), however if its way out of your budget, then the 7700N is a good cheaper alternative.

TalkTalk Plus LLU ADSL2+ 18015/1019 kbps
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ThinkPad X220
Standard User diputs36
(newbie) Tue 03-Apr-12 18:48:56
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for tips! BTW What chip version does my existing router have in it? TG 585 v7
Standard User epyon
(committed) Tue 03-Apr-12 19:32:30
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: diputs36] [link to this post]
 
broadcom also you should get your upstream uncapped.

My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Tue 03-Apr-12 20:39:56
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: diputs36] [link to this post]
 
For maximum stability, you need to tweak your SNRM at night. It would be better for you if you bought a router that allowed you to self-tweak it.

DrT

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User diputs36
(newbie) Wed 04-Apr-12 10:44:23
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: epyon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by epyon:
broadcom also you should get your upstream uncapped.
Hi! I meant which version number of Broadcom.smile

Why do you suggest uncapping the upstream, particularly in relation to this thread?
Standard User diputs36
(newbie) Wed 04-Apr-12 10:48:13
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
For maximum stability, you need to tweak your SNRM at night. It would be better for you if you bought a router that allowed you to self-tweak it.

DrT
Have you any particular in mind? By self tweak, what do you mean?
Standard User epyon
(committed) Wed 04-Apr-12 11:26:57
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: diputs36] [link to this post]
 
Its free so why not tongue

and its the BCM6338 i think

for self tweaking i use the TP-Link TD-W8960N.

My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by epyon (Wed 04-Apr-12 11:28:17)

Standard User diputs36
(newbie) Wed 04-Apr-12 12:46:21
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: baby_frogmella] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:
In reply to a post by diputs36:
Any views on the 7700N which is somewhat cheaoer?


The 7700N is a budget version of the 7800N and while i wouldn't say its poor, the 7800N is far superior. The 7800N uses a more powerful chipset broadcom 6358, whilst the 7700N uses 6328. The 7800N has more RAM, has better wifi range, gigabit ports and SNR can be tweaked through the web page whereas you need to faff around with telnet commands to tweak the snr on the 7700N and unlike the 7800N, you lose the tweaked SNR on the 7700N every time the router is rebooted. If you can afford it, id strongly recommend going for the 7800N (have a look at the amazon reviews), however if its way out of your budget, then the 7700N is a good cheaper alternative.
Thanks for advice. 7800N definitely out of my league and note the disadvantage of the need to reboot for the 7700N. I tend to leave router on 24/7, so presumably it will be an infrequent problem.
Standard User diputs36
(newbie) Wed 04-Apr-12 12:50:39
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: epyon] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by epyon:
...for self tweaking i use the TP-Link TD-W8960N.
Is that Broadcom too; 6xxx? How's it relate to 7700N?
Standard User baby_frogmella
(experienced) Wed 04-Apr-12 13:13:23
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: diputs36] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by diputs36:
Thanks for advice. 7800N definitely out of my league and note the disadvantage of the need to reboot for the 7700N. I tend to leave router on 24/7, so presumably it will be an infrequent problem.


In that case, go for the Billion 7700N. Again if you're not happy with it just return it back to Amazon for a full refund (obviously keep the packaging)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Billion-BiPAC-7700N-Wireless...

Info on how to tweak SNR on 7700N:
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/dslrouter/4010816-b...
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1...
(use putty client if necessary)

If you do go for it, let us know how you find it smile

TalkTalk Plus LLU ADSL2+ 18015/1019 kbps
Pioneer Kuro 428XD ISF'd
iPhone 4S 16gb
ThinkPad X220
Standard User diputs36
(newbie) Thu 05-Apr-12 19:17:33
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: diputs36] [link to this post]
 
Found the specs of the Billion 7700 and the TP-Link TD-W8960N, and have set out differences below. Bold is Billion, Light TP. Can someone advice the (degree of) importance of them, please?



FeaturesFirewall protection, switching, DMZ port, routing, DHCP support, NAT support, , Stateful Packet Inspection (SPI), support, Quality of Service (QoS), Wi-Fi Protected Setup (WPS)
FeaturesFirewall protection, DHCP support, NAT support, NAPT support, IGMP snooping,
Stateful Packet Inspection (SPI), MAC address filtering, VPN passthrough, parental control, IP address filtering, firmware upgradable, Quality of Service (QoS)


Compliant StandardsANSI T1.413, IEEE 802.11b, IEEE 802.11g, IEEE 802.1x, IEEE 802.11n, UPnP
Compliant StandardsIEEE 802.3, IEEE 802.3u, IEEE 802.1D, IEEE 802.1p, IEEE 802.11b, IEEE 802.11g, IEEE 802.11n

Encryption Algorithm128-bit WEP, 64-bit WEP, WPA-PSK, WPA2-PSK
Encryption AlgorithmAES, 128-bit WEP, 64-bit WEP, TKIP, WPA, WPA2, WPA-PSK, WPA2-PSK

Gain Level2 dBi
Gain Level3 dBi

InterfacesLAN : 4 x 10Base-T/100Base-TX - RJ-45 , WAN : 1 x ADSL
InterfacesWAN : 1 x ADSL2+ - RJ-11 , LAN : 4 x 10Base-T/100Base-TX - RJ-45

Network / Transport ProtocolPPPoE, AAL5, IPoA, OAM F4, OAM F5
Network / Transport ProtocolTCP/IP, PPTP, UDP/IP, L2TP, IPSec, PPPoE, PPPoA, AAL5, ARP, DHCP, DNS

Protocols & SpecificationsITU G.992.1 (G.DMT), ITU G.992.2 (G.Lite), ITU G.994.1 (G.hs), ITU G.992.3 (G.DMT.bis), ITU G.992.5, ITU G.992.5 Annex M, ITU G.992.3 Annex M
Protocols & SpecificationsITU G.992.1 (G.DMT), ITU G.992.2 (G.Lite), ITU G.994.1 (G.hs), ITU G.992.3 (G.DMT.bis), ITU G.992.5

Remote Management ProtocolSNMP 1, SNMP 2
Remote Management ProtocolHTTP
DoS attack prevention, content filtering, packet filtering, dynamic DNS server, manageable, Wireless Distribution System (WDS)
VPN support, VLAN support, auto-uplink (auto MDI/MDI-X), IGMP snooping, Syslog support



Built-in DevicesRadio access point
Cables Included1 x network cable , 2 x modem cable
CapacityConcurrent IPSec VPN tunnels : 10
Framing FormatANSI T1.413
IP Telephony
Line Properties
Max Transfer Rate24 Mbps
Routing ProtocolRIP-1, RIP-2, static IP routing
Status IndicatorsPort status, link activity, power
VoIP ProtocolsH.323, SIP
Standard User diputs36
(newbie) Tue 10-Apr-12 09:03:48
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Re: Maybe a fresh router?


[re: diputs36] [link to this post]
 
Now the Easter Eggs are all gone, Guys,,,, laugh
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