Details of BT's FTTP ONT?

What ONT do BT use for their FTTP installations?

Can any one tell me the specifications and where I might be able to buy one?

http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/super-... may give you a lead

Why would you want to buy your own ONT, when you wouldn't be able to provision it?

If you're intending to simulate BT FTTP, do you really need to present your simulation via an ONT, which would mean having a GPON head-end as well. Surely presenting your simulation via Ethernet is enough.

Thanks, that helps.

In reply to a post by David_W:

Why would you want to buy your own ONT, when you wouldn't be able to provision it?

I just have to connect one end to a bit of fibre when I have installed it, and the other end to a router.

The router end will likely work, whether the fibre end will work depends on the specification, and whether it is compatible with what Gigaclear would provide.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/super-... may give you a lead

With 4 ethernet ports and two telephone sockets, it surprises me that that these are not routers, or capable of being so.

Not sure what your trying to achieve, but if your just running some fibre point to point and want to terminate it, just use a media converter.

http://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instan...

I'd expect you to rent the ONT from Gigaclear as part of their service package. It seems that you may be responsible for the drop fibre and its installation (unlike with BT Openreach FTTP), but I'm not aware of any fibre provider that operates a bring your own ONT service, not least because of the potential compatibility and provisioning issues.

If you want to bring your own router, that's a different matter. You can presumably reject Gigaclear's router if you wish or take it as a spare, then plug your own router in to the ONT's Ethernet port.

If the issue is a desire to be in control of your own router, then is there an option for a small block of routed IPv4 from Gigaclear.

Then you can use their ONT/router to handle the IP block and pass some of the IP addresses un molested to your own business grade router/firewall device.

As Gigaclear probably use remote monitoring to ensure no widespead network issues they may require their specific ONT on the end of the fibre. The answer would be to ask Gigaclear.

I need a 2nd wireless access point and If I want to get above 100mbps I have to replace my existing 2nd router. I am also quite keen to have some spare equipment to assist with problem diagnosis. One option is just to ask Gigaclear for a spare another option is to see what else might be available but it looks a more difficult problem to solve than replacing my 'frog' with an ADSL router.

In terms of adding a wireless access point - just connect it to the Gigaclear ONT/Router - job done.

Why a second router now? And nothing stopping you running a second router via an Ethernet port if you wish with Gigaclear.

On a spare, am sure for a price they will let you have a spare, it may even be one of the business grade options.

I am just learning at the moment. One thing is clear, I really do need to ask Gigaclear what my options are.

If the root issue is

1. Getting wireless to everywhere in the property
2. Back up hardware in case it fails

Then for 1 the existing ONT will suffice, just add wireless access points to your hearts content, no need for second routers.

On 2 best to buy the same as what Gigaclear use, or they may do a system where you can just pay for next day delivery if yours breaks.

I would imagine they are capable of being routers, or a different model in the same family would be, but the regulatory separation of Openreach from the ISP lends itself to using ISP supplied routers with Openreach "line interface devices"

If you want a back up in case of failure it is important to use the same box that your fibre supplier has supplied.

Many optical devices do not interwork very well with other manufacturers equipment, it is normal to have the same manufacturers kit at both ends of a link.

I believe this is much more important with optical kit than DSL kit. It is also important to remember than disconnecting the fibre may well bring an alarm up at the headend that could turn the light off automatically ( safety cut out) as remote dianostics are supported.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

but the regulatory separation of Openreach from the ISP lends itself to using ISP supplied routers with Openreach "line interface devices"

Also, as these ONTs don't have WiFi the battery backup for POTS presumably lasts longer.

interesting point. A paper suggests 802.11n might use about 2 Watts. At 12V thats 1/6 of an amp so 6 hours of battery backup for that would be 1 Ah which is 2 low spec AA cells (though you need 8 -10 AA cells to get the voltage).

So a factor, but not a big one. Especially as most people have DECT phones an ONT with DECT built in and battery backup would be smart.

Easy enough to turn that off if you have a power cut and want to extend the power.

The Gigaclear power input was a useful 12V at 2A, so for those where broadband is more reliable than power easy enough to door longer backup

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The Gigaclear power input was a useful 12V at 2A, so for those where broadband is more reliable than power easy enough to door longer backup

Tractor battery

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

What ONT do BT use for their FTTP installations?

Can any one tell me the specifications and where I might be able to buy one?

Not going to happen. ONTs are like cable modems, have to be provisioned by the network operator to work with their network, and the ONT is one of the places where rate limiting to the purchased product happens.

EDIT: There are really good reasons for this - if anyone can introduce any ONT they want onto a network there's nothing stopping them from messing with the ONT to give themselves uncapped bandwidth and completely trash the PON split for everyone else.

The ONU announces its presence on the PON by responding to a broadcast serial number request periodically issued by the OLT with a Serial_Number_ONU message.

At which point the provisioning system at the operator will either allow things to proceed or issue an emergency stop message to the ONU/ONT commanding it to shut its upstream laser down.

Edited by deleted (Fri 01-Feb-13 11:31:34)

are there also privacy issues on PON, where you could capture data intended for others ?

In reply to a post by yarwell:

are there also privacy issues on PON, where you could capture data intended for others ?

In the same manner as a cable system yes Phil. All downstream data hits all ONTs in the optical split, so a modified ONT that simply forwards everything in the split through its bridge would be a potential security risk.

Encryption is available though, so all bursts can be encrypted and only read by the ONT they are intended for.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

In the same manner as a cable system yes Phil. All downstream data hits all ONTs in the optical split, so a modified ONT that simply forwards everything in the split through its bridge would be a potential security risk.

I would have thought that was a significant security risk. Some one might make a device to insert in the line to read other people's data.

Encryption is available though, so all bursts can be encrypted and only read by the ONT they are intended for.

That would certainly help.

Encryption features became standard in DOCSIS, the cable modem standard, a long time ago - somewhere in the DOCSIS 1.x timeframe, I believe. I'd expect encryption to be universally deployed on modern cable systems.

With FTTP equipment typically being significantly newer than some cable modem systems, I'd be very surprised to find an FTTP deployment that was not using encryption.

In reply to a post by David_W:

Encryption features became standard in DOCSIS, the cable modem standard, a long time ago - somewhere in the DOCSIS 1.x timeframe, I believe. I'd expect encryption to be universally deployed on modern cable systems.

When I was a cable user (DOCSIS 1.x and 2.x days) on NTL, the debug-log used to show that "Baseline privacy: disabled" which meant that no, encryption was not enabled.

That doesn't surprise me for the ntl: days - but that was several years ago. I'd be surprised if Virgin's DOCSIS 3 kit was running without baseline privacy enabled.

I would have thought that was a significant security risk. Some one might make a device to insert in the line to read other people's data.

It's a feature of any shared media system - coax cable or PON fibre. They use time division multiplexing ie broadcast your data in a time slot which only your modem responds to, however an evil twin to your modem could be introduced and pick up the same data.

VM had problems in early days with consumer's windows PCs seeing each other via simple workgroup networking, until they blocked that in the modems.

In reply to a post by David_W:

That doesn't surprise me for the ntl: days - but that was several years ago. I'd be surprised if Virgin's DOCSIS 3 kit was running without baseline privacy enabled.

Correct, VM's network went completely BPI+ a couple of years back. There were virtually no incompatible CPE left on the network so they ran with it.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

I would have thought that was a significant security risk. Some one might make a device to insert in the line to read other people's data.

Pretty much unheard of on cable, even more difficult on FTTP as the hardware is much more difficult to get.

TLS is there for a reason, it should always be assumed that data can and will be intercepted in transit.

In reply to a post by Ignitionnet:

TLS is there for a reason, it should always be assumed that data can and will be intercepted in transit.

Exactly - the is the internet - even if the broadband provider is encrypting between home and head-end, no encryption on the trunk links or exchange points.