Best annex m modem to use with a Broadcom CPW DSLAM

Before moving to Xilo I bought a Vigor 120 v2 as I was expecting to be placed on an Infineon DSLAM, but according to my modem, I'm on a Broadcom DSLAM.

I've tried a couple of Broadcom modem/routers (Belkin F5D7633-4 on firmware 1.00.25 and a Technicolor TG582n unlocked using this method) that supposedly support annex m, but the both of them sync at a max of around 13.5mb down and 1.3mb up. This is quite low considering I synced at 18.5mb down/1.4mb up on BE (uncapped annex A).

The Vigor 120 v2 syncs at about 12.5mb down and gives a better upstream sync at 1.9mb, but I'm wondering if I can get this higher by matching chipsets, something which worked wonders when I was with BE and Sky.

I'd appreciate recommendations or advise, e.g. maybe there's some settings I could change via telnet on the two Broadcom modem/routers? If I need new hardware then the most I'd be willing to spend is around £40 (I don't mind buying second hand), I may be willing to spend more if the sync speed is proven to increase significantly in similar conditions to myself.

The new modem or modem/router would have to allow my RT-N16 to connect to it, the Vigor 120 v2 only allows me to do this as it can translate PPPoA to PPPoE, a feature that I believe is quite rare. I don't mind having a double NAT if the increase in sync is noticeable, in the past I've only been able to connect by putting my routers IP into the modem/routers DMZ.

Some info I got through telnet on the Vigor 120 v2:
Stats (Broadcom modem/routers report my downstream attenuation as 29/30)
Vendor ID

You may find a Huawei HG612 modem on Ebay, these are used for FTTC connections but after unlocking you can configure it as an ADSL modem.
See http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/dslrouter/t/4328435...

Edited by deleted (Sat 17-May-14 14:48:03)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

You may find a Huawei HG612 modem on Ebay, these are used for FTTC connections but after unlocking you can configure it as an ADSL modem.
See http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/dslrouter/t/4328435...

I actually have a HG612 (3B) from my time on BT Infinity. I was unable to get it to sync on my current annex m connection, the DSL light didn't even blink.

Is it unlocked? In the default BT configuration, it only supports VDSL. You have to modify the setup to get it to work on ADSL

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Is it unlocked? In the default BT configuration, it only supports VDSL. You have to modify the setup to get it to work on ADSL

Yes, it's unlocked. I tried playing about with the ATM and WAN settings but nothing seemed to get it working.

Did you see the edit I made to point you to the configuration?

The sync rates that you seeing ar around the normal figure 12-14mbps down and 1.7-9 up on fast path, with a attenuation of 29db, with a target margin of 6db, maybe dropping the margin to 3db would give a bit more speed, prob around 15-6mbps range ds, & no or little gain on the us
And yes when on non AnnexM your ds sync should increase , it think that telefonica uk were the only ones that offered 1.4mbsp us on there llu kit, 1.3mbps seems the normal value

The HG612 will work well on annex m but annex m needs the latest unlocked firmware (with adsl_phy 038) and enabling via the telnet. You need "xdslcmd configure --mod m" to enable it. This needs setting every time you reboot the HG612.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Did you see the edit I made to point you to the configuration?

Yes, I've just had another look at the HG612 and changed the settings to be the same as in the post you linked to. I also updated the firmware to one I found here and ran the following commands via telnet:

xdslcmd start --mod dlt2pmv
xdslcmd configure --snr 150 --mod m

Still refusing to sync, I don't think it even recognised those two commands.

Edit:

The telnet commands are now working, I didn't know I had to enter "sh" before the commands would work. The DSL light now flashes but it won't sync, I tried setting a target SNR of 3db, 6db and leaving it as default.

Edited by deleted (Sat 17-May-14 16:26:41)

Did you update via the gui or the hold reset and power on method. Only the latter actually updates. A factory reset and reconfiguration with your settings is also a good idea. Look at the firmware version in the GUI it should have ..035.. in it if the update worked. A batter newer firmware is also available in this thread http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13130.0 the version bcm96368MVWG_fs_kernel_HG612V100R001C01B030SP06_unlockedgui-nobtagent

found on the link given under experimental is recommednded

Edited by deleted (Sat 17-May-14 16:51:58)

In reply to a post by les70:

Did you update via the gui or the hold reset and power on method. Only the latter actually updates. A factory reset and reconfiguration with your settings is also a good idea. Look at the firmware version in the GUI it should have ..035.. in it if the update worked. A batter newer firmware is also available in this thread http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13130.0 the version bcm96368MVWG_fs_kernel_HG612V100R001C01B030SP06_unlockedgui-nobtagent

found on the link given under experimental is recommednded

I used the GUI method (upgrade firmware option under the Maintenance tab), the firmware version is showing 30b, so it doesn't look like it's worked.

I tried the reset method following this guide but when I try going to 192.168.1.1 it just times out.

The guide should work if you follow it carefully. The PC NIC needs to be set to an IP on the same subnet eg 192.168.1.100 and the button needs a steady push with a paper clip while the power is connected and for about 15 sec afterwards.

Edited by deleted (Sat 17-May-14 18:26:17)

Matching chipsets is an old wives tale. It's all done by software implementing international standards.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Matching chipsets is an old wives tale. It's all done by software implementing international standards.

I'm not sure about that, but I don't tend to worry about it nowadays. Buy decent kit and it should be OK.

Yes, decent kit is the crux of the matter, not chipsets.

In reply to a post by les70:

The guide should work if you follow it carefully. The PC NIC needs to be set to an IP on the same subnet eg 192.168.1.100 and the button needs a steady push with a paper clip while the power is connected and for about 15 sec afterwards.

Managed to get it working, for some reason my laptop connected while my PC didn't, despite the IP settings being the same.

Through SNR tweaking, I've managed to sync at 16.1mb down. Just like the other Broadcom modem/routers I've tried, the HG612 will not sync over 1.4mb up, even though my line's capable of 1.9mb as proven by the Vigor 120 v2.

Thanks for your help, I think I'll stick with the HG612 for now. I read somewhere that 3db profiles should be available this year, I'll maybe switch back to the Vigor if it's true.

Did you turn QOS off?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Did you turn QOS off?

Yes.

You may do a bit better upstream with the newer firmware that I mentioned.
see http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13130.msg247...

In reply to a post by les70:

You may do a bit better upstream with the newer firmware that I mentioned.
see http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=13130.msg247...

I installed the one you recommended, as far as I know. My firmware is showing as A2pv6C038m.d24j.

That is the latest version so you won't get much better. This rather dated review showed quite a variation between modems in upstream annex m performance. I found the HG's were a little better than DG834v4's. see http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4144-how-fast-is-...

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Matching chipsets is an old wives tale. It's all done by software implementing international standards.

Really? Could you care to explain the following on my old TalkTalk LLU connection?

Billion 7800N
sync: ~15.5mb
atten: 27db
SNR: 6db

Linksys WAG160N
sync: ~16mb
atten: 27db
SNR: 6db

Draytek 2710n
sync: 17mb
atten: 29db
SNR: 6

Draytek 120 v2
sync: 17.5mb
atten: 29db
SNR: 6db

and last week i lent my Draytek120 v2 to another TBB member 'Caley' who's on the same exchange as me (NSICL) and she's with Xilo via TT LLU:

Netgear N300
sync: 18mb
atten: 19db
SNR: 6db

Draytek 120v2
sync: 19.3mb
atten: 23db
SNR: 6db

All the drayteks use an Infineon chipset (same as TalkTalk dslam) whilst the rest are all broadcom. So there's your proof.

Edited by deleted (Sat 17-May-14 22:11:32)

Now you have it working, what is:-

In reply to a post by Anonymous3:

xdslcmd configure --snr 150

about?

That increases your noise margin at sync time from the DSLAM setting.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Now you have it working, what is:-

In reply to a post by Anonymous3:

xdslcmd configure --snr 150

about?

That increases your noise margin at sync time from the DSLAM setting.

I was just testing the command at that stage. I'm currently synced at 15884kb down, 1375kb up using the command: xdslcmd configure --snr 1 --mod m.

Edited by deleted (Sat 17-May-14 22:30:40)

Should be safe on LLU, I used to use --snr 1 on O2. It wouldn't be safe on BT Wholesale circuit.

Router quality! Limited sample! Compare with other Infineon non-Draytek routers.

Too many variables to determine which are correlated with speed.

All it proves is Draytek is better than rest you tried.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Router quality! Limited sample! Compare with other Infineon non-Draytek routers.

I forgot to mention the Netgear DGN1000 (infineon) also synced higher on my line than all the broadcom routers - it synced close to 17 meg which no broadcom router managed. How much more proof do you need that clearly proves infineon routers are superior on TT LLu lines? Like you i used to think matching router chipsets was just rubbish and happily used my Billion 7800N many moons ago. But as soon as i switched to a draytek 120v2 and synced a meg or two higher, i never went back to a non-infineon router again.

Just tried a Vigor 2800 which has a Conexant chipset I believe, and it synced at 10367kb down, 1984kb up. It seems to me that Broadcom modems dedicate more bandwidth to the downstream whereas other chipsets (Infineon and Conexant at least) give more of it to the upstream. Would this be correct?

In reply to a post by les70:

That is the latest version so you won't get much better. This rather dated review showed quite a variation between modems in upstream annex m performance. I found the HG's were a little better than DG834v4's. see http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/4144-how-fast-is-...

Going by that review, the ZyXEL P-660R-D1 would be the best choice for a decent downstream and upstream. Would you recommend it, or would the current Vigor 120 v2 I have be just as good, if not better?

I know the tests were carried out on the BE/O2 network, how different would it be from using the modems on CPW Broadcom DSLAMs, I can't find much information on CPWs Broadcom based hardware. All the info I can find seems to assume the DSLAM will be Infineon. Although I don't suppose the chipset is of much relevance given my experience with annex m so far.

I mentioned in my first post that I'd like a modem that would bridge PPPoA to PPPoE, it turns out this isn't needed as I appear to be able to connect via PPPoE directly.

In reply to a post by Anonymous3:

Going by that review, the ZyXEL P-660R-D1 would be the best choice for a decent downstream and upstream. Would you recommend it...

Based on the referenced review, I purchased a ZyXEL P-660R-D1.
My upstream sync (on O2 Pro) went from ~2000bps (various Broadcom chipset modems/routers) to ~2500bps (ZyXEL) - an unexpected 25% increase!
My line length is ~1300m to the exchange (~50m to the FTTC cabinet).

The (unlocked) Huawei HG612 is a versatile device (I sync'd @ ~20/1.3Mbps with a ~3dB target SNR on O2 Pro), but as already stated by les70, it doesn't support Annex M without CLI manipulation.
I have no knowledge of how well it performs on Annex M compared to the ZyXEL as I had already migrated to FTTC before discovering (with Batboy's guidance) how to setup Annex M support on the HG612.

Based on my 4 year experience with O2 Annex M, I wholeheartedly recommend the ZyXEL P-660R-D1.

In reply to a post by JimmyBoy:

In reply to a post by Anonymous3:

Going by that review, the ZyXEL P-660R-D1 would be the best choice for a decent downstream and upstream. Would you recommend it...

Based on the referenced review, I purchased a ZyXEL P-660R-D1.
My upstream sync (on O2 Pro) went from ~2000bps (various Broadcom chipset modems/routers) to ~2500bps (ZyXEL) - an unexpected 25% increase!
My line length is ~1300m to the exchange (~50m to the FTTC cabinet).

The (unlocked) Huawei HG612 is a versatile device (I sync'd @ ~20/1.3Mbps with a ~3dB target SNR on O2 Pro), but as already stated by les70, it doesn't support Annex M without CLI manipulation.
I have no knowledge of how well it performs on Annex M compared to the ZyXEL as I had already migrated to FTTC before discovering (with Batboy's guidance) how to setup Annex M support on the HG612.

Based on my 4 year experience with O2 Annex M, I wholeheartedly recommend the ZyXEL P-660R-D1.

Thanks, just bought a ZyXEL P-660R-D1 from Ebay. Got it for £10, so no big loss if it doesn't work out.

The P-660R-D1 arrived today, currently synced at 12955 kbps / 2083 kbps, so out of all the modems I've tried, this one gives me the best upstream and downstream on the default 6dB SNR margin.

I'm not sure if I should update the firmware though, or even what firmware I'd update it to. Looking at zyxel's website, the latest firmware seems to be "3.40(AGE.5)C0" released on May 27, 2011. Should I install this firmware or stick with what I have?

Current firmware: V3.40(ANZ.6) | 04/08/2009
Firmware list