Opinions and advice on adsl2+ wireless router

I'm looking to upgrade my netgear dg834g. I'm having problems where the connection pauses for some seconds, before loading a page.

I won't be upgrading to fibre anytime soon, so that isn't an issue for me. I currently don't have any ac devices, but I will soon be upgrading my 802.11b laptop.

I've been looking at combined modem/router/wireless models, but I'm not sure if I should make the shift to separates. Getting a separate modem seems like such a fuss, and for 12mb is it worth it?

I've been looking at the ASUS DSL-N66U, but I'm thinking it's a bit too over spec'd for my needs.

It's frustrating. Everything's about the shift to fibre, but I want something up-to-date and good for adsl2+.

Any tips?

Edited by deleted (Tue 01-Jul-14 22:26:45)

Are you sure it isn't just your laptop/browser getting clogged up with all the Microsoft updates, (particularly the Windows updates and security fixes), and the tendency for websites to pull in so much from multiple sources now?

I've always found that once I've had a machine a couple of years web browsing slows dramatically, however much house-keeping I do on it.

My latest is really slow rendering on IE 11 that started a couple of days ago. I meant to try comparing with Firefox but soon after I went to it I got interrupted and forgot .

It's something that happens on all devices. Ipad, Nook, phones etc. It was happening at Coms, and I was hoping the switch to Zen would fix things. But no.

Have you tried a factory reset on your Netgear? Any router can get screwed up now and then and need that.

(If you have any configuration changes you've made you need to backup the ini file first or else you will need to redo them afterwards).

With it already powered up and sync'ed, press the end of a straightened-up paperclip gently but firmly into the reset hole and hold the button inside down for 5-10 seconds. Lights will start flashing, so then remove the paperclip and wait for it to start up as normal.

Not guaranteed to work, but great if it does.

I've tried everything. Reset the router and changed the splitter, but it's still the same. I've spent the day on my old router, which is v2 of the dg834g. The current one is v4. And it's noticeably better, though not as fast as it should be.

The v4 may just be gone. But there's quite a lot of wireless around here. When I look to connect, I'm given 14 other options. I do get the full speed of my 12mb when downloading, but I want something that strengthens the connection, so it's quicker when loading pages.

I think the main issue is going to be you 802.11b device which will slow everything down.
You say you want something that strengthens the connection. I've found all routers have given me a very similar range coverage despite the claims. The main thing is that 802.11b is EXTREMELY slow, G is acceptable but N is really the minimum I would recommend.

I think going from 802.11b to N will be a huge improvement in itself.

As for a new router I would get an all in one device that's either N or AC ready.

Who is your ISP? The ISP supplied ones are usually pretty good. BT give out a dual band router now which I am using and is pretty flawless. Never locks up or needs a reboot.. The Sky hub also is very reliable and doesn't need rebooting in my experience. So if you're with a major ISP considering asking them for a router if that works out cheaper

Are you sure your laptop is wireless b? I am thinking it is possibly G and you've made a mistake. A b device would be very odd in this day and age.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Thu 03-Jul-14 01:38:45)

You haven't mentioned whether you have tried the Quiet Line Test, bearing in mind that the exposed phone lines can and do deteriorate.

The state of your line will affect the achievable speeds, whether ADSL or VDSL.

In reply to a post by paperclip:

The v4 may just be gone. But there's quite a lot of wireless around here. When I look to connect, I'm given 14 other options. I do get the full speed of my 12mb when downloading, but I want something that strengthens the connection, so it's quicker when loading pages.

Before you spend any money, it's well worth optimising what you have. You then have a baseline to work from.

Fire up a Google search and enter 'inssider free'. Download and install it and check where your device, and the WLAN channel it's using sits in relation to the other WLAN's around you. If you can, change your wireless channel to be as far away from the others as possible. It used to be the case that channel 6 was the most popular. I'm seeing channel 11 as the most popular these days with seemingly all the ISP supplied wireless routers using that channel.
As you've said you can achieve full line speeds with download throughput, your line is probably in a good state and it could be that the Netgear you're using is just giving up. It's certainly not unheard of.
Does your current router report 'remote vendor id' in the line stats? That could be useful for eeking out as much throughput and stability from your line as possible, through chipset matching. If you can provide those details, we can recommend a router with matching modem chipset.
I think it's fair to say that it's often the case that the router we choose is over specced for what we'd use it for. In my experience, the complexity of using these devices doesn't change, it's just the price tag that's higher. This can be mitigated by buying used though. Essentially, you're buying a device as it's been proven to work well in a number of scenarios. So although it may cost a little more and offer more than you need, it's a safe buy that could keep you in good stead for the future.

Paul

This is lots of good advice from everyone. Thanks. I'll be doing the suggested testing over the next few days.

eckiedoo, when I do the Quiet Line Test, is it best to leave the phone in the filter, or put it directly into the socket?

ukhardy07, I'm with Zen, and I'm on a pretty old laptop. I'm still using vista.

You should have the, preferably analogue, wired phone connected directly to the test socket on your master socket.

Paul

There's only one socket in the house, which is actually a double phone socket as there are two phone lines coming into the house. It's in the living room. I'll just assume that this is the master socket. I'll put the phone directly into this.


I've installed inssider Home v3.1.2.1 and it's telling me that I'm using 802.11g.

I moved my channel from 11 to 1 and my link score went from around 54 to 83.

My signal is around -45 dBm, my max rate 54 and I have the Atheros AR5B91 Wireless Network Adapter.

I have not seen any report for "remote vendor id". Under the heading Vendor, it just says Netgear Inc.

Some people have a channel number like 9+13, what does that mean?


This is very interesting! Thanks for suggesting the app.

9+13 means they have enabled 40GHz rather than 20GHz so can have 2 channels - a primary and a secondary 4 channels away. Effectively allowing double speed if your receiving kit can also handle it.

You may see one of the figures disappearing and re-appearing, as some WAPs turn off the secondary when the link is not in use.

Channel 13 I think is American. Not generally used in the UK.

I played around with it for a while but didn't find a significant improvement. It's also regarded as anti-social, as you can see from InSSIDer it covers twice the channels and possibly messes up more neighbours.

To do the QLT, you should preferably have the simplest (prob oldest) corded phone that you have.

If your NTE Box terminating the incoming Land Line is readily accessible, start there.

If it is the newer type with filters built in, remove that section to access the Test Socket behind, otherwise simply remove the plug taking the line onwards in your house.

Also if the problems mainly arise in wet weather, make sure that you do the QLT when it is raining etc.

For the QLT itself, try it both with and without a splitter.

Dial 17070

Select Option 2 (Option 4 if SKY)

Listen carefully - If it is silent or only a very low hum, your line is almost certainly OK.

If there are any untoward noises, eg "Snap, Crackle, Pop", Dialling Tones, Cross-Talk from other lines (both actual speech or modem/fax type signals) etc, you should report a VOICE PHONE Fault to whichever company you pay the LINE RENTAL to.

Avoid mentioning BROADBAND, keeping the emphasis on poor Voice Quality.

------------------------

If you think the line is OK, reconnect your internal wiring, then connect the test phone to an extension socket, repeating the QLT etc.

If you now here untoward noises, it they are arising either directly from your own equipment and/or wiring; or may be from an external source such as a plasma TV set etc.

An external source may be from a neighbour, depending on proximity etc - but less likely.


You have to now trace and eradicate the source/s - if possible!

==============================

The quality of your Land Line affects your Broadband, whether ADSL or VDSL, the latter more so because of the higher frequencies involve, so well worth doing, basically at No Cost, only your time - which need not be long.

Also it impinges on any Modem/Router, some are better, some are worse, at coping with such noises. But trying others would involve Costs and prolonged testing.

In my opinion, once you have established a good, clean, quiet line, it is worth repeating the QLT occasionally, say once per week or per month, just as you would the tyre pressures of a car.

The QLT only takes about 20 seconds when OK, is free etc.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Channel 13 I think is American. Not generally used in the UK.

13 is fine in the UK, but sadly not much equipment supports the channel as they are designed for international use.

I played around with it for a while but didn't find a significant improvement. It's also regarded as anti-social, as you can see from InSSIDer it covers twice the channels and possibly messes up more neighbours.

At 2.4 GHz its more friendly to use only one channel. Only N and later can do this.

At 5 GHz there are more channels and the range is so much less that at N 5 GHz it is worth using two channels, and in fact AC only uses 5GHz and multiple channels.

Good advice from other users.

With so many wireless devices using 2.4GHz, it's like a sewer these days with everything good and bad floating around in it, especially so if you are in a built-up area.

It's good to have the 5GHz option dual-band (HH5 has this if you go to BT Infinity) although I guess in time this will fill up too.

That's a promising start re the WLAN channels. Try it for a while and see if there is a tangible improvement in your browsing experience. If not, I'd give channel 3 and/ or 6 a try. The signal strength is pretty good, enough to max out an N connection.

With regards to the remote vendor ID, if you provide me with the version of DG834G you have, I'll check where you can find the detail, if at all. The version number will be on the bottom of the device, it'll be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or GT. I'm putting money on 3.

Paul

Edited by deleted (Fri 04-Jul-14 10:26:50)

You may be interested to know that the EE BrightBox 2 also covers both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz.

On both Bands, in the "Auto" Mode, it can switch from 2 Channel down to 1 Channel; and back.

At this moment, it is working on "6 + 2" and on "40".

I have seen "40 + 36" on the 5 GHz Band.

Both Bands are on "Auto", Security "WPA", WPA Mode "WPA/WPA2 MIXED MODE"

2.4 Band modes are "B+G+N"

5 Band modes are "A+N+AC"


Basically the settings are as generated when the BB2 was first connected, ie Default.


Whilst there are several 2.4 Band WiFi Circuits in the area, this 5 Band WiFi Circuit is the only one visible on inSSIDer etc; and strangely, my lady-wife's Laptop is the only one of 4 PCs and 1 Printer that uses the 5 Band, although it is the oldest at just over 4 years.


Keep in mind that the 5 GHz Band is more rapidly attenuated by structures; and has many more Channels, so is much less likely to get clogged up than the 2.4 MHz Band.

ADDENDUM
I should also have mentioned that when I received the BB2, I did ten "simultaneous" comparisons of signal strengths around the house and garden.

The 5 GHz signal was generally 10 db down on the 2.4 GHz signal, so the 5 GHz signal was decidedly weaker than the 2.4 GHz coming from the same BB2.

Thus the 5 GHz signal will NOT reach as far as the 2.4 GHZ signal, thus it is a "mixed blessing".

I was checking the SKY WiFi in a relative's house last week. The house is very solidly built, hefty stonework of the 1880s; but the house itself whilst large rooms, is not a "huge mansion".

The poor penetration of the SKY box's 2.4 GHz signal was a warning that 5 GHz might noot get further than "one room away" in such buildings.

Edited by deleted (Fri 04-Jul-14 13:15:41)

'Keep in mind that the 5 GHz Band is more rapidly attenuated by structures; and has many more Channels, so is much less likely to get clogged up than the 2.4 MHz Band. '

Very good advice from 'eckiedoo', I meant to mention that too, but forgot!

In reply to a post by youngsyp:

With regards to the remote vendor ID, if you provide me with the version of DG834G you have, I'll check where you can find the detail, if at all. The version number will be on the bottom of the device, it'll be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or GT. I'm putting money on 3.

v2 and v4. IIRC the Broadcom-based v4 shows it via telnet. I don't know about the AR7-based v2.

Ah yes, should have seen that! <\facepalm>

It appears that the v2 will also give up the goods via telnet. If the OP is comfortable with that, you're looking for the 'ATUC' and there's a list of what hex value reflects which chipset vendor here.

Paul

Edited by deleted (Fri 04-Jul-14 13:43:28)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Are you sure it isn't just your laptop/browser getting clogged up with all the Microsoft updates, (particularly the Windows updates and security fixes), and the tendency for websites to pull in so much from multiple sources now?

I've always found that once I've had a machine a couple of years web browsing slows dramatically, however much house-keeping I do on it.

My latest is really slow rendering on IE 11 that started a couple of days ago. I meant to try comparing with Firefox but soon after I went to it I got interrupted and forgot .

I must admit that a purge on targeted ads, seems to have made a fair improvement on my 6 year old Vista setup. I'm back to "almost new" responses now 'cos I guess less crud (cookies & graphics) are being downloaded. Not ad free but I was mainly fed up being targetted by sites I'd just visited (including my building soc!) telling me about the stuff I'd just looked at! Surely that will drive people away!

My normal speeds of Tesco BB (C&W) have improved by around 500Kbps - 1Mbps bumping my average up to 15Mbps.

If my experience is anything to go by a couple of hours checking the options on the ads including those on Thinkbroadband sorts the main players out and seems to have paid me dividends.

Still want to replace the Technicolor (Thompson) TG582n as it gets in a bind if it's on for much more than a week. Anyone any decent alternatives?

In reply to a post by paperclip:

I'm having problems where the connection pauses for some seconds, before loading a page.

Some DNS are sluggish. Have you tried changing them to public one?

Open DNS : 208.67.222.222 & 208.67.220.220
Google DNS: 8.8.8.8 & 8.8.4.4
Norton DNS: 198.153.192.40 & 198.153.194.40

Evening Brush

You may find that installing and running "Advanced SystemCare 7" can help a lot.-

http://www.iobit.com/advancedsystemcareper.php


After installing, do about 3 runs, consecutively, with "Disk Defrag" at the foot of right-hand column UNTICKED, as it can be lengthy, especially on an older PC.

That should get your PC to a good, operational condition.


Also, on the seond page accessed via "TOOLBOX", there are a few other facilities available on the FREE Version that can be selected; but again wait until you have sorted out the fundamentals.

Note that those marked "PRO" are NOT available in the FREE version.

=================

I have found ASC 7 very useful, particularly on my ASUS Windows 7 Netbook. It had slowed to a crawl; but is now back to almost new speed.

Run that or another Disk Defragmenter at some later time, when you don't want to use your PC for an hour or two, particularly if you choose a (Full) Defrag, rather than a short/quick one.