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Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Aug-14 15:54:14
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Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[link to this post]
 
Asus routers are supplied crippled on the 5GHz band.

They are supplied to only use 4 of the 17 channels available for use in the UK. It is possible to unlock the legal channels, but due to pressure from the FCC in America, users are being locked out from changing the locale such that it will become more complicated and dangerous to fix. This FCC pressure is being applied to all router makes, but what this has to do with routers that will never see the USA is beyond me.

Asus does not supply European routers for sale localised to each country - only one European country (Austria) has only 4 channels on 5GHz available, the rest lose out considerably.

UK retailers are not aware of this situation either.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 02-Aug-14 18:19:06
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
Interesting, my RT-AC68U has 14 channels to use on 5GHz. Perhaps because I'm running Merlin's firmware smile

You can use these commands to switch the whole thing to GB regulation mode:
wl country GB
nvram set pci/1/1/ccode=GB
nvram set pci/2/1/ccode=GB
nvram set wl_country_code=GB
nvram set wl0_country_code=GB
nvram set wl1_country_code=GB
nvram set regulation_domain=GB
nvram set regulation_domain_5G=GB
nvram set wl_reg_mode=off
nvram set wl0_reg_mode=off
nvram set wl1_reg_mode=off
nvram commit
service restart_wireless

but I ended up with less range, so reset back to EU defaults:
wl country EU
nvram set pci/1/1/ccode=EU
nvram set pci/2/1/ccode=EU
nvram set wl_country_code=EU
nvram set wl0_country_code=EU
nvram set wl1_country_code=EU
nvram set regulation_domain=EU
nvram set regulation_domain_5G=EU
nvram set wl_reg_mode=off
nvram set wl0_reg_mode=off
nvram set wl1_reg_mode=off
nvram commit
service restart_wireless

I use a Mac laptop which uses 802.11d region codes and if a nearby home is transmitting its a "USA" router, my Mac will hear that and limit itself to USA channels. So I like to have my own router (should be strongest for me) set correctly.

James - plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - Sync 55/9.4 (BT was 51/9.8)
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - PN BQM - PN speed - old BT speed
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Aug-14 18:30:00
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
Of course, you are right. I have done the same with my N66U. But out of the box it is crippled and how many people would know. I have actually removed all restrictions, but still operate it legally. I do not want to risk my ham licence.

With the next firmware update, including Merlin's (the wireless driver is closed source), the changes that you made will no longer work and it will revert back to EU. The only way around that will be to modify the CFE.

Could you please check how many 5GHz channels you have on EU - it should only be 4.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.

Edited by DrTeeth (Sat 02-Aug-14 18:33:17)


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Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 02-Aug-14 18:50:23
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
Could you please check how many 5GHz channels you have on EU - it should only be 4.

Telnet in and type
wl country

and it returns with
DE (EU/13) GERMANY


and in the web interface on the 5 GHz page I get:
36
40
44
48
52
56
60
64
100
104
108
112
132
136


Is that not right?

James - plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - Sync 55/9.4 (BT was 51/9.8)
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - PN BQM - PN speed - old BT speed

Edited by jchamier (Sat 02-Aug-14 18:51:04)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 02-Aug-14 19:27:39
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
On a bog-standard RT-N66U the channels I can select are 36; 40; 44; 48.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User billford
(elder) Sat 02-Aug-14 19:36:45
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
On a bog-standard RT-N66U the channels I can select are 36; 40; 44; 48.
Same here.

@ DrTeeth- I have to ask: does it matter?

5GHz isn't noted for its range if there's much more than a sheet of plasterboard in the way, and if I run iStumbler on the MacBook and practically hang it out of any upstairs window I still can't pick up any other 5GHz networks.

So why would I want 17 channels to choose from?

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Aug-14 20:16:07
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
Could you please check how many 5GHz channels you have on EU - it should only be 4.

Telnet in and type
wl country

and it returns with
DE (EU/13) GERMANY


Is that not right?

Your router is set to the German locale, which has the same power and channels as the UK. N66U routers are set to 'EU' which does not exist and gives only the four channels that Austria has.

Just out of interest, did you change the locale yourself or was the router a grey import?

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.

Edited by DrTeeth (Sat 02-Aug-14 20:29:27)

Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Aug-14 20:16:55
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
On a bog-standard RT-N66U the channels I can select are 36; 40; 44; 48.

Exactly. 17 are legal in the UK. Plus the power output at that false EU setting is half the legal UK output.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.

Edited by DrTeeth (Sat 02-Aug-14 20:26:00)

Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Aug-14 20:23:17
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by billford:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
On a bog-standard RT-N66U the channels I can select are 36; 40; 44; 48.
Same here.

@ DrTeeth- I have to ask: does it matter?

5GHz isn't noted for its range if there's much more than a sheet of plasterboard in the way, and if I run iStumbler on the MacBook and practically hang it out of any upstairs window I still can't pick up any other 5GHz networks.

So why would I want 17 channels to choose from?


Why did you buy a router with 5GHz wink? I have no problems with range on 5GHz, it covers my largish semi very well indeed - in fact it is better at some places in my house than 2.4GHz.

As to why you would want 17 channels - think about other people who do! You may be happy with the situation, others are not judging by the heavy traffic on this topic on other networking forums. You might not mind buying deliberately crippled kit and not being told about it, I *do* wink. 5GHz is likely to become more popular in future - the words 'future' and 'proofing' spings to mind.

Another thing, the EU restriction stops running the router at the max power allowed in the UK too. It's maximum is HALF the legal limit - only 1 'S' point, but "every little bit helps", as they say.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 02-Aug-14 20:28:27
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
Hmmm. Interesting re the power output.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User billford
(elder) Sat 02-Aug-14 20:41:40
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
Why did you buy a router with 5GHz wink?
I bought it for other reasons, the 5GHz was a bonus smile

I still don't think you've answered the question- multiple channels are needed on 2.4GHz because it's got quite a reasonable range, and there's a need to be able to avoid nearby routers running on the same frequency. Not to mention all the other stuff that uses the 2.4GHz band.

That doesn't apply to 5GHz (not to the same extent, anyway). Out of interest, there's a note in the manual (on the CD) for mine that says:
IMPORTANT! This device within the 5.15 ~ 5.25 GHz is restricted to indoor operations to reduce any potential for harmful interference to co-channel MSS operations.
Along with a load of EEC directives that I cba'd to look up- complaining that the EEC directives over-ride UK law is a pointless exercise.

So why, on a domestic device intended for indoor use only would you need 17 channels? Future proofing doesn't come into it, unless you're aware of plans to change the laws of physics in the next decade or so.


It sounds to me like "I can legally have it, therefore I want it even though I don't need it" [stamping feet]

And as for the traffic on other forums- a lot of people think that if you make enough noise about something, it must be right.

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6

Edited by billford (Sat 02-Aug-14 20:46:12)

Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Aug-14 20:55:57
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
Bill,

First, US routers are being sold to Singapore and there are many issues with 'wrong' locales'. It is not just a case of 'more noise'. You would not say so if you were aware of the issues involved.
Second, I do not like buying crippled kit.
Third, I wonder why Ofcom gave 17 valuable channels if they were not needed on 5GHz?
Fourth, EU directives do NOT over-ride anything wireless related of any significance in the UK. Just have a look at the national differences in the 5GHz band in Europe - both in channels and power.
Fifth, you sound like the sort of chap who thinks all cars should be limited to 70 mph as that is the max speed here wink.

And as for the traffic on other forums- a lot of people think that if you make enough noise about something, it must be right.

That comment does you no service mate. No further comment needed

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User billford
(elder) Sat 02-Aug-14 21:10:45
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
First, US routers are being sold to Singapore
That's Singapore's problem, it's up to them to check that they got what they ordered.
You would not say so if you were aware of these issues involved.
So what are these issues? Realistic examples please.
I do not like buying crippled kit.
You didn't. You bought kit to fit your requirements, if it didn't then you had the legal right to return it, under the Distance Selling Regulations if bought online. It's up to you to check it- it did what you wanted it to do, you accepted it therefore it fitted your requirements.

Finding out later that that certain options that were not part of your requirements are not included is no grounds for claiming the equipment is crippled- that's little more than pique.

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
Standard User Spud2003
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 02-Aug-14 21:31:30
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Same here -

[email protected]:/tmp/home/root# wl -i eth2 channels
36 40 44 48


Luckily I don't use 5GHz much.
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Aug-14 21:54:52
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
1) UK retailers are not aware of this issue. It is not possible to discover the issue any other way other than dabbling. I have removed **all** regional restrictions on my router so can operate it to proper UK spec. This facility for the end user to change the regulatory locale is being removed at the behest of the American FCC.
2) The Singaporean routers were supplied from a legit source. There have been similar issues with US models being supplied to Australia with Australian plugs.
3) The kit is crippled - I bought it assuming that it would be correctly localised - not an unreasonable assumption. Every time somebody buys some kit, do you seriously expect them to look for some slight of hand on behalf of the supply chain? One does not check if one does not have a reason to suspect something is amiss.

Finally, I would use the Sale of Goods act and not the DSR to return an item. I would also, in future, ask if something were correctly localised for UK use. A *major* online seller of Asus kit (and others) thinks the N66U is correctly set up so asking a box shifter will not get the correct answer, but one can use that answer for SoG Act action.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 02-Aug-14 22:10:22
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
I believe you, but why is the US FCC wanting this? (A request which many manufacturers would find hard to ignore).

I can understand it for US sales or supply, but as a general principle is this another example of the US believing it has a right to global control? A belief which unfortunately seems very well founded in many other areas than WiFi band allocation.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User billford
(elder) Sat 02-Aug-14 22:11:20
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
Every time somebody buys some kit, do you seriously expect them to look for some slight of hand on behalf of the supply chain?
I would expect them to check that it meets their requirements. If it doesn't meet a requirement that they have then they reject it. You didn't (and don't) have a requirement for 17 channels at 5GHz, therefore you have no complaint.
Finally, I would use the Sale of Goods act and not the DSR to return an item.
Then in this case you'd lose. Asus (although why you singled out Asus I don't know, you imply that it affects other manufacturers as well) claim that it operates on the 5GHz band. It does. It may not work the way you have (later) decided you would like it to, but that's your problem not Acer's.

I have a radio here with a switch labelled VHF(FM), ie implying that it will pick up FM broadcasts on the VHF band. It won't- it operates from 88-108MHz, VHF is from 30-300MHz. Do I jump up and down and claim that it's crippled? Of course not.
I would also, in future, ask if something were correctly localised for UK use.
That's fair enough, but you didn't. Caveat emptor, the device does all it is claimed to do.

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6

Edited by billford (Sat 02-Aug-14 22:15:20)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 02-Aug-14 22:18:04
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
I think it fair enough for a person who appears to be a radio ham to know what the UK regulations are wrt WiFi bands, and automatically to expect that items on sale here are compliant with those regulations. The fact that the majority of us aren't and wouldn't know without this thread is not the point.

Supplying a product that only uses a subset of the bands available is fair enough, but that restricted supply should be clear in the product description and at the point of sale.

I've a feeling that in the case of FM radio this is the case, but wouldn't claim to be sure.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Aug-14 22:32:34
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
I have a radio here with a switch labelled VHF(FM), ie implying that it will pick up FM broadcasts on the VHF band. It won't- it operates from 88-108MHz, VHF is from 30-300MHz. Do I jump up and down and claim that it's crippled? Of course not.
I would also, in future, ask if something were correctly localised for UK use.


Silly example as everybody knows that the receiver is referring to the VHF *broadcast* band http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/broadcast/vhff...

You would be right to be annoyed if you got a Japanese version for use in the UK though.


Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.

Edited by DrTeeth (Sat 02-Aug-14 22:39:32)

Standard User billford
(elder) Sat 02-Aug-14 22:33:15
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I think it fair enough for a person who appears to be a radio ham to know what the UK regulations are wrt WiFi bands, and automatically to expect that items on sale here are compliant with those regulations.
Not entirely… leaving aside that he only recently appears to have discovered the exact regulations and was happy up until then, your statement would be accurate if he were buying a piece of kit aimed at the expert and knowledgeable user.

But it isn't, it's aimed at the domestic user who can just about manage the setup wizard, and if it works they're happy. If you want all the i's dotted and the t's crossed, buy a Cisco.

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
Standard User billford
(elder) Sat 02-Aug-14 22:34:56
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
Silly example as everybody knows that the receiver is referring to the VHF *broadcast* band http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/broadcast/vhff...
Everybody? I very much doubt it.

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Aug-14 22:38:36
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
I believe you, but why is the US FCC wanting this? (A request which many manufacturers would find hard to ignore).

I can understand it for US sales or supply, but as a general principle is this another example of the US believing it has a right to global control? A belief which unfortunately seems very well founded in many other areas than WiFi band allocation.


I have no idea why the FCC is after this. The trouble is, it may be difficult or impossible to have this lockout for US routers only - Asus obviously finds it difficult to localise its routers correctly for Europe.

Have a look here http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/forumdisplay.php?f=37 for more info. I did just try to find the relevant posts, but there are several threads buzzing with this and the search would not find 'FCC' - the NSA strikes again?

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Aug-14 22:40:53
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by billford:
]Everybody? I very much doubt it.

If you weren't a mod you'd be banned for trolling. Take some meds and go to bed early.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sat 02-Aug-14 22:41:33
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
?
He isn't a mod tongue.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User billford
(elder) Sat 02-Aug-14 22:44:42
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
If you weren't a mod
I hope you're more up to fate with radio regulations than you are with this bbs:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/newsite/t/4219415-t...

laugh

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6

Edited by billford (Sat 02-Aug-14 22:45:43)

Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Aug-14 22:47:27
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz *DELETED*


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by MrSaffron
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Aug-14 22:49:14
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
?
He isn't a mod tongue.

No. You can see why in his trolling..

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User billford
(elder) Sat 02-Aug-14 22:56:01
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
Don't be silly. Who said I have only just discovered the regs?
Nobody, I inferred it. Wrongly, but these things happen.

But it reinforces my point- if you'd had a requirement for all 17 channels on 5GHz you'd have checked when it was delivered and found they weren't there.

Did you find out later for yourself that there were only 4, or did someone else bring it to your attention? And how long had you been using the router with only those channels?

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6

Edited by billford (Sat 02-Aug-14 22:56:51)

Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 02-Aug-14 23:09:08
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
Your questions are not really relevant. I'll tell you why. I found out about this restriction a long time ago, very soon after I had got the router. It was not an issue at all as they could be removed VERY easily. Had they not been so I would have returned the router under the SoG Act.

It only became an issue when it became apparent that the latest firmwares will block such attempts to remove the restrictions. Remember - these routers are NOT correctly localised.

Now one will have to download the CFE, hack it with a hex editor and reflash it back to the router - just to get one's router to be legal in one's own country.

Also remember that these restrictions also affect the maximum power output and not just the number of channels. I decided to bring the issue with these routers and maybe others that are not correctly localised to the attention of my fellow forum members for their benefit - who I would imaging would not assume for a million years that their new and shiny router was pawer and channel restricted.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User billford
(elder) Sat 02-Aug-14 23:18:50
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
OK, fair enough.

I agree with what you say, I'd prefer to see all legal channels available as well (and I don't need them either tongue). What annoyed me was your post header and the way it referred explicitly to Asus, as if they were the prime culprit, and other other manufacturers just got an oblique reference. And later implications that they were involved in sleight of hand.

Your real beef is with the FCC is it not? So why didn't you make that clear from the start?

Your OP was pure clickbait, and I'll admit I fell for it, mea culpa frown


eta- I don't have any particular flag to carry for Asus, I just don't like seeing a reputable manufacturer being unfairly denigrated.

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6

Edited by billford (Sat 02-Aug-14 23:23:12)

Standard User MCM
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 02-Aug-14 23:26:52
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
As are Netgears. Chs 36, 40, 44 & 48
Standard User MCM
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 02-Aug-14 23:31:56
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
just to get one's router to be legal in one's own country.
The router is totally legal as supplied.
Standard User sfo32
(newbie) Sun 03-Aug-14 00:05:49
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
There may be a misunderstanding here. Maybe on my part of course!

I was under the impression that there are only 4 non-overlapping and non-interfering 20Mhz channels for indoor use in the UK [Band A - Lower]. These are 36, 40, 44 and 48 and are the only channels that most domestic 5Ghz APs allow you to select from. Output power is restricted to 200mW.

Note how the channels go up in steps of 4. ("Channels" go up in 5Mhz steps)

The centre frequency of channel 36 is 5180. The centre frequency of channel 48 is 5240.

Allowing a domestic user to set the AP to use a channel with a centre frequency that potentially causes overlap with another AP is counter-productive - I can't think of a good reason to do so. With indoor range at 5Ghz being relatively limited, the possibility of needing to select even slightly overlapping channels in a domestic environment is pretty minimal, surely? And indeed this is why (unlike the case for 2.4Ghz) domestic APs usually stick to 4 channels.

In fact if you look at the majority of charts and tables and whatnot for 5Ghz that you'll find in various places, most show 4 channels being available with a 20Mhz bandwidth, or 2 channels at 40Mhz.

So my take on this is that domestic 5Ghz APs are not really crippled - they are simply protecting the user from doing something that might cause them problems. Of course users with no knowledge are likely not to change the channel at all and may end up with two APs on the same channel, but that's another story!
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 03-Aug-14 00:34:57
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
Your router is set to the German locale, which has the same power and channels as the UK. N66U routers are set to 'EU' which does not exist and gives only the four channels that Austria has.

Just out of interest, did you change the locale yourself or was the router a grey import?


My N66U was given to my parents and I bought the AC66U from Amazon.co.uk in March. The wifi is the same as factory apart from Merlin's firmware. YMMV.

I played around trying to get best range, as 2.4GHz is unusable here (I live in flats) but 5GHz is great, and I wanted the best range, but factory reset (with Merlin software) and 5GHz has been fine on my iPhone 5s and iPad.

The box has CE approval, so legal for EU sale.

James - plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - Sync 55/9.4 (BT was 51/9.8)
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - PN BQM - PN speed - old BT speed
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Sun 03-Aug-14 00:36:55
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: sfo32] [link to this post]
 
According to Apple
Channels

Channels 1-11, 36-48, and 149-165 approved for use in the United States and Canada
Channels 1-13, 36-64, and 100-140 approved for use in Japan
Channels 1-13, 36-64, 100-112, and 132-140 approved for use in Europe
Channels 1-13, 36-64, and 149-165 approved for use in Australia, Hong Kong, and New Zealand



______________________________________________________________________________________False_Authority_Syndrome__________________
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 03-Aug-14 00:41:52
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
My take on that is that they are ruling out the top Band A frequencies to avoid overlapping with Band B, and for some reason don't want to use Band B. Possibly to do with the power level. Cutting out half the Band A channels does however seem a little drastic.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User billford
(elder) Sun 03-Aug-14 00:43:32
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by BatBoy:
According to Apple
Channels

Channels 1-11, 36-48, and 149-165 approved for use in the United States and Canada
Channels 1-13, 36-64, and 100-140 approved for use in Japan
Channels 1-13, 36-64, 100-112, and 132-140 approved for use in Europe
Channels 1-13, 36-64, and 149-165 approved for use in Australia, Hong Kong, and New Zealand
According to Wiki, channels 1-14 are OK in Japan.

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
Standard User billford
(elder) Sun 03-Aug-14 00:59:23
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
And following on what sfo32 said, only three 2.4GHz channels (1,6 and 11) are recommended for use as non-overlapping (in the UK anyway, don't know about Japan).

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6

Edited by billford (Sun 03-Aug-14 01:00:06)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 03-Aug-14 02:00:01
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
Which has always sounded like garbage to me, as each if those has a cluster with by definition maximum interference between every member of the cluster. Go for an intermediate channel and you have weaker signals on your peripheral channels, and almost zero on your chosen one.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User rhetherington
(member) Sun 03-Aug-14 09:15:52
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
I have no idea why the FCC is after this. The trouble is, it may be difficult or impossible to have this lockout for US routers only - Asus obviously finds it difficult to localise its routers correctly for Europe.


It's not so much an Asus problem as a Qualcomm/Atheros one. Because they sell their wireless chipsets to manufacturers that supply routers all over the world they supply the chipsets without a regulatory domain set.

Without a regulatory domain in the chipset the router OS defaults to using a worldwide one that is set to the lowest common denominator (which is similar to the US in terms of frequencies, but with lower power output) so as not to break the law anywhere in the world.

It's possible for the Linux system running on the router to ignore this worldwide regulatory domain and use the settings for the router locale, but i think there's some sort of legal or license obligation that prevents distros and router firmwares from actually shipping with this.

I know that for OpenWrt there's a script you can run after installation that will patch the kernel to allow you to set your locale and have it apply the correct channels/power output.

That's the situation today, although i'm sure i read somewhere that the FCC is trying to get hardware locks into the actual wifi chips because of worries over software-defined radio, but i can't seem to find where i read it now.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 03-Aug-14 09:57:02
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz *DELETED*


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted for language that may offend

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 03-Aug-14 10:59:30
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
My take on that is that they are ruling out the top Band A frequencies to avoid overlapping with Band B, and for some reason don't want to use Band B. Possibly to do with the power level. Cutting out half the Band A channels does however seem a little drastic.


Most people here are only looking at N66U at 5 GHz. On 2.4GHz there is not sufficient spectrum free in most built up areas for many people to run "dual channel" mode (40mhz). At 5GHz there is generally space, unless you live in flats and have two 5GHz routers side by side through a wall (yes, I've seen this).

I have the AC68U which is where the industry is heading, as AC WiFi uses many more mhz, bonding 4 or more channels to get 900megabit or higher theoretical speeds.

My parents have the N66U and running wl -i eth2 channels shows 36 40 44 48 running Merlin's software, with the wl country command returning "EU (EU/5) <unknown>"

My AC68U is different, and the same commands show 36 40 44 48 52 56 60 64 100 104 108 112 116 132 136 140 and "DE (EU/13) GERMANY"

Yes, these devices are running Merlin's version, but the wireless stuff didn't change. Merlin in fact exposes a setting in the web interface on my AC68U and I think on the N66U on the professional tab to set the regulatory domain, mine is 80211d+h and I'm pretty sure all my settings are factory defaults.

James - plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - Sync 55/9.4 (BT was 51/9.8)
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - PN BQM - PN speed - old BT speed
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sun 03-Aug-14 20:14:39
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz *DELETED*


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I would just like to apologise to you MrSaffron, Bill and everybody else here for my offensive post.

DrT

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User sfo32
(newbie) Sun 03-Aug-14 23:43:13
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
The higher Band A channels (52 to 64) require the use of DFS and TPC in the UK, don't they? And if the pro 5Ghz gear I use is anything to go by, this is a major pain in the bottom to implement in a way that doesn't cause problems. This may be another reason why they don't tend to get implemented.
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Mon 04-Aug-14 17:13:40
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: sfo32] [link to this post]
 
It is pure laziness. All legal channels can be enabled with a few lines of code. Also, at the (fake) EU setting, the power of both 2.4 and 5 GHz is half the legal limit.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 06-Aug-14 09:13:37
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
thanks, thats a lot more commands than was given on merlin's forums.

before your commands wl country gave me EU
now it gives GB, hopefully my wireless will perform better now.

MErlin still refuses to add this to the GUI tho so it remains cLI only, I have added them to a script on my router usb stick should I need to reapply this again.

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 06-Aug-14 09:28:31
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
it seems whenever I make a change in the GUI, the country is reverted back to EU.

Standard User Mitchy_mitch
(experienced) Wed 06-Aug-14 11:00:05
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Thought id take a look on my rt-ac68u before & after the latest "Merlin" update.

ASUSWRT-Merlin RT-AC68U_3.0.0.4 Sat Jun 7 16:32:17 UTC 2014
[email protected]:/tmp/home/root# wl -i eth2 channels
36 40 44 48 52 56 60 64 100 104 108 112 116 132 136 140
[email protected]:/tmp/home/root# Connection closed by foreign host.


ASUSWRT-Merlin RT-AC68U_3.0.0.4 Sun Aug 3 23:40:20 UTC 2014
[email protected]:/tmp/home/root# wl -i eth2 channels
36 40 44 48 52 56 60 64 100 104 108 112 116 132 136 140

All i have done is loaded the latest firmware, and everything has remained the same regarding the wireless channels. I do not know if this is due to merlin or not.

____________________________________________

Huawei B222s-42 connected to ASUS RT-AC68U
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3141683986
Standard User Huldin_the_Goth
(newbie) Wed 06-Aug-14 12:31:04
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
The reason the upper channels are not accessible is because this part of the 5GHz band contains radar systems. These channels are subject to DFS requirements.

These DFS requirements are complex and costly to get regulatory certification from FCC/ETSI. Following are the typical requirements for access points (AP) operating on 5GHz DFS channel:

Before starting operation on DFS channel, scan the channel for Radar devices for 1 minute. If radar is detected follow step 4 otherwise start operation of DFS channel.

Must detect non-Wi-Fi Radar devices with pulse width as small as 5us

When radar device are detected stop operation on the channel within 500 milliseconds.

For AP vendors, this also means informing wireless clients to move away from this channel.

Do not become operational of this DFS channel for at least 30 minutes and after that go to step 1 before becoming operational again.

Given the above complexity many small office-home office vendors as well as some enterprise AP vendors don’t allow operation on DFS channels in the 5GHz band at all. Many client devices are also not certified for DFS band operation. Even when APs are certified and support DFS channels AP vendors often recommend operation exclusively on non-DFS channels given the uncertainty of DFS channels support at the client device level.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 06-Aug-14 21:06:10
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: Mitchy_mitch] [link to this post]
 
I am ok now I typo'd on the commit command.

Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 06-Aug-14 22:41:37
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
thanks, thats a lot more commands than was given on merlin's forums.

I spent a lot of time searching various forums and logged all those.

I did run with GB for a while but found 5GHz range was reduced, significantly, and I only live in a flat. The beamforming option on my AC68U was also problematic. So I factory reset and haven't touched since, and I get good 5GHz across my flat - so I can ignore 2.4, which is great, as 2.4 is unusable at weekend. Too many kids with ancient nintendo devices nearby :-/

James - plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - Sync 55/9.4 (BT was 51/9.8)
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - PN BQM - PN speed - old BT speed
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Wed 06-Aug-14 23:15:08
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
it seems whenever I make a change in the GUI, the country is reverted back to EU.

The latest firmwares, when rebooted, take the country from the CFE boot code and reset any manual tweaks. The last Merlin firmware NOT to do this is 376.43. I have never run the stock firmware so am unsure when this was brought in by Asus.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Wed 06-Aug-14 23:17:35
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by jchamier:
I did run with GB for a while but found 5GHz range was reduced, significantly, and I only live in a flat. The beamforming option on my AC68U was also problematic. So I factory reset and haven't touched since, and I get good 5GHz across my flat - so I can ignore 2.4, which is great, as 2.4 is unusable at weekend. Too many kids with ancient nintendo devices nearby :-/

The wireless driver in Merlin's software does not work with the GB locale well. I set mine to Iceland for a while as a) it worked and b) vy similar regs to the UK.
At the moment, I have no regional restrictions on my router - but operating it legally for the UK.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 08-Aug-14 13:23:06
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: jchamier] [link to this post]
 
so you found 5ghz gimped on GB and better on default EU?

thats bizarre.

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 08-Aug-14 13:24:15
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
whats the country code for iceland? and how to remove all regional restrictions smile

Edited by Chrysalis (Fri 08-Aug-14 13:24:57)

Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Fri 08-Aug-14 20:41:30
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
whats the country code for iceland? and how to remove all regional restrictions smile


Iceland = IS

Commands to remove all regional restrictions:-
nvram set pci/1/1/ccode=#a
nvram set pci/2/1/ccode=#a
nvram set pci/1/1/regrev=0
nvram set pci/2/1/regrev=0
nvram set wl0_country_code=#a
nvram set wl0_country_rev=0
nvram set wl0_reg_mode=off
nvram set wl1_country_code=#a
nvram set regulation_domain=#a
nvram set regulation_domain_5G=#a
nvram set wl1_country_rev=0
nvram set wl1_reg_mode=off
nvram commit
reboot

Enjoy wink.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User jchamier
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 08-Aug-14 20:49:44
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
so you found 5ghz gimped on GB and better on default EU?

I'm using an AC68U rather than an N66U. My parents have my old N66U when I upgraded, and I never had a problem running GB - but see Dr Teeth's response that the wireless driver in Merlin's build isn't great with GB setting.

The AC68U supports a LOT more complexity at 5GHz and the beamforming options are in Merlin's GUI that Asus leave out. Those are enough to halve your range/performance if wrong :-/

James - plusnet unlimited fibre - 2 Jun 14 - 470m - Sync 55/9.4 (BT was 51/9.8)
15 years broadband (1999 ntl:cable trial) - Asus RT-AC68U with HG612 - PN BQM - PN speed - old BT speed
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sat 09-Aug-14 00:12:34
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
ok thanks but I am confused, you said if rebooting the overide tweaking is undone meaning if I ran all those commands the reboot would put me back on EU?

Is the reboot required to apply the new country code?

Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 09-Aug-14 14:41:13
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
ok thanks but I am confused, you said if rebooting the overide tweaking is undone meaning if I ran all those commands the reboot would put me back on EU?

Only if you are on Merlin's 376.44 or later and the Asus equivalent. I am staying on Merlin's 374.43 and the changes DO survive a reboot.
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
Is the reboot required to apply the new country code?

See the last command wink.
Would you like a copy of the country codes, available channels and power levels?

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.

Edited by DrTeeth (Sat 09-Aug-14 15:03:25)

Standard User caffn8me
(knowledge is power) Sat 09-Aug-14 16:05:20
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
On a bog-standard RT-N66U the channels I can select are 36; 40; 44; 48.
FWIW it's the same on a Draytek 2860n+ I have on one site.

I havent seen what effect changing to another EU country has as I'm running beta firmware and don't want to stray too far from what is essential.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 09-Aug-14 16:27:14
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by caffn8me:
FWIW it's the same on a Draytek 2860n+ I have on one site.
I havent seen what effect changing to another EU country has as I'm running beta firmware and don't want to stray too far from what is essential.

You will get more channels and more power output. The four channels that you have are the lowest common denominator across Europe along with the lower power output.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sat 09-Aug-14 18:48:03
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
well I ran the commands before from the first post, and that has no reboot, the router reports with wl_country it is set to GB.

But if you say a reboot is needed to actually apply to wifi, I accept it, I was just trying to confirm thanks smile

and yes I wont be moving to 376.44, I even want to avoid all the 376.xx builds altogether, I am still on 374.40.

376.44 also has removed all the ipv6 patches as well, its a nasty version I think, I suggested to merlin to stick to an older asus code base (since asus are going in a bad direction now) and that will also lower his workload, but he is worried about supporting newer asus routers (which requires new codebase) and complying with the FCC.

Edited by Chrysalis (Sat 09-Aug-14 18:49:54)

Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 09-Aug-14 20:14:00
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
well I ran the commands before from the first post, and that has no reboot, the router reports with wl_country it is set to GB.

But if you say a reboot is needed to actually apply to wifi, I accept it, I was just trying to confirm thanks smile

and yes I wont be moving to 376.44, I even want to avoid all the 376.xx builds altogether, I am still on 374.40.

376.44 also has removed all the ipv6 patches as well, its a nasty version I think, I suggested to merlin to stick to an older asus code base (since asus are going in a bad direction now) and that will also lower his workload, but he is worried about supporting newer asus routers (which requires new codebase) and complying with the FCC.

A reboot may not be necessary in all seriousness, but I have noticed strange goings on after I have made changes to various settings. Some are applied with a reboot and some without. I just reboot as a routine TBH. I remember that post, but under a different handle IIRC wink.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Sat 09-Aug-14 22:43:32
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
I rebooted now anyway, and this also fixed a weird ipv6 issue that was occurring as well. Although I am still on the GB setting, later maybe tomorrow will try iceland and then the removal to see if I notice any difference.

Basically at the moment (at least before reboot, not tested after) If I have 5ghz set to 20/40/80 width the phone only connects at 20 width 72mbps, if I force to 40 it connects at 150 but throughput is the same as 72. In addition 5ghz throughput has stalls and is slower than 2.4.

Standard User caffn8me
(knowledge is power) Sun 10-Aug-14 00:42:08
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
You will get more channels and more power output. The four channels that you have are the lowest common denominator across Europe along with the lower power output.
In this particular case it's not worth it. The 5GHz is only used for when I am on site doing system administration if I don't run an ethernet cable.

The 2.4GHz wireless is what is in constant use by handheld Verifone credit card terminals which don't support 5GHz anyway.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sun 10-Aug-14 19:41:34
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by caffn8me:
]In this particular case it's not worth it. The 5GHz is only used for when I am on site doing system administration if I don't run an ethernet cable.

The 2.4GHz wireless is what is in constant use by handheld Verifone credit card terminals which don't support 5GHz anyway.


If you change 2.4 GHz to GB or similar, you won't get more channels, but you will/should get double the power output.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User caffn8me
(knowledge is power) Sun 10-Aug-14 21:22:55
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In this situation, more power brings no advantages, only disadvantages. More power is not always better.

Best security practice is to use the lowest power that provides the coverage needed. Too high a power will make the signal visible further away outside the premises and will make it more likely that third parties will attempt to compromise it. My job is to minimize that risk.

I would far rather nobody in nearby buildings, particularly residential, knew the network was there.

The handheld terminals work as they should even at the limits of the site so there's no need to look at upgrading the power.

Even if I wanted to change it, the country code cannot be changed within the standard Draytek firmwre.

You are assuming that whatever country code the router has, it has crippled the maximum power output. This may not be the case. The restriction on 5GHz channels may be just that; a restriction on possible channels, rather than power output.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sun 10-Aug-14 21:35:33
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by caffn8me:
My job is to minimize that risk.

Better arrest anybody iffy looking with a mutli-elelent yagi or a parabolic dish under their mac then wink. Better still, fit a Faraday cage?

Seriously, doubling the power would not make that much difference in your scenario, it is 1/2 an S point after all.

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.

Edited by DrTeeth (Sun 10-Aug-14 21:36:46)

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Fri 15-Aug-14 06:25:21
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
ok drteeth thanks.

After some testing here is what was happening.

On default EU this happened.

when set to 20/40/80 mode phones all only connected at 20mhz, 72mbps. throughput also was less reliable than 2.4ghz with random stalls.
when set to 40mhz fixed width phones connected at 150mbps but throughput was no faster than 20mhz.
when set to fixed 80mhz phones only connected at 20mhz, so I concluded issue is with 80mhz mode.
In addition channel was forced to channel 36 with no extension channel, it ignored the channel I chose in the GUI when using either 80mhz or 20/40/80mhz modes.

On GB, same as above but with less stalls so more consistent throughput.
On IS same as above but got bit higher speeds and noticebly higher signal strength. (full bars)

Unregulated, the 20/40/80 and 80 is fixed, they work properly my channel setting works and I get the extension channel as well. Speeds are actually significantly higher than 20mhz mode as well. Although still not quite as fast as the hh5 achieved.

It does seem asus routers are in a mess, is very volatile wifi and ipv6 code at the moment, and they are trying to lock down these routers which seems to have broken things quite badly.

I didnt need to reboot.

Edited by Chrysalis (Fri 15-Aug-14 06:26:09)

Standard User Chrysalis
(legend) Wed 27-Aug-14 18:58:43
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
seems merlin has ignored what you reported about the merlin driver been broken, sadly he seems over concerned only about american users.

Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Thu 28-Aug-14 19:15:43
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
seems merlin has ignored what you reported about the merlin driver been broken, sadly he seems over concerned only about american users.

The wireless driver is closed source so he cannot do anything about the wireless drivers. For some strange reason, he has always been reluctant to make locale changing easier.

I'm sticking with 376.43 drivers modified by 'john' for the moment. I will only modify CFE under duress as I cannot risk bricking my router unless I have a known good one on standby. Teenagers without the internet at chez DrT? Shudder wink.

Cheers

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User eckiedoo
(experienced) Thu 28-Aug-14 21:39:35
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
Evening Bill

I have had similar experiences with the EE Brightbox 2 on 5 GHz, also seemingly restricted to those four Channels.

Like you, I have not detected other 5 GHZ Channels in use in the area, yet the BB indulges in channel-hopping and pairing - acknowledging I don't know what other transmission types or interference there may be on 5 GHz.

Our laptop with 5 GHz defaulted to that Band when first logged in to the BB's 2.4 GHZ signal, by some sort of internal pairing at the BB.

In practice, the 5 GHz Band was not as satisfactory, so I suppressed that choice on the laptop, with now much improved 2.4 GHz performance.
Standard User billford
(elder) Thu 28-Aug-14 21:53:43
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Never had any problem at all with 5GHz- rock steady and it's got enough range even if I use the MacBook in the garden, but that doesn't happen often.

The only LAN devices that connect at 2.4GHz are a couple of Airplay speakers and an old laptop, none of which are equipped to run at 5GHz anyway.

edit- And the Kindle, nearly forgot that!

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6

Edited by billford (Thu 28-Aug-14 22:13:59)

Standard User Brammers
(member) Sat 30-Aug-14 10:23:44
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by DrTeeth:
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
seems merlin has ignored what you reported about the merlin driver been broken, sadly he seems over concerned only about american users.

The wireless driver is closed source so he cannot do anything about the wireless drivers. For some strange reason, he has always been reluctant to make locale changing easier.

I'm sticking with 376.43 drivers modified by 'john' for the moment. I will only modify CFE under duress as I cannot risk bricking my router unless I have a known good one on standby. Teenagers without the internet at chez DrT? Shudder wink.

Cheers


I modified my CFE using the thread from merlin's forum site.

It really isn't hard:

1) dump your CFE to file and copy to usb stick (via SSH)
2) Open HXD on windows, load cfe bin file from usb and change two occurrences of EU to IS
3) put usb stick back into router and flash using command on the site.
4) Reboot router

I also factory reset at this point (I was due one anyway).

Be very careful if downloading a CFE from the site and editing MAC addresses etc. ... I can imagine that will be more difficult to get right.

If you can use busybox via SSH you'll be fine.

J

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Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Sat 30-Aug-14 23:21:13
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: Brammers] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Brammers:
I modified my CFE using the thread from merlin's forum site.

It really isn't hard:

1) dump your CFE to file and copy to usb stick (via SSH)
2) Open HXD on windows, load cfe bin file from usb and change two occurrences of EU to IS
3) put usb stick back into router and flash using command on the site.
4) Reboot router

I also factory reset at this point (I was due one anyway).

Be very careful if downloading a CFE from the site and editing MAC addresses etc. ... I can imagine that will be more difficult to get right.

If you can use busybox via SSH you'll be fine.

J


Thanks for that. I may give it a go. Can you confirm that you did it for the N66U as one of the utilities that one has to use come from another model's download.

TIA

DrT

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
Standard User Brammers
(member) Sun 31-Aug-14 22:51:15
Print Post

Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: DrTeeth] [link to this post]
 
It was the RT-N66U (my CFE happens to be 1.0.1.3).

The only extra tool I needed was HXD for windows to do the hex editing.

All other tools are already built into the N66U (as it runs a MIPS chip).

Dump command:
dd if=/dev/mtd0 of=/tmp/original_cfe1.bin

Flash command:
mtd-write -i new_cfe.bin -d pmon

(obviously change the paths/filenames to suit).

I'd upgrade my CFE to 1.01.4 or 1.0.1.9, but without some clearly stated benefits - why risk the brick?

J

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Speedtest
Standard User DrTeeth
(knowledge is power) Mon 01-Sep-14 21:15:08
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Re: Asus routers crippled on 5GHz


[re: Brammers] [link to this post]
 
Mni tnx.

DrT

Stress - the condition brought about by having to resist the temptation to beat the living daylights out of someone who richly deserves it.
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