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Standard User leej
(regular) Mon 15-Sep-14 10:49:31
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Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N devices


[link to this post]
 
I've just had FTTC enabled. I'm getting 70Mbps down, and if I put my Billion 7800n wireless router in wifi-N mode, the wireless N devices enjoy the full 70Mbps downstream speed. Unfortunately, I have two G devices, so I need G+N mode... but as soon as the G devices connect they slow down the N devices. I understand this is expected behaviour with most if not all routers out there.

I'm just wondering if there is a router in existence which lets you connect G devices without slowing down N devices.
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Mon 15-Sep-14 13:42:34
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: leej] [link to this post]
 
Hi, I'm also having similar problems.
See my post here (just updated): http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4357957-tp-...

Try reducing the channel width as suggested to see if things improve for you smile

Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 15-Sep-14 13:57:30
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
A separate router for G is the way to go IMO


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Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Mon 15-Sep-14 14:12:35
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I think you're right!
This is the first 'N' router I've had and didn't realise these issues existed frown

I'm going to try to run CAT5 for TVs to reduce the need to wifi!

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 15-Sep-14 15:45:21
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: leej] [link to this post]
 
What about adding a 2.4GHz WAP and running the G devices off that?

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Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 56.6/14.1Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

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Standard User leej
(regular) Mon 15-Sep-14 19:06:27
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Wouldn't this add latency? I'm thinking it might be an issue with one of the devices being a PS3.
Standard User BatBoy
(legend) Mon 15-Sep-14 19:09:06
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: leej] [link to this post]
 
You mean in addition to the normal wifi latency? No.


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Standard User leej
(regular) Mon 15-Sep-14 19:11:49
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
Reducing the channel width to 20MHZ makes no difference unfortunately. As soon as I switched on my wifi-G printer, my wifi-N computers were all hit with a downstream slowdown.
Standard User leej
(member) Mon 15-Sep-14 19:12:22
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Really? I'll give it a go then.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Mon 15-Sep-14 21:15:15
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: leej] [link to this post]
 
Just to make a point I believe a lot of routers are no longer affected by this g device slowdown. A lot of the cheaper routers and early spec N ones are.

Certainly I do not experience it with a sky hub. Having a g device connected makes no different to the throughout I am getting at wireless N of around 50Mbps.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 15-Sep-14 21:15:46)

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Mon 15-Sep-14 21:21:02
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: leej] [link to this post]
 
To prevent g device slowdown the router needs a more complicated antenna design. I believe a lot of routers have mimo antenna design such as the AirPort Extreme and wouldn't be affected by the g device slowdown. Likewise many ISP supplied routers are also good presumably to stop disgruntled customers

Somebody step in if I'm wrong but I personally don't see this slowdown at all.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 15-Sep-14 21:21:49)

Standard User leej
(member) Tue 16-Sep-14 00:47:12
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
I don't think that is right at all. My Billion 7800n has MIMO (as I believe all wireless-n routers with more than one antenna do). I also have a rather ancient Netgear DG834N which also supports MIMO and is also affected by the G slowdown.

Edited by leej (Tue 16-Sep-14 00:49:16)

Standard User leej
(member) Tue 16-Sep-14 00:54:25
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Just to make a point I believe a lot of routers are no longer affected by this g device slowdown. A lot of the cheaper routers and early spec N ones are.


Why do you believe this? Can you name a specific make and model of router which isn't affected by this problem?

Certainly I do not experience it with a sky hub. Having a g device connected makes no different to the throughout I am getting at wireless N of around 50Mbps.


Your wireless N speeds should be a lot faster than 50Mbps. The Wireless G ceiling is 54Mbps.

Wireless N here connects at 300Mbps, and internet throughput is at the maximum (70Mbps). As soon as a G device is connected, the N speeds drop to around 50Mbps.

Edited by leej (Tue 16-Sep-14 00:55:09)

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Tue 16-Sep-14 01:01:03
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: leej] [link to this post]
 
My sky hub has a wifi transmit rate of 144Mbps.

I get 50Mbps on speedtest using 2.4Ghz and a sky hub with a wireless N device connected

Also with 20 wireless devices connected, of which 4 are wireless G I STILL get the same 50Mbps speedtest as having just one N device connected.

I don't get 70Mbps as firstly it's not 40Mhz the sky router but also probably due to high 2.4Ghz utilisation around here.

So for me absolutely no difference.

I do have a 5ghz router hooked upto the sky hub which gives me 70Mbps or above.

As for standard wireless N router, the sky hub. Mines the same regardless. 50Mbps both times.

Same with my BT homehub 4. Exactly the same results as above.

The only thing that slows things down is when a b device connects in my experience.
Standard User leej
(member) Tue 16-Sep-14 12:14:35
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev *DELETED*


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by leej

Edited by leej (Tue 16-Sep-14 12:15:18)

Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Tue 16-Sep-14 12:26:52
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: leej] [link to this post]
 
You deleted your post but it's still in my email

You said

"If I force my router into wifi-G mode, all of my devices connect at around 50Mbps too. Connnection speed only degrades over distance."

Yes I agree.

I am not disagreeing with you.

What I am saying is that my N devices connect at 144Mbps, G devices connect at 54Mbps.
On speedtest.net I get 50Mbps on N devices EVEN WITH g devices connected.

I am NOT saying that my N devices connect to the router at 50Mbps. They connect at 144Mbps even with g devices connected. The N devices get a speedtest at www.speedtest.net of around 50Mbps

Ie in the real world when downloading I see no difference.
Standard User rich_jtg
(regular) Tue 16-Sep-14 12:34:52
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Couldn't the OP just get a simultaneous Dual Band Router?

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Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Tue 16-Sep-14 13:35:07
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: rich_jtg] [link to this post]
 
This would work provided all of the N devices were 5Ghz, this is working along the assumption that g devices slowdown the N devices massively which I honestly do not see personally.

I think the issue is just the router they're using.
Standard User leej
(member) Wed 17-Sep-14 15:31:41
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
I deleted it because I didn't like my own tone when I re-read the post. I'm sorry.

I am absolutely seeing a real world difference when downloading once a G device is connected.

The N devices download from Steam at 70Mbps, but as soon as I connect a G device elsewhere, that download speed drops to around 50Mbps. That is significant when you're downloading a 20GB or 30GB game... which happens quite a lot here due to Steam's regular discounting.
Standard User leej
(member) Wed 17-Sep-14 15:34:29
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
I think the issue is just the router they're using.


Then I'm surprised because the Billion 7800n has an excellent reputation.
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Wed 17-Sep-14 15:35:21
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: leej] [link to this post]
 
That's fine!!

Oh I see. Wireless g will connect at 54Mbps but will max out at speeds around 25Mbps on a speedtest.

So your slowdown from 70 to 50 real world still means the N devices are getting far in excess of a g device BUT there's still a slowdown.

I have a lot of wifi interference so I only get 50Mbps on a speedtest even without a g device. Perhaps that's why I don't see a slow down as you mention with g devices you see 50Mbps. Perhaps I never get fast enough anyway to whitness that slowdown. If that makes sense!!
Standard User billford
(elder) Wed 17-Sep-14 16:05:49
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Re: Wifi G+N router in which G devices don't slow down N dev


[re: leej] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by leej:
Then I'm surprised because the Billion 7800n has an excellent reputation.
It also has a reputation for being a bit marginal on processor power at FTTC speeds, maybe it's just the extra work involved in handling two standards?

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

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Edited by billford (Wed 17-Sep-14 16:07:13)

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