Which Router?

Hope this is the correct forum.
I've just had fttc activated on my line. I now have a Openreach router attached to a D6200 modem/router for my connection but looking to replace the Openreach device with something a bit better if that's possible. I've also just bought a Billion BiPAC 8800AXL VDSL2(Fibre)/ADSL2+ Dual Band Wireless AC 1300 Modem Router. Could someone advise which would be the better modem/router to use, the Netgear or the Billion, and which would be the best router to buy to replace the Openreach one that would work with either the Netgear or the Billion.

TIA.

Caley

The Billion will work on it's own as a modem / router.

So I won't need to buy another router just use the Billion as both so I can do away with the Openreach device?
That sounds just the job if it works.

Caley.

In reply to a post by caley:

So I won't need to buy another router just use the Billion as both so I can do away with the Openreach device?
That sounds just the job if it works.

Caley.

Yes - It's classed as an All In One Device. I have a 8800NL and that does everything without the need for anything else as it will do PPPoA for ADSL and PPPoE for FTTC/VDSL

Will I be able to get stats from the Billion? I don't get any from my D6200, at least I haven't found any but I might not be looking in the right place.

Caley.

Yes

Thanks for that. Must get the Billion set up then. Let you know how it goes.

Caley.

Lacks of stats in the netgear is because the stats are swallowed by the openreach modem.

Also netgear does not have a built in vdsl modem like the billion

PPPoE as has been said, and PTM

Thanks Andrew. I wouldn't have bought the D6200 if I'd know that it wouldn't give me stats. I'm not very versed on modem/routers and their workings but I do like Netgear. However you recommended the Billion to me a while back but not managed to use it yet. At least it's got stats I'll be able to pour over.

Caley.

If the Openreach modem is an HG612 that is easily flashed with unlocked firmware giving full access to stats, via the Netgear:-

# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 13678 Kbps, Downstream rate = 56816 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 13958 Kbps, Downstream rate = 57970 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.1             6.0
Attn(dB):        19.8            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.5            7.4
                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              243             237
M:              1               1
T:              0               60
R:              10              16
S:              0.1340          0.5423
L:              15161           3747
D:              8               1
I:              254             127
N:              254             254
Q:              8               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                45              0
TxQueue:                15              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         15              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           122             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              8.0000          0.0000
L:              32              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0
                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               910667
OHFErr:         124             183
RS:             1188966592              447758
RSCorr:         1580447         2456
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            47462350                0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             379698303               0
RSCorr:         672             0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         229863563               0
rtx_c:          29296           0
rtx_uc:         2455            0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         487             0
minEFTR:        57965           0
errFreeBits:    673920290               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    3383727893              0
Data Cells:     116816990               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             35              65
SES:            0               0
UAS:            23              23
AS:             762382

                        Bearer 0
INP:            47.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            8.16
OR:             0.01            31.34
AgR:            58029.76        13989.22

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.00            0.00
INPRein:        2.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             63.75           0.01
AgR:            63.75   0.01

Bitswap:        482906/482906           8733/8760

#

I believe the ECI can also be unlocked these days but not sure how easily. I can find a link to where it's done if that is what you have.

RobertoS.

Had a look at the Openreach device and not sure which it is so I've put down here what I can make out on the bottom of it. See if it tells you anything.



NGA-ECI-CPE-MODEMS Type 1B

ECI MODEL B-FOCUS V2-2FUB/R

Says ECI .

And? Link to unlock please?

Caley.

I've not gone through it in detail, but it seems to be in this Community thread.

When I referred to it in an earlier thread here, later there was this response.

I'll leave you to sort it out, but it seems clear it's in there somewhere .

Let me know how you get on.

That does seem very complicated and techie. I'll let my partner have a go at that and let you know how it goes:[

Caley.

In reply to a post by caley:

That does seem very complicated and techie.

Yep !

Seeing as I don't need to know, having a couple of HG612s, I didn't feel like devoting the necessary mental energy. At 3024 years old that is a precious commodity.

(Once you find them, there are probably only 2-4 relevant posts).

Edit 2: A locked HG612 off eBay may be a lot easier. The necessary firmware is easily available and the unlocking with it simple.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 25-Aug-15 23:15:01)

I have the UART needed and a clothes peg to do the connection stuff but the guides when I last tried were not much help, so gave up after a bit of tinkering.

Yeah got the joy of ECI here

The solution in the thread purports to be soldering-free Andrew. Or at least that's how I understand what was said to me. Have I got it wrong?

I've looked at the links now and how does unlocking a PlusNet Sagemcom device help with unlocking an ECI VDSL2 modem from Openreach, or am I missing the critical post in a long rambling thread.

Yuk .

It appears to be a corrupt link in my old rambling brain.

Oh dear ! Sorry.

As MrSaffron has pointed out, the thread I linked to is nothing to do with the ECI modem unlocking, but to do with the latest Plusnet router.

Unlocking the ECI modem is a delicate soldering job, so as I suggested earlier, unlocking an HG612 would be the way to go if wanting to use the Netgear.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 26-Aug-15 13:53:27)

As Bob said its way too complicated to get the ECI modem unlocked. Anyway every FTTC cab i've seen in Culloden is Huawei, so you're better off getting a brand new Huawei HG612 modem on ebay, getting it unlocked with the latest B030SP08 firmware and bob's yer uncle.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BT-Openreach-Huawei-EchoLi...
http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/hg612unlock.htm
https://huaweihg612hacking.files.wordpress.com/2011/...

Out of curiosity are you still with Xilo/Uno?

I've already bought a Billion BiPAC 8800AXL VDSL2(Fibre)/ADSL2+ Dual Band Wireless AC 1300 Modem Routerwhich wasn't exactly cheap so I hope to use that and get the stats I require. Already been told by BatBoy that the required stats will be available from the Billion.
yes although I moved over to UNO on the 4th of August.

Caley.

We all make mistakes. I would like to use the Netgear also so this would seem to be the way to go.

Caley.

I have that router and get full stats including ability to login via Telnet to get the detailed info. The only thing I am not convinced about is it's handling of G.INP as I have had higher latency since switching to it - before hand I was happily on fastpath but my latency is about 8ms higher with the G.INP (oh, and speeds are no better either so G.INP hasn't improved anything).

You mean you use the Billion 88ooAXL? If so what is your latency using the Billion? I'm using the Netgear D6200 at the moment and my latency is 32ms, sometimes higher.

Caley.

In reply to a post by caley:

You mean you use the Billion 88ooAXL? If so what is your latency using the Billion? I'm using the Netgear D6200 at the moment and my latency is 32ms, sometimes higher.

Caley.

eek! I live around the corner from you (top of Tower Road) and on TalkTalk fibre my pings are ~22ms. Something is quite not right with your FTTC connection... I assume your pings are obtained by a wired connection? Can you connect the Billion router and post your stats from that incl ping times? But leave at least 30mins from the disconnecting the Netgear to hooking up the Billion router otherwise you may drive the DLM nuts...

Edited by deleted (Wed 26-Aug-15 16:55:28)

In reply to a post by baby_frogmella:

... But leave at least 30mins from the disconnecting the Netgear to hooking up the Billion router otherwise you may drive the DLM nuts...

All that should be needed is to power of the modem and wait a minute before connecting the line. The "dying gasp" message from modem/router tells the DSLAM that power has been lost rather than a line,connection, noise or SNR problem.

I'm glad someone else holds that view, got told off for suggesting the off/on standard software fix for issues the other day.

I know from experience - disconnecting, rebooting or, changing devices every few minutes for several hours when BT (several staff) and I where trring to diagnose a software issue.

It is also in the SIN

Yes, I live near Culloden Academy. You were kind enough to let me have use of your Draytek router last year.
I've been thinking that my latency was a bit high, I do use a wired connection. I won't be able to set up the Billion till my partner comes back from shifts working away , I'm not techie enough to set it up When it is set up I will post the stats here for you to view and maybe you could give me an idea of what or if anything is wrong and can be done.

Caley.

Could you go into a bit more detail with that please? Just in case I might have to the change modem/router from the Netgear to the Billion myself then I want to get it right so it would be very helpful for precise information.
Thanks.
Caley.

Give me an hour or so and I'll tell you how.

I'll look forward to that?

The router will have a power input, a line connection and several Ethernet ports.

When it is running and you want to change it out, the best way to do that is to either turn off the power supply at the mains or disconnect the power input. On loss of power, the modem sends a "dying gasp" message to the DSLAM indicating loss of power rather than a line disconnect. Wait around 30 second to 1 minute. and then disconnect the line. As you are changing it out also remove the Ethernet connections.

My preferred way of restarting/reconnecting is to power up the new router and give it two or three minutes to fully boot. When stable, then connect the line wait 30 seconds or so before connecting the Ethernet side.

Thanks for that. Hope to do the change by the weekend and I'll follow your instructions to the letter.

Caley.

Currently around 17ms on a 45Mb/s FTTC connection that has G.INP enabled at a fairly deep level. Before the G.INP went deep I was running at about 9ms.

These are latency's as shown by the SamKnows router to wherever that tests to. I haven't done any ping tests outside of that to see what it is like to other websites.

You're not too bad at 17 but I know my latency is a bit high at 32 and sometimes a bit more but not sure what's causing it or how to rectify it. That's why I'm hoping a change of modem/router will help reduce it if that's possible.

Caley.

Firstly I want to thank MHC for your help in spelling out how to change over the openreach device, worked a treat and there seemed no drop in rate, thank you. I would have posted back here earlier but my dog died at the weekend and that cut short what we were doing till Tuesday.
Where I'm at now is I had to stop using the Billion 8800 AXL as the speed dropped down to less than 5mbps download and a lot less upload so I had to change back to the Netgear D6200 where speeds went back to normal of around 37mbps download and 7.4mbps upload with a latency of 31 which I still think is high but when the latency does drop down the line goes erratic. I'm still using the Openreach device but am toying with the idea of buying an unlocked one. An opinion on that would be welcome. For the past few nights my speed have been erratic. Tonight has been a bit better but the needle goes up to around 37 mbps then down to below 10mbps then back up again, very up and down. My line drops now and again, after around 200hrs up, but dropped today after 27hrs and again I used MHCs instructions worked again perfectly. I've posted 2 readings at the links below. Opinions please. I've asked UNO for help and all they say is "Your router is not indicating line drops, it is indicating session drops and it cannot be proven if the session drops are due to a line issue or the router given the nature of the fault". In their defence they did offer to send a BT bod out at £200 but I've declined that for the moment.
So I've still not managed to access stats for my fibre connection.
Any help would be appreciated.

Caley.

http://www.petremembrance.co.uk/test.jpg
http://www.petremembrance.co.uk/test.png

Well well well. Here's me telling eveyone, family and friends and anyone who would listen, what friendly, knowledgeable and helpful people frequent these forums, seems I have to eat my words. I thought I'd at least have someone to respond to my call for help with my problem but no. Ah well seem I have to live and learn and get on with it myself.

So which modem are you using?

Based on the wobbly lines for the download in http://www.petremembrance.co.uk/test.png if that is with the openreach modem and netgear router and connected to the router over an Ethernet cable you might be looking at something that is nothing to do with the VDSL connection but just peak time congestion at the ISP.