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Standard User Skilty
(member) Thu 26-Nov-15 11:29:31
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New VDSL Modem and Router?


[link to this post]
 
So just moved to TalkTalk Business (via Pulse8), cab is a ECI 128 and I have the BT OR ECI modem going to an Asus RT-AC87U router.

Are there any better alternatives to the current modem? It would be great to see line stats and understand whether fastpath or things G.INP downstream are enabled. I have seen people mention the BT OR Huwaei modem, Billion 8800NL and Draytek 130 modems.

On the router front the AC87U is a great router, until you want to use QoS, URL filtering or disabling WiFi (kids are internet mad). QoS and filtering switch off hardware acceleration on the Asus and the WiFi disabling seems to be hit and miss.

Any suggestions?

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Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 26-Nov-15 13:20:43
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Re: New VDSL Modem and Router?


[re: Skilty] [link to this post]
 
Ask yourself: "Do I want separate modem and router, or do I want a combined hub?"

Both have their own advantages although I prefer to have separate devices so the modem can be close to the master socket and the router in a convenient location for wired and WiFi connectivity.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User tommy45
(knowledge is power) Thu 26-Nov-15 14:03:54
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Re: New VDSL Modem and Router?


[re: Skilty] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Skilty:
So just moved to TalkTalk Business (via Pulse8), cab is a ECI 128 and I have the BT OR ECI modem going to an Asus RT-AC87U router.

Are there any better alternatives to the current modem? It would be great to see line stats and understand whether fastpath or things G.INP downstream are enabled. I have seen people mention the BT OR Huwaei modem, Billion 8800NL and Draytek 130 modems.

On the router front the AC87U is a great router, until you want to use QoS, URL filtering or disabling WiFi (kids are internet mad). QoS and filtering switch off hardware acceleration on the Asus and the WiFi disabling seems to be hit and miss.

Any suggestions?


G.inp is not yet enabled on ECI cabs , the Huawei HG612 3B and the Billion 8800nl are broadcom based devices, and both will provide full stats( HG612 needs a firmware flash to unlock it and access line stats) not sure what chip set the draytek uses


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Standard User baby_frogmella
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 26-Nov-15 14:17:20
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Re: New VDSL Modem and Router?


[re: Skilty] [link to this post]
 
I used to have the AC87R (same as 'U' model), overall very good but 5ghz was temperamental...i believe this was due to the unstable Quantenna drivers. I replaced this with a Linksys EA8500 (also a 4x4 router) which is far far better & uses a single Qualcomm chipset). Whatever you do stick with a 4x4 Mu-MIMO router as they are best, even on legacy clients.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Linksys-Max-Stream-MU-MIMO-G...

If you want an Lantiq based VDSL2 modem which you can easily get line stats without having to faff around with unlocking software or using a soldering iron then go for the Draytek 130.
https://www.draytek.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view...

°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
TalkTalk Business Fibre 79999/20000 kbps
Powered by Linksys EA8500
°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°
Standard User Skilty
(member) Thu 26-Nov-15 14:35:35
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Re: New VDSL Modem and Router?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Definitely separates.

For modem is there any benefit of the Billion over a BT OR Huwaei modem.

For the router I was tempted to look at a small mini ITX running pfSense, but the AC87U is supposed to be a top of the line router.

The 5Ghz seems to suck somewhat and the acceleration switches off for certain features. With upwards of 30 clients connected to it I was wondering if it was all too much for it smile

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Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 26-Nov-15 15:03:15
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Re: New VDSL Modem and Router?


[re: Skilty] [link to this post]
 
If you want separate then the Billion will be a waste as it includes a router!

I use a HG612 and all is fine with it. 5 minutes to unlock it, connect the second LAN port to the 24 port switch and I can see everything I need - my router has just a single operational LAN connection to the switch plus one more that is available in my office if I need to connect direct.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User awontroba
(learned) Thu 26-Nov-15 16:35:57
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Re: New VDSL Modem and Router?


[re: Skilty] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Skilty:
For the router I was tempted to look at a small mini ITX running pfSense, but the AC87U is supposed to be a top of the line router.


I have a 4 GB 3 NIC mini ITX box running pfSense. Far more sophisticated than most routers. As of today one WAN interface does PPPoE through a flashed HG612, the other WAN interface is to my works ADSL router, with LAN2 on the HG612 and, when I get round to it, a Fon Simpl access point plugged in to it.

My network inside the firewall has a very private access point on it.

--
Adrian
Standard User Skilty
(member) Thu 26-Nov-15 16:46:04
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Re: New VDSL Modem and Router?


[re: awontroba] [link to this post]
 
Went for a HG612 on ebay for £27 earlier.

Any chance you could share your build components?

I was considering the components below simply because Baytrail boards seem to have PCIe x1 rather x4, which you need for a dual NIC Intel card.

MSI AM1I Socket AM1 MiniITX Motherboard
AMD Athlon 5350
1x 4GB DDR3
1x Dell Dual Port 1000 PT PCI-E Gigabit NIC

Plus a case to throw it in works out at around £130.

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Edited by Skilty (Thu 26-Nov-15 16:50:22)

Standard User awontroba
(learned) Thu 26-Nov-15 20:09:46
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Re: New VDSL Modem and Router?


[re: Skilty] [link to this post]
 
I went the easy way, and bought something similar to this:
http://linitx.com/product/linitx-apu-1d-4gb-3nicusbr...
APU 1D System Board, with 3 Gigabit NICs and 4GB RAM
ALIX/APU Aluminium enclosure - Black
30GB Kingston mSATA SSD with the full version of pfSense installed

They appear not to sell the the precise model I have, which was a bit more expensive at £237.44 including PSU and delivery, but plenty of oomph.

The only problems I am aware of are:

pfSense does not have the right drivers for the 3 LEDs on the front of the case. Not very significant, as I have the lights at the back and the ports at the front.

I have some trouble with getting failover between my FTTC modem and works ADSL router working properly.

--
Adrian
Standard User Skilty
(member) Mon 30-Nov-15 22:08:46
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Re: New VDSL Modem and Router?


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Thanks MHC, did the same and can now see line stats via web GUI which is all I need.

Job done! Will worry about the router side of things next year, the AC87U does the job without too many complaints I guess.

plusnet Fibre > Sky Fibre Pro > Pulse8 Fibre XL - 14ms Ping, Sync ~ 65.78/18.73Mbps - BQM
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 30-Nov-15 23:20:41
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Re: New VDSL Modem and Router?


[re: Skilty] [link to this post]
 
If you mean you are now using an unlocked HG612, then the GUI stats are not completely trustworthy.

The sync speeds are correct, but compare with the telnet ones:-

GUI
Attainable rate (kbit/s) 59808 16107
SNR margin (dB) 19.7 0
Line attenuation (dB) 13.6 7.4
Output power (dBmV) 13.6 7.4

Line rate (kbit/s) 59997 15142 0 0
CRC errors 254 127 18 0
FEC errors 0 0 0 0
HEC errors 122 4294967290 32 0


TelnetLogin:admin
Password:
ATP>sh

BusyBox v1.9.1 (2014-01-21 16:44:38 CST) built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 16062 Kbps, Downstream rate = 59812 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 15142 Kbps, Downstream rate = 59997 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 5.9 6.5
Attn(dB): 19.7 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.6 7.4
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 25
B: 243 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 64
R: 10 16
S: 0.1295 0.5000
L: 15691 4064
D: 8 1
I: 254 127
N: 254 254
Q: 8 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 48 0
TxQueue: 16 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 16 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 122 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 8.0000 0.0000
L: 32 0
D: 1 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 1978626
OHFErr: 13 400
RS: 3020515448 1004302
RSCorr: 6409885 4044
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 171234552 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 1369875922 0
RSCorr: 343 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 137193 0
rtx_c: 189529 0
rtx_uc: 98116 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 2465 0
minEFTR: 59993 0
errFreeBits: 3142817269 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 3808555439 0
Data Cells: 393989148 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 118 864
SES: 38 1
UAS: 333 311
AS: 2750516

Bearer 0
INP: 48.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 8.03
OR: 0.01 30.87
AgR: 60058.37 15172.73

Bearer 1
INP: 2.00 0.00
INPRein: 2.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 63.75 0.01
AgR: 63.75 0.01

Bitswap: 2110296/2110296 13425/13449


The GUI SNR contains the attenuation, the attenuation contains the power, and the power is correct.

IIRC there are odd things also going on with the error stats, but I haven't looked to compare in detail.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 30-Nov-15 23:22:03)

Standard User Skilty
(member) Mon 30-Nov-15 23:47:43
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Re: New VDSL Modem and Router?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
This is what I am getting, guessing I lost a little on the downstream when I swapped out the ECI as the max attainable according to BT OR engineer was 69Mbps:


Downstream Upstream
Attainable rate (kbit/s) 67892 27670
SNR margin (dB) 6.6 9.3
Line attenuation (dB) 15.1 0
Output power (dBmV) 12.7 4.3


# xdslcmd info --show
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 28496 Kbps, Downstream rate = 67660 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 67660 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.5 10.0
Attn(dB): 15.1 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.7 4.3
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 150
B: 239 236
M: 1 1
T: 21 5
R: 0 16
S: 0.1129 0.3771
L: 17008 5410
D: 1 1
I: 240 255
N: 240 255
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 3470719 1011102
OHFErr: 29 6
RS: 0 1264641
RSCorr: 0 67
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 42 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 805653551 0
Data Cells: 50278300 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 21 6
SES: 0 0
UAS: 104 104
AS: 6195

Bearer 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 1.78 6.15
OR: 107.56 202.87
AgR: 67767.28 20203.27

Bitswap: 3709/3709 29/30

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Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 30-Nov-15 23:54:57
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Re: New VDSL Modem and Router?


[re: Skilty] [link to this post]
 
That's interesting. I wonder if there's been an update that I haven't noticed, correcting the GUI. I shall look into that another day if I remember.

If you see the Bearer 1 stuff that I have then G.INP is active. I doubt if you will need it though.

The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59997/15142kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User Skilty
(member) Tue 01-Dec-15 00:04:19
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Re: New VDSL Modem and Router?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Our cab is an ECI so I won't hold my breath for G.INP to be switched on any time soon smile

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