Wireless Broadband advice Asus & Billion

I'd very much like some informed opinions on a couple of router choices.

I run a small business and sometimes work from home and have just ordered superfast broadband VDSL2 (FTTC), upgrading from ADSL2.

I'm looking to replace my Billion BiPac 7800N rather than connect ewan to a separate VDSL2 modem which I will have to buy (my ISP Plusnet now provides self-install only, ie no modem).

I've considered using the Plusnet Hub One supplied (a rebadged Home Hub5) as a modem only. Whilst it's technically possible, it's time I don't want to spend and by all accounts the modem could be better.

My primary router requirements are;
- a rock-solid vdsl2 connection, supporting G.INP, with good performance
- good wireless performance and range (I live in a stone built house with very thick walls
- good wireless ac (I have clients which are ac ready)
- good Ip6 implementation

It'd be useful to be able to get line stats as I've had a number of issues using voip on this line (which now seem to be solved thanks to data monitoring on my line from my voip provider). In summary the ping times were very variable anywhere between 30ms up to 400ms. Smokeping highlighted this and focus plusnet into delivering solution. I'm aware I still get ping times up at 400ms in the early hours of the morning for some reason but this isn't a problem for me. Download speeds are consistently in the region of 17mbps.

A router with a good user interface and setup would be handy, but not a prime consideration as I'm reasonably network savvy (at least for IPv4).

I'm considering the following;
Billion BiPAC 8900AX-1600 R2
ASUS dsl ac68U

The Billion 8900 hasn't been released in the Uk but is supposedly imminent. It's the successor to the BiPAC 8800AXL which has been discontinued. The 8900 supposedly addresses the poor wifi performance/range of the 8800 and I assume it will have the same broadcom vdsl2 chipset.

My broadband goes live on the 20th Jan so my router decision may be made for me by virtue of router availability!

Any advice appreciated.

Many thanks

A few points of information.

The Plusnet Hub One doesn't support G.INP anyway.

AIUI G.INP on ECI cabinets is only supported for downstream as opposed to both ways on Huawei. Do you know which you are on?

Good wireless in your building may be best achieved using one or more WAPS, possibly connected to the router by HomePlugs. Some HomePlugs also have built-in WAP.

Assuming you mean IPv6, Plusnet have a trial for that which is usually full. While I was on that trial there were also problems with some gateways not supporting it, and you could easily end up on one. I don't know if that has been fixed, but it was quite difficult to get back onto one that worked.

They are also starting to roll out a new network which is not IPv6 enabled, with no published plans or timescale.

If money is no object then go for the Netgear D7800, arguably the best all in one VDSL2 router out there currently:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/D7800-100UKS-Nighthawk-Wirel...

If you want something a bit cheaper then the TP Link VR900 is your best bet for £125
http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-Archer-VR900-Beamfor...

I have a similar setup to the one you are considering:

BT Infinity 2
Billion 8800NL
Asus RT-AC68U

I'm running Merlin Firmware on the Asus and the Billion in Modem mode.

I have rock solid VDSL connectivity with the Billion and the Asus is about as good as I could find for the Routing and WiFi performance. I particularly like the Asus adaptive QoS.

ISPReview just updated their recommendation for VDSL modem/routers if that is of any interest.
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2016/01/2016-up...

I have two Billion Bipac 8800 NLs. Used them both on ADSL lines and now one is on a VDSL line. They have worked great for me holding sync for months and seem to be fully supported by DSLStats. Their wifi isnt great but adequate but I use another wireless AP remote from the BT master socket to provide stronger/better wifi performance.

The Plusnet Hub One doesn't support G.INP anyway.

Reference please as I thought it supported G.INP at least on the downstream

There does seem to be some confusion, I agree. You may be right.

In reply to a post by Oldjim:

The Plusnet Hub One doesn't support G.INP anyway.

Reference please as I thought it supported G.INP at least on the downstream

What makes you think that?

Because the HH5 A supports it to a limited extent http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/11/uk-isp-...
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,16450.msg304...

In reply to a post by Oldjim:

Because the HH5 A supports it to a limited extent http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/11/uk-isp-...
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,16450.msg304...

There's no evidence there of G.INP support, only opinion. No facts.

That facts are that ECI cabinets don't offer G.INP and ECI modems don't support G.INP.

Edited by deleted (Mon 11-Jan-16 16:01:26)

What the devil have ECL Cabinerts or modems to do with HH5a supporting or not supporting G.INP
Note that the ECI Modems support it on downstream only http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/05/bt-open...
Perhaps if you produced a few facts yourself instead of just quibbling we may get a bit further

Sorry but that article absolutely does not say that ECI modems support G.INP.

which appeared to include some customers on Openreach�s own ECI modems (G.INP works on both upstream and downstream transmissions, but the ECI modem�s upstream doesn�t support it).

As soon as somebody devises a method of demonstrating G.INP support on a device that doesn't report it, such as the HH5 A or the ECI modem, I will happily demonstrate it myself as I have a number of modems including the Huawei HG612 v3B, the ECI Focus, the HH5A and the HH5B.

As far as I can tell at the moment, my HG612 and my HH5B both support G.INP but my ECI and my HH5A do not.

ECI Modems and Cabs, along with BT HH5A's and the Plusnet Hub One support G.INP on the Downstream but not the Upstream.

Lol

To demonstrate whether a device supports G.INP if it doesn't report it I'd have thought asking the ISP for a GEA test should confirm whether retransmission is for downstream, upstream or both, 'Retransmission' on a GEA test confirms active G.INP in the relevant direction.
I'd imagine a few users will, by now, have seen such test reports indicating retransmission active downstream with HH5A

In reply to a post by Al1264:

To demonstrate whether a device supports G.INP if it doesn't report it I'd have thought asking the ISP for a GEA test should confirm whether retransmission is for downstream, upstream or both, 'Retransmission' on a GEA test confirms active G.INP in the relevant direction.
I'd imagine a few users will, by now, have seen such test reports indicating retransmission active downstream with HH5A

Well that's a good idea but I wonder which ISP's can give out that information?

I haven't seen anyone posting a result for the HH5A or the ECI modem - ever.

Plusnet have been known to give users the result of one. In fact to Al1234.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/plusnet/t/4448847-r...

I think I've seen some in the Plusnet forums as well.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 12-Jan-16 11:42:41)

I see that says

Profile Name 0.128M-80M Downstream, Retransmission Low - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Retransmission Low

which appears to be a profile name, not an actual confirmation of G.INP being present.

I wonder what "Retransmission Low" actually means with regard to G.INP?

Aha! There's an article all about it here http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/ginp-retransmission.htm

and what does it say

As you note above, to comply with SIN 498, modems and routers must support retransmission in the downstream, but it is not a mandatory requirement in the upstream. Taking this into account and to maintain a high level of service, when we first rolled out retransmission to our Huawei estate we introduced interleaving on all lines where the modem/routers did not support retransmission in the upstream.

Are you seriously suggesting that the ECI modems and HH5A and Plusnet Hub One don't meet the requirements of SIN 498

In reply to a post by Oldjim:

Are you seriously suggesting that the ECI modems and HH5A and Plusnet Hub One don't meet the requirements of SIN 498

Yes. I haven't seen anywhere stating they do.

So BT provided a modem which doesn't meet their own standard and hence isn't an accepted device -

That appears to be the situation. Also Openreach appears to install modems that don't either.

I'm not sure. But I've just found one on the Plusnet forums that confirms they let customers see the GEA test results.

Later on the customer posts an image, but my machine has just started playing up so can't get the link.

Edit - no use re G.INP - it looks like an ADSL2+ circuit.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 12-Jan-16 14:20:42)

The particular image (this one I think) doesn't show retransmission (it's a non-G.INP line with interleaving on): http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php?action=dla...

The GEA test will show interleaving, retransmission or error correction off for each of the upstream and downstream on the profile name, it can only show retransmission if the device supports G.INP. Interleaving and retransmission can show (AFAIK) low or high

Edited by deleted (Tue 12-Jan-16 15:04:01)

In reply to a post by Al1264:

To demonstrate whether a device supports G.INP if it doesn't report it I'd have thought asking the ISP for a GEA test should confirm whether retransmission is for downstream, upstream or both, 'Retransmission' on a GEA test confirms active G.INP in the relevant direction.
I'd imagine a few users will, by now, have seen such test reports indicating retransmission active downstream with HH5A

I see no-one has posted the results of a GEA test showing the Homehub5A or Hub1 running with G.INP. My feeling is that this device doesn't work with G.INP enabled.

G.INP wasn't part of the SIN478 when FTTC was first rolled out so the modems weren't required to support it back then.

However SIN 498 required it on downstream from at least Sept 2014 (v6) (I haven't found an earlier one) but other references indicate that it was introduced as early as August 2013 from http://www.niccstandards.org.uk/files/current/ND1436... and since BT were still providing the ECI modems after that time surely they should have supported downstream retransmission

Edited by deleted (Tue 26-Jan-16 19:14:00)