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Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 08-Jul-16 19:17:06
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Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[link to this post]
 
Anyone advise? Do they fit a new master faceplate and has it got extensions on it.

TIA

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 08-Jul-16 19:46:04
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Self-install means you just plug the router in yourself. Openreach activate your line at the cabinet.

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 08-Jul-16 20:03:32
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
So do I need to get a new faceplate?

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...


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Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 08-Jul-16 20:16:12
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
No you just use the micro-filter provided

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 08-Jul-16 21:22:53
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Provided by whom?

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 08-Jul-16 21:43:47
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Good question. They should come with the modem/router.

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 08-Jul-16 21:48:18
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
On a self install? Getting back to my original question, do I need to replace my current ADSLNation ADSL faceplate with a VDSL faceplate?

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 08-Jul-16 21:49:56
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Ah. No, just plug the VDSL modem in instead of the ADSL modem.

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 08-Jul-16 21:51:53
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Simples, thanks.

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 08-Jul-16 21:53:00
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Banger:
Getting back to my original question, do I need to replace my current ADSLNation ADSL faceplate with a VDSL faceplate?
That wasn't your original question wink. You never mentioned you had an ADSLNation ADSL faceplate!

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 08-Jul-16 21:57:02
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Please re-read the OP. I was trying to ascertain whats involved in a self install and do they replace the master faceplate. ADSLNation is neither here no there.

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 08-Jul-16 22:14:08
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
In your OP you said "they". For self-install there is no "they", only you.

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 08-Jul-16 22:18:00
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Banger:
Getting back to my original question, do I need to replace my current ADSLNation ADSL faceplate with a VDSL faceplate?
[cough]
That was not your original question. This was:- "Do they fit a new master faceplate and has it got extensions on it?"

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 08-Jul-16 22:19:30)

Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 08-Jul-16 22:27:11
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Except they are in the cabinet. tongue

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 08-Jul-16 22:28:26
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
I dont see your point other than the make of faceplate.

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Fri 08-Jul-16 22:37:04
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
That's right as I said. But they don't come to your house.

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Fri 08-Jul-16 23:15:38
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
BatBoy replied with two things. Nobody comes to the house, and you just use a dangly filter.

You then queried the dangly filter, asking "On a self install?" as you have an ADSL Nation one. He answered no, just carry on using the ADSL Nation one.

If you had stated originally that you had an ADSL Nation faceplate then he would have given that answer, instead of that you should use a dangly filter.

I hope that settles the confusion, but would add that if and when FTTC does arrive at your house then although your ADSL Nation faceplate will work it would be optimal to replace it with an Openreach VDSL2 Mk3 interstitial filter plate and refit your original NTE5A to the front of that, if you still have it.

The reason being that the newer VDSL2 filter plate is to a higher spec and removes a wider range of noise spectrum from the phone wiring side being fed back onto the line.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 08-Jul-16 23:16:57)

Standard User broadband66
(fountain of knowledge) Sat 09-Jul-16 17:13:53
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Self install - it's in the name.

Was Eclipse Home Option 1, VM 2Mb & O2 Standard
Now Utility Warehouse (up to 16mbps) via Talk Talk
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Jul-16 14:37:50
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Got the HG612 but cant get router to connect over ADSL. Simply plugged DSL into dsl socket and lan into lan1 replacing the billion but nothing. DSL light is on and lan light is on any ideas?

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User ukhardy07
(knowledge is power) Mon 11-Jul-16 15:01:35
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
ADSL or fibre? Fibre is not ADSL?
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Jul-16 15:12:00
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: ukhardy07] [link to this post]
 
Adsl , someone said the modem would drop back to adsl.

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 11-Jul-16 15:35:13
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Lan 1 of the HG612 goes to the WAN port of the router.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 11-Jul-16 15:35:55
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Is it showing a DSL sync?

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Jul-16 15:50:52
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Dsl light is steady but router just says disconnected, put the billion back in and its fine.

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Jul-16 15:52:45
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yes lan2 has a cover on it

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User billford
(elder) Mon 11-Jul-16 16:46:40
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Reading this thread, it's not clear to me what the other end of the cable (in the HG612's LAN1 port) is connected to- you just say to the LAN.

It needs to be connected to something (router, PC...) that is correctly set up to log in to your ISP, just as the Billion is.

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 11-Jul-16 17:32:09
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
DSL light steady (if Green!!) means it has sync.

You are just connecting it wrongly to the Billion ASUS. As I said earlier, it connects to the WAN port on the Billion ASUS, not to a LAN port. That's assuming it has a WAN port - I am not familiar with it.

Then your login details go into the Billion.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 11-Jul-16 17:45:19)

Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Jul-16 17:33:34
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: billford] [link to this post]
 
The billion is in pure bridge mode, so effectively a modem, I just replace the billion with the HG612 to LAN4 which is the wan port it is set for PPPoE and works with billion.

I think the question is will a locked HG612 work in ADSL mode it seems to sync or does it have to be unlocked first as someone else in this thread suggested or do I need to look at my router connection settings?

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Jul-16 17:35:30
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Im connecting to the Asus DSL-N55U wan port.

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 11-Jul-16 17:40:19
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Sorry yes, I was saying Billion where I should have been saying ASUS.

If the DSL light on the HG612 is solid green you have sync, so somehow we need to work out what is different. If it is some other colour then it doesn't have sync.

I wouldn't have thought you need to alter your settings on the ASUS, but maybe a reboot?

Are you sure the HG612 isn't already unlocked?

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 11-Jul-16 17:41:51)

Standard User billford
(elder) Mon 11-Jul-16 17:48:30
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Banger:
The billion is in pure bridge mode, so effectively a modem, I just replace the billion with the HG612 to LAN4 which is the wan port it is set for PPPoE and works with billion.
That all sounds OK.
I think the question is will a locked HG612 work in ADSL mode it seems to sync or does it have to be unlocked first as someone else in this thread suggested or do I need to look at my router connection settings?
I'm afraid I can't help you there Tim- I've never tried to connect any sort of HG612 to any sort of ADSL line. Sorry frown

Bill
A level playing field is level in both directions.

_______________________________________Planes and Boats and ... ______________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Jul-16 17:51:04
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yes solid green but the Asus says disconnected.

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 11-Jul-16 17:58:29
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
What is the 192.168.xxx.xxx address of the ASUS? It shouldn't matter, but worth thinking about.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Jul-16 18:16:19
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
It is 192.168.1.1, tried changing to 192.168.3.1 but no go.

Found https://forum.zen.co.uk/forums/thread/44338.aspx doesn't look if its possible.

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 11-Jul-16 18:28:59
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
You'll have to unlock it to modify the settings to make it work, as I said before.

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User Realalemadrid
(learned) Mon 11-Jul-16 18:39:13
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
As Batboy says you need an unlocked HG612 to allow you to change the settings for an ADSL connection. I have done it for my ADSL Max line. The main thing is the default config for VDSL uses PTM whereas ADSL is ATM. This link is a long and confusing thread that has the info but needs careful reading to find the correct config data. HG612 ADSL bridge
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Jul-16 18:47:46
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Realalemadrid] [link to this post]
 
As the modem doesnt support bridged adsl just vdsl and looking at the Zen link they couldnt get it to work with Zen I might just wait 5 months or so for vdsl, plus I dont think the SNR is tweakable like the billion.

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 11-Jul-16 18:52:44
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
The modem does support bridged ADSL as that link shows and the SNR is tweakable. BUT you have to unlock it first.

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User Realalemadrid
(learned) Mon 11-Jul-16 19:03:25
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Well my HG612 has been operating in bridge mode with a separate router handling the pppoe authentication perfectly well for a couple of years, running at full 8128Mbps sync. So it certainly can support a bridged ADSL connection, but it does need setting up correctly. As for SNR tweaking I can't comment as my line doesn't need it.
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Jul-16 19:09:06
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
I haven't got time to unlock it, will just wait for vdsl.

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 11-Jul-16 19:21:04
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Good plan. It will just work with vdsl.

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)

Edited by BatBoy (Mon 11-Jul-16 19:22:05)

Standard User Arksun76
(newbie) Mon 11-Jul-16 20:00:39
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Self Install means no engineer enters your premises, its all done externally.

For fibre its highly recommended you connect the modem directly to your master socket.

If your BT Master box already has an RJ11/45 socket built into it you're pretty much good to go.

If however its your typical NTE5 master with just a standard telephone socket, whilst you could just use the modem supplied dsl/phone splitter accessory that plugs into that phone socket, you are far better off buying an Openreach MK3 faceplate to attach to your master socket, as this will give far better results.

I noticed prior to using a MK3 faceplate I was getting around 50-250 packet errors a day, which actually isn't bad, but once I installed the faceplate and connected directly to its RJ11/45 port, my errors went down to 0, and are still at 0 after 10 days and counting.

Your download speed will mostly likely improve as well. You can order the Openreach MK3 faceplate off Amazon. It's dead simple to install, no need to mess with any wiring you just unscrew the existing faceplate part of the NTE5 box off, slot the MK3 faceplate in between and screw back in over the top smile
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 11-Jul-16 20:11:08
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Banger:
I haven't got time to unlock it, will just wait for vdsl.
Ah dammit!

Sorry again. As Realalemadrid has pointed out, and I now remember BatBoy queried me about a couple of days ago but I forgot, you do need to unlock the HG612. Not because it doesn't train down - it does as you can see from the solid green light - but because the default setting is to PTM not ATM.

So it is sync'ing on ADSLx but the protocol from the ISP is ATM and isn't getting through the PTM setting to your ATM-requiring router.

As in I can listen to a Chinese man talking Chinese, but I have no idea what he is saying. The ISP and HG612 can hear each other but not understand each other.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Jul-16 20:56:01
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Arksun76] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Arksun76:
Self Install means no engineer enters your premises, its all done externally.

For fibre its highly recommended you connect the modem directly to your master socket.

If your BT Master box already has an RJ11/45 socket built into it you're pretty much good to go.

If however its your typical NTE5 master with just a standard telephone socket, whilst you could just use the modem supplied dsl/phone splitter accessory that plugs into that phone socket, you are far better off buying an Openreach MK3 faceplate to attach to your master socket, as this will give far better results.

I noticed prior to using a MK3 faceplate I was getting around 50-250 packet errors a day, which actually isn't bad, but once I installed the faceplate and connected directly to its RJ11/45 port, my errors went down to 0, and are still at 0 after 10 days and counting.

Your download speed will mostly likely improve as well. You can order the Openreach MK3 faceplate off Amazon. It's dead simple to install, no need to mess with any wiring you just unscrew the existing faceplate part of the NTE5 box off, slot the MK3 faceplate in between and screw back in over the top smile


What if I have an ADSLNation ADSL faceplate fitted already with rj11 and rj45 sockets?

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 11-Jul-16 20:58:10
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Then just plug and play

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Jul-16 20:59:55
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Will a Mk3 plate be better?

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Mon 11-Jul-16 21:07:52
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Possibly, it has more filters and it's meant for VDSL.

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Mon 11-Jul-16 21:37:15
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Methinks you stopped reading an earlier post of mine wink:-
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
... but would add that if and when FTTC does arrive at your house then although your ADSL Nation faceplate will work it would be optimal to replace it with an Openreach VDSL2 Mk3 interstitial filter plate and refit your original NTE5A to the front of that, if you still have it.

The reason being that the newer VDSL2 filter plate is to a higher spec and removes a wider range of noise spectrum from the phone wiring side being fed back onto the line.


Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 11-Jul-16 21:55:39
Print Post

Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Suck it and see in 5 months, plates are relatively easy to come by.

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Tue 12-Jul-16 08:49:21
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Yep.

Kindness isn't going to cure the world of all its awfulness but it's a good place to begin. Daisy Ridley.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59500/14989kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 12-Jul-16 13:49:15
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Roberto,

Your statement The reason being that the newer VDSL2 filter plate is to a higher spec and removes a wider range of noise spectrum from the phone wiring side being fed back onto the line could be misconstrued by some readers of this topic. I certainly was, at first reading. This is because it depends on precisely what you mean in that statement by "the line".

You see, out of curiosity I recently took apart a new Mk3 Openreach intermediate plate and, inspecting it very carefully, was surprised by one particular feature of the filtering. What I found was that the prior unfiltered connections going to both the user-usable AB IDC connection on this plate and the two centre pin connections of the shuttered RJ45/RJ11 outlet on the top face of the plate, ie. the connections to the modem, now go instead via a small choke (inductor).

The choke is effectively in series with the modem connection; it's made from extremely fine wire. It's in fact a double-choke, one bit for the A side, the other bit for the B (to keep the arrangement balanced). So, with this Mk3 plate, the xDSL modem no longer connects directly to "the line", ie. to the AB drop-line coming into the premises. Instead, the modem connection is filtered.

Perhaps I'm just stating what most contributors here already know, but for me this is a new departure as regards the overall filtering, and it's presumably designed to reduce any very high-frequency noise that gets picked up on the AB drop-line connection on the back of the NTE5 from getting through to the modem. Clearly, the value of that inductance has had to be assessed very carefully so as not to unduly affect the HF performance of the xDSL going to the modem. This new bit of filtering would also curb any HF noise coming back through and on to the AB line from the phone's ring-wire connection (which may or may not already be filtered, depending on which issue of NTE5 lower-half you happen to have, ie. whether or not the lower plug-in half of the NTE5 incorporates a series choke on the pin3 connection).

Essentially, this means that if you choose to use a Mk3 intermediate plate, then beside it incorporating sophisticated filtering for the connection of one or more phones, the connection to the modem (whether via the RJ11 port or the user-accessible IDC connection) now also has a modicum of filtering applied to it.

On the matter of the separate filtering for the pin3 ring connection, I fail to understand why Openreach don't declare it as redundant. What with the huge takeup of mobile phones in the last decade and decreasing numbers of landline-phone users being around (I'm one), and in any event most landline phones these days incorporating self-generation of the ring tone and therefore not needing the pin3 ring connection, one would have thought that Openreach would have by now eliminated completely this outdated ring connection. By doing so, they'd not only solve the "ring noise" issue at a stroke but would also save a bit on the cost of producing the NTE5 lower-half. This would seem especially so, given that they've even realised that the NTE5's surge arrestor (over-voltage proector) has limited usefulness and that, on newer NTE5s, is now being omitted.

Even if the phone itself doesn't carry through the pin3 connection and make use of it, the ring-wire connection between the NTE5 and the phone - regardless of whether that includes a choke - will still act as a considerable aerial for the picking up of EMI and coupling it into the AB dropline termination. This, after all, is what we've all appreciated for a considerable time. The more practical of us might be inclined to take apart the NTE5's lower half and actually cut the printed circuit where it meets the pin3. This would then absolutely ensure that the NTE5-to-phone pin3 connection couldn't have any detrimental effect. Although this would be disapproved of, I suppose it'd be okay if one were to keep a spare, undoctored NTE5 lower-half to hand, so that the situation could be restored if, say, one moved house.

Incidentally, I took photos of the front and rear of the MK3's intermediate plate's circuitboard, so that I could put the plate back together again and could then study the images at leisure. (I recall seeing similar pictures posted elsewhere in a different topic in these forums, but annoyingly have not been able to find that topic again). Initially, I was astonished to find that the modem's AB connection was now filtered. Hitherto, it'd always been considered sacrilege to do so.

I guess you already know all of this, though. After all, you're a seasoned and well-informed contributor to these forums. But I thought I'd just mention in a bit of detail what I'd discovered, so that others can perhaps appreciate how the NTE5 and its add-ons are continuing to evolve as regards filtering.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 12-Jul-16 13:54:16
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
Is that the REIN filter? I believe the lightning surge gap has been removed also.

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 12-Jul-16 14:20:02
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
Just to make it clear: the filtering of the modem connection to which I've referred is done inside the Mk3 intermediate plate; it's done on the plate's internal circuitboard. Any filtering of the ring connection to the phone, if present, is done inside the plug-in lower-half of the NTE5. The main body of the NTE5 has the standard 470K-ohm resistor and the 1.8uF capacitor and normally has a surge arrestor too (going effectively between the dropline A and B wires), but recent NTE5s tend now to omit the surge arrestor. Indeed, I took apart a spare NTE5 that I decided to buy recently and found it had no surge arrestor (traditionally, this has sometimes been referred to as the 'spark-gap component', but I think that's a rather outdated term now). Others in these various forums have found similar.

Addendum: if you feel a bit unsure about using a Mk3 plate because of this, there's always the option of using a Clarity plug-in faceplate or an ADSL Nation faceplate instead. The Clarity one is less easy to get hold of now. I've tried both the Clarity device and the ADSL Nation one in the past and found the Clarity one the better and more electrically robust of the two (although employing extensive filtering for the attachment of phones, the Clarity and the ADSL Nation work in slightly different ways). For the past several years I've had the Clarity one in use. At present I've no idea whether either apply any filtering to the modem connection, though. Considering their design ages, I'd think not.

Edited by meditator (Tue 12-Jul-16 14:33:58)

Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 12-Jul-16 16:18:01
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
On VDSL?

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 12-Jul-16 16:45:08
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
What question are you asking? If it's something along the lines of 'Does all of this apply to VDSL as well as ADSL?' the answer is firmly Yes. The extra filtering is obviously designed to benefit both, but particularly VDSL.

Although the Clarity and ADSL Nation faceplates were first designed and made available in pre-VDSL days, they can still be used successfully for VDSL, and contributors like Roberto have already alluded to that. The difference in resultant DSL performance between either of the aforementioned faceplates and a Mk3 intermediate plate is going to be marginal, in my view. 'Ya pays ya money and ya takes ya choice'. The recent additional filtering provided by the Mk3 plate will, I believe, benefit only those copper lines (ADSL and VDSL) that happen to be affected by spurious HF noise. It'll also assist in reducing/further reducing any unwanted ring-wire HF noise that gets coupled on to the AB line inside the NTE5 via the 1.8uF capacitor.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 12-Jul-16 17:05:37
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
Are you using these filters with ADSL or VDSL?

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User Arksun76
(newbie) Tue 12-Jul-16 17:56:23
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
The Openreach MK3 faceplate works well with both ADSL and VDSL. I installed mine whilst I still had ADSL (limited to 8down 0.4 up) and it was rock solid.

Recently made the switch to VDSL and my current connection stats via the MK3 plate are:

Upstream Downstream
Current Rate(kbps) 19999 79987
Max Rate(kbps) 36029 126406
SNR Margin(dB) 23.3 19.4
Line Attenuation(dB) 0 10.4

Speedtest.net gives result of 74.89 Mbps down, 18.89 Mbps up, Ping 16

Have tested the connection speed through the day and it's very consistent, probably helped by using an Independent ISP as well as the FTTC cabinets being very recently installed into the village. I doubt many people have subscribed to the service yet.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 12-Jul-16 17:58:42
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: BatBoy] [link to this post]
 
As explained a few sentences back, I'm using a Clarity faceplate at present - but on ADSL, as it happens; at the moment it's not worth me upgrading my DSL service to VDSL. I bought a Mk3 intermediate plate recently (and at the same time a complete spare NTE5) to have to hand in case I move house this year, in which case I'd opt for VDSL at the new address. The two spare devices have given me an opportunity to take them apart and explore the filtering.

I've not come across any scathing reviews of the Openreach Mk3 plate. I gather that it works very well, on both ADSL and VDSL services. But given that the NTE5 main body is a permanent and BT-owned component that stays in place, it's a fairly easy exercise to switch between using a Clarity plate, an OR Mk3 plate + lower half, and an ADSL Nation faceplate, if you wish to experiment.
Standard User BatBoy
(sensei) Tue 12-Jul-16 18:17:03
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
I didn't think you are on VDSL. This thread is about VDSL.

Use the Ginp Formula to determine if your vdsl2 connection is with or without G.INP.
Divide your IP Profile by your Sync Speed and the answer is 0.9669 (with) or 0.9679 (without)
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 12-Jul-16 21:28:03
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
Very interesting report on the MK.3 thanks for that.

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 13-Jul-16 15:56:50
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Yes, I hope the info I've provided is useful.

Looking again at the photos I took, I began to wonder whether the double-choke I mentioned was in shunt (across) with the AB terminals, rather than spurring off as series chokes. A shunt arrangement would mean that it'd be a transformer of a kind. But after then re-checking my Mk3 faceplate with an ohmmeter I was able to confirm that it's definitely not a shunt inclusion. Indeed, if it were, the choke(s) would rapidly burn out as soon as the 45 - 50v DC appears on the dropline AB terminals for the phone (the chokes are made from very fine-gauge wire).

Here's another practical issue to consider. For anyone thinking of acquiring a Mk3 plate to use and who might already be using an earlier issue NTE5 with brass threaded fixings (I mean the outer pair of holes, not the inner pair) do take care to obtain the correct machine screws. Suppliers of the plate often provide a set of screws - some self-tappers, others threaded - but invariably supply the wrong size, for the threaded ones. What you'll need instead are a pair of M3 x 35mm long machine screws, either countersunk head or cheesehead. The 35mm includes the head of the screw. These can be bought quite cheaply from various suppliers on Amazon, if necessary. If you don't have the correct length of machine screws you won't be able to hold all three faceplate components together. The NTE5 main body of course is normally fixed to the surface-mount or flush backbox with a short pair of M3.5s (not M3s), using the inner pair of holes. If you don't happen to have threaded inserts as the outer fixdowns of the NTE5 ensemble, really your only option is to use the self-tappers but, if you do that, in time the fixdown may well loosen and then fail to keep all three sections together. And if you're especially unlucky you might even crack the surrounding plastic. If you force the self-tappers into the threaded inserts, the fixdown is kinda ruined for good. So I'd advise that you avoid all of that; if you've threaded inserts get the correct screws. I've always felt it was a bad move when Openreach stopped using the brass threaded inserts, and in fact in other respects the general quality of all these components has, in my view, dropped quite noticeably in recent years. The same sort of care re screws would need to be taken if instead you choose to use a Clarity or an ADSL Nation faceplate. Clarity seems to have stopped trading but they used to make a specific point of supplying correct screws for their faceplate. The Clarity faceplate is, I believe, still available from Solwise.
Standard User Arksun76
(newbie) Wed 13-Jul-16 16:44:11
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
I didn't know about the length of them, though I had heard some people say when they bought the MK3, that the supplied screws weren't the correct thread type for their particular NTE5.

However the one that I bought off Amazon came with 2 sets of screws so that wasn't an issue. I guess some people are selling them with just 1 set and others with 2 sets of screws.
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 13-Jul-16 19:47:18
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
Yes very useful indeed.

The ADSLNation plate I currently have came with machine screws so that was extremely handy. Can't remember what I did with the original fittings.

Tim
www.xilo.net & freenetname
Billion 7800 on 24 Meg LLU
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html...
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 14-Jul-16 10:31:31
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
Getting back to the extra little filter that's now incorporated into the Mk3 faceplate - the filter that now operates on the A and B lines going to the modem - I think I've now fathomed its nature. It is a 'double-choke' of a kind but more accurately is a pair of toroidal windings. One winding comes from the A side of the incoming dropline, the other winding comes from the B side. The output sides of these windings then go to the two innermost pins on the RJ45/RJ11 jack-socket on the front top of the faceplate, as well as to the user-usable IDC. That central pair is then the pair that go to the modem. The two windings are put on to the toroidal core in opposite directions. This is what electrical engineers regard as a passive 'common-mode rejection device'. The idea is that any sporadic noise impulses picked up on either the A or B side of the Openreach dropline will get induced into the other side, but because the windings are wound in anti-phase, the impulses will then largely cancel each other out.

This little toroidal filter will have been designed to curb only the upper parts of the ADSL/VDSL spectrum, I feel sure, and my guess is that it was added by Openreach to assist lines that are plagued with transient noise picked up on the A or B line at or in the vicinity of the user's premises. For already noise-free lines, I don't see that inclusion of this tiny bit of filtering would cause an increase in speed performance, as I believe some people elsewhere on the Web have claimed. After all, it amounts to a series inductance on each side. In my view, it'd either leave the speed unaffected or would cause a small decrease in speed. However, for those lines where there's a lot of sporadic noise around (and the modem as a result disconnecting regularly), it could well clean up the AB pair sufficiently to recover a bit of increased speed.

Actually, while looking at the bits of tracking on the Mk3's circuitboard associated with this toroidal filter, I noticed that the pin connections on the RJ45/RJ11 are different to what they are in the Clarity faceplate. That's to say, on the Mk3, the A side connects via its winding to contact 4 on the RJ45 (looking into the RJ45/RJ11 jack-socket), whereas on the Clarity the A side connects to contact 5. Now, it's many, many years since I last considered the TIA pinouts on RJ45 connectors but I do recall that at one stage it was said that some modems were sensitive to input polarity. However, I can only conclude from what I've now found that contacts 4 and 5 are interchangeable nowadays, as far as modems are concerned. In other words, the modem connection must surely be a completely balanced arrangement and is not polarised in any way. The fact that some modem manufacturers appear to supply RJ11 modem leads with straight-through connections end-to-end but others supply a lead with the connections in them crossed over would seem to support the idea that these days it doesn't matter about polarity. If anyone here has superior knowledge on this, do please comment.

Edited by meditator (Thu 14-Jul-16 10:39:48)

Standard User richi
(regular) Fri 15-Jul-16 10:27:27
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Re: Whats involved with a fibre self install?


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the info, meditator. I've just gone and bought one for £9.50 from an Amazon Marketplace seller, Plutodirect. Worth a try to fix my occasional SHINE issues.

3 km line on THTG: 14500/1020 Mb/s with Pulse8
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