Modem for better sync

I�m on BT FTTC and I�m on bt infinity 1 (up to 55Mbps). My HH5A says my max rate is actually 55 and that�s what I sync at.

I have just switched to plusnet for price reasons. It�s up to 80Mbps and I�m not entirely sure wether I can squeeze much more speed from the line, last thing to try is the equipment.

(It�s in the master socket and all wiring has been updated).

I�m on an ECI cab.

HH5A I�m sure is a good match for the ECI cab afaik.

Today I purchased a TP-Link TD-W9970 - Broadcom chipset.

It seemed to get good sync speeds from the reviews I�ve read, although it doesn�t use the best Broadcom chip like the billion 8800NL and the zxyel I hear mentioned. As I don�t need advanced features, just a modem, I wondered if anyone had a comment on what I�ve ordered regarding expected sync speeds vs HH5 / plusnet one ... and if I should consider testing anything else - to see if I can make use of the extra speed headroom I�ll get when switching to plusnet.

Thanks

On Huawei cab my W9970 increased the speeds once the DLM relented, i.e. was more stable and error free than providers kit. I have the modem in loft office then Ethernet running to Ethernet WAN port on ISP router on ground floor, which means better WiFi coverage and no internal phone wiring.

On an ECI hard to say, and if you were very error free before might be little or nothing to be clawed back.

Will say while its not the most exciting device, I actually don't remember when I last had to reboot it it is at least several months.

Does your TP-Link TD-W9970 not show a max (attainable) downstream rate which could be more than the 55Mbps?

5. DSL uptime: 5 days, 08:51:03
6. Data rate: 9995 / 54994
7. Maximum data rate: 15152 / 54946
8. Noise margin: 9.3 / 6.0
9. Line attenuation: 27.3 / 19.7
10. Signal attenuation: 27.1 / 19.2

I�m not sure how to monitor errors on the HH5A

But I didn wonder if the max data rate was capped at 55 due to being on bt infinity 1 which is 55 too. But I think it�s just a coincidence

All I will say is the HH5A has a habit of rebooting itself every 5-10 days. But everything in between is rock solid. It�s been up 5 days and it�s the evening and the SNR is solid at 6 still, and it never fluctuates.

So like you said, I�m doubtful if the new tp-link router will gain me anything

Ps I haven�t received it yet so I can�t see it�s max data rate

Also I went for Broadcom even on the ECI cab, as I read it seems to be very stable and even has higher sync for ECI connected lines. Plus my HH5A and the plusnet one router (which hasn�t turned up yet) are both ECI chip routers. So it will be a good test against the TP-Link

Edited by oldskool (Tue 08-Jan-19 19:31:32)

I have a Zyxel VMG8924-B10A connectetd to a Vodafone 38Mbps (40/10) service.
The router statistics show:

Line Rate: 7.506 Mbps 39.999 Mbps
Actual Net Data Rate: 7.481 Mbps 40.000 Mbps
Attainable Net Data Rate: 7.481 Mbps 48.270 Mbps

which makes me think that I would get a faster spped if I transferred to BT.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

which makes me think that I would get a faster speed if I transferred to BT.

Not much!

In my experience, about half the difference between the two.

Just to report back - the new modem/router the TP-Link W9970 turned up.

I gained 1.5Mbps in sync. This is a 8:40pm sync so definitely not ideal. BT HH5A was reporting 54950 to 55050 before i disconnected and resynced as below.

Upstream Downstream
Current Rate (Kbps) 9995 54998
Max Rate (Kbps) 15321 56475
SNR Margin (dB) 9.4 6.5
Line Attenuation (dB) 29.8 13.3

Current Rate capped at 55Mbps due to being on infinity 1.

So not sure if i'll gain any more even if i resync at 11am.

I guess i've learn't that a Broadcom chipset can outperform (at first glance) an ECI HH5A with ECI cabinet equipment.

I guess i'll keep it for when Plusnet arrives and by the sounds of it, it's very stable.

P.S. for £30 odd, its certainly a very good value modem. Even if it doesn't have the very best broadcom chipset your find in the older Billion 8800NL

Edited by oldskool (Wed 09-Jan-19 20:57:40)

Any tips on how to turn this TP-Link into modem mode with an Apple airport extreme?

The apple AE is currently in bridge mode (so TP-Link is doing DHCP etc) - so on the Apple, the internet is via DHCP


I can switch the Apple to DHCP and NAT, but on the internet settings i have static and PPPOE.

I assume i choose static, and just put the IP of the modem in (once i've switched it into modem mode?)... but its asking for IPV4 Address AND Router Address. So i'm not entirely sure this is the correct option.

I ruled out DHCP as the modem doesn't do DHCP anymore and PPPOE is if you connect directly to the phone line i assume.

Thanks

Put the TP Link into 'bridge' mode (ie modem only mode) and choose PPPoE on the Apple router with DHCP enabled. Enter your PPPoE credentials on the Apple router and Bobs yer uncle

I'm not aware that ECI made any version of the home hub.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

I'm not aware that ECI made any version of the home hub.

The HH5A has an ECI chipset and the HH5B has a Broadcom chipset.

It doesn't have an ECI chipset.
ECI don't make chipsets.

It has a Lantiq chipset, which is the same Vendor of chipset as the ECI DSLAMs.

I too thought the ECI modem had Lantiq, but was uncertain enough not to respond myself .

Billion 8800NL are best for VDSL as a modem only. It's support G.INP, Vector, VDSL2. Mine was current stable for 106 days now with a maximum rate of 80Meg down and 20Meg up with G.INP enabled with lower interleaved on downstream bearer 1 below:

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 27871 Kbps, Downstream rate = 83731 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 80000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.8 14.9
Attn(dB): 11.6 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.5 0.0
INP: 49.00 0
G.INP: Enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status: 5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)

Bearer 1
INP: 4.00 0.00
INPRein: 4.00 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 95.62 0.01
AgR: 95.62 0.01

Edited by adslmax (Sat 12-Jan-19 01:21:19)

Delighted with the TP-Link so far

Zero errors since installation, max uptime and great sync

I wanted to ask when I change providers to plusnet from BT next week - do they move me from one VDSL port to another at the local street cab or do they move me at the exchange?

Asking because my brother is just down the road on the same cab and he has a huge difference between max sync and data rate, more errors etc. So I don�t want to be moved onto a noisy port with crosstalk.

Maybe I should stay with BT - can moving providers really mess with the sync that much?

In reply to a post by oldskool:

onto a noisy port with crosstalk.

Um, cross talk is not related to a port in the DSLAM. Cross talk occurs in the cable bundle in the street, where all the signals are very close together.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crosstalk

ok thanks

Is it possible that moving ports with a provider switch can affect sync?

Yes. The ports re individually wired from the DSLAM to the Pcp using tie cables. Any issue with cables or the terminations can cause problems with connectivity. These issues are fairly common across the thousands of cabinets all over the country.

In reply to a post by oldskool:

ok thanks

Is it possible that moving ports with a provider switch can affect sync?

Moving ports can affect sync yes.
Your port usually isn't changed when migrating though.

Unless OpenReach sent an engineer to my cabinet at midnight the last couple times I migrated, the most recent being October 2018.

It's all done remotely by remapping the port to the new ISP.

In reply to a post by oldskool:

ok thanks
Is it possible that moving ports with a provider switch can affect sync?

Yes but if you are just moving provider (migrating) from an FTTC / VDSL service to a provider also with an FTTC / VDSL service, then there is no need for Openreach to move your port in the street cabinet.

That said when I've moved I've had the DLM reset - so lost G.INP for a week or so

I also had a full reset when I moved, which helped me then gain some sync speed.

AIUI it is a change of Openreach product during migration that causes a DLM reset. I forget whether or not it also occurs on a change of underlying provider, i.e. BT Wholesale, Sky, TT etc., but have the feeling it does.

I would imagine it does - probably any new request to Openreach - I went from resold Vodafone to native Vodafone and had a DLM reset (I only really needed to change PPoE creds) - which for me was a shame as my line is very stable and was on a very low SNR (1.8) with very few errors. G.INP came back after a few days, but still waiting a few months later to reduce from an SNR of 6

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

AIUI it is a change of Openreach product during migration that causes a DLM reset. I forget whether or not it also occurs on a change of underlying provider, i.e. BT Wholesale, Sky, TT etc., but have the feeling it does.

Well in my experience it doesn't always, I migrated to Zen from PN no loss of sync just PPPoE as you would expect, But that migration was like for like both BT wbmc , If There is a difference such as WBMC to GEA or vice versa it results in a reset, Same i think will apply if the gaining provider uses a different stability profile than the losing provider uses

My son's has an uptime of 330 days looking today !

I've just changed my 9 year old Openreach modem for a 9970.

I don't know what I was syncing at before of course, but download speeds were 36-37 ish

I thought I was on a capped 40 Meg service, but this shows max attainable and sync speed to be 47 megs, and I now get speedtest results of 42 ish

I think you have a good point about the possibly differing stability profiles tommy . But your point about WBMC v GEA is in effect what I said about underlying providers. All UK FTTC is GEA, (as incidentally is FTTP), but some ISPs use different wholesalers.

GEA is Openreach's implementation of the Ofcom VULA requirements.

ok then i'm all set for the switch to PN.

I did find it very strange that my brother who is much closer to the cab has a max attainable rate of 71Mbps but sync's at 58Mbps.

Has has a new filtered faceplate plugged into the master socket.

I'm much further away on my old faceplate (but i cleaned up the wiring and removed the extensions). I have a max rate of 56Mbps and i sync at 55Mbps (Infinity 1 cap).

Anyway, i will trust this will hopefully remain unaffected.

0 errors reported on the TP-Link 9970

I assume a 3db profile is only possible on a G.INP enabled cab? Which mine is not, being an ECI cab.

If the SNRM is 6dB then it's likely your brothers line is simply interleaved.
Interleaving/INP has a side effect of the max attainable being exaggerated.

If the (downstream) SNRM is around 9-10dB (rough calculation) then your brothers line is banded/capped by the DLM.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

If the SNRM is 6dB then it's likely your brothers line is simply interleaved.
Interleaving/INP has a side effect of the max attainable being exaggerated.

If the (downstream) SNRM is around 9-10dB (rough calculation) then your brothers line is banded/capped by the DLM.

Thank you

I saw he was on fast path as it was a line item in the BT smart hub interface. Must be DLM for him then.

I must have a much cleaner line, hopefully that won't change with the move to plusnet.

Do you know if DLM allows a 3dB SNRM on a clean line that is on a ECI cab?

My HH5 rebooted itself every 4-10 days (apparently its a thing with them) but the TP-Link is solid.

In reply to a post by oldskool:

Do you know if DLM allows a 3dB SNRM on a clean line that is on a ECI cab?

It doesn't, no.

This is due to ReTx/G.INP not working on ECI cabinets at the moment.

My suspicion is that when SRA is rolled out they may allow 3dB SNRM targets on ECI kit.

It's looking like they have given up completely on G.INP on ECI cabinets.

Bt to plusnet happened today

Seems I gained a fair bit in max connect rate, not sure why, but having said that my actual connect speed is lower than my 55Mbps on bt

Ps I�m getting an Authenticaton error as my account is not yet activated but I am connected and synced

Plusnet
Current Rate (Kbps) 15042 51963
Max Rate (Kbps) 15111 63001
SNR Margin (dB) 6.1 6.3
Line Attenuation (dB) 29.7 13.3
Errors (Pkts) 0 0

BT
Current Rate (Kbps) 9995 54998
Max Rate (Kbps) 15321 56475
SNR Margin (dB) 9.4 6.5
Line Attenuation (dB) 29.8 13.3

Hopefully with my stable line I will get up to my max connect rate. That would be worth the switch considering I�ve been at 50Mbps for so long

Edited by oldskool (Tue 22-Jan-19 08:42:35)

The DLM is reset when you migrate.

You are now interleaved which artificially exaggerates the attainable on FTTC.

If the line remains stable it will return to as it was.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

The DLM is reset when you migrate.

You are now interleaved which artificially exaggerates the attainable on FTTC.

If the line remains stable it will return to as it was.

Thanks that makes sense now.

I remembered being interleaved on BT and my pings went up but my max rate stayed the same around 55Mbps but my actual sync dropped to around 47Mbps. Not sure why it's different this time but hopefully all things being equal I'll not loose any speed on PN.

Thank you