Technical Discussion
  >> DSL Hardware Discussion


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User RichTea23
(regular) Wed 25-Nov-20 16:40:57
Print Post

DSl Termination point


[link to this post]
 
Hi All, Not sure of the best place to put this post but its kind of hardware related.

I have just moved in to a new house, the property has a BT Termination box but its missing the face plate and is in a bit of a mess (painted over and filthy) i got my new internet service woring but only by being plugged into the "test port".

I called my ISP to ask about this and they tell me that BT would charge £150 and would only replace the missing face plate and not update replace the whole box. They suggested that I just buy a full box and replace it.

Who actually own the Termination box is it BT or "me"?

Thanks in advance
Rich.

Various (Dile up) -> clara.net (Dile up) -> TELE2 (Microwave) -> ZeN (ADSL) -> ZeN (vDSL)
Standard User j0hn83
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 25-Nov-20 20:48:23
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: RichTea23] [link to this post]
 
OpenReach own it (not BT).

They would indeed charge to replace it.
They no longer supply filtered faceplates unless your ISP orders a managed installation when you 1st ordered FTTC.

You're supposed to use the dangly filter that comes with the ISP modem/hub if no faceplate is present.

If you don't use any of the extensions in the house you could just disconnect all of the extension wiring from the rear of the master socket.

Technically you're not supposed to touch anything before the master socket or the main part of the master socket.
You're allowed to remove the lower faceplate to access the test socket.
It's not a big deal tinkering with the socket or moving it to a more suitable location.

The newest master sockets are the "NTE5C" but I'm really not a fan of them.
If you're buying a new one I'd recommend an NTE5A with an MK3 filtered faceplates.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Wed 25-Nov-20 21:36:46
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by j0hn83:
The newest master sockets are the "NTE5C" but I'm really not a fan of them.
If you're buying a new one I'd recommend an NTE5A with an MK3 filtered faceplates.


I couldn't agree more: a NTE5 + MK3 filtered plate + front Lower NTE5A plate is slightly bulky with the "interstitial" arrangement but definitely better than the poorly designed NTE5C + Mk4 filtered plate.


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User MHC
(sensei) Wed 25-Nov-20 22:22:31
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Could be a point of discussion. If he has just moved in and the installation is not complete then there is good reason to ask BT/OR to rectify that. And the sooner that is requested the better.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 26-Nov-20 00:42:13
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
One has to ask why is the Mk3 better? Is it from an aesthetic point of view or fitting. I know the Mk4 easily falls off but what about function of the filter, is the Mk3 a better filter than the Mk4?

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 26-Nov-20 00:51:09
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
Could be a point of discussion. If he has just moved in and the installation is not complete then there is good reason to ask BT/OR to rectify that. And the sooner that is requested the better.
The OP implies the ISP is not BT, and is meaning Openreach when quoting them BT.

It is up to the ISP to get this new connection sorted. (I get the feeling that the house is not a new-build, just "their new" residence). The ordered service has not been provided.

Your point about the sooner the better is very relevant.

__________________________________________________________
Sovereignty Means Sovereignty

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 26-Nov-20 00:54:34
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Banger:
One has to ask why is the Mk3 better? Is it from an aesthetic point of view or fitting. I know the Mk4 easily falls off but what about function of the filter, is the Mk3 a better filter than the Mk4?
AIUI there is nothing bad about the Mk3 filtered faceplate either. Where "interstitial" comes into it I don't get. The interstitial plate was different again.

And by repute on these forums the Mk3 filter was better than the Mk4. Unfortunately Openreach are unlikely to fit that assembly. even on request.

__________________________________________________________
Sovereignty Means Sovereignty

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 26-Nov-20 00:56:15)

Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 26-Nov-20 01:33:58
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
And by repute on these forums the Mk3 filter was better than the Mk4. Unfortunately Openreach are unlikely to fit that assembly. even on request.


Yes but why are they better? My Mk3 was removed by OR and replaced with Mk4 last time an engineer was in my house.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 26-Nov-20 04:42:17
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
AIUI there is nothing bad about the Mk3 filtered faceplate either. Where "interstitial" comes into it I don't get. The interstitial plate was different again.


https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/technical/4462049-... - referred to as the "interstitial part (MK3)" as in being sandwiched, indeed not to be confused with an I-Plate smile
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 26-Nov-20 05:35:29
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Banger:
One has to ask why is the Mk3 better? Is it from an aesthetic point of view or fitting. I know the Mk4 easily falls off but what about function of the filter, is the Mk3 a better filter than the Mk4?


Beside the issues with the faceplate's inadequate fixture my main concern is with the construction of the circuitry within the NTE5C itself, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD67a-ZC7VY The MK4 plate is in all likely-hood OK since the board looks fine and appears to be adequately soldered.

Edited by 4M2 (Thu 26-Nov-20 05:59:22)

Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 26-Nov-20 09:19:28
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Watching that video on the tear down of the Mk4 he says the out of service resistor is the bellwire filter, wrong. And a link (zero resistance) marked with a black band is the out of service resistor, wrong. Admittedly it doesn't appear to be soldered but the video conclusions don't give you much confidence.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
Standard User danielhyde
(member) Thu 26-Nov-20 11:40:49
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Banger:
Watching that video on the tear down of the Mk4 he says the out of service resistor is the bellwire filter, wrong. And a link (zero resistance) marked with a black band is the out of service resistor, wrong. Admittedly it doesn't appear to be soldered but the video conclusions don't give you much confidence.


You're right, I've had one apart they are not soldered at all
Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Thu 26-Nov-20 12:13:43
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
AIUI there is nothing bad about the Mk3 filtered faceplate either. Where "interstitial" comes into it I don't get. The interstitial plate was different again.
https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/technical/4462049-... - referred to as the "interstitial part (MK3)" as in being sandwiched, indeed not to be confused with an I-Plate smile
I have grave doubts about the whole conversation in that thread. wink

__________________________________________________________
Sovereignty Means Sovereignty

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, sites and mail hosting - Tsohost & Ionos.
Connections: OnePlus 8 Pro max 165Mbps down, 24Mbps up on Three, and B311 4G, tbb tests normally 35-45Mpbs down, 65Mbps off-peak, 9-24 up.
========================
Experience shows us that love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking together in the same direction.
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 26-Nov-20 19:56:38
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: Banger] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Banger:
Watching that video on the tear down of the Mk4 he says the out of service resistor is the bellwire filter, wrong. And a link (zero resistance) marked with a black band is the out of service resistor, wrong.


Are you sure? With continued examination of the NTE5C he appeared to correctly identify the components, i.e. the bell wire filter and the out of service resistor seem to be inserted across the relevant metallic tracks.
Standard User Banger
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 26-Nov-20 19:59:03
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
I was a PCB assembler I know the difference between a link and a resistor and those identified in the video are not what he says they are.

Tim
talktalkbusiness.net & freenetname
TTB Router, Asus RT-AC68U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80/20 Meg Fibre
Speed Test

Highest Sync: 79993/19661

BQM
Standard User RichTea23
(regular) Thu 26-Nov-20 23:56:14
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: j0hn83] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for all the info, I very much did mean to type "BT OpenReach" and not just BT!

My ISP connected my new to me but old house service as we have electricians / plasterers it was over a week before I went to add my router and noted the state of the BTOR termination point its a shame as its OR that provide it you would think they would be responsible for the quality of it (at least for new services) how can they provide a good service else wise i guess thats one of the advantages of a monopoly.

I guess ill just have to source and fit my own box, does any one have recommendation for a suppler?

Various (Dile up) -> clara.net (Dile up) -> TELE2 (Microwave) -> ZeN (ADSL) -> ZeN (vDSL)
Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 27-Nov-20 00:31:32
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: RichTea23] [link to this post]
 
The supplier I always use when changing master sockets

ahem...

...If I ever changed master sockets (which of course I don't, because I'm not allowed to) the supplier I would use would be https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 27-Nov-20 01:43:08
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
Mk3 plates are quite hard to come by these days and getting fairly expensive https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/adsl-vdsl-faceplates... one may fit on the OP's NTE5 but of course he would still need the lower NTE5A front plate (for the phone) and two long machine or long self tapping screws to hold it all together.

Genuine OR NTE5C's + MK4 plates seem fairly plentiful and relatively inexpensive on ebay and amazon these days. However perhaps in the OP's case, if voice extensions are not required, one could stick with a micro filter in the test socket, assuming it's not unsightly, for the time being...

Edited by 4M2 (Fri 27-Nov-20 02:01:24)

Standard User RichTea23
(regular) Fri 27-Nov-20 17:01:19
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
Excellent that you, well I deficiently didn't order a new box, just the plug in face plate.

Any suggestions for cabling extending for the "VDSL" bit to a nice useful location (instead of the silly old middle of hallway) like my comm's room, I have some Cat 5e or Cat 6a (solid core).
Would the 6a with a rj45 at one end and the other end into the Mk3 face plate be the way to go?

Various (Dile up) -> clara.net (Dile up) -> TELE2 (Microwave) -> ZeN (ADSL) -> ZeN (vDSL)
Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 27-Nov-20 17:36:56
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: RichTea23] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RichTea23:
Excellent that you, well I deficiently didn't order a new box, just the plug in face plate.

Any suggestions for cabling extending for the "VDSL" bit to a nice useful location (instead of the silly old middle of hallway) like my comm's room, I have some Cat 5e or Cat 6a (solid core).
Would the 6a with a rj45 at one end and the other end into the Mk3 face plate be the way to go?
The other way round. The 8 position RJ45 plug goes into the Mk3 face plate and the 6 position RJ11 goes into your router. Alternatively you can run unterminated Cat5 or Cat6 from the terminals on the back of the Mk3 to another socket next to the router.

Run-IT-direct supplies white Cat5e cable by the metre if you wanted the cable to be less obtrusive on a white skirting board and you'd then just need a secondary telephone socket like this; https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/bt-line-boxes-and-so... or even an RJ45 socket in the comms room.

You would need to do some wiring on this at each end which requires a tool; https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/tools/IDCtool/

It all depends whether you want a permanent extension or are happy to trail a wire. Take your pick and good luck smile

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 27-Nov-20 17:43:36
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
AIUI there is nothing bad about the Mk3 filtered faceplate either. Where "interstitial" comes into it I don't get. The interstitial plate was different again.
The Mk3 is also an interstitial filter because it goes in the interstice between the NTE5a and the faceplate.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 27-Nov-20 18:03:05
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: RichTea23] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RichTea23:
Excellent that you, well I deficiently didn't order a new box, just the plug in face plate.


Just to add: be sure to check if your existing NTE5 needs machine screws for securing both the MK3 plate and lower front NTE5A faceplate (i.e. female threaded brass inserts in the body of the NTE5) rather than just molded unthreaded plastic holes for self tapping screws in the newer NTE5's. If self tapping screws are used inappropriately and forced in they can damage the older NTE5 brass threads which could be be difficult to repair.
Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 27-Nov-20 18:21:41
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
I seem to remember that the Mk3 plate comes with long machine and self tapping screws to suit either backbox so a good point to check which is needed.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs

Edited by caffn8me (Fri 27-Nov-20 18:22:31)

Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Fri 27-Nov-20 18:39:56
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by caffn8me:
I seem to remember that the Mk3 plate comes with long machine and self tapping screws to suit either backbox so a good point to check which is needed.


Yes on occasions I have had to re-tap the brass threads after self tappers were used inappropriately, would not screw in completely and damaged the threads before being able to use the correct machine screws.
Standard User RichTea23
(regular) Wed 02-Dec-20 21:55:44
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
Thanks both, I got and fitted my new (totals just) Mk3 face plate today =)

Various (Dile up) -> clara.net (Dile up) -> TELE2 (Microwave) -> ZeN (ADSL) -> ZeN (vDSL)
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Wed 02-Dec-20 23:58:54
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: RichTea23] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RichTea23:
Any suggestions for cabling extending for the "VDSL" bit to a nice useful location (instead of the silly old middle of hallway) like my comm's room, I have some Cat 5e or Cat 6a (solid core).
Would the 6a with a rj45 at one end and the other end into the Mk3 face plate be the way to go?


If you are using solid core 100% copper cat5e cable for the "data extension" you may find it better to hard wire from the A&B terminals on the Mk3 plate to a dedicated rj11 socket in your "comm's room". A rj11 plug on the modem/router end of the cable would also be OK but generally speaking a flexible stranded DSL cable from a dedicated rj11 socket to the modem/router could be more suitable depending upon the situation.

Good luck.

Edited by 4M2 (Thu 03-Dec-20 00:05:53)

Standard User RichTea23
(regular) Thu 03-Dec-20 09:51:53
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
If you are using solid core 100% copper cat5e cable for the "data extension" you may find it better to hard wire from the A&B terminals on the Mk3 plate to a dedicated rj11 socket in your "comm's room". A rj11 plug on the modem/router end of the cable would also be OK but generally speaking a flexible stranded DSL cable from a dedicated rj11 socket to the modem/router could be more suitable depending upon the situation.

Good luck.


I have indeed used solid core 100% copper cat5e cable and the A&B terminals from the Mk3 Face plate.
At the moment its just terminated in an RJ45 as that's what my Modem (Fritz! Box7360 V2) uses for the wan port.
I like the idea of an RJ11 socket though as its more future compatible, ill have a look for one.

Thanks again

Various (Dile up) -> clara.net (Dile up) -> TELE2 (Microwave) -> ZeN (ADSL) -> ZeN (vDSL)
Standard User caffn8me
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 03-Dec-20 20:03:29
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: RichTea23] [link to this post]
 
If you have an RJ45 socket there's really no need to 'upgrade' to RJ11 because you can insert an RJ11 plug into it anyway.

Sarah

--
If I can't drink my bowl of coffee three times daily, then in my torment, I will shrivel up like a piece of roast goat

Spiders on coffee - Badass spiders on drugs
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 03-Dec-20 20:45:29
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: RichTea23] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RichTea23:
I have indeed used solid core 100% copper cat5e cable and the A&B terminals from the Mk3 Face plate.
At the moment its just terminated in an RJ45 as that's what my Modem (Fritz! Box7360 V2) uses for the wan port.
I like the idea of an RJ11 socket though as its more future compatible, ill have a look for one.


Actually a rj45 socket would also be OK but if one used a DSL lead with standard rj11 plugs this could result in a lose of continued conductivity even if the plug is only slightly disturbed within the socket. Hard wiring to the A&B terminals on the Mk3 plate and a hard wired connection to a rj11 socket plus a rj11 plug on a DSL lead should provide a very sound connection almost equivalent to a rj45 plug directly on the modem/router end of the cat5e cable which you are using.
Standard User 4M2
(knowledge is power) Thu 03-Dec-20 21:05:30
Print Post

Re: DSl Termination point


[re: caffn8me] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by caffn8me:
If you have an RJ45 socket there's really no need to 'upgrade' to RJ11 because you can insert an RJ11 plug into it anyway.


Perhaps the only rj45 socket that is relevant here is the one on the Mk3 plate which the OP is not using?
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to