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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Tue 18-Oct-11 12:22:15
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Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[link to this post]
 
Is it normal that Enta is trying to get £24+VAT from me to migrate to an LLU provider?

It's not a true cease so why should I be charged?

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Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Tue 18-Oct-11 13:00:36
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
Have a read of the previous thread below - the answer seems to change a bit...
Looks like it depends on how the migration was managed/requested.

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/entanet/3711174-ent...

Who's your reseller and what is their view?

Edited by b4dger (Tue 18-Oct-11 13:09:15)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 18-Oct-11 13:19:33
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
Which provider have you moved to? Some do not use the correct "published migration process", as in the Openreach quote by Kitz in this post, from the thread already linked to in the previous reply.

There is normally no charge for a migration to LLU, either full or partial. I think I have seen this raised more recently than that thread, and IIRC it was because the charge is automatically raised on the Enta system, and should later be automatically cancelled. I wonder if it could be that your Enta reseller has passed on the charge before that cancellation occurred.

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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Tue 18-Oct-11 13:40:20
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Moving to Xilo.

They do the migration as per the guidelines using the new BT system.

The latest response from Enta is that:

I can confirm we would always advise customers to request the MAC code
and pass this onto the gaining ISP which is then designed to cover
yourself. The migration type that is non-chargeable is "Migration of DSL
to SMPF".


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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Tue 18-Oct-11 14:03:22
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: b4dger] [link to this post]
 
I've done my research and found pretty concrete evidence that a cease charge SHOULD NOT be raised:

According to BT's own CP Migrations and Cease Type https://www.btwholesale.com/pages/downloads/Footer/H... on page 13, I quote:

"Cease charges will be applied on eCo for the unsolicited cease only if the customer
reference value is PSTN CEASE and WLR3 CEASE."

An LLU migration will raise a Cease (M) LLU XFER P and LLU XFER PSTN CEASED which isn't chargeable.

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Edited by PiKe (Tue 18-Oct-11 14:07:10)

Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 18-Oct-11 16:22:11
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
Very much what we discussed on our own forum.

They may just be treating it as a cease without looking at the extra information. This is wrong and should be dealt with, without charge.

We convert many lines from WLR3/SMPF to MPF without ever having this problem.

Matt

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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Tue 18-Oct-11 16:49:07
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Kitz post is spot on, thanks Roberto, more documentation to back up my cause.

Entanet have gone quiet on the email front.

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Standard User ukfsn
(knowledge is power) Tue 18-Oct-11 17:28:09
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Don't forget that the BT Wholesale documentation states that there is no cease where The End User line has been migrated to another ADSL service provider using the published migration process.

If the OP is migrating to TalkTalk or Sky's full LLU service (ie both phone line and broadband) then the published migration process is not being used so the cease is chargeable.

UK Free Software Network
http://www.ukfsn.org/
ADSL Broadband, Dialup, Hosting, Domains, SSL and more
Standard User burakkucat
(committed) Tue 18-Oct-11 17:57:46
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: ukfsn] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukfsn:
If the OP is migrating to TalkTalk or Sky's full LLU service (ie both phone line and broadband) then the published migration process is not being used so the cease is chargeable.
Which is not the case. Please see above. The pertinent three words are --
Moving to Xilo.


-----------------------------------------------------

100% Linux and, previously, Unix.
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Tue 18-Oct-11 18:06:25
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: ukfsn] [link to this post]
 
There is a published migration process for MPF migrations...

A cease charge will not be raised in the following circumstances:
The End User line has been migrated to another ADSL service provider using the published migration process.
The End User line has been migrated to an LLU operator (either SMPF or MPF) using the published migration process.
When End User service is migrated to another BT Wholesale ADSL service and / or to another Communications Provider (CP) where a MAC code is used.

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Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Tue 18-Oct-11 18:40:59
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: ukfsn] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukfsn:
If the OP is migrating to TalkTalk or Sky's full LLU service (ie both phone line and broadband) then the published migration process is not being used so the cease is chargeable.


And that is wrong. Enta appear to charge anyone this regardless if the process is, or is not followed. There have been other posts from Enta resellers stating that they've disputed that charge and it has been corrected.

A migration without a MAC is still a published migration process (as is one with a MAC), however, a (full) cease and re-provide is not a published migration process and would be charged - which in this case is not being done.

Matt

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Standard User ukfsn
(knowledge is power) Tue 18-Oct-11 23:47:12
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: burakkucat] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by burakkucat:
The pertinent three words are --
Moving to Xilo.


Do Xilo own and operate their own LLU network? My understanding is that they resell access to whichever LLU network(s) their wholesale suppliers provide. Most of us who offer LLU based services have access to the TalkTalk network, in the form of Opal based connections, if we want to offer them.

I mentioned Talktalk (and Sky although I don't think that is relevant in light of them not purchasing service from Sky) because it's a known issue that TalkTalk don't always migrate the connection but rather just take over the phone line without using the published migration process hence giving rise to the charge.

UK Free Software Network
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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 00:12:53
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: ukfsn] [link to this post]
 
Xilo are the ones doing the legwork, not talktalk.

You also seemed to suggest that MPF meant that the published migration procedure could not be followed, which simply isn't the case as the two BTW documents show, Entanet and their silence on the issue (once I presented them with the evidence) shows they're simply trying to make a quick buck.,

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Standard User ukfsn
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 08:31:23
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PiKe:
Xilo are the ones doing the legwork, not talktalk.

You also seemed to suggest that MPF meant that the published migration procedure could not be followed, which simply isn't the case as the two BTW documents show, Entanet and their silence on the issue (once I presented them with the evidence) shows they're simply trying to make a quick buck.,


I'm not sure what you mean by "doing the legwork". It seems to me to be an irrelevant comment. What matters is which network and whether or not the proper migration procedure has been used or not. What I have stated clearly is that if the network is TalkTalk then the published migration procedure is not always used. The reseller has no control over this.

I didn't say the procedure could not be followed only that it often is not.

UK Free Software Network
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ADSL Broadband, Dialup, Hosting, Domains, SSL and more
Standard User storeman26
(newbie) Wed 19-Oct-11 09:03:39
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: ukfsn] [link to this post]
 
I was charged this cease fee when
i migrated from ukfsn to
titanadsl with my phone and broadband
full llu.
i was told i did not need a mac code.
i paid this at £1.00 a week through
a debt collector to be stubborn.
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 09:13:27
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: ukfsn] [link to this post]
 
In my communications with Entanet they have not even indicated that non-chargable MPF is possible, they have stated that "The migration type that is non-chargeable is "Migration of DSL to SMPF"." which is wrong.

You'd think they of all people would know what is and isn't possible and it shouldn't be up to me to go trawling the BTW documentation to correctly inform them?

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Edited by PiKe (Wed 19-Oct-11 09:13:52)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 19-Oct-11 09:49:17
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PiKe:
In my communications with Entanet they have not even indicated that non-chargable MPF is possible, they have stated that "The migration type that is non-chargeable is "Migration of DSL to SMPF"." which is wrong.

You'd think they of all people would know what is and isn't possible and it shouldn't be up to me to go trawling the BTW documentation to correctly inform them?
Especially when they have got it wrong several times in the past and had to correct the customers' accounts.

There is a slight possibility though that they did not receive a notification from OR that a non-chargeable migration had occurred, as these notifications frequently fail. In which case they could genuinely, but mistakenly, believe there is a charge.

The OR system on such migrations is that on receipt of the LLU migration order from the new ISP, their internal processs raises a Cease order for the existing broadband, which is immediately notified to the existing ISP, and a Provide order for the new connection. It is that Cease order that causes the problem, as Enta automatically invoice the customer for it.

You may have had a phone call at some time from your phone provider, saying they are sorry you are leaving, and can they persuade you to stay? Same process. They received notification that their phone service to you was being terminated.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 09:59:26
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
There is a slight possibility though that they did not receive a notification from OR that a non-chargeable migration had occurred, as these notifications frequently fail. In which case they could genuinely, but mistakenly, believe there is a charge.
This would be an understandable mistake but they're just flat out denying that this is even possible at the moment confused

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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 19-Oct-11 10:06:25
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
I just re-read the thread and spotted you had already given the OT Cease order process.

Which reseller did you leave? I would have though it was their responsibility to get this corrected. Some have certainly done so, but one, that has posted in this thread, seems to be under a misconception. So perhaps others are as well.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User aquiss
(experienced) Wed 19-Oct-11 10:07:14
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
This is slightly odd. Who are you dealing with exactly?

I would recommend asking for a full copy of the Install Reports. This should reveal the exact Cease type.

Martin Pitt
Aquiss Internet
http://www.aquiss.net

Home Broadband Packages : http://www.aquiss.net/home-broadband.php
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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 10:07:23
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Unfortunately ukfsn is my reseller.

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Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 19-Oct-11 11:36:42
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
If you're getting no joy with them, get in touch with us. We're happy to cancel the order, move you over to an IP stream service and then migrate you to the MPF product. It'll delay things a little but at least there won't be any confusion over charges.

Dealing with Enta or the reseller shouldn't be an uphill struggle and if there is anything we can do to help you avoid that - let us know.

Matt

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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 11:59:09
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Entanet are really taking the [censored] now.

They replied and basically didn't read the right sections and denied that the section I copy and pasted from the document even existed.

I've now threatened them with ofcom if they don't buck up.

I used to think Entanet were the bees, I've been with them for 5 years, but jesus christ they're incompetent.

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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 19-Oct-11 12:04:04
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
And Jason thinks they're right frown. Uno's suggestion looks a good idea. (You do know that uno = xilo?)

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 12:09:19
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Yup smile

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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 12:28:26
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Thing is there shouldn't be any confusion, it's all there in black and white in the BT Wholesale documents, just seems like they can't be bothered to look into it properly, they can't even look at the right documents when I'm referencing sections and just conclude that I'm wrong.

They're idiots plain and simple, and I'm not prepared to cause more work for yourselves just because they're incompetent.

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Edited by PiKe (Wed 19-Oct-11 12:30:31)

Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 12:47:53
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
And another [censored] reply:

Please be advised that under the reasons for "A cease charge will not be
raised in the following circumstances:" they all refer to the process of
migration or MAC code. As previously stated, the phrase of Cease (M) LLU
XFER P and LLU XFER PSTN CEASED shows no reference to migration thus
meaning that there will be a charge for the transfer of the connection.
Please note that the PDF document has not been attached.


Again I've emailed them back with a link to the PDF and asking for an explanation as to why if I'm wrong, Matt is wrong and BT's documentation is wrong, why they have refunded cease charges in the past.

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Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 19-Oct-11 13:01:33
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
It's ok - we don't mind.

Hopefully your persistence will make them realise that they're "doing it wrong".

Matt

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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 13:04:00
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
I wonder how many customers haven't disputed the charge.

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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 13:58:14
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Email now drafted to CISAS with my finger poised over the send button...

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Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 19-Oct-11 13:59:47
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
They may not be able to help as you've not followed the process (I assume).

You can apply to use CISAS if:
you have not been able to settle your complaint within eight weeks of first complaining to the company; or
the company has referred you to the scheme.


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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 14:00:29
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Eight weeks?!

Well, it's saved so I won't have to type it again laugh

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Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 19-Oct-11 14:01:22
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
You have to give them a reasonable chance to resolve it.

If only it was 8 hours, eh wink

Matt

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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 14:02:39
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
Still can't understand how they can say there's a charge when it's plain as day in the Section44 document:
A cease charge will not be raised in the following circumstances:
The End User line has been migrated to another ADSL service provider using the published migration process.
The End User line has been migrated to an LLU operator (either SMPF or MPF) using the published migration process.
When End User service is migrated to another BT Wholesale ADSL service and / or to another Communications Provider (CP) where a MAC code is used.
What more do they want?!

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Edited by PiKe (Wed 19-Oct-11 14:03:53)

Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 19-Oct-11 14:04:10
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
Your £25, clearly wink

Matt

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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 14:16:17
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
I phoned them, spoke to a chap called Ben and he read my case notes and confirmed there's no charge as long as the gaining ISP raises a Cease(M). He is emailing me confirmation of this.

THIS IS ALL I WAS AFTER!

Entanet, please educate your customer service people.

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Edited by PiKe (Wed 19-Oct-11 14:17:09)

Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 14:48:15
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
Right the email confirmation states something different now, stating that Cease (L) is free but Cease (M) isn't.

Cease(L) is SMPF and Cease(M) is MPF.

BT's Section44_Part3_01-April-11_Asymmetric_v2 document states that both MPF and SMPF aren't chargable so logic says both Cease (L) and (M) aren't chargeable either!

Back to the drawing board.

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Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 19-Oct-11 14:50:40
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
They are wrong, again.

Cease charges will be applied on eCo for the unsolicited cease only if the customer reference value is PSTN CEASE and WLR3 CEASE


Cease (L) is for ones with a MAC - all SMPF products
ADSL2SMPF SMPF4ADSL ADSL2SMPF# SMPF4ADSL# IDMLLU IP2WBC IP2WBCCP DS2WBC DS2WBCCP

Cease (M) is for MPF and PSTN transfers - no MAC
LLU XFER P
CeaseSD###
LLU XFER PSTN CEASED

Cease (P) is for end of PSTN without moving elsewhere. i.e moving home.
PSTN CEASE PSTN CEASE PSTN CEASE

They're clearly getting "PSTN CEASE" and "LLU XFER PSTN CEASED" confused simply because the latter has the same wording but is ultimately a different value.

Matt

-
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t: 0808 221 8642
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Edited by uno (Wed 19-Oct-11 14:53:32)

Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 14:53:38
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by uno:
They're clearly getting "PSTN CEASE" and "LLU XFER PSTN CEASED" confused simply because the latter has the same wording but is ultimately a different value.
Precisely! I've pointed this out in my latest email.

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Standard User uno
(fountain of knowledge) Wed 19-Oct-11 14:57:06
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
Note my bolding though...

"PSTN CEASE and WLR3 CEASE"

They'll only be getting the first as part of a longer response, but based on the documentation, are not getting WLR3 CEASE.

I've checked a few that we've put through in the same way and we see the "LLU XFER PSTN CEASED" but not "PSTN CEASE" or "WLR3 CEASE".

Matt

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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 14:58:56
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: uno] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by uno:
Note my bolding though...

"PSTN CEASE and WLR3 CEASE"
I thought that was just bad wording and was meant to mean 'either' because there are no Cease types that include both of those references together.

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Edited by PiKe (Wed 19-Oct-11 15:15:31)

Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 15:45:58
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
Success!

I have passed the documentation over to my manager and they have discussed our
direct billing relationship with BT. BT have confirmed that a cease (M) will
not incur a charge and I have spoken to management to get this information
passed down throughout our team.
I apologise that you have been mis-informed regarding the charges.


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Standard User 4M2
(committed) Wed 19-Oct-11 15:58:09
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
PiKe,

Well done! You obviously got a result through research and perseverance - I must confess I don't understand all the jargon, but do you reckon it's best to get a MAC key from an ISP even though it is apparently unnecessary (?) if switching to full LLU?
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 16:05:10
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
A MAC code won't be used for an LLU migration so there's no real reason to request it.

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Standard User aquiss
(experienced) Wed 19-Oct-11 16:08:55
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
do you reckon it's best to get a MAC key from an ISP


I always recommend getting a MAC Key is good industry practice when moving ISPs. I also believe all ISPs should insist on one regardless (used or not).

The majority of customers will not understand the technical aspect behind broadband or the networks customers are dropped onto, however, for me, a MAC Key is part of contract transfer between providers. Why it's not just made into a standard process does wind me up a little. All customers would then be required to ask, which would help all parties involved and get rid of shocks regarding charges.

Martin Pitt
Aquiss Internet
http://www.aquiss.net

Home Broadband Packages : http://www.aquiss.net/home-broadband.php
Business Broadband Packages : http://www.aquiss.net/business-broadband.php
Aquiss Partner Scheme : http://www.aquiss.net/partners.php

Edited by aquiss (Wed 19-Oct-11 16:09:37)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 19-Oct-11 16:10:13
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: 4M2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by 4M2:
... do you reckon it's best to get a MAC key from an ISP even though it is apparently unnecessary (?) if switching to full LLU?
Essential for two reasons.

First, as per this thread, though we have occasionally heard of ISPs that won't accept it as technically it isn't needed. That's because they can just take the phone line and they don't need a MAC to do that, but it automatically ceases the existing broadband. I think that's when a charge arises. Then they just set up the broadband themselves once they have control.

Second, many ISPs take the date of request or issue of the MAC as the start of the notice period you have to give, if you go through with the migration. So if you haven't asked for one they will either start the notice period from when it happens, or even worse say you still have to give notice so keep charging until you do. That has caused a few heated arguments.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User 4M2
(committed) Wed 19-Oct-11 17:00:22
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Thanks fellas smile

Probably best to request a MAC key for any change of ISP whether it's actually required or not then?

BTW. In my experience requesting a MAC key always results in the current ISP offering a sweet retention deal of some kind even on a rolling monthly arrangement.
Standard User b4dger
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 18:04:50
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PiKe:
A MAC code won't be used for an LLU migration so there's no real reason to request it.

Hmmm... Looks like you may have demonstrated why this could be required! smile

My advice to ANYONE moving ISPs would be to talk to both parties to avoid any problems...

Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Wed 19-Oct-11 18:11:23
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Well I requested my MAC from Jason 2 days ago via the ukfsn portal and so far, I've received nothing, do ISP/Resellers still have 5 working days to supply it?

Edit: just checked portal and its there but it would have been nice to have been emailed with it.

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Edited by PiKe (Wed 19-Oct-11 18:17:34)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 19-Oct-11 22:47:22
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by PiKe:
Well I requested my MAC from Jason 2 days ago via the ukfsn portal and so far, I've received nothing, do ISP/Resellers still have 5 working days to supply it?

Edit: just checked portal and its there but it would have been nice to have been emailed with it.
Re the edit - that is always the case. I think it is fairly standard across the resellers though.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User ukfsn
(knowledge is power) Thu 20-Oct-11 13:49:30
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
I cannot see any email from you to UKFSN about this. If you had bothered to email you would have had my assistance in discussing this with Enta for you. As things stand I don't even know who you actually are so I am unable to check.

That's unfortunate indeed.

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Standard User ukfsn
(knowledge is power) Thu 20-Oct-11 13:51:47
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
If you had read my posts properly you would know that I did not say they are right. I said they may be right depending upon how the LLU network has processed the order.

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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Thu 20-Oct-11 13:52:25
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: ukfsn] [link to this post]
 
You thought it was chargeable...
In reply to a post by ukfsn:
If the OP is migrating to TalkTalk or Sky's full LLU service (ie both phone line and broadband) then the published migration process is not being used so the cease is chargeable.
What would have been the point in stating my argument to you? I'd have to firstly convince you, then you would have to convince Enta.

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Edited by PiKe (Thu 20-Oct-11 13:59:22)

Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Thu 20-Oct-11 13:54:53
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: ukfsn] [link to this post]
 
I've quoted what you put, maybe you should read your own posts properly and drop the attitude?

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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 20-Oct-11 19:23:38
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: ukfsn] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukfsn:
If you had read my posts properly you would know that I did not say they are right. I said they may be right depending upon how the LLU network has processed the order.
Excuse me Jason, but as well as your usual reaction of attacking the complainant, you are now talking absolute garbage about my post. I quote and link to a post you made earlier in reply to me!
Don't forget that the BT Wholesale documentation states that there is no cease where The End User line has been migrated to another ADSL service provider using the published migration process.

If the OP is migrating to TalkTalk or Sky's full LLU service (ie both phone line and broadband) then the published migration process is not being used so the cease is chargeable.
Link to post.

That is your first post in this thread.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 20-Oct-11 19:29:59
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: ukfsn] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by ukfsn:
I cannot see any email from you to UKFSN about this. If you had bothered to email you would have had my assistance in discussing this with Enta for you. As things stand I don't even know who you actually are so I am unable to check.

That's unfortunate indeed.
How many MAC requests did you receive on 17 October?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Fri 04-Nov-11 09:36:24
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
And Enta has charged me after all.

Brilliantly incompetent!

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Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Tue 15-Nov-11 11:05:58
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
The saga continues, credit note issued against the invoice, then they took the amount owed anyway.

What the ****?

Can I report them for sheer incompetence?

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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 15-Nov-11 12:34:20
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
Only to anyone you find thinking of joining them.

Importantly, don't cancel the direct debit until you have the refund! If you do you will probably find they have no way of repaying you. Many ISPs' systems need to do the refund through the same method as the payment.

You should also be refunded any monthly fees from the migration date to where you had paid up to.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 15-Nov-11 12:35:18)

Standard User PiKe
(knowledge is power) Thu 24-Nov-11 13:48:12
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
This is still dragging on, no refund, can't get to talk to anyone in accounts as it just goes to someone's extension mailbox.

Completely unprofessional.

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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 24-Nov-11 14:25:27
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Re: Cease Fees on Migration to LLU


[re: PiKe] [link to this post]
 
Your ex-reseller should be dealing with it for you, as a simple matter of ethics.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - IDNet Home Starter Fibre. Live BQM.

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
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