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Standard User Bob_s2
(learned) Sun 23-Jan-11 15:00:39
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
I dont follow in your linked post as to where it talks about being able to run a deposit scheme for zero cost.

Even an automated system, requires a sys admin and people to write it in the first place, and ongoing verifications that system is still secure.

Handling the issue of people moving, is deposit refunded, or just non-refundable
So you are saying users should pay the deposit, (of whatever value as per the rest of the thread), direct to Openreach, and once the user takes FTTC Openreach refund it directly to them?

That requires a few thousand quid of systems investment and some full-time staff to run it. Eating considerably into the cash.
There is also the un-asked so far question, though it has been hinted at, as to how long depositors may have to wait for enablement, and seeing as a trigger number has to be reached that could be a very long time, never mind the period from the trigger being reached to the go-live.

Would interest be paid on the deposit? It could be a couple of years or so with no news whatsoever about what is going on.

On should the systems regularly inform depositors of the position re both the exchange and their particular cabinet? A few more thousand quid development cost.


BT have already done something similr in the past with regard to trigger levels. Certainly have a trigger level for an exchange or cabinet would increase demand and would encourage local campaigns to get more people to take part. Possibly the scheme runs for say a maximum of 18 months. If the trigger level is not reached the deposit is refunded. To keep costs low I would suggest that the money is just deducted from the next BT bill. I would suggest that no interest is paid. Current rates are tiny in any case and on something like £30 to £100 would be pretty insignificant
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 23-Jan-11 15:07:56
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: Bob_s2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Bob_s2:
The cost should be pretty low. BT already having billing systems in place.
I don't think BT Openreach have a billing system for end users.
The admin cost odd a one off payment system would be insignificant particularly if done electronically rather then paper based.
Have you ever written a small or amended a large computerised accounting system? Or linked a small one to a large one?
The real benefit though is it shows real commiment by customers to take the service and that linked to say an intial 12 month minimum contract period means BT would be able to recover the start up costs quite quickly.
It seems you still haven't accepted that the divisions between BT Retail, Wholesale and Openreach are real, and the cash that passes between then does so on a strictly commercial basis. Also as already mentioned, the user may go with one of the myriad other FTTC suppliers (by then), not necessarily BT Broadband.
Possibly the deposit could be non refundable and used by BT towards the initial rollout costs. That though leaves the problem with what you do with customers that join after go live.
Now you are clutching at straws and as a result finding even more problems. Additionally we haven't yet mentioned what happens:

- where if the trigger is, for example, 150 depositors only 140 jump in;
- in the interim period someone moves away;
- in the interim period someone dies.

As I said at the start, in my opinion it just isn't a viable suggestion.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 23-Jan-11 15:22:26
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: Bob_s2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Bob_s2:
To keep costs low I would suggest that the money is just deducted from the next BT bill.
You just don't get it, do you?

There are a huge number of people who do not have BT bills for either broadband or phone.

I've just realised I misunderstood:-
The money would not go back to an ISP but to BT Openreach as they are the ones paying for the infrustructure
I originally read it as the deposit going straight to Openreach from the potential customer. But at that point the problem was how the customer got the refund. So what I now think is the correct reading of what you said just doesn't make sense. Who would collect and hold the deposit, and where would it end up, with Openreach or refunded to the user?

Assuming the company taking and holding the deposits, and keeping tabs on the associated cabinets, (which only Openreach know by the way), does not at any point get broadband revenue from the end user, what administration charge on the fund do you suggest they make for the costs already mentioned several times involved in setting up and running this system?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.


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Standard User Bob_s2
(learned) Sun 23-Jan-11 15:34:13
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by Bob_s2:
To keep costs low I would suggest that the money is just deducted from the next BT bill.
You just don't get it, do you?

There are a huge number of people who do not have BT bills for either broadband or phone.

I've just realised I misunderstood:-
The money would not go back to an ISP but to BT Openreach as they are the ones paying for the infrustructure
I originally read it as the deposit going straight to Openreach from the potential customer. But at that point the problem was how the customer got the refund. So what I now think is the correct reading of what you said just doesn't make sense. Who would collect and hold the deposit, and where would it end up, with Openreach or refunded to the user?

Assuming the company taking and holding the deposits, and keeping tabs on the associated cabinets, (which only Openreach know by the way), does not at any point get broadband revenue from the end user, what administration charge on the fund do you suggest they make for the costs already mentioned several times involved in setting up and running this system?


It is nowhere near as complicated as you make out. Many of the transaction you suggest already take place now as part of the normal billing process.

If people do not have a BT line they wwould not be able to take part basically that rules out cable customers who are not likely to use FTTC in any case and those that have only mobiles or no phone at all.

Everyone else will be using an openreach line. BT Retail or the phone company or ISP ie whever the subscriber pays the line rental to would collect the Deposit and pass it on to BT Openreach. It no different to what they do with the line rental
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 23-Jan-11 15:40:15
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: Bob_s2] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Bob_s2:
Everyone else will be using an openreach line. BT Retail or the phone company or ISP ie whever the subscriber pays the line rental to would collect the Deposit and pass it on to BT Openreach. It no different to what they do with the line rental
At last smile.

So this is all at a negligible cost and inconvenience to all the phone SPs and ISPs involved, and Openreach can easily accommodate these extra transactions and the admin?

BT Wholesale would need to become involved, as they provide the MSAN at the (relevant) exchange and the backhaul from it.

(Edit - typo).

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 23-Jan-11 15:43:42)

Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 23-Jan-11 15:41:36
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
http://www.relay-rutlandtelecom.co.uk/essendine/inde...

such a scheme in action via a competing provider.

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User Bob_s2
(learned) Sun 23-Jan-11 15:45:56
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
In reply to a post by Bob_s2:
Everyone else will be using an openreach line. BT Retail or the phone company or ISP ie whever the subscriber pays the line rental to would collect the Deposit and pass it on to BT Openreach. It no different to what they do with the line rental
At last smile.

So this is all at a negligible cost and inconvenience to all the phone SPs and ISPs involved, and Openreach can easily accommodate these extra transactions and the admin?

BT Wholesale would need to become involved, as they provide the MSAN at the (relevant) exchange and the backhaul from it.

(Edit - typo).


All these things have to go on with the rollout in any case. What does is give BT a pretty much guaranteed demand at the point of going live with it rather then educated guesswork. It also helps with the cash flow as they will have to borrow less money which will also reduce costs
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 23-Jan-11 15:47:05
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Yes, that was linked to earlier.

But here we are talking about a national plan. Not quite the same thing.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Sun 23-Jan-11 15:48:48
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
indeed. Reality vs hypothetical.

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Sun 23-Jan-11 16:30:33
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Re: Demand-led Rollout of FTTC


[re: Bob_s2] [link to this post]
 
I pass. I give up. Brick wall.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
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